Do the Celtics have an Image problem?

bakahump

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So watching the national broadcaster (Jackson and VGundy and VanG and his partner) I have noticed they dont have much love for the celtics. Individually or as a team. They dont "Fawn" over them like other teams or players.
Last night they DID say nice things about the Celts. (Great game by JT suffocating D). But not the extent that they do about a Jimmy Buckets 40 pt game or the Miami first qtr in game 3.
Hell they were playing Miami up for being "Tough" when they ALMOST blew game 3. Sure some credit is due....but you could mention the meltdown that allowed the Celts to get to 1 in a negative way.

And not just Miami. Bucks and Brooklyn also seemed to get way more positive coverage while the Celts didnt.

Its Like watching Mike and Scal but by a National crew and opposite. And you expect the homers to be ....well homers. Whereas you expect National Crews to be over the top complimentary to Both teams.

Am I wrong? Am I just too soft skinned? Is it star power (Giannis, Durant and Jimmy) just getting more love?
Just seems odd.
 

joe dokes

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So watching the national broadcaster (Jackson and VGundy and VanG and his partner) I have noticed they dont have much love for the celtics. Individually or as a team. They dont "Fawn" over them like other teams or players.
Last night they DID say nice things about the Celts. (Great game by JT suffocating D). But not the extent that they do about a Jimmy Buckets 40 pt game or the Miami first qtr in game 3.
Hell they were playing Miami up for being "Tough" when they ALMOST blew game 3. Sure some credit is due....but you could mention the meltdown that allowed the Celts to get to 1 in a negative way.

And not just Miami. Bucks and Brooklyn also seemed to get way more positive coverage while the Celts didnt.

Its Like watching Mike and Scal but by a National crew and opposite. And you expect the homers to be ....well homers. Whereas you expect National Crews to be over the top complimentary to Both teams.

Am I wrong? Am I just too soft skinned? Is it star power (Giannis, Durant and Jimmy) just getting more love?
Just seems odd.
I think it is the star power. (and perhaps your skin).
Also, Dont lump Manny, Moe and Jack on your TV with *any* other analysts think. I think Barkley, for example, *loves* the Celtics. (I also think JVG loves Marcus Smart. A milllion players can score lots of points. But there's only a few players like Smart. He sees that).
 

Everetts Dinosaurs

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Its impossible to watch coverage of your team and feel like the coverage is fair. Ultimately: who cares?

I'd also argue the premise that a pair of horrendous broadcasters not fawning over your star is the equivalent of an 'Image Problem'. More likely explanation: bad broadcasters are bad.
 

SoxJox

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I mute it and watch and analyze from my own lay perspective. Occasionally, I'll unmute just to see how loud the crowd is with "DEFENSE, DEFENSE, DEFENSE..." I can't stand either of the VG's. no matter their chops.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Listener bias. Mark Jackson has been fawning over Tatum. Conversely, Mark Jackson was ripping Butler last night and the total team effort from the Heat ("unacceptable").

As a listener, I think it's easy to tune out what's being said while things are going good, and on the other end when your team is losing and things are going poorly you are more likely to be tuned into and annoyed by what is being said.
 

Spelunker

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Everyone feels that way about national broadcasters. I find the "they hate us" critiques in gamethreads amusing at best, kind of flabbergasting at worse, because I just don't see it that way - it feels pretty neutral to me most of the time. And I gauratnee that if you went to, I dunno, the Sons of Vin Baker messageboard they'd be having the exact same emotional reaction and wondering why Breen sounds so sad when *their* team hits a three.
 

scottyno

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Unless we think there are players watching the coverage who don't want to play for the Celtics because announcers don't like them, or refs watching who make calls differently because announcers don't like them then who the fuck cares really.
 

snowmanny

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My sense is that the Celtics get a lot of respect but that it is mitigated by the fact that all of America hates Boston fans. I don’t get it because generally we are delightful and hilarious and happy to educate.
 

RorschachsMask

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I feel like this has changed over the last couple of months. Both Van Gundy’s think well the Celtics are an elite team, stacked with talent. Mark Jackson has been blown away by Tatum all series, but has criticized him when called for. Jaylen has gotten a ton of praise, Smart/Al/Rob as well.

Nba writers are extremely high on this team, especially the nerds (term of endearment for me). The old school hoopers love them, they’ve been the overwhelming pick to win the last two series.

As for the star power thing, Tatum has been the 3rd most watched player on social media in these playoffs, and is almost a lock to be named 1st team all nba when they are announced tonight.
 

Euclis20

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I'm not getting this sense at all. Tons of writers, analysts, other media members, former players etc seem to like this team and have fully bought into them. Just at a glance, ESPN writers predicted them to win every series (11-10 vs the Nets, 14-6 vs the Bucks, 16-4 vs the Heat). Just about everyone, even those who think the Heat will win this series, seems to think that the Celtics are the better team. Maybe that's allowed the Heat to get a bit of the plucky underdog support (an odd look from the 1 seed, but whatever), but not since before the ASB have I felt like the Celtics weren't getting the love (nor did they deserve it before then).
 

Return of the Dewey

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Just think about how other fans (especially Lakers fans) felt during the 80s when Dick Stockton and Tommy Heinsohn did the Finals. They fawned over Larry Bird like no other.
 

Cellar-Door

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Much like officiating, every team thinks the national announcers hate them. In this series for example, Heat fans were complaining that everything is about the Celtics, if the Heat win it's because the Celtics didn't play well, if the Heat lose it's because the Celtics are just too good.
 

jtn46

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Its impossible to watch coverage of your team and feel like the coverage is fair. Ultimately: who cares?

I'd also argue the premise that a pair of horrendous broadcasters not fawning over your star is the equivalent of an 'Image Problem'. More likely explanation: bad broadcasters are bad.
That’s one of the best booths in sports. I do agree with your first point.
 

Erik Hanson's Hook

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Good observation, but it's not the Celtics, necessarily. It's a Boston thing. We've won so much since 2001 that cities that are starving for a championship are annoyed.

And yes the Celtics and Bruins should have at least one or two more.
 

djbayko

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If you read Sox/Celtics/Patriots game threads during nationally televised games, some SoSHers are constantly making this same type of complaint no matter which team / announcers it is. So is it really a Celtics problem, or is it some really big anti-Boston conspiracy SoSH has uncovered? Nah, it's just personal confirmation bias. People tend to forget when the announcers do say something good, and they really take notice when they don't. I never really hear it myself, so I always chuckle at these comments.

Pretty sure, people at the Sons of Gregg Jeffries and Sons of Pete Incaviglia make similar complaints. They can't all be true.
 

Just a bit outside

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The problem with the ABC crew is they never shut up. If you talk nonstop for 3 straight hours you are bound to say good, bad, and inane stuff in every broadcast. It would be so much better if they only talked about half as much as they do.
 

NomarsFool

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Honestly, I really didn't think so. I thought their coverage has been pretty even, in my opinion. The only part I would say was - not necessarily biased - but a little odd was praising the Heat for blowing a huge lead and eventually winning. I mean, had the Celtics pulled out that game, the Heat's collapse would have been one of the most epic chokes in the playoffs. So, while I'd heavily fault the Celtics for putting themselves in that terrible position to begin with, the fact that they clawed back to within one is, in my opinion, more noteworthy than the fact that the Heat hung on to win the game.
 

Euclis20

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Honestly, I really didn't think so. I thought their coverage has been pretty even, in my opinion. The only part I would say was - not necessarily biased - but a little odd was praising the Heat for blowing a huge lead and eventually winning. I mean, had the Celtics pulled out that game, the Heat's collapse would have been one of the most epic chokes in the playoffs. So, while I'd heavily fault the Celtics for putting themselves in that terrible position to begin with, the fact that they clawed back to within one is, in my opinion, more noteworthy than the fact that the Heat hung on to win the game.
I'd agree, were it not for the fact that they were missing Butler for the entire second half. Had Boston won, that fact would rightly have been in the first paragraph of any story written about the comeback/collapse. They hung on to win without their best player, and we're past the point of moral victories and embarrassing losses.
 

NomarsFool

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Fair point. Anyway, I feel like the praise for both teams has been fairly equal.

I will add one more odd note - and this is probably just them trying to make conversation in a fairly boring game - I thought the "The Celtics are going to regret letting Duncan Robinson get some buckets" was a little strange. They are probably just trying to add drama to a rather undramatic finish, but I'd be willing to bet not a single member of the Celtics staff last night said to themselves "Man, I'm so upset that Duncan Robinson hit some shots in garbage time!"
 

Cellar-Door

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Fair point. Anyway, I feel like the praise for both teams has been fairly equal.

I will add one more odd note - and this is probably just them trying to make conversation in a fairly boring game - I thought the "The Celtics are going to regret letting Duncan Robinson get some buckets" was a little strange. They are probably just trying to add drama to a rather undramatic finish, but I'd be willing to bet not a single member of the Celtics staff last night said to themselves "Man, I'm so upset that Duncan Robinson hit some shots in garbage time!"
That was selling the series. Basically "well if Robinson gets on a heater here it might transfer to game 5 and we'll have a good game instead of another beatdown.
 

benhogan

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There's a NY bias with NBA broadcasts. Jeff & Stan Van Gully, Mark Jackson, Mike Breen, Hubie Brown, Marv Albert & Brothers, Doris Burke, Ian Eagle, Kenny Smith, Steven A Smith, Richard Jefferson all have past NY ties.

as we all know NY/Boston sports are oil/water
 

Buck Showalter

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There's a NY bias with NBA broadcasts. Jeff & Stan Van Gully, Mark Jackson, Mike Breen, Hubie Brown, Marv Albert & Brothers, Doris Burke, Ian Eagle, Kenny Smith, Steven A Smith, Richard Jefferson all have past NY ties.

as we all know NY/Boston sports are oil/water
I thought Doris had New England ties?

Also - perhaps Bill Simmons, KOC, Jackie Mac, Ryen Russillo create a Boston bias in the eyes of others.
 

grimshaw

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Everyone feels that way about national broadcasters. I find the "they hate us" critiques in gamethreads amusing at best, kind of flabbergasting at worse, because I just don't see it that way - it feels pretty neutral to me most of the time. And I gauratnee that if you went to, I dunno, the Sons of Vin Baker messageboard they'd be having the exact same emotional reaction and wondering why Breen sounds so sad when *their* team hits a three.
+1. It's a little bit less annoying than hearing fans complaining about one-sided officiating. I get zero sense that the announcers are biased against the Celtics as a neutral fan.

I would think the more difficult part of the job as a national announcer is to not get caught up by the home crowd. The only national announcer I can think of who clearly wasn't a fan of one of our teams was Tim McCarver and he had some personal bad experiences as a player IIRC.
 

benhogan

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I thought Doris had New England ties?

Also - perhaps Bill Simmons, KOC, Jackie Mac, Ryen Russillo create a Boston bias in the eyes of others.
Doris worked for MSG/Knicks/Liberty and grew up in NJ, she went to PC

Bill Simmons is a massive New England homer. BUT he doesn't really do the day of reporting to the national audience which is what we are discussing here.

Most of the ones I mentioned have been doing NBA national broadcasts, color, play by play halftime reporting over the last 20yrs
 

SoFloSoxFan

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So watching the national broadcaster (Jackson and VGundy and VanG and his partner) I have noticed they dont have much love for the celtics. Individually or as a team. They dont "Fawn" over them like other teams or players.
Didn't JVG say last night that he thought the Celtics were the odds on favorite to win it all, and that while its a slim margin, he has felt that way for months? I'm quite sure he said that.
 

RorschachsMask

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Didn't JVG say last night that he thought the Celtics were the odds on favorite to win it all, and that while its a slim margin, he has felt that way for months? I'm quite sure he said that.
He’s been saying it for at least a month, even longer for his brother.
 

Auger34

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Didn't JVG say last night that he thought the Celtics were the odds on favorite to win it all, and that while its a slim margin, he has felt that way for months? I'm quite sure he said that.
He did and Mark Jackson scoffed at him…

The only person that I feel is legitimately anti-Boston is Mike Breen. I sometimes feel that way about Hubie Brown too but that may just be that he talks so much he ends up throwing in digs at both teams
 

wibi

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My sense is that the Celtics get a lot of respect but that it is mitigated by the fact that all of America hates Boston fans. I don’t get it because generally we are delightful and hilarious and happy to educate.
LOL ... Have you met the average PATS fan in the last 15 years? GTFO ... The average fan is about as good as the Yankees ring guy from the late 90s early 2000s
 

wibi

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Good observation, but it's not the Celtics, necessarily. It's a Boston thing. We've won so much since 2001 that cities that are starving for a championship are annoyed.

And yes the Celtics and Bruins should have at least one or two more.
Not annoyed. Boston fans have become the Yankee's fans they used to hate with a passion
 

ElUno20

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Hell no. The media has been blowing the celtics non stop this season. And tatum especially. It's awful and makes podcasts, tv, etc unwatchable
 

Over Guapo Grande

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The only part that I took a minor squabble with was in pre-game, STEVEN A SMITH (why does he have to shout everything?) said "You know that Boston is going to get all the whistles tonight". So, when Boston went into halftime with JT hitting more FT's then the entire Heat starting 5 scored, it was "SEE I TOLD YOU!"-- implying a bias/rigged game. Rather than Boston just being more aggressive, and the next legal screen that Miami sets will be its first (I swear Bam could be a lead blocker for the Dolphins -- he moves people 1 or 2 yards up court on every screen)
 

NomarsFool

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I thought it was interesting that in game 1 they kept showing a “highlight” of Bam throwing his shoulder into Jaylen to knock him out of his legal guarding position so that Bam could score. They have showed that highlight in some of the following games as well. Like “Look how awesome Bam is for committing offensive fouls that don’t get called!”
 

Kliq

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I think the Celtics have gotten a ton of praise and respect from announcers.

I don't like the Breen/JVG/Jackson crew, but they have been adequate this series. The only thing that I didn't like was Breen just couldn't get a grip on Monday over what was happening in the game. He was just astounded that the Heat couldn't score and wouldn't be quiet about it.
 

Kliq

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SVG also brought GW to national attention and suggested that GW might be DPOY one day.
SVG and his PBP guy (either Harlan or Eagle, can't remember) were all over GW in the Milwaukee series. Talking about how nobody in the NBA can defend like him; he's perfect for guarding Giannis; just totally over the top in their praise of him; it was really something.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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SVG and his PBP guy (either Harlan or Eagle, can't remember) were all over GW in the Milwaukee series. Talking about how nobody in the NBA can defend like him; he's perfect for guarding Giannis; just totally over the top in their praise of him; it was really something.
Think it was Brian Anderson.

If GW ever wins DPOY I will happily buy SVG a pizza and a beer anywhere in BOS.
 

reggiecleveland

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Everyone feels that way about national broadcasters. I find the "they hate us" critiques in gamethreads amusing at best, kind of flabbergasting at worse, because I just don't see it that way - it feels pretty neutral to me most of the time. And I gauratnee that if you went to, I dunno, the Sons of Vin Baker messageboard they'd be having the exact same emotional reaction and wondering why Breen sounds so sad when *their* team hits a three.
It does annoy me in game threads.
Mccarver hates the Sox
Buck hates Brady
Breen cheers for Bucks /Nets

It's ridiculous. These national broadcasters jump on the bandwagon. If you win they praise you. We get used to watching biased announcing so neutral announcing hurts our feelings. In MLB the blue Jay's announcers are the only ones close to neutral since tsn/Sportsnet policy is to act like a national network.

Maybe grow up and realize your team is in the playoffs so you get a national crew and you don't have Scal or Eck cheering with you.
 

snowmanny

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LOL ... Have you met the average PATS fan in the last 15 years? GTFO ... The average fan is about as good as the Yankees ring guy from the late 90s early 2000s
I disagree. We are mountains of fun. And empathic. For example, I like you so I am withholding all the usual gifs, for now.
 

bakahump

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I thought it was interesting that in game 1 they kept showing a “highlight” of Bam throwing his shoulder into Jaylen to knock him out of his legal guarding position so that Bam could score. They have showed that highlight in some of the following games as well. Like “Look how awesome Bam is for committing offensive fouls that don’t get called!”
@NomarsFool really crystalizes what bothers me. The Bam "highlights" that are fouls. The Giannis non charges. And instead of saying "JT did the same thing 1:12 ago and got a foul" it becomes a "How awesome player X is for doing that (and not getting called)!". Maybe its me expecting NBA National announcers to criticize NBA Refs (and by extension the NBA and its game) is asking for the impossible/improbable.
 

wibi

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I disagree. We are mountains of fun. And empathic. For example, I like you so I am withholding all the usual gifs, for now.
Most people here are above average when it coms to their fandom so the sample is skewed. But venture into the wild and you find a very different breed of fan
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I disagree. We are mountains of fun. And empathic. For example, I like you so I am withholding all the usual gifs, for now.
I don't like the announcing for this series because their respective shticks are terrible rather than biased however your posts in this thread are excellent.

In my experience as an out of market person, Boston sports fans are indeed disliked or perceived as annoying as hell. I simply don't understand it. Who would not want to hang with us, hear our takes informed by rooting for all of our successful teams and bask in the glow of a fanbase that acts like its been there before? Its unfathomable how we got here...
 

snowmanny

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I don't like the announcing for this series because their respective shticks are terrible rather than biased however your posts in this thread are excellent.

In my experience as an out of market person, Boston sports fans are indeed disliked or perceived as annoying as hell. I simply don't understand it. Who would not want to hang with us, hear our takes informed by rooting for all of our successful teams and bask in the glow of a fanbase that acts like its been there before? Its unfathomable how we got here...
Not to mention our superior knowledge of Gay-Lussac’s law and the implications thereof on tire pressure and sports equipment. I mean, condescension should be forgiven when you are, in fact, pretty much always right. Right? Right.
 

joe dokes

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Most people here are above average when it coms to their fandom so the sample is skewed. But venture into the wild and you find a very different breed of fan
Over at the Children of Lake Wobegon, they all claim to be above average.
Breen's alright. Jackson often lowers JVG to Jackson's level.

I also think I am among the few who like Hubie Brown. If you can get past his syntax, and machete through the extra words, his analysis is usually spot on *and* informative and how a mistake should be done right next time on things like setting picks and boxing out. He doesn't usually devolve into anodyne crutches about "showing up" and the like.
 

Auger34

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I think the Celtics have gotten a ton of praise and respect from announcers.

I don't like the Breen/JVG/Jackson crew, but they have been adequate this series. The only thing that I didn't like was Breen just couldn't get a grip on Monday over what was happening in the game. He was just astounded that the Heat couldn't score and wouldn't be quiet about it.
Van Gundy and Jackson both have their schtick. It’s annoying that they are wrong so often but I don’t think it’s because of any bias so much as Jackson’s a complete fool and Van Gundy often lowers to his level.

Breen just seems like he is much more into the games where the Celtics are losing.
 

Spelunker

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I disagree. He really enjoyed the crazy Celtic 3 point shooting in game 2.
Yeah, I just don't see any sort of bias. And like I said earlier, I bet insecure Heat fans have been also complaining about Breen not being excited enough when they do well.