It's also a good thing he specified "winning" season so no one could accuse him of tanking in the year that they no longer have their own 1st round pick.
What I'm getting from this is Tom rejected the Dolphins twice and cost them draft picks in the process. True Patriot.
LFG. This is entertainment, guys. Allow yourselves to be entertained. Dunk on Stephen Ross, who is a shithead even by the elite standards of NFL owners. Make one of those Chris Berman domino memes where it starts with Bill Belichick "accidentally" texting the wrong Brian, and ends with his division rival losing a first round pick to the Goodell Punishment Vortex. Post the BB Orange Juice JPG while noting that Florida's state crop is extra tangy this year.Imagine losing a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick to not get Tom Brady.
i heard this in jan 2022 i think it did happen but when they fired flores and he did that lawsuit miami hands was tied overall as i think brady and Payton was a package deal which is funny to me because brady always wanted to be in sf which in my opinton he shouild be mad at bill walsh not anyone else but back to 2022 even if he went to miami their off wouild had been worse because they added a lot on off that with brady they wouild not been able to add most noteaby Armsteam edmodms williams t hill@j-man always has excellent conspiracy theories, I am really hoping you have a take on this!
Terrible value when you consider he only cost a 6th in the first place.Imagine losing a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick to not get Tom Brady.
Tom and Bill Parcells have more in common than I thought.I love Tom Brady and 6 Lombardis buys you a lot of leeway in my book, but man I’ll never understand how he could have possibly been that bitter and disillusioned during his last season in New England. And the fucking Dolphins of all teams. Fuck. Short of him pulling some Deshaun Watson stuff this is about as close as I can get at being angry at him. I am fully supportive of his decision to leave the Pats and sign wherever the fuck he wanted, he earned that right. But talking to a hated divisional rival while still under contract with the Pats is . . . I don’t know, it kind of sucks.
Again, this where I am. (Though I am sober now.)As noted upthread I’m somewhere in the middle on this. I’ve been a Brady fanboy for my entire adult life and I had no issues with him leaving but this story is hitting me in a place I didn’t know existed for Brady. It wasn’t like they sucked in 2019. They were defending SB champs and started out 8-0. I can buy that the working relationship had become toxic and that happens, and it is fine and nobody’s fault. But the one thing I’ve always believed about Brady is the single mindedness about winning and this seems to undercut that. I’m not 12 and Tom Brady owes me nothing. But the fact that he couldn’t or wouldn’t instruct his representatives to put the conversations off until the season was over kind of matters to me. Am I ripping the Tom Brady posters off my wall? Of course not. Does it make me re-think the way I think about my favorite athlete ever? A little bit if I am being honest.
I’m also high and drunk so YMMV but man I hate this story.
There were reports that the Commish was very peeved by BB's statement released after Spygate 1, which motivated subsequent NFL discipline vs. the Pats.I am 56, so I know enough not to have heroes. All people, no matter how great they seem, have warts and are not perfect. What I think is interesting here, is that the NFL has evidence of Ross' tampering. I am guessing they got it from either Brady himself or more likely, his agent, Don Yee.
The league clearly does not want evidence of Ross paying Flores to tank. So, I am guessing because it's a he said/she said situation, they decided to tell Ross to knock it off, shut up, take this punishment, and move on. But because these rich assholes think the rules don't apply to them, he put out that statement.
This is outstanding. Well done sir.Terrible value when you consider he only cost a 6th in the first place.
That’s a nice encapsulation of the Patriots vs Dolphins - we used a 6th rounder and got to play Brady for nearly 20 years. The Dolphins used a 1st and a 3rd on him and didn’t even get a snap.
Your last sentence is bingo.I think the struggle I have with this whole Brady thing is how it has made it even clearer that once upon a time, Tom Brady was part of the story of this franchise and now it feels like the Pats were part of his story.
It's silly, but it does kinda hurt because he's not "our guy" anymore, he looms larger than that and he knows it too. I think this sort of tampering happens with every pending free agent every year, so I'm not gonna clutch my pearls over that, and it's absolutely not the same as Parcells talking shop with his next employer during Super Bowl prep week, but it's yet another reminder of the fact that he's become such a big figure in the sport that he felt it was okay to discuss terms with other teams in both his last season here and his second season in Tampa. There's no sense of allegiance at this point because his legacy has become it's own entity, untied to any franchise, and his pursuits now are of the individual accomplishment variety. I get it, he's in a stratosphere by himself, competing only with himself so it's natural to a degree, but at the same time it sucks. I'm willing to bet I won't feel like this in 10 years, though.
This is the key, I think. Tom operates now under the premise that he's the show and wherever he goes, guys will follow and the team will have success as long as there's a good enough base to work with. When you have that mindset, it's impossible to be tied down, you'll always be looking at other opportunities and places that could potentially lead to more wins. He doesn't fear failure at all, it's all about degrees of accomplishment and padding his legacy.Your last sentence is bingo.
With Tampa I get strong vibes that he’s in the midst of an affair in its honeymoon phase, where the team had crystallized a strong core of talent - after Licht muddled along for years - that he walked into and a self-declared short window that informed their personnel and cap management. He gets and does everything he wants - power to him, and Tampa is a nice place to live that doesn’t put him in the pressure cooker like Boston did. Something I haven’t seen discussed very much, if at all, is how favorable the Tampa media coverage is to him/the team. The Tampa ESPN and Athletic coverage, for example, is night and day from what you see in the Boston media market, which seems to be a function of the reporters and fans being grateful to go from a team of little to no consequence to one of the best in the NFL and not hiring a notable cohort of miserable bastards to cover the team. There is no Shaughnessy, Felger, Volin, Tomase, etc. It seems to be a better, healthier sports life for all involved, to be honest, and I couldn’t blame him if he’s not looking to jump back into a city like Boston, NY, etc.
Ultimately, though, he isn’t a Buc. Hell, he was entertaining the next thing during only his second season with the team.
Yup. End of the day, Brady was 43 years-old making these decisions. He did everything he needed to do in NE (and more) so I really don't care how he decides to finish his career now that he's moved on. He's definitely gone Hollywood and is clearly focused on his brand but he's earned that right.Your last sentence is bingo.
With Tampa I get strong vibes that he’s in the midst of an affair in its honeymoon phase, where the team had crystallized a strong core of talent - after Licht muddled along for years - that he walked into and a self-declared short window that informed their personnel and cap management. He gets and does everything he wants - power to him, and Tampa is a nice place to live that doesn’t put him in the pressure cooker like Boston did. Something I haven’t seen discussed very much, if at all, is how favorable the Tampa media coverage is to him/the team. The Tampa ESPN and Athletic coverage, for example, is night and day from what you see in the Boston media market, which seems to be a function of the reporters and fans being grateful to go from a team of little to no consequence to one of the best in the NFL and not hiring a notable cohort of miserable bastards to cover the team. There is no Shaughnessy, Felger, Volin, Tomase, etc. It seems to be a better, healthier sports life for all involved, to be honest, and I couldn’t blame him if he’s not looking to jump back into a city like Boston, NY, etc.
Ultimately, though, he isn’t a Buc. Hell, he was entertaining the next thing during only his second season with the team.
What is interesting though is that when he chose the Bucs, he didn't simply pick the place where he thought he had the best chance to win. Maybe 3 years later he is at that point, but that wasn't a huge criteria in 2019.This is the key, I think. Tom operates now under the premise that he's the show and wherever he goes, guys will follow and the team will have success as long as there's a good enough base to work with. When you have that mindset, it's impossible to be tied down, you'll always be looking at other opportunities and places that could potentially lead to more wins. He doesn't fear failure at all, it's all about degrees of accomplishment and padding his legacy.
I think it was. The defense came on really strong in the second half of 2019 and the Evans/Godwin duo is tough to beat. I think he easily could have looked at that team and thought he could put them over the top, even though there were better options to win immediately like the 9ers (who reportedly didn't want him). If the main teams interested at the time were the Bucs, the Chargers, the Bears and the Dolphins, as I believe they were by what we've read/heard about that process, I'd argue he picked the right spot.What is interesting though is that when he chose the Bucs, he didn't simply pick the place where he thought he had the best chance to win. Maybe 3 years later he is at that point, but that wasn't a huge criteria in 2019.
Right clearly the Bucs were the best spot of those options (another team that seems like they didn't really want him was the Titans). Pretty sure he said on the docuseries that winning wasn't a huge priority, but he may have been blowing smoke.I think it was. The defense came on really strong in the second half of 2019 and the Evans/Godwin duo is tough to beat. I think he easily could have looked at that team and thought he could put them over the top, even though there were better options to win immediately like the 9ers (who reportedly didn't want him). If the main teams interested at the time were the Bucs, the Chargers, the Bears and the Dolphins, as I believe they were by what we've read/heard about that process, I'd argue he picked the right spot.
Everything we know about Tom Brady is that he wants to win. To pretend that winning wasn't his focus seems absurd. That has to be smoke.Right clearly the Bucs were the best spot of those options (another team that seems like they didn't really want him was the Titans). Pretty sure he said on the docuseries that winning wasn't a huge priority, but he may have been blowing smoke.
I think we've all known that Brady is a complicated dude for a while now. His Trump support, Guerrero, concussion water, willingness to overlook Antonio Brown's obviously character flaws to chase another ring, and now this tampering stuff, etc. Like any human, he has his flaws but he obviously was very successful on the field and he represented the Patriots well off of the field and did a good job of giving back to the community. So, he fulfilled any obligations we could possibly have of him (and quite more, obviously).I’ve held off commenting on some of these posts because I’m still kind of reconciling them with the resistance on this forum to entertain the reporting of Florio and the Sun Sentinel guy which explained in great detail how Brady was attempting to force his way to playing/ownership in Miami with Payton by retiring. This wasn’t just smoke. It was flames.
I get that we all love/loved Brady but it’s long been clear that (not very far) underneath his aw shucks demeanor is a guy who can be petty, vindictive and entitled (just watch that last episode of Man in the Arena where he cries about his dad's love for the 4,000th time -- I couldn't get through it).
But a lot of posters seemed to justify turning a blind eye by pointing to how few NFL reporters were covering the story—overlooking what a bunch of shameless access merchants they’ve become—and how logistically complicated it would be for Brady to become an owner while still playing (as if that would prevent him from trying).
At any rate, if we didn’t know it before, Brady is human, no matter how superhuman his feats on the field have seemed. It’s probably healthier for all of us to realize that now.
Honestly, who would do different in his situation. He’s the greatest of all time. He’s given the Patriots everything - including a decade of price breaks. If I was the best ever at something and I could parlay that to more money and status and power by, what, moving on from an organization that’d do the same to me in a second, sign me right the fuck up.I’ve held off commenting on some of these posts because I’m still kind of reconciling them with the resistance on this forum to entertain the reporting of Florio and the Sun Sentinel guy which explained in great detail how Brady was attempting to force his way to playing/ownership in Miami with Payton by retiring. This wasn’t just smoke. It was flames.
I get that we all love/loved Brady but it’s long been clear that (not very far) underneath his aw shucks demeanor is a guy who can be petty, vindictive and entitled (just watch that last episode of Man in the Arena where he cries about his dad's love for the 4,000th time -- I couldn't get through it).
But a lot of posters seemed to justify turning a blind eye by pointing to how few NFL reporters were covering the story—overlooking what a bunch of shameless access merchants they’ve become—and how logistically complicated it would be for Brady to become an owner while still playing (as if that would prevent him from trying).
At any rate, if we didn’t know it before, Brady is human, no matter how superhuman his feats on the field have seemed. It’s probably healthier for all of us to realize that now.
We will never know if he wasn't "made whole" on this deal already or somewhere down the line. He most likely made huge bank with the house carved out of the area next to Kraft's land in Brookline.Honestly, who would do different in his situation. He’s the greatest of all time. He’s given the Patriots everything - including a decade of price breaks. If I was the best ever at something and I could parlay that to more money and status and power by, what, moving on from an organization that’d do the same to me in a second, sign me right the fuck up.
I don’t think it’s fair to judge people for moving the same way I would, just because I don’t have the opportunity. It’s the same with those criticizing golfers for banking $100 mil in Saudi cash. Brady was trying to become the Jay Z/Diddy of the NFL. He deserves it.
Earlier today it dawned on me that Brady waited until he was 43 years old with 20+ seasons as a Patriot to start doing what LeBron has done since he was 25. Kinda puts it in perspective.Honestly, who would do different in his situation. He’s the greatest of all time. He’s given the Patriots everything - including a decade of price breaks. If I was the best ever at something and I could parlay that to more money and status and power by, what, moving on from an organization that’d do the same to me in a second, sign me right the fuck up.
I don’t think it’s fair to judge people for moving the same way I would, just because I don’t have the opportunity. It’s the same with those criticizing golfers for banking $100 mil in Saudi cash. Brady was trying to become the Jay Z/Diddy of the NFL. He deserves it.
Must’ve been a big house! Did anyone ever estimate how much Brady left on the table playing for the Pats? $20 million? $50? $100?We will never know if he wasn't "made whole" on this deal already or somewhere down the line. He most likely made huge bank with the house carved out of the area next to Kraft's land in Brookline.
I'd put it somewhere between $30-50 million.Must’ve been a big house! Did anyone ever estimate how much Brady left on the table playing for the Pats? $20 million? $50? $100?
That's totally fair.Earlier today it dawned on me that Brady waited until he was 43 years old with 20+ seasons as a Patriot to start doing what LeBron has done since he was 25. Kinda puts it in perspective.
I think we've all known that Brady is a complicated dude for a while now. His Trump support, Guerrero, concussion water, willingness to overlook Antonio Brown's obviously character flaws to chase another ring, and now this tampering stuff, etc. Like any human, he has his flaws but he obviously was very successful on the field and he represented the Patriots well off of the field and did a good job of giving back to the community. So, he fulfilled any obligations we could possibly have of him (and quite more, obviously).
I personally find his new persona and social media presence to be kind of dorky and self-serving but, whatever, he can do what he wants. Not everyone can be a natural like Big Papi. Brady is clearly closer to the MJ/Tiger Woods closed-off superstar. But his time in Tampa has demonstrated that he does have a more fun loving persona that his competitive drive and media apprehension doesn't often let out.
Yeah, it's not really about judging Brady's career choices that I'm flagging here -- it was the head-in-the-sand refusal to believe he could possibly make some of those choices. The Brady-retiring-from-TB-to-flee-to-Miami story was out there almost in real time. When the Flores story came to light it came out that Ross and his crony had tampered with Brady on his yacht while under contract with the Patriots. Ultimately, the story was barely given any attention by the NFL media for the same reason the report about Peyton Manning using HGH got almost no attention: because the NFL didn't want it reported. But there was enough reporting on it to know the basic facts of what went down. People just refused to believe it.Honestly, who would do different in his situation. He’s the greatest of all time. He’s given the Patriots everything - including a decade of price breaks. If I was the best ever at something and I could parlay that to more money and status and power by, what, moving on from an organization that’d do the same to me in a second, sign me right the fuck up.
I don’t think it’s fair to judge people for moving the same way I would, just because I don’t have the opportunity. It’s the same with those criticizing golfers for banking $100 mil in Saudi cash. Brady was trying to become the Jay Z/Diddy of the NFL. He deserves it.
Bingo. The concussion water was a big reason why I haven’t been able to warm up to/care about Brady for a number of years. The Miami stuff is just a player looking out for his interests. It may suck in the narrow view but it’s probably a good thing overall.He deserves way more shit for the concussion water stuff than for thinking about changing teams.
The fact that it’s stopped dolphins fans from posting practice videos and boasting about how amazing their shite team is going to be this season is at least a couple of bonus sprinkles.I have zero misgivings about Brady talking to Miami during the season. The fact that it ended with Miami losing two picks is the cherry on top
Why is concussion water such a big deal? I get that it was bs, but it wasn't like he was out pitching it 24/7. I've literally never seen anything from him on it, except for in reporting dragging him for his endorsement. And considering the company was a Russel Wilson investment, wasn't it as much a favor to a friend as some cynical pitch (or wacky, sincerely-held belief)?Bingo. The concussion water was a big reason why I haven’t been able to warm up to/care about Brady for a number of years. The Miami stuff is just a player looking out for his interests. It may suck in the narrow view but it’s probably a good thing overall.
We are not doing this here. At all.The fact that it’s stopped dolphins fans from posting practice videos and boasting about how amazing their shite team is going to be this season is at least a couple of bonus sprinkles.
Nah, Brady's thing was different. He never said anything in public or pitched a concussion recovery suplement, but he had a quote endorsing Neuro Safe in the packaging, talking about how it makes him confident he can recover from concussions faster. It was separate from Wilson's deal if I'm not mistaken. It's still really shitty and ignorant, but yeah, not like he was out there actively selling it.Why is concussion water such a big deal? I get that it was bs, but it wasn't like he was out pitching it 24/7. I've literally never seen anything from him on it, except for in reporting dragging him for his endorsement. And considering the company was a Russel Wilson investment, wasn't it as much a favor to a friend as some cynical pitch (or wacky, sincerely-held believe)?
I swear, this is why we can't have nice things when people use concussion water as a reason to hate on Brady.
You haven't seen anything on it because the FTC shut down NeuroSafe in 2012 because it was snake oil being marketed fraudulently. The Russell Wilson product was actually entirely different, and a few years later, but was the impetus that led reporters to dig up Brady's concussion water endorsements.Why is concussion water such a big deal? I get that it was bs, but it wasn't like he was out pitching it 24/7. I've literally never seen anything from him on it, except for in reporting dragging him for his endorsement. And considering the company was a Russel Wilson investment, wasn't it as much a favor to a friend as some cynical pitch (or wacky, sincerely-held believe)?
I swear, this is why we can't have nice things when people use concussion water as a reason to hate on Brady.
I wasn't aware of this, thanks. I'd still chalk it up more as a favor to a friend (albeit one with a dubious history) than an effort by Brady to cash in. It just surprises me how often I see it referenced here as a reason to hate on Brady (or move past him) when it was such a minor thing that never took off and most people never would have heard of. Probably due more to Toucher on 98.5 - he loves to bring it up as well.You haven't seen anything on it because the FTC shut down NeuroSafe in 2012 because it was snake oil being marketed fraudulently. The Russell Wilson product was actually entirely different, and a few years later, but was the impetus that led reporters to dig up Brady's concussion water endorsements.
It's brought up because it's the starkest example of Brady, and moreso Guerrero, being marketing gurus out to make money, not health gurus with secret science. It was Guerrero's company and product, so Brady has more connection to it than just a minor endorsement deal.
I guess so, but why didn't he do this to the Chiefs and the Steelers instead of to a team that hasn't made it out of the Wild Card round during his career?Anyway, sorry for the hijack - but add me to the list that Brady costing the Dolphins two picks to not join is a point for, not against.
I can't seem to find a link on this, but Brady and Ross have a social relationship. If true, it's probably the basis for the conversations with Ross initiating the conversation. Obviously, it didn't go anywhere since Miami very well could have tried to sign him once hit hit free agency. Instead, TB went to TB. Most likely, the discussions were the impetus for Brady seeking the contract stips that he asked for with his last extension with the Pats.I guess so, but why didn't he do this to the Chiefs and the Steelers instead of to a team that hasn't made it out of the Wild Card round during his career?
I can't disagree with this.But again, I'm not of the mind that the Dolphins are getting punished for tampering as much as they are for Ross's "jokes" to Flores.
But again, I'm not of the mind that the Dolphins are getting punished for tampering as much as they are for Ross's "jokes" to Flores.
This situation, from a Miami perspective, really speaks to the Ross/Grier/Flores relationship breakdown, which clearly included a lack of trust.I can't disagree with this.
He got 6 Superbowl wins (and 9 appearances) out of his time with the Pats, so his "price breaks" were not uncompensated. I think that it is gross that his Pats legacy ended with him going through the motions in his last year while working on his next deal. He wasn't a player who needed to be negotiating his next move while he was still supposed to be fulfilling his contract terms. This doesn't change or tarnish or ruin what he did here from 2000-2018, but those don't change his 2019 bullshit either.Honestly, who would do different in his situation. He’s the greatest of all time. He’s given the Patriots everything - including a decade of price breaks. If I was the best ever at something and I could parlay that to more money and status and power by, what, moving on from an organization that’d do the same to me in a second, sign me right the fuck up.
I don’t think it’s fair to judge people for moving the same way I would, just because I don’t have the opportunity. It’s the same with those criticizing golfers for banking $100 mil in Saudi cash. Brady was trying to become the Jay Z/Diddy of the NFL. He deserves it.