Dolphins Tampering thread, loss of 2 picks and Ross suspended

Dogman

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Woah. That is a hefty penalty.

The use of the word integrity is rather conflicting given the Watson/Browns news from yesterday.
 

sodenj5

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It’s important to note that this is nearly 100% related to tampering with Tom Brady and Sean Payton and they found no evidence to suggest they were intentionally losing games.

The NFL clearly has an interest in making sure the games are in the up and up. It’s possible they would sweep findings of throwing games under the rug.
 

Mooch

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The thing that really sucks is that the teams that were negatively affected by the tampering get zero compensation for the consequences of another team's cheating.
 

rymflaherty

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Well, now it certainly is preferable for Tua to be good.
Other than that…I don’t know…seems pretty lame. Im bearish on the niners, so it doesn’t seem like the end of the world. Mostly irked since it’s about “integrity”, so waiting for them to strip the Browns of their 1st’s (they haven’t traded) for the rest of the decade.
 

Mooch

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I mean, look at the timeline: Brady signed his extension with the Pats in August of 2019 and insisted that the second year be voidable. At the same time that the NFL says the Dolphins began their tampering with him.

The league should make the Dolphins forfeit those picks to New England.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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It’s important to note that this is nearly 100% related to tampering with Tom Brady and Sean Payton and they found no evidence to suggest they were intentionally losing games.

The NFL clearly has an interest in making sure the games are in the up and up. It’s possible they would sweep findings of throwing games under the rug.
There is a bit in there that does seem to confirm that Ross offered Flores 100K for...something.
 

sodenj5

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We heard smoke about Brady and Miami for way too long to doubt these findings.

I have no doubts that Ross’s wet dream as a Michigan guy would be to have Brady involved in the organization as a player, owner, or executive.

It’s a little laughable because this stuff likely happens all of the time with agents and players and owners, but Ross managed to step in a little too directly to try and tip the scales in Miami’s favor.

I believe Miami still keeps SF’s first rounder next year.
 

sodenj5

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There is a bit in there that does seem to confirm that Ross offered Flores 100K for...something.
What my guess was, and it seems that the report sort of backs it, is Ross said off-handed or jokingly, “don’t worry about the record this year. Hell, I’ll even give you 100k per loss if it means we get the first overall pick.”

They don’t seem to have any hard evidence of him actually incentivizing losing for Flores.
 

CaptainLaddie

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What my guess was, and it seems that the report sort of backs it, is Ross said off-handed or jokingly, “don’t worry about the record this year. Hell, I’ll even give you 100k per loss if it means we get the first overall pick.”

They don’t seem to have any hard evidence of him actually incentivizing losing for Flores.
They don't *want* to have hard evidence of it. Then the league is not on the level.
 

sodenj5

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They don't *want* to have hard evidence of it. Then the league is not on the level.
Of course. I said as much.

They would much rather throw Brian Flores under the bus than throw the entire league under the bus.

Edit: short of Brian Flores having some 100k deposits in a bank statement, or documented evidence in an email or contract, that was almost always going to be impossible to prove.
 

sodenj5

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Also, Stephen Ross serving a longer suspension than Deshaun Watson.

Protect the shield.
 

Gash Prex

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It’s important to note that this is nearly 100% related to tampering with Tom Brady and Sean Payton and they found no evidence to suggest they were intentionally losing games.

The NFL clearly has an interest in making sure the games are in the up and up. It’s possible they would sweep findings of throwing games under the rug.
that’s really not true - the owner running around telling people the draft position was more important than winning and “in jest” offering 100k was absolutely part of the report

the NFL and dolphins fans will be downplay it of course
 

sodenj5

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that’s really not true - the owner running around telling people the draft position was more important than winning and “in jest” offering 100k was absolutely part of the report

the NFL and dolphins fans will be downplay it of course
That’s true.

There’s a pretty stark difference between the owner saying, “hey we’re gonna stink, so let’s at least try to make it worthwhile and get the first pick” and saying “I want you to make sure we get the first overall pick no matter what, including intentionally losing games.”
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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That’s true.

There’s a pretty stark difference between the owner saying, “hey we’re gonna stink, so let’s at least try to make it worthwhile and get the first pick” and saying “I want you to make sure we get the first overall pick no matter what, including intentionally losing games.”
If I were Flores and I had a 100K deposit in my bank account I’d show that immediately.
 

Jungleland

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Gotta be honest, if not for the Flores’s career aspect of it, I could not give less of a shit about tanking. Obviously you can’t extract the Flores aspect of it from the rumored $100k bribe thing, but if a team wants to purposely go 0-17 to get the first pick I’d let them. Have a lottery if it’s a problem imo.
 

Mystic Merlin

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This is an instance where seeing the underlying evidence would be interesting.

Like, fuck, the Wells Report looked like the output of the Warren Commission, and here they provide a couple paragraphs?
 

Ed Hillel

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So, why isn’t Tom Brady suspended? Not like the team can punish him at this point.
 

Gash Prex

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So it seems clear that BB inability to text absolutely screwed up Brady to Miami (as a player and/or owner)

And Miami can’t even tamper right - they had regular meetings and reports on their tampering with Brady for like 2.5 years
 

rymflaherty

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that’s really not true - the owner running around telling people the draft position was more important than winning and “in jest” offering 100k was absolutely part of the report

the NFL and dolphins fans will be downplay it of course
Why would Dolphins fans downplay it?
After decades of mediocrity, the way they were going all-in on a tank seemed smart as hell. All I was hoping for was one win that season.
Admittedly, I did see the importance of competing and establishing a winning culture once the team over-achieved, but I think most Dolphins fans knew the plan going into that season and were fine with it.
 

Mystic Merlin

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So, why isn’t Tom Brady suspended? Not like the team can punish him at this point.
Players aren’t prohibited by the CBA from contacting other teams while under contract, ie, the tampering prohibition doesn’t apply to players.

I actually am not familiar enough with the model player contract to know if it has any non-solicitation terms that would apply here, but it’s not like Tampa would do anything about it.
 

sodenj5

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If I were Flores and I had a 100K deposit in my bank account I’d show that immediately.
Pretty sure if he had such a thing, he’d have presented it as evidence by now.

He was quick to throw Bill under the bus with the text message screenshots, why would he hold a smoking gun like that out?
 

Ed Hillel

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Players aren’t prohibited by the CBA from contacting other teams while under contract, ie, the tampering prohibition doesn’t apply to players.

I actually am not familiar enough with the model player contract to know if it has any non-solicitation terms, but it’s not like Tampa would do anything about it.
Yeah, but..."integrity of the game," right?

Not that they would, but I wonder if the Patriots have some sort of civil suit potentially available based on standard contract details? I mean this is pretty egregious.
 

Mooch

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Won't someone think of poor Don Shula at a time like this? I'm sure he's quite upset right now....
 

NortheasternPJ

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So while Brady was the most miserable 8-0 QB in the league he's texting the whole time with the Dolphins? Brady can go fuck off at this point. I went to probably 100 games while he was QB and loved him. The constant media blitz going on, the nonsense around retiring and now this BS, I'd be happy to never hear from him again

1000% loved him, he's the GOAT and nothing against him as a player but the last 4-5 years, including his last couple in New England, is off-putting. I'd welcome him back to Foxboro anytime, but I've had enough of him at this point.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Yeah, but..."integrity of the game," right?

Not that they would, but I wonder if the Patriots have some sort of civil suit potentially available based on standard contract details? I mean this is pretty egregious.
I think any player-team contract dispute would go to arbitration (see, eg, the disputes over bonus payments with Hernandez and Brown), although I don’t know what kind of relief the Pats could plausibly stand to get.
 

BaseballJones

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How do we look at the player being tampered with?
This is a great question and not one that I personally want to deal with, because I think I won't like the answer. But unless Brady told Ross to go F himself, then that probably means that Brady actually engaged in conversation with him about the possibility of being there, all while being under contract with the Patriots.

And THAT might mean that his mind was elsewhere during the 2019 season.

So yeah, I'm gonna stop right there because I don't like where this train of thought is headed.....
 

Ferm Sheller

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I really don't think that businesses can punish employees under contract from discussing/exploring post-contract options -- which is what we have here. The notion of Brady sharing culpability should die.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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How do we look at the player being tampered with?
You mean, like, should we judge Brady for this? I know it's the Dolphins thread and maybe this deserves its own thread but in my view very harshly. Schefter's reporting makes it sound like the tampering was going on for months and that has to be more than Brady just saying, "I can't talk to you." I know he's Tom Brady but if he was a willing participant, that's not cool.
 

cshea

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You mean, like, should we judge Brady for this? I know it's the Dolphins thread and maybe this deserves its own thread but in my view very harshly. Schefter's reporting makes it sound like the tampering was going on for months and that has to be more than Brady just saying, "I can't talk to you." I know he's Tom Brady but if he was a willing participant, that's not cool.
He did it twice too, once with the Pats once with the Bucs. And that's just what we know about from this investigation.

He's absolutely not without fault here and it bums me out.
 

scott bankheadcase

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He did it twice too, once with the Pats once with the Bucs. And that's just what we know about from this investigation.

He's absolutely not without fault here and it bums me out.
But do players have any responsibility? I mean Mac Jones could come out and say "as soon as my contract is up I want to sign with the Packers for the league minimum." It would be a stupid business decision, but he can do it without issue.

Players can talk to whoever they want. The teams need to not tamper.
 

Archer1979

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What my guess was, and it seems that the report sort of backs it, is Ross said off-handed or jokingly, “don’t worry about the record this year. Hell, I’ll even give you 100k per loss if it means we get the first overall pick.”

They don’t seem to have any hard evidence of him actually incentivizing losing for Flores.
I'm somewhat ignorant on this, but how does this penalty for tampering stack up against others? I'm thinking that the reason that this is so harsh has more to do with the tampering "joke" than anything else. Goodell isn't going to admit that games were being purposely thrown and maybe this is his way of punishing without admitting that they found anything.
 

cshea

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But do player have any responsibility? I mean Mac Jones could come out and say "as soon as my contract is up I want to sign with the Packers for the league minimum." It would be a stupid business decision, but he can do it without issue.

Players can talk to whoever they want. The teams need to not tamper.
I think those scenarios are two different things. It's one thing for a player to state they'd like to play for another team, it's another thing to be engaged in active, continuing conversation with another team while under contract.
 

Harry Hooper

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I really don't think that businesses can punish employees under contract from discussing/exploring post-contract options -- which is what we have here. The notion of Brady sharing culpability should die.
Maybe the player gets a pass (even if that's questionable policy), but agent Don Yee will face no repercussions from this from the NFL?
 

Cotillion

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We heard smoke about Brady and Miami for way too long to doubt these findings.

I have no doubts that Ross’s wet dream as a Michigan guy would be to have Brady involved in the organization as a player, owner, or executive.

It’s a little laughable because this stuff likely happens all of the time with agents and players and owners, but Ross managed to step in a little too directly to try and tip the scales in Miami’s favor.

I believe Miami still keeps SF’s first rounder next year.
If the Patriots rule is followed they will forfeit their highest pick even if they trade up.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Maybe the player gets a pass (even if that's questionable policy), but agent Don Yee will face no repercussions from this from the NFL?
If we agree that the player isn't culpable, I don't see how the agent (who's just an extension of the player), would be. I think that the blame should lie entirely with the organization in tampering situations (unless it's true that the player's activity is somehow affecting his performance under his current contract).
 

Cotillion

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If the Patriots rule is followed they will forfeit their highest pick even if they trade up.
I believe it's literally the rule cause of how Belichick gamed the system after the Pat forfeited one of their 1st rounders. So the NFL changed it so it will always be your highest pick in a round no matter how you got the pick (your own or a trade).