John’s quote here got me thinking - do you want John Henry to sell the Red Sox? I could see a change in ownership going either way. Some teams have terrible owners. What say you, should John Henry sell the Red Sox?
Do You Want John Henry To Sell The Red Sox?
- Thread starter McSweeny
- Start date
What do you mean by either way? Is there a chance they can finish in 6th place in the division if they sell?
This feels like one of those questions you can't confidently answer unless you have some idea of what sort of owner you might get if Henry sold the team. Of course, if someone thinks "Anybody but Henry," then the leap into the dark makes perfect sense. But without any good idea of what sort of outfit might buy the team, I'd be inclined to say that the devil I know is preferable to the one I don't know.
No. If there's an option to take all the Sox fans who have been endlessly whinging about ownership and fire them into the sun that's the way to go.
@themactavish beat me to it.
If some billionaire with New England ties, who loves baseball, cares about the fate of the Red Sox, and has the knowledge and/or ability to assemble competent baseball ops leadership, is in line to buy the team, I'm intrigued.
Otherwise, I'll take the devil I know. I've been pretty excited by the first ~15 years of the Henry reign. The past few years, not so much. But unlike some, I'm not yet convinced they represent a new, permanent way of doing business, as opposed to a temporary (albeit protracted) deviation.
It's an interesting question. I've long scoffed at the "Henry should sell the team" crowd, but I will say that while I'm understanding of the trend of some teams reassessing how they chose to build teams I've been discourage by some moves/non moves made under Bloom. IMO, to date Breslow seems to be moving in the right direction, BUT I'm more than a bit baffled that another starting pitcher has not been brought in, especially since the Gioito injury. Initially I wanted to see a complimentary piece added to Giolito and Bello to round out the top 3 spots in the rotation, but only if that player would be around for another 2 seasons. My concern at the time being that if LG opted out and another pitcher was only brought in for a year we might be faced with the same rotation concerns heading into next season. Since the injury I'm more concerned about a limited number of starters who may not be up to the task and the domino effect that leads to the overuse/strain on the bullpen. All of that said, I understand the fact that there is time to augment the staff via the few remaining FA's and pitchers who may be released in the coming week or two even if it only alleviates the concern for numbers. While I'm not anywhere near the point of calling for new ownership, I'm VERY interested in seeing how this season's trade deadline and the next off season are approached. Until then I will trust the process and remind myself that I don't know what I don't know.
Edited to add that while I'm understanding that everything about the team doesn't need to be available for public consumption I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with the frequent inconsistency in the messaging to the fans. Stop stepping on rakes. Stop embarrassing yourselves. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Don't be afraid to use unpopular phrases like "rebuild". Shoot straight, stop talking and acting like politicians and realize that you already hold the "office". Address us clearly, speak and act with the confidence that will give us confidence in you.
Last edited:
I voted a reluctant no. The first 15 years were about as good as you could expect. Since then, something has happened in their strategic planning that has weakened their priority commitment to the Red Sox. This increasing diversification and dilution in equity ownership, however, modest is for me not a good harbinger. I originally thought that Red Sox ownership reflected heartfelt priorities for a baseball owner. I’m now beginning to think it’s just another financial asset with diversion of cash flow to other enterprises. Kennedys meandering statements about monetizing the Fenway experience are not heartening.. but as others have said, better, the devil you know.
I voted yes, it appears the ownership group is milking the sox as a cash cow for other projects, on the surface at least. That said I wonder what their internal projections for TV revenue look like, Henry is a finance guys after all, hard to imagine they haven't modeled out various long term scenarios including an acceleration of cord cutting and are planning payroll accordingly.
I voted no. I'll take four World Series championships and 12 postseason appearances in his first 19 years as more indicative of the "real" John Henry than the frustration of four of the last five years. If we're still in the current situation five or six years from now, then sure, sell. But I still believe that he's shown that he can and wants to own a team that competes at the highest levels. I take the last few years as the exception, not the rule.
No, just not win a World Series (much less four) like the non-Henry owners of the last century.
This is nearly exactly what I was going to say. Take the devil we know over ending up with a McCourt/Moreno/Angelos type
I voted yes, to sell. They have assembled a team missing a few stalwarts from last year, and replaced them with lower budget type players. Giolito the exception. I have a feeling this new business model will be carried forward in 2025, where they try to sign as many as three new pitchers by trying to play the waiting game again. The Cooper Criswells and Isiah Campbells will again become the new stars of the pitching parade.
if these front office standards continue, at some critical point TV subscriptions, ticket sales, moving memorabilia will be uncomfortable for the FO bottom line as this pattern continues.
if these front office standards continue, at some critical point TV subscriptions, ticket sales, moving memorabilia will be uncomfortable for the FO bottom line as this pattern continues.
I'd like him to sell all the other teams FSG has bought. Things seemed to be better when the Red Sox had 100% of his sports owning attention.
I think it’s time to sell. They did incredible things together but now the team is kind of on autopilot with them (which I don’t really blame them for).
It would be exciting to have some billionaire buy it and make it their personal pet project to splash some cash and see what happens.
It would be exciting to have some billionaire buy it and make it their personal pet project to splash some cash and see what happens.
Even the big spenders... what is so great about those guys? Big contracts are cathartic in the offseason but i don't see their refusal to buy big as the lack of a plan.
I'm not really sure how to vote on this - because I'm really not sure what John Henry's thought process is right now.
Reading the tea leaves, I half expect he might be preparing to sell the team in a year or two. Ownership seems keen on avoiding long-term contracts at the moment, and if you're looking to sell a team, you probably don't want to be doling out 7+ year, $200M+ contracts, as they'd be seen as liabilities. If he's looking to sell, then I vote "yes, just get it over with already, so we can move on".
If, in the worst case scenario, the new philosophy is - as Sam Kennedy put it - to sell the Fenway experience (and not so much a competitive team) - then I'd rather have them sell. And if that's their new philosophy, to field sub-mediocre teams because "people will pay hundreds to go to Fenway regardless" - then I hope it fails and blows up in their face in spectacular fashion. Oakland-esque ticket sales, and minuscule NESN ratings.
If this is a small detour on the road to being perennial contenders again, then fine. I'll ride it out. But it's been five years since this team was relevant, and they're still a worse team than they were in 2019. If this song and dance continues indefinitely into 2025... 2026... then a lot more people are going to start losing interest in this ballclub.
Reading the tea leaves, I half expect he might be preparing to sell the team in a year or two. Ownership seems keen on avoiding long-term contracts at the moment, and if you're looking to sell a team, you probably don't want to be doling out 7+ year, $200M+ contracts, as they'd be seen as liabilities. If he's looking to sell, then I vote "yes, just get it over with already, so we can move on".
If, in the worst case scenario, the new philosophy is - as Sam Kennedy put it - to sell the Fenway experience (and not so much a competitive team) - then I'd rather have them sell. And if that's their new philosophy, to field sub-mediocre teams because "people will pay hundreds to go to Fenway regardless" - then I hope it fails and blows up in their face in spectacular fashion. Oakland-esque ticket sales, and minuscule NESN ratings.
If this is a small detour on the road to being perennial contenders again, then fine. I'll ride it out. But it's been five years since this team was relevant, and they're still a worse team than they were in 2019. If this song and dance continues indefinitely into 2025... 2026... then a lot more people are going to start losing interest in this ballclub.
That would include a lot of fans who fund the team, so a really bad idea.
They insist they're not thinking about selling the team, and I tend to believe them. The Red Sox are a huge component of the ever-expanding FSG empire.
I agree with this.
I would add the billion+ they are going to invest in the Fenway area in real estate makes it really unlikely to me that they are even thinking of selling.
Its blasphemy, but if Fenway cannot generate the revenue they need to spend at the level they should be spending a new ballpark should be considered. This won't happen because of the development that is going to be done around the current site but if their revenues are maxed you have to find a way to change that and increase them.
The risks of selling are really, really high. High enough that with even a mediocre owner, you're probably better off standing pat.
Think about the possible buyers the last time round. Dolan and McCourt would have been unqualified disasters--I think we have enough evidence to back that. Prentice's bid was never real, but he's a right wing nut and chair's an org that the SPLC calls a Hate Group. That leaves Joe O'Donnell. Maybe he would have been fine, but the extent to which the Boston old boys network was all in on him doesn't fill me with hope.
Keeping Henry but kicking the shit out of him for not doing better seems like the safest option.
Think about the possible buyers the last time round. Dolan and McCourt would have been unqualified disasters--I think we have enough evidence to back that. Prentice's bid was never real, but he's a right wing nut and chair's an org that the SPLC calls a Hate Group. That leaves Joe O'Donnell. Maybe he would have been fine, but the extent to which the Boston old boys network was all in on him doesn't fill me with hope.
Keeping Henry but kicking the shit out of him for not doing better seems like the safest option.
Getting rid of Fenway would be an idiotic business move. Because Fenway is a tourist draw, they draw even when the team is terrible. Build a new toilet style stadium and there's no reason to go when they finish last yet again.
Hence the development. The Fenway "experience" is being expanded beyond the team.
Fenway can generate plenty of revenue when you fill it. Right now there are still Opening Day tickets available, so filling it is going to be a very rare occurrence this season.
Would not even think of it as a question at least until seeing how the next few years play out. 2024 is what it is and I feel I understand what they are trying to do for better or worse. If next year the message is the same, and they are pushing budgets and the Fenway experience while free agents are signing deals in the universe of reasonableness with other teams, then I might be curious enough to contemplate the question.
The Sox could definitely do worse with different owners. People have highlighted that risk.
But - and I know this sounds crazy but please stay with me - what if they are better? Like what if the acquirer is ok taking risks and spending money to try to win. I know full well money guarantees nothing and that there are other risks that come from running a high payroll. At the very least we might get to see more top end talent playing for Boston.
Or maybe the new people will come in, make a mess of things and finish down the standings. Living with that outcome is kind of where we are now.
But - and I know this sounds crazy but please stay with me - what if they are better? Like what if the acquirer is ok taking risks and spending money to try to win. I know full well money guarantees nothing and that there are other risks that come from running a high payroll. At the very least we might get to see more top end talent playing for Boston.
Or maybe the new people will come in, make a mess of things and finish down the standings. Living with that outcome is kind of where we are now.
I view John Henry that way Henry has viewed some of his most successful GMs: Tremendously appreciative for all he’s accomplished, but it’s time to move on.
There would be risks, certainly, but the cost of acquiring the team would likely eliminate the worst case scenarios. No one who can afford to buy the Red Sox is then going to nickel and dime the team.
There would be risks, certainly, but the cost of acquiring the team would likely eliminate the worst case scenarios. No one who can afford to buy the Red Sox is then going to nickel and dime the team.
Just because they may not nickel and dime a team doesn't mean that they can't or won't field a shitty or ineffective team. There is zero proof that any prospective new owner might not mismanage the team or use it to prop up other ventures. You know, sort of like the current ownership has been accused of doing.
I would like more information about this option. Is this a Pay Per Kick deal? Or does it come with a ticket Purchase?
Any ticket purchase, or do you have to buy Home Plate Pavilion or EMC/Dell whatever they are called now, seats?
The Boston Red Sox, according to Forbes, are in the top five most profitable teams and also in the top 5 most valuable teams. They’re the only team on both those lists… It’s a cash cow. Why would they sell?
I voted no, unless JWH 1.0 happens to be available. Something has definitely changed for 2.0 but I’ll keep a weather eye out on the budget over the next couple years regardless.
I don’t see many thinking they will, but it’s not impossible there’s another use for the 5billion dollars (or whatever) you would get from the sale. Jai alai?
Last edited:
Also, the question isn't will or should they sell. Its asking what we want. And apparently we want more of the same, pretty overwhelmingly thus far.
I don’t want Henry to sell the team. I’m worried about the plan after he dies. It would be a nightmare if Redbird Capital ended up with majority ownership.
Agreed. I’d like to see if the ownership can transition this to their improved model.
(This issue is about provincialism, pure and simple: “spend money you carpetbagger, or we’ll run you out of town”).
Exactly. If Fenway isn’t generating income it’s because the on field talent is horseshit. I would think it would be worse in a new stadium. A new stadium and this version of the Sox wouldn’t draw shit.
I don’t believe the “Fenway Experience” includes the team…. Or it sure doesn’t seem like it.
Yes. I appreciate what he did with the team in the 2000s. I think something is fundamentally wrong with how they operate though. Or maybe it's the Boston ecopshere. I don't think it's normal to have an affluent and devoted fan base who is guaranteed to pay high prices and nearly sell out every game and just be as kind of apathetic to the desires of the fan base. I don't care that he didn't spend this year. I do care that the team is all but guaranteed to be top 3 in revenue is no longer competitive for free agents, whether their own or not. I don't care that they finished in last. I do care that the team has been directionless for half a decade.
And I do think there's something to the (what feels like should be sports talk radio) chat about the FO either currently being financially hamstrung or just not being spread too thin.
They don't need to spend like the Dodgers. But they can't spend like the Padres/Mariners while charging what they do for every and any part of the experience.
And I do think there's something to the (what feels like should be sports talk radio) chat about the FO either currently being financially hamstrung or just not being spread too thin.
They don't need to spend like the Dodgers. But they can't spend like the Padres/Mariners while charging what they do for every and any part of the experience.
Yes. It’s being run as a private equity investment. I wish it were run by a fan at a loss due to wanting to win.
I don’t want him to sell but my god is this a fucking stupid post. Get a grip dude
Generally the answer should be championships and the Red Sox have provided 4 since Henry took over which is better than any other team. The team has mostly been a disappointment since Mookie was traded but overall the championships have been more than could be expected given the prior team history
Not a chance, I'm good. Love the team, excited about the team, happy for the championships. Thanks, John.
And I think that what most of us want now is some honest communication from Henry et al concerning his vision for the near future, coupled with actions that promote that vision. If Henry can do that, I'm glad to give him the benefit of the glories of the past 20 years.
I don’t want him to sell the team. I just want him to do a better job of caring about it. If that seems flippant, consider that when Henry & Co first bought the Red Sox, they invested in its success, and they seemed to actually take pride in both the developments they were doing to Fenway Park, and in the results that the team was generating.
Lately, I get the sense that that level of mental investment is sorely lacking. The only way I would want them to sell the team is if a buyer was identified that actually cared about the results because they were a Boston Red Sox fan in the same way that Robert Kraft is a New England Patriots fan.
I'm sure someone else has made these points more eloquently than I have, but that’s what I feel.
Lately, I get the sense that that level of mental investment is sorely lacking. The only way I would want them to sell the team is if a buyer was identified that actually cared about the results because they were a Boston Red Sox fan in the same way that Robert Kraft is a New England Patriots fan.
I'm sure someone else has made these points more eloquently than I have, but that’s what I feel.
Someone will be starting an equivalent thread about Kraft over in BbtL any minute now.
Sometimes I feel like every response in this thread should require the following beginning:
”I am __ years old and I have firsthand memories of the following Red Sox owner(s). (mark all that apply)
__ Fenway Sports Group
__ Yawkey Trust
__ JRY Corp.
__ Jean Yawkey
__ Tom Yawkey”