Do you want Remy to be the teams announcer on opening day?

Do you want Remy to be the teams announcer on opening day?

  • Yes

    Votes: 171 33.8%
  • No - I want him fired or "forced" into retiring

    Votes: 95 18.8%
  • No - I want him to quit on his own

    Votes: 240 47.4%

  • Total voters
    506

Sprowl

mikey lowell of the sandbox
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
31,503
Haiku
Don't fire Remy because his son is a monster and Remy's an enabler. Fire him because he's unfunny, self-aggrandizing and increasingly awful as an announcer.
 
Foulkey Reese said:
Think of how awkward those interviews are going to be now.
 
At least NESN won't be bringing back Sox Appeal, because that would be really puke-worthy. :barf:
 
Rovin Romine said:
I listen to the radio anyway. But the number of bitchy and whiny threads on this subject has now cemented me into the "remdawg forever" demographic.

PS unless Eck takes over. In that case throw le rem into the volcano.
The volcano would erupt him right back. Looking at Jared's ugly mug should make it clear enough that Remy is not a virgin.
 
Frank said:
I think if anyone can steal this from him, it's Dave Roberts.
Dave is fleet of foot but leaden of tongue.
 

Sprowl

mikey lowell of the sandbox
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
31,503
Haiku
litigator02 said:
You guys are so lucky. I wish I could live a life of complete moral certainty and have the confidence to condemn anyone who behaves differently that I would have behaved, given the benefit of the superior view that my high horse affords me.
 
Nobody needs complete moral certainty to be astonished by the wreckage of the Remy family. Would you like to offer any specific rebuttals or examples of how you would have behaved differently, or is your horse so high and your nose so elevated that you can't see any details from up there?
 
Sometimes sarcasm is indistinguishable from just being a prick.
 

litigator02

Member
SoSH Member
No, I don't want to give "specific rebuttals or examples of what I would have done differently." That's my whole point - I have no idea what I would have done in Remy's situation. I don't exist in the Remy family; I don't know the hundreds of things that bore upon his decisions about how to handle Jared.

All I know about is my family and how I manage my decisions, and I know that I fuck up plenty of those. I bet from the safe preserve of perfect hindsight and detached objectivity, even more of my decisions would be viewed as fuckups.

But I don't get to operate in an environment of hindsight and objectivity; I operate in the moment and in environments that are full of emotion. And I would no sooner judge Remy for the decisions that he made in those circumstances than I would accept him, or you, or SOSH calling for my head because of my decisions.

We don't know Remy's world or the people in it. For us to get all exercised with moral certainty that we would have done right where Remy did wrong seems unbelievably arrogant.
 

ivanvamp

captain obvious
Jul 18, 2005
6,104
I prefer Eck.  Brings more to the table.  IMO, much more enjoyable to listen to.  
 

Sille Skrub

Dope
Dope
Mar 3, 2004
4,222
San Francisco, CA
SoxFanInCali said:
There is a massive difference between making a couple of comments on a message board and enabling someone who has repeatedly beaten women.  When you try to associate the two, your message loses a large amount of its credibility.
Thanks Mike. You nailed it here.

It was a nice attempt, but to paint all of us with such with a broad brush completely takes away from luckysox's message.

luckysox, I have no idea who you are, how you live your life, how you treat people every day and in no way would I ever presume to.

The same could be said about you for me.
 

Al Zarilla

Member
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Dec 8, 2005
49,460
San Andreas Fault
Sprowl said:
 
Dave is fleet of foot but leaden of tongue.
Frank's comment (Roberts could steal Remy's job) was tongue in cheek I'm sure, but Dave is bench coach for the Padres. Next stop, manager somewhere? 
 
As for Remy, I've broken my rule about watching (a few) ST games this year and Remy, and Orsillo seemed to be sticking to the game more. But, my sample size is small, again, just watched probably 4 or 5 games. Remy also sounds OK, want to say not distracted, but who knows? I voted for keeping him in the job for 2014, but down the road I hope they find a way to gracefully bring in the Eck because he is better. Then again, I think Eck is better than just about any baseball color man right now. Mike Krukow is the other guy I know that's outstanding, but I don't watch many games beyond Sox and Giants ones. 
 

Hyde Park Factor

token lebanese
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2008
1,443
Manchvegas
Bravo, luckysox.  Bravo.  As you say, it's easy to wield a pitchfork from behind the computer screen, but it does literally nothing to solve the problem.  Thank you for illuminating the soft white underbelly of DV and making some effort to redirect the collective righteous indignation here towards folks who can actually benefit from some help and support.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,132
As I mentioned before I feel that the Sox would benefit from having Remy finish out this year then reevaluating. Whether you personally like him or not he certainly isn't the worst in the league. I never really got the feeling that him and Orsillo meshed to be honest but that's my opinion. But if you look at places like Tampa or the White Sox believe me our play by play could be a lot worse. I did forget that Eck was a recovering alcoholic. One idea would be to grab Nomar and have him replace Remy when his ESPN deal is up.
 

iayork

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 6, 2006
636
Don and Jerry aren't great, but they're a long, long way from the worst announcers around.  Replacement announcers can sound great for a game or three, but I doubt that many of them would still be interesting or entertaining after 162 games, let alone 2000 or whatever Remy has done. Eck isn't the answer because he doesn't want to travel, and he doesn't need the schtick enough that they can make him (and honestly, Eck is fantastic for a week or two, but I don't want to hear a full season of him).   The odds are pretty good that whoever replaces Remy will end up being worse.   
 

Jnai

is not worried about sex with goats
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Sep 15, 2007
13,789
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Tyrone Biggums said:
As I mentioned before I feel that the Sox would benefit from having Remy finish out this year then reevaluating. Whether you personally like him or not he certainly isn't the worst in the league. I never really got the feeling that him and Orsillo meshed to be honest but that's my opinion. But if you look at places like Tampa or the White Sox believe me our play by play could be a lot worse. I did forget that Eck was a recovering alcoholic. One idea would be to grab Nomar and have him replace Remy when his ESPN deal is up.
 
You never got the feeling that Remy and Orsillo meshed? The guys that sometimes spend several innings giggling at some random thing in the crowd?
 
I voted "Yes" for the opposite reason: Remy and Orsillo are a fantastic duo, work very well together, and generally make games enjoyable. There was a period where Remy was trying to sell you some new Remy-themed merch every half inning and NESN was way too permissive of it, but for the most part, he's very good at his job. I find most announcers awful in terms of actual analysis (offering 650 hours of insightful commentary/year is more or less impossible), but Remy fills the other important criteria - he makes the game fun to watch.
 
I could see that changing depending on how he and his family handle the upcoming trial. I'm glad they quickly settled the custody stuff with the Martells. Having thought about it more, for all his failure as a parent, he didn't stab anybody, and it seems unfair to hold him responsible for it.
 

Toe Nash

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Jul 28, 2005
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Rovin Romine said:
I listen to the radio anyway. But the number of bitchy and whiny threads on this subject has now cemented me into the "remdawg forever" demographic.

PS unless Eck takes over. In that case throw le rem into the volcano.
There are two threads since the original one on the murder, no? Sorry we polluted the board up with our bitching (are you sure you want to use that word here?). Let's go back to talking about Drew.
 
It's not about whether Remy himself did anything anyone else would or wouldn't have done. Nor are we putting Remy on trial - you can put away your lawyer hats. It's about whether we want what he has come to represent, which is the horrible case of his son, to represent the Boston Red Sox to quite literally the world. I do not. I mean, Jenny Dell was let go for less, no?
 
NESN is not a court of law and they can do whatever they want re: Jerry. They should answer to the fans and even if the problem is a larger societal problem, maybe showing society that one person isn't bigger than everyone else is a step in the right direction.
 
I feel like the issue isn't going to just go away either. Things are going to be rehashed at trial, hearings, whatever, and there may be more stories in the Globe. What happens if a player is involved in a DV incident? That will be fun for NESN to handle.
 
I'm more embarrassed that the Sox gave Jared himself a job, and allowed him to return to that job after he was sent to jail yet again, but that is in the past. At the very least they could face the issue head-on and donate money or run ads or something to try to help the societal issue. I don't see anyone anywhere offering anything beyond "Oh well, these situations are fucked up, but certainly don't blame the courts or the people involved in abusers' lives!" OK, fine, so what can we do to help?
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,132
Jnai said:
 
You never got the feeling that Remy and Orsillo meshed? The guys that sometimes spend several innings giggling at some random thing in the crowd?
 
I voted "Yes" for the opposite reason: Remy and Orsillo are a fantastic duo, work very well together, and generally make games enjoyable. There was a period where Remy was trying to sell you some new Remy-themed merch every half inning and NESN was way too permissive of it, but for the most part, he's very good at his job. I find most announcers awful in terms of actual analysis (offering 650 hours of insightful commentary/year is more or less impossible), but Remy fills the other important criteria - he makes the game fun to watch.
 
I could see that changing depending on how he and his family handle the upcoming trial. I'm glad they quickly settled the custody stuff with the Martells. Having thought about it more, for all his failure as a parent, he didn't stab anybody, and it seems unfair to hold him responsible for it.
Meshed in terms of the quality of calling a game. It seems like they have a great time up there together but I think there is zero balance in the substance of the broadcast. But I agree that this isn't his fault. It's almost akin to anyone being asked to leave a job because of something stupid their child did. All accounts have had his son as an awful human being before this horrific act. I mean you can say that the child was entitled and that Remy wasn't a great father but it has nothing to do with his job and his performance. All acts need changing up from time to time unless your name is Vin Scully
 

TheShynessClinic

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Oct 25, 2007
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I think one of the big issues here is that Remy is the public face of a rather large entity.
 
Does he deserve to outright lose his job? Probably not. But do The Red Sox (and by extension, us) want him at the forefront of all things Red Sox over the next however many years he sticks around? Do we want to hear him laughing and giggling over someone getting a pizza thrown at them? That's where things get a bit murky. Is the viewing public going to forever associate him with the monster he raised, and the woman that monster killed?
 
I forget if it was T&R, or F&M - but someone made the point that NESN can always place Remy in a job that is not in front of the camera.
 

smastroyin

simpering whimperer
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Jul 31, 2002
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Remy sucks for me and has for years, that is why I would like him gone.  but my mom loves him as does a bunch of the casual NESN audience.  I kind of thought with all of the news, his battles with cancer, and the feel good surrounding the team they may have taken the chance to replace him this year.  
 
I don't know if keeping him employed is somehow first degree of separation enabling of domestic violence.  I do think that from afar it is easy for us to judge, as usual, what a father should have done with a problem child.  For the actual father the world is not so black and white.  
 

Yaz4Ever

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mt8thsw9th said:
I've known some people that worked at NESN, and as far back as 2004 would say things along the line of, "Jerry isn't the lovable character he plays on TV", and said he was more of a bitter type that cared more about a cig and a glass of whiskey than going on air. I wonder if it related to stress in his personal life, or if it was just that type of person, who not shockingly would raise such "interesting" kids. It's been tough to listen to games with him on board; he's not bad, per se, but at one point having grown to dislike Orsillo's robotic self, once Remy was off the broadcasts it was increasingly more obvious that the problem wasn't really Orsillo, but Remy. Orsillo is a vanilla, repetitive announcer on his best days, but it works when paired with someone like Eckersley, because despite his warts (and him grinding on some of my pet peeves), the guy has a good voice and seems to be a professional. The Remy self-promotion and gigglefests got old a while ago. It was tough to buy into 'Remy the goofy color guy' when you knew it was an act.
 
All of that aside, it's clear that Remy needs to focus 100 percent of his time to his family at this point. He's made a great living turning a failed career on the baseball diamond into a success in the booth, but I don't know why people should be forced to grin and bear his presence given what the children he raised have done, while he plays the goofball in the announcing booth bankrolling their entitled and sociopathic behavior. I can't help but think all of the time in that booth and on the road could've been best served with his family when his children were in their formative years.
 
While I was taken aback a bit by John Henry's defense of Remy, I would hope the Red Sox could have an amicable split and set up a college fund for Jennifer Martel's child, and lend support in the interim, as this child was only born into this world, only to have her mother brutally murdered, due to the organization giving employment to a convicted batterer. A man, who if it weren't for the paychecks from the organization to his father, wouldn't have been able to lawyer his way out of prison time and time again. Admit fault and move on.
Jerry has dealt with depression issues for years, so I'm not remotely surprised to hear what your friends had to say.  Outstanding post, very well thought out and written, and contributes much more to the discussion than the vast majority of posts in this thread.
 
Sille Skrub said:
I'd "like" that post if I could. Very well said, dude.
Yup.  Completely agree.
 
Frank said:
I think if anyone can steal this from him, it's Dave Roberts. 
Very well played.
 
MentalDisabldLst said:
When I'm listening to Remy broadcast a game, all that matters to me is whether Remy is good at his job - making me enjoy the game more, and not get annoyed at him in the process.  I don't think what Remy has going on in his personal life makes one damn bit of difference (or whether, as eightsworth suggested, he's a big fat phony).  Until and unless it changes what he says or how he says it in the booth, I think no less of Remy than I do about (say) all the ballplayers I root for who doubtless cheat on their wives.  I'm consuming an entertainment product, not judging a morality play.
 
I haven't caught many spring training games this month, so if people feel that Remy is a shadow of his former self, I'd be interested to hear it from them.  But otherwise, I'll get on the opposing soapbox and say that I like the Remy and Orsillo show.  They put the game first, they call it honest, opining on blown calls that favor both sides, they seem to legitimately love the game, they have insights to add, and they do it all without being overbearing, arrogant, or dull.  Sometimes they're kitsch-y.  Sometimes they're corny.  Sometimes they get the giggles, or plug their products.  But I couldn't name a broadcast team who I'd prefer to them (non-Scully division).  The average MLB broadcast makes you fall asleep, or throw things at the TV in the hopes of hitting the likes of Hawk Harrelson.  Remy expands the world of people who watch baseball, and doesn't annoy the hardcore fans in the process.  Until that really changes (in which case, sign me up for Eck), I think he's doing a great job - and that's all I care about.
I think that a lot of people get wrapped up in Jerry selling Wally dolls and promoting his other interests, but compared to the vast majority of announcers in MLB our duo is outstanding.  When things need to be called out, Jerry (and to a lesser account, Don) call them out without regard to the laundry being worn.  They're homers, but not overly so.
 
 
I think luckysox made a solid effort in her post earlier, but like many others here I disagree somewhat with the "enabling" thing.  If Jared was anyone else's son, we'd know very little, if anything, about what happened to Jennifer Martel.  Domestic Violence is far too common, but if we blame the parents for everything their children do we're moving the focus from the issue at hand.  Yes, shitty parenting can lead to animals like Jared Remy walking the streets, but I also know people who did everything they could to provide a loving and healthy home for their children only to have their kids throw it all away.  Putting their faults/crimes on their parents would be completely unfair.  My best friend growing up had a father who was in prison more than he was out.  His mother was a complete zero as a parent and enabled the father whenever he was back home.  This guy had zero parental support, literally no one monitoring what he did, and every excuse to follow his father into the system.  Instead, he graduated from college with degrees in accounting and computer science, worked for 15 years as head of IT for a major fortune 500 company, got married, has two kids, bought a house, and then put himself through an MBA program.  He never received a positive comment from anyone in his family throughout any of this.
 
I guess my point is that not all parents are to be held accountable/praised for what their children do.  
 
I enjoy Don and Jerry.  They make me roll my eyes from time to time, but overall I enjoy them.  That said, if Jerry decides it's time to step down and NESN replaces him with Eck and/or David Roberts, I think we could do a lot worse.
 

cornwalls@6

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Apr 23, 2010
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from the wilds of western ma
The fact that it's the Friday before opening day, as defending champions, and a DV/Murder story is, at least to some degree, a significant part of the story, kind of makes the case for why NESN/Red Sox need to move on from Remy. I'm in the camp that thinks this a horrible, complicated mess of a story, and making absolute moral judgments about he and his wife's culpability in this, is a dicey proposition at best. But, watching a baseball game should be a relief from this kind of thing. And his continued presence in the booth does not fully provide that. Plus, I'm beyond tired of the giggle twins act. I mean, these 2 continue to commemorate a drunk fan throwing a slice of pizza at another like it's Bobby Thompson's homerun. Enough already. Give Eck whatever it will take for him to sign on full-time. Or go with a decent rotating color man set-up.  But move on.          
 

TomRicardo

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Sprowl said:
Don't fire Remy because his son is a monster and Remy's an enabler. Fire him because he's unfunny, self-aggrandizing and increasingly awful as an announcer.
 
 
100% Agree.  I rather listen to Suzyn Waldman at this point
 

cromulence

Member
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Aug 25, 2009
4,296
TomRicardo said:
 
100% Agree.  I rather listen to Suzyn Waldman at this point
 
WHOA. Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not say anything here that we may end up regretting. 
 

cromulence

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Aug 25, 2009
4,296
Hyde Park Factor said:
"Well, yeah, she's right and everything, but does she need to be such a bitch about it?"
 
That's not fair. Seriously. You don't get to cast anyone who disagrees with you as a misogynist. 
 

luckysox

Eeyore
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Apr 21, 2009
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cornwalls@6 said:
The fact that it's the Friday before opening day, as defending champions, and a DV/Murder story is, at least to some degree, a significant part of the story, kind of makes the case for why NESN/Red Sox need to move on from Remy. I'm in the camp that thinks this a horrible, complicated mess of a story, and making absolute moral judgments about he and his wife's culpability in this, is a dicey proposition at best. But, watching a baseball game should be a relief from this kind of thing. And his continued presence in the booth does not fully provide that. 
Cornwalls@6, I don't mean to point you out individually, but I am going to use your post as an example of what I meant by "We all enable..." Of course we'd like baseball, or any leisure activity, to be a relief from such things.  But here we are, presented on a nightly basis with a situation that almost requires us to remember what happened to Jennifer Martell. I think the general public being forced to remember that this awful situation happened, and that it happens too often, is maybe a way to change how we view DV.  Maybe it makes a few of us volunteer to help.  Maybe it makes some of us think twice before using derogatory language about women, even in jest. Maybe it makes one of us intervene when we see a man in parking lot grab his partner's arm too roughly. Maybe it makes us think about it instead of doing anything NOT to think about it.  I apologize if I made some who have been outspoken about this issue feel as if I implicated them, personally, in this murder, and in all DV cases.  Truly, it was not my intention to single any person or opinion out and say, "Well, really, it's your fault, not Jerry Remy's". But the truth is, I implicate myself, too.  I implicate all of us. It's not personal, it's societal. "I, You, We, Us" -  it's all of us, together. If we are always looking for comfort and relief in life, in the face of some awful things that happen, well, what will ever change with those awful things? And I think what probably gets me the most excitable about this particular issue on this particular board is that I have seen all of us do some amazing things in the name of incredibly worthy causes, even in the face of massive discomfort and pain. All of us, together. We have made a difference in the world.  Violence against women and DV - they are hidden in plain sight, they have become just "one of those things" that happen in our world. But if you look beyond the surface, you'll see that these too, are worthy causes. And I feel like calling for Jerry Remy's head - well, I guess I believe that we're better than that here.  Because that won't solve any problem that isn't just a surface blemish.  I am certain we, here, could make a difference in some people's lives if we decided that this situation, both specifically, and more importantly in general, disgusted us as much as childhood cancer does, or AIDS, or the Marathon Bombings last year.  But it is really uncomfortable, and most people, me included, want to just make it go the hell away.  Because somewhere inside, we all know that it could be our mother, our daughter, sister, aunt, friend, niece...in fact, there is very little likelihood that you don't know someone who has been in an abusive relationship or who has experienced violence because she is a woman. Very, very unlikely. 
 
I'm sorry if I offended anyone.  Like I said in my first post, I knew I'd get riled up once I started writing, and I did. This issue is close to my heart and I am passionate about it. I need to remember to not dismiss other people's opinions, even when they don't mesh with mine. But I hope I have at least opened another way in which we can view what's happening with Jerry Remy.  And maybe we can find a way to do something about this instead of just being so angry and upset (I read the Globe article, too, and it disgusted me as much as it disgusted those of you who disagree with me. I think we're all in agreement that it was incredibly sad to read). 
 

Foulkey Reese

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Apr 12, 2006
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Thoughts on a SoSH DV donation in memory of Jennifer Martell? 
 
This way we could actually do something that would give our complaining a bit of a moral high ground. 
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
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What few Sox games I've seen this spring, when I hear Remy's voice I have no viscerally negative reaction, other than "his life sucks right now." (YES YES I KNOW, IT DOESN'T SUCK AS BAD AS OTHERS IN THIS NIGHTMARE -- I never said it did.).   His presence doesn't bother me anymore than it did last time he did games. Sometimes I enjoy him, sometimes I dont.  (That said, I rarely watch on TV beyond 10pm, so I rarely see full weeknight games, and often listen to entire weekend games on radio owing to life things; so maybe my small dose of him keeps my dislike at bay).  Knowledge fo the murder just doesn;t get a rise out of me (or a distraction) when I see / hear him.
 
I do wonder whether if, as luckysox suggests, Remy's continued presence serves a purpose to raise the profile of DV? I dont know the answer to that. Maybe, as was also suggested upthread, his booth job needs to be augmented or replaced with involvement in an actual high-profile DV awareness & prevention campaign to have an effect.
 
Ultimately, I voted that he should stay.
 
Edited for grammar.
 

Myt1

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Hyde Park Factor said:
"Well, yeah, she makes a good point and everything, but does she need to be such a bitch about it?"

Edit: clarity
I'm sorry; that's your clarified post?

She used a false equivalence and a false dilemma to sloppily discuss an incredibly important issue.

Apparently, she's letting you handle the straw manning. But thanks for illustrating my point.
 

luckysox

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Foulkey Reese said:
Thoughts on a SoSH DV donation in memory of Jennifer Martell? 
 
This way we could actually do something that would give our complaining a bit of a moral high ground. 
Well I'd be in. If I knew more about organizing this sort of thing, I'd take the lead.  But I'm happy to help in any way possible.
 

smastroyin

simpering whimperer
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Without actually editting individual posts, it is hard for me to break out the SoSH sexism discussion but I'm going to suggest we shut up about it on the main board and bring it somewhere else.
 
Let's leave the main board for its purpose, to discuss the Red Sox and baseball, not SoSH.  That's not to say the discussion isn't important, but it is to say it can be had independent of Jerry Remy.  So please take it elsewhere if it is important to you.
 

Myt1

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Foulkey Reese said:
Thoughts on a SoSH DV donation in memory of Jennifer Martell? 
I think that would be great. Greater Boston Legal Services does some great DV/209A work if we wanted to go that route. If people prefer a contribution to a crisis center I'm sure that others can offer good candidates.
 

absintheofmalaise

too many flowers
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Mar 16, 2005
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I moved the gender/race/sexual orientation posts to backwash. Please keep it there. Like smas said, it is a different issue. I didn't feel like editing either, so some of you had your posts addressing both issues moved in toto. 
 

cornwalls@6

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No issue at all with you using my post, and I respect, and share, your views regarding the issue. But I don't think wanting to take a break from real-life by watching baseball game, or whatever, makes anyone an enabler. It's not an either/or. You can be an engaged, properly concerned citizen, and still want to enjoy certain forms of your entertainment,  free from being reminded of the hard, serious, uglier sides of life. That's what I want from a sox game. And I suspect as the season goes on, and the Jared Remy story continues to play out, the façade of business as usual in the NESN booth is going to be harder and harder to maintain.   
 
 
 
Edit: Anyone else having trouble quoting another post?       
 

Dick Pole Upside

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Respectfully, is this a main board topic?
 
It seems we've taken a media-related thread that is incongruous with team/individual performance and thrust it onto the portion of the board reserved for discussion of the game and the players.
 
I appreciate the suggestion to start new threads, but I don't believe this belongs here.
 

Hyde Park Factor

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Myt1 said:
I'm sorry; that's your clarified post?

She used a false equivalence and a false dilemma to sloppily discuss an incredibly important issue.

Apparently, she's letting you handle the straw manning. But thanks for illustrating my point.
 
 
And I was going to thank you for illustrating her point.  So we're even.
 
Straw man?  I don't think so.  What I saw in the original post by luckysox falls under the "slap you upside the head" umbrella.  If we, as a board, can discuss Jerry Remy's employment situation  with such passion, why not take that passion and put that energy towards something that can actually make a difference and make things better in the long run?  I mean, where's the straw man in "you're not seeing the forest for the trees here, people?
 
And just as a point of interest, I correctly predicted which of the posters in here were going to completely miss her point.  
 

TheYaz67

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Well, over 300 votes now, so approaching some statistical significance, and almost 75% of us want him gone for one reason or another..... the Glob/Herald should also be polling this.
 

IdiotKicker

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Nov 21, 2005
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This is actually a really interesting question here.  Typically, I feel that in a number of cases, we're too quick to call for someone to be fired because they screwed up somewhere else in their life.  To me, firing someone is really about whether or not they are able to do their job on a daily basis.  So I don't particularly like when someone gets a DUI or drug arrest and all of a sudden people start calling for their head.  I think that in a number of cases, having someone step back to re-evaluate their life and get their life on track is the better option, and if they are able to do that and still do their job, then more power to them.  Now, if someone is committing fraud, creating problems for others at work, or is simply unable to do their job because they're unqualified, those are situations in which they should be fired, because they are directly undermining the mission of the company.
 
This case, on the surface, is even more of a stretch.  We are talking about firing someone for the actions of someone else who they had no direct control over.  I'm not going to get into the machinations of how lawyers were funded by the Remys, the lengthy criminal record, or things along those lines, but what this really boils down to is being fired because your kid committed a crime, albeit a terrible one.  So initially, my first thought is that this should have absolutely no impact on Jerry.
 
The problem is that Jerry doesn't have a normal job.  Jerry doesn't go to work and crunch numbers in a back room or come up with corporate strategy.  Jerry is, for better or for worse, one of the faces of a corporation whose primary job is to entertain people and take them away from some of the problems in their lives for a few hours a day.  So the question becomes whether or not Jerry is actually still able to do the job that he was hired to do.  And to be honest, I don't know the answer to this question.  I don't think anyone actually does.  But this is a unique case because Jerry's ability to do his job well directly intersects with the court of public opinion.  It's not like he is measured based on the accuracy of his work or any metric along those lines.  He is going to be measured based on bringing viewers in and holding their attention.  And this clearly creates some major questions marks as far as this goes.
 
The second question raised whenever an employee runs into trouble is whether or not the problem can be corrected.  If someone gets a DUI, you send them to counseling and make sure they are getting their life in order and not screwing around anymore.  But there's no objective way to measure if Jerry is going to become a "better parent" after this, especially since his kids are older anyways.  So there's no real way to track whether he's actually making progress and taking care of the issues that need to be taken care of.
 
The last question out there is whether or not Jerry's absence has any substantial effect on ratings.  Based on the fact that ratings went from a 6.4 in 2012 to a 7.3 last year on NESN, even with Remy out for the latter part of the season, I think it's pretty clear that Remy is not needed in the booth in order to maintain the business.  The product on the field is going to be what determines success there.
 
So because of this, and this is simply because of the nature of the position he holds and the nature of what happened to him, I would actually say that it is in the best interest of the Red Sox to find a way to let Jerry go.  I don't think it's the right move in all situations, I don't think it's the right move in the majority of situations, to be honest.  But in this specific one, I think it is what needs to be done.  Again, I'm looking at this from the perspective of the business simply trying to deal with risk.  I'm not saying that Jerry deserves all of the blame for this, or whose fault the entire situation is.  Those are questions that aren't particularly important for what we're talking about here.  From a pure business perspective, it probably doesn't make sense to keep Jerry around.
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

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Toe Nash said:
It's not about whether Remy himself did anything anyone else would or wouldn't have done. Nor are we putting Remy on trial - you can put away your lawyer hats. It's about whether we want what he has come to represent, which is the horrible case of his son, to represent the Boston Red Sox to quite literally the world. I do not. I mean, Jenny Dell was let go for less, no?
 
...
 
I feel like the issue isn't going to just go away either. Things are going to be rehashed at trial, hearings, whatever, and there may be more stories in the Globe. What happens if a player is involved in a DV incident? That will be fun for NESN to handle.
 
See, this is the connection that some people in this thread are drawing that makes no sense to me.  Baseball is an escape.  It's a self-contained universe with well-defined rules, but which surprises you all the time and occasionally delights you.  When Remy's in the booth, he's pointing out things about a batter's swing, or a fielder's path to the ball, or a pitcher's mechanics, or what Farrell was talking about before the game the other day.  Don is narrating, but Jerry's illuminating the universe we're all diving into to forget about life for a while.  Unless he's hawking something, that's about all I think about Jerry Remy and all I know or really care to know about him.  He doesn't "represent" anything, any more than Drake Britton has come to "represent" DUIs, or Pedro made the 2004 team represent elder abuse, or Ugie Urbina made the team represent attempted murder.  And those were actual players - Remy, of course, isn't accused of anything.  Brett Myers very publicly beat his wife in 2006, and has played every year since and may still play - where is the outcry?  I bet you've watched the Sox play the Phillies since then, or the Astros.
 
The only thing NESN needs to "handle" is making sure Remy continues giving the same number of shits about delivering a quality broadcast as he always has.  This will always be my favorite.  Other than that, I don't think they have a PR disaster on their hands unless Jerry Remy makes one for them.
 

flymrfreakjar

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I remember a few years back (2005 maybe? Keep in mind this is pretty hazy...), Manny was in a rare prolonged funk. In his first or second AB, he fouls a ball back and Remy goes 'Watch out.' Manny then struck out. Next at bat is a similar story ending with a ground out or the like, but Remy keeps saying, 'this is the best I've seen him swing the bat in months' then he goes on to talk about balance, when he's getting his foot down, where his hands are, all this great, fascinating stuff. Sure enough the night goes on and Manny ends up 0-4 but Remy keeps insisting to Don, who seemed skeptical, that Manny's slump was over. Sure enough the next day he hit 2 homers en route to one of those long, scary hot streaks he was known for. 
 
It seems like forever since I've heard him truly opine about baseball on the air, recently focusing on Don's fashion or the like. But back in the day I thought he was a great asset in the booth, and a pleasure to listen to. However, I guess from where I stand it's hard to find some of the vitriol being thrown around (concerning his performance anyway), as even if he's lost his fastball, he's still the same guy I enjoyed listening to for a lot of my younger years. This story has a sad end no matter how you slice it, but I'll be disappointed to see him go. It does feel like it'll be for the best though.
 

IHateDaveKerpen

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TheYaz67 said:
Well, over 300 votes now, so approaching some statistical significance, and almost 75% of us want him gone for one reason or another..... the Glob/Herald should also be polling this.
 
Sadly, I think a Globe/Herald poll would come out with 75% of people wanting Remy to stay.
 

Hoplite

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Oct 26, 2013
1,116
Maybe I've been living under a rock, but I was surprised by this poll result. I was aware of the terrible actions of Remy's son, but was unaware of anything that Remy has said or done that would be condemning for him. I am genuinely curious, has Remy done or said anything related to his son that warrants him being fired/asked to leave or is this more of a guilt/embarrassment by association thing?
 

Myt1

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Hyde Park Factor said:
And I was going to thank you for illustrating her point.  So we're even.
So, my disagreement with her formation and characterization of the issue is evidence of enabling domestic violence? Good to know.
 
Straw man?  I don't think so.  What I saw in the original post by luckysox falls under the "slap you upside the head" umbrella.  If we, as a board, can discuss Jerry Remy's employment situation  with such passion, why not take that passion and put that energy towards something that can actually make a difference and make things better in the long run?  I mean, where's the straw man in "you're not seeing the forest for the trees here, people?
The straw man was your characterization of my disagreement with the logic of her argument, something that I do here every day to posters of both genders, with calling her a bitch. It's wrong, tired, and lazy, and unfortunately par for the course with your posts. You have little else to offer, so you retreat to what you know.

Moreover, the notion that I only disagreed with her because I missed her point is ridiculous. Some of us actually do direct our passion and energy at something that can make a difference about the issue.
 

Reverend

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Hoplite said:
Maybe I've been living under a rock, but I was surprised by this poll result. I was aware of the terrible actions of Remy's son, but was unaware of anything that Remy has said or done that would be condemning for him. I am genuinely curious, has Remy done or said anything related to his son that warrants him being fired/asked to leave or is this more of a guilt/embarrassment by association thing?
 
There's a thread on this in the media forum--it's probably better to read that than to relitigate* the matter here.
 
 
* :fonz:
 

brs3

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May 20, 2008
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Jerry Remy on D&C today
 
 
“I read a column yesterday that comes out and says we’re bad parents and we shouldn’t even be allowed to see our granddaughter, because what will we do, have pictures of our son all over the house? We’re not stupid. That kind of thing, it’s that kind of reporting that is disgusting to me. What are we going to do, bring our granddaughter into our house, show her pictures of daddy? Give me a break. We’re going to have her on the phone with him from the can? Give me a break. We’re going to take her for visitations to jail? Give me a break. We’re not stupid, either. It’s those kind of things that upset me a little bit.
“The other stuff is fact. The other stuff is what it is. But when you start saying things like that … You can call us the worst parents in the world, I can accept that. You can call me an enabler, I can accept that. But when you start talking about how we’re going to treat our granddaughter toward her father and say foolish, stupid things like that, that is absurd. That is something we would never, ever expose her to. He has shown no desire — when he calls, he makes sure he calls at times when she’s not visiting. There’s been no contact, there will be no contact.
“Those are the kind of things that get under my skin a little bit. The rest of it is just what it is.”
 

Hyde Park Factor

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Myt1 said:
So, my disagreement with her formation and characterization of the issue is evidence of enabling domestic violence? Good to know.
 
The straw man was your characterization of my disagreement with the logic of her argument, something that I do here every day to posters of both genders, with calling her a bitch. It's wrong, tired, and lazy, and unfortunately par for the course with your posts. You have little else to offer, so you retreat to what you know.

Moreover, the notion that I only disagreed with her because I missed her point is ridiculous. Some of us actually do direct our passion and energy at something that can make a difference about the issue.
 
I don't think, nor did I mean to imply that you enable domestic violence any more than any other member of the general public.  We are all members of the same society that has glorified macho behavior in men while constantly objectifying women.  Perhaps it wasn't your intent, but the tone of what you said has a very familiar ring to it to any woman who has ever been on the receiving end of something along the lines of, "She knows her stuff, but... <insert insult here>".  I called the statement out only because it seemed to buttress her broader point about DV being a societal problem that is so ingrained that we don't even notice the subtle roots of it anymore.  Again, I wasn't casting you in any different light than any of the rest of us.
 
My apologies for misunderstanding, but I absolutely wasn't being lazy in my response.  
 

Ed Hillel

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Hoplite said:
Maybe I've been living under a rock, but I was surprised by this poll result. I was aware of the terrible actions of Remy's son, but was unaware of anything that Remy has said or done that would be condemning for him. I am genuinely curious, has Remy done or said anything related to his son that warrants him being fired/asked to leave or is this more of a guilt/embarrassment by association thing?
 
No.
 
However, Foulkey has hated Jerry Remy for a while now, so this murder presented a really awesome opportunity for him and people like him to blame him for his 33 year old son's actions. Larry Bird was a shitty father and apparently his son tried to run over his ex-girlfriend with a car, but nobody here has been ripping his poster off their wall because of it. I guess maybe it's different because Bird handled the situation in a better manner or something? He also completely ignored his daughter's existence, but that's cool. I'm not trying to say one way to parent is right and the other is wrong, but acting like it's a black and white issue is ridiculous, and saying he is "wrong" for not retiring of stepping down based on this incident is absurd. There are plenty of pro athletes that are shitty parents, but their children don't choose to murder people. I guess they're ok? Should we create a risk factor-scale associated with parenting and base our decisions to support certain athletes on that? 
 
Now, does that mean I want Jerry Remy in the booth this year? Not necessarily. I would like to see what he can bring and has left. If things don't go well, and people aren't enjoying him, replace him. If people still enjoy listening to him, why should he step down or be fired? Not that this is an acceptable reason to keep him in and of itself, but Remy is still going to be better than most of the local color guys, as many of us out of towners should be able to attest to. The whole notion that he should be fired based on Jared's actions, however, is really naseauting at this point.
 

Foulkey Reese

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However, Foulkey has hated Jerry Remy for a while now, so this murder presented a really awesome opportunity for him and people like him to blame him for his 33 year old son's actions. 
 
I have?
 
I've defended Remy and Don's shtick here a ton of times. 
 

redsahx

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Nobody needs complete moral certainty to be astonished by the wreckage of the Remy family. Would you like to offer any specific rebuttals or examples of how you would have behaved differently
Not addressed to me but I wanted to try and answer this because I think for a lot of people this is the fork in the road that decides what side of the discussion they end up on.

You would like to think that if roles were flipped, the Remys would not beg their daughter to stand by a steroid addled hulking beast who manhandles her and has a history of doing
it to others. So of course I think all reasonable people assume that we would have had enough info to recognize when our son is a threat to others and prioritize protecting the innocent. Understandably some people have no desire to cut the Remys some slack because of their failings here.

As far as other aspects of the story though, countless posters have implied that the Remys parenting must somehow have lead to the violent tendencies, which is a conventional wisdom I am not comfortable embracing. There are too many other potential variables when it comes to raising kids, such as family histories of depression and behavioral disorderes. I don't know how much is appropriate to throw at their feet.

I also do not see how it was excessive enabling for Jerry to set his kid up with a job as many have implied, because I think any parent would want their child doing something other than sitting at home unemployed. I also think I would have provided my son with strong legal representation if I had such resources, as would almost any parent (Note: I am talking about the prior incidents in his life, not this one). Regardless of whether or not he should have seen more time inside a jail cell earlier in his life, I can't fault parents for not wanting to simply let the book be thrown at their son Anyone who knows anything about our prison system is unlikley to trust it with the care of their child. Indications are that Jared had been getting professional help and attention going back to high school, so the Remys appear to have been trying to address his issues, and weren't ignoring them. I think I would have made it perfectly clear to a son of mine how much disgust I had for violence towards women, but we don't know the extent of such conversations the Remys might have had with Jared, or what difference it makes with such people.

During the final few years Jared had managed to avoid run-ins with the law, so the Remys were probably able to convince themselves that he was finally starting to grow up, and that Jennifer and Arianna were stabilizing influences on him. In hindsight this was wishful thinking, but I can't work up outrage towards parents for wanting to believe the best in their child and the instinct to rationalize ignoring the worst. There is plenty I believe I would have done better, but I have not been able to conclude that Jerry Remy is a uniquely horrible parent whom I can no longer stand to look at or listen to. I think he and his wife botched the handling of a very difficult son.
 

Myt1

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Hyde Park Factor said:
I don't think, nor did I mean to imply that you enable domestic violence any more than any other member of the general public.  We are all members of the same society that has glorified macho behavior in men while constantly objectifying women.  Perhaps it wasn't your intent, but the tone of what you said has a very familiar ring to it to any woman who has ever been on the receiving end of something along the lines of, "She knows her stuff, but... <insert insult here>".  I called the statement out only because it seemed to buttress her broader point about DV being a societal problem that is so ingrained that we don't even notice the subtle roots of it anymore.  Again, I wasn't casting you in any different light than any of the rest of us.
 
My apologies for misunderstanding, but I absolutely wasn't being lazy in my response.  
We can probably craft a corollary to Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to misogyny that which is adequately explained by gender non-specific impatience with humankind. ;)
 

Ed Hillel

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Foulkey Reese said:
I have?
 
I've defended Remy and Don's shtick here a ton of times. 
Apologies if I have mislabeled you then. I seem to recall many issues you have had, maybe in game threads to be fair. Maybe it was others. That aside, I stand by everything else. I do not understand this entire thing; it's not like there was any easy answer for him. Beyond that, I try to avoid thinking too much about the parenting skills of athletes, especially those on my most favorite teams.
 

SoxVindaloo

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vadertime said:
I don't want him to be.  Recent events not withstanding it has more to do that 99% of the time him and Orsillo are talking about anything but the game, or having a laughing fit.  Recent events are only the icing on the cake.
 
Maybe as a kid I was blind to their faults but I loved it when Sean McDonugh and Bob Montgomery were the announcers.
 
 
Doctuh said:
I just think there are people who can do a better job in that space in that booth. I would have voted the same four years ago.
 
This. He sucks in the booth nowadays and that would be the main reason to want him gone for me.  Enabling a homicidal maniac time and time again is probably a secondary concern. I don't think Eck is the best by any means but I enjoy the games way more when Eck has done them recently.
 

Hoplite

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Oct 26, 2013
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Reverend said:
 
There's a thread on this in the media forum--it's probably better to read that than to relitigate* the matter here.
 
 
* :fonz:
 
I did, the "worst" thing I could find is that Jerry Remy paid for a lawyer and a psychiatrist for his son and is now saying that he realizes he enabled him but doesn't know what he could have done differently. I imagine most people would behave similarly, doesn't seem like it's worth firing him over. That's why I asked the question, so I could better understand the thought process behind firing him.