Divisional Weekend Gamethread

lars10

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
He's thinking it through
 
Do you really think 2:02 with zero timeouts is better than 2:00 with 1 timeout?
 
take a breath. Then get back to us.
Did Denver have to run a play before the two minute warning if San Diego didn't call the TO?  This is the part I'm forgetting...because if not then the TO was def smart because Denver had to run a play...that's the point.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
He's thinking it through
 
Do you really think 2:02 with zero timeouts is better than 2:00 with 1 timeout?
 
take a breath. Then get back to us.
 
Yes 2:02 with 0 timeouts is better.
 

radsoxfan

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DaughtersofDougMirabelli said:
 
Sigh.
 
In you first scenario there is a play run already. In your second no play has been run. They are completely equal. 
 
Taking time timeout with 2:02 is actually 2 seconds better.
 
Though, as mentioned, the small downside is that Denver can pass on 1st down without worrying about an incompletion.
 

H78

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Dear NFL,

LET THEM PLAY next week. It's probably the last time we'll get Brady and Manning in the AFC Championship game. No garbage, no shit calls, no new rules being introduced, no ticky-tacky PI calls...for the love of all that is good let them fucking play and may the best team win.

Signed,
A random guy on the Internet
 

SemperFidelisSox

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smastroyin said:
So next week is there any chance the Patriots don't put up at least 6 scores?.
Pats don't really have a deep threat without a healthy Dobson. Denver will commit to stopping the run, make Edelman, Amendola, short passing game beat them.
 

Reverend

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Super Nomario said:
Do you think Belichick went home after the game last night, said, "We've already played Denver and know what to expect," decided to watch some Chargers film, and then shut it off after 15 minutes thinking "there's no way the Broncos will lose to these assholes?"
 
:fonz:
 
Yes.
 

Ed Hillel

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radsoxfan said:
This upcoming game would be so epic with Gronk, Hernandez, Dobson, Wilfork, and Mayo playing.
 
As it is, still very excited for it, but a Pats win would be a pretty huge upset.
 
With the way the Pats have been playing the last month, I wouldn't call it a huge upset at all. Should be dogs, but I think an objective line is closer to 3.5 than 6.5.
 
And if we had all those guys healthy all year, Pats are probably 15-1 or 16-0, and hosting the game.
 

richgedman'sghost

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radsoxfan said:
You're not thinking it through. Take a deep breath, go through the scenario to completion, and then get back to us.
Death, the Chargers had only 1 timeout. It was better for them to take the timeout before the 2 minute warning. They actually saved around 2 seconds and force them to run a play.
 

radsoxfan

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
He's thinking it through
 
Do you really think 2:02 with zero timeouts is better than 2:00 with 1 timeout?
 
take a breath. Then get back to us.
 
If you can magically make a down disappear into the ether, then you are correct.
 

twibnotes

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Dear NFL,

LET THEM PLAY next week. It's probably the last time we'll get Brady and Manning in the AFC Championship game. No garbage, no shit calls, no new rules being introduced, no ticky-tacky PI calls...for the love of all that is good let them fucking play and may the best team win.

Signed,
A random guy on the Internet


I fear the officiating just as much as Den, which is obviously a good team. Homefield is all about getting the calls.
 

Ed Hillel

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SemperFidelisSox said:
Pats don't really have a deep threat without a healthy Dobson. Denver will commit to stopping the run, make Edelman, Amendola, short passing game beat them.
 
Amendola is definitely a legit deep threat.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I thought they had two timeouts left at the 2:02 mark. Changes things a bit.
 
Either way, the Chargers had no chance in hell of stopping Denver from getting first downs, so it didn't matter.  The call to kickoff with about 4 minutes left was a really difficult one and they chose wrong.  Oh well, never really thought we would be playing at home next week anyway.  Bring on Peyton and Co. again.  
 

Dollar

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radsoxfan said:
 
Taking time timeout with 2:02 is actually 2 seconds better.
 
Though, as mentioned, the small downside is that Denver can pass on 1st down without worrying about an incompletion.
 
If Denver runs a play that ends up out of bounds, or is an incomplete pass, or results in a first down, or results in a turnover, then the timeout called before the 2 minute warning becomes completely worthless.  The much better play is to let a few extra seconds run off the clock to ensure that your timeout is not wasted.
 
edit:  added turnover chance
 

Greg29fan

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phragle said:
Rivers actually outplayed Manning. 
 
Not worried.
 
I thought Manning was excellent today and was let down a lot by a receiving corps that all seemed to have Welker Butterfingers.
 

singaporesoxfan

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My non-sports-watching wife saw that interview with Peyton and said "that's the ugliest football player I've ever seen. What does he do? He doesn't look like a football player. He looks like a car salesman or an IT guy."
 

smastroyin

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radsoxfan said:
This upcoming game would be so epic with Gronk, Hernandez, Dobson, Wilfork, and Mayo playing.
 
As it is, still very excited for it, but a Pats win would be a pretty huge upset.
 
To be fair, even better if Welker and Bailey were 100% and if Miller, Vickerson, Moore were playing.
 

scottyno

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Deathofthebambino said:
I thought they had two timeouts left at the 2:02 mark. Changes things a bit.
 
Either way, the Chargers had no chance in hell of stopping Denver from getting first downs, so it didn't matter.  The call to kickoff with about 4 minutes left was a really difficult one and they chose wrong.  Oh well, never really thought we would be playing at home next week anyway.  Bring on Peyton and Co. again.  
they forced a 3rd and 17, hard to say that they chose wrong to kick it deep
 

radsoxfan

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richgedman'sghost said:
Death, the Chargers had only 1 timeout. It was better for them to take the timeout before the 2 minute warning. They actually saved around 40 seconds.
 
It wasn't THAT good of a decision, it saved them 2 seconds.  It's the difference between the 2nd down play being run with 1:57 on the clock or 1:55 on the clock.
 
But the point is that is was marginally better than waiting until Denver ran a play after the 2 minute warning, and certainly not a stupid thing to do.
 

bradmahn

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Denver can commit to stopping the run all they'd like, but Ridley and Blount are both better ball carriers than what the Chargers were throwing out there, the Pats have a better O-Line than the Chargers, and I am fairly certain the Pats will have a better game plan than what the Chargers had today. They'll manipulate pace and substitutions to get favorable matchups.
 
It's not going to be easy, but the Pats have a fairly good shot in this game.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I really didn't want this match-up for the Pats.  Not because the Broncos are all that great.  Its just that the media is going to be insufferable this week with Brady vs Manning part bazillion.  That and the fact that everyone outside of New England (and their wayward fans) are going to be pulling for Denver.  
 
Good luck 86Spike.  I think you have your most legit shot at the Superbowl in quite some time.
 

triniSox

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Greg29fan said:
 
I thought Manning was excellent today and was let down a lot by a receiving corps that all seemed to have Welker Butterfingers.
Yep. There was no pressure on him at all. I have to imagine Belichick digs deep in his bag of tricks to manufacture pressure (Collins A-gap? Chandler Jones stunts?)
 

quint

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a really good source
H78 said:
Dear NFL,

LET THEM PLAY next week. It's probably the last time we'll get Brady and Manning in the AFC Championship game. No garbage, no shit calls, no new rules being introduced, no ticky-tacky PI calls...for the love of all that is good let them fucking play and may the best team win.

Signed,
A random guy on the Internet
Dear random guy on the internet,

You suck.

Sincerely,

quint
 

BoredViewer

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radsoxfan said:
 
Taking time timeout with 2:02 is actually 2 seconds better.
 
Though, as mentioned, the small downside is that Denver can pass on 1st down without worrying about an incompletion.
 
Which - as I mentioned, might not really be much of a downside... as I'd imagine the slim chance of a weird tip/INT or a SD defensive back having a moment of inspiration and jumping the route - would be greater than a fumble on a handoff.  Not much, but a little.
 
Having said that... I'm sure that wasn't what SD was thinking when they called the TO.
 

Phragle

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Mystic Merlin said:
I'm not sure what color that is.
 
I believe they call that anus rurple
 
SemperFidelisSox said:
Pats don't really have a deep threat without a healthy Dobson. Denver will commit to stopping the run, make Edelman, Amendola, short passing game beat them.
 
That's what indy tried to do haha.
 
 
Greg29fan said:
 
I thought Manning was excellent today and was let down a lot by a receiving corps that all seemed to have Welker Butterfingers.
 
Manning's best drop was an interception. I think River's receivers dropped more than Manning's.
 

BoredViewer

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singaporesoxfan said:
My non-sports-watching wife saw that interview with Peyton and said "that's the ugliest football player I've ever seen. What does he do? He doesn't look like a football player. He looks like a car salesman or an IT guy."
 
I hope you're not an IT guy or a car salesman.
 

Deathofthebambino

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For those of you still tuned into the channel, watch the segment on 60 minutes of the people that can remember everything from their life by the day.  I saw the original story where there was like 2 people that they knew about and now, there is like 50+ around the world with the ability.  Literally, you can say a date to them, and they can tell you everything they did that day, down to what they ate or watched on tv from any day in their life.  It's insane.
 

radsoxfan

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Dollar said:
 
If Denver runs a play that ends up out of bounds, or is an incomplete pass, or results in a first down, then the timeout called before the 2 minute warning becomes completely worthless.  The much better play is to let a few extra seconds run off the clock to ensure that your timeout is not wasted.
 
Well you have to assume if you're under the 2 minute warning, they are running no matter what.  So it's not an equivalent situation.  They are going to milk the clock.
 
A first down and you're screwed, regardless if its the play leading up to the 2 minute warning (that you forced them to run by calling a timeout), or its the first play after the 2 minute warning.
 

Super Nomario

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SemperFidelisSox said:
Pats don't really have a deep threat without a healthy Dobson. Denver will commit to stopping the run, make Edelman, Amendola, short passing game beat them.
It looked like they were trying to take away San Diego's run game and short stuff today, and the Chargers had better luck throwing deep. I see them taking the same approach against the Pats. Who knows if Dobson or Thompkins will play, or be healthy, or how much rust they'll have. Our offense is a lot better than San Diego's (12th in points despite a soft schedule), so it'll be interesting to see how it works out.
 
Ed Hillel said:
 
With the way the Pats have been playing the last month, I wouldn't call it a huge upset at all. Should be dogs, but I think an objective line is closer to 3.5 than 6.5.
HFA is typically 2.5 - 3 points, right? It's reasonable to think Denver would be a 3-3.5 point favorite on a neutral site.
 

Ed Hillel

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Deathofthebambino said:
For those of you still tuned into the channel, watch the segment on 60 minutes of the people that can remember everything from their life by the day.  I saw the original story where there was like 2 people that they knew about and now, there is like 50+ around the world with the ability.  Literally, you can say a date to them, and they can tell you everything they did that day, down to what they ate or watched on tv from any day in their life.  It's insane.
 
I already saw that House.
 

lars10

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bradmahn said:
Denver can commit to stopping the run all they'd like, but Ridley and Blount are both better ball carriers than what the Chargers were throwing out there, the Pats have a better O-Line than the Chargers, and I am fairly certain the Pats will have a better game plan than what the Chargers had today. They'll manipulate pace and substitutions to get favorable matchups.
 
It's not going to be easy, but the Pats have a fairly good shot in this game.
I think a lot of it depends if Chris Harris is hurt or not.
 

Sox and Rocks

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That offensive gameplan by San Diego in the first half was horrible.  They didn't call one pass play on first down until 5:00 left before halftime, after they were already down 14-0
 

twibnotes

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That offensive gameplan by San Diego in the first half was horrible. They didn't call one pass play on first down until 5:00 left before halftime, after they were already down 14-0


So frustrating to think of how the game may have played out had SD not been so conservative
 

Sox and Rocks

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bradmahn said:
Denver can commit to stopping the run all they'd like, but Ridley and Blount are both better ball carriers than what the Chargers were throwing out there, the Pats have a better O-Line than the Chargers, and I am fairly certain the Pats will have a better game plan than what the Chargers had today. They'll manipulate pace and substitutions to get favorable matchups.
 
It's not going to be easy, but the Pats have a fairly good shot in this game.
San Diego had favorable matchups, too, they just weren't smart enough to take advantage of them.  I agree that New England will be smarter and more diverse with their offense. 
 

Sox and Rocks

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twibnotes said:
So frustrating to think of how the game may have played out had SD not been so conservative
Yeah.  They basically spotted Denver the lead by doing nothing offensively, and Denver is the one team you don't want to fall that far behind to (well, maybe along with NE)
 

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Sox and Rocks said:
That offensive gameplan by San Diego in the first half was horrible.  They didn't call one pass play on first down until 5:00 left before halftime, after they were already down 14-0
 
Seemed like they wanted to get whatever they could out of Matthews early before his pain killer wore off.  Also SD couldn't protect Rivers at all in the first half.  That had to play into the first half play calling.  Not sure what adjustments they made but they protected much better in the 2nd half, esp when in no-huddle.  Perhaps the DEN pass rushers got tired.
 

DJnVa

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Congrats to Peyton for tying Tim Tebow in career playoff wins for the Broncos.
 

Super Nomario

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Sox and Rocks said:
That offensive gameplan by San Diego in the first half was horrible.  They didn't call one pass play on first down until 5:00 left before halftime, after they were already down 14-0
I think they were trying to stick with what had been working for them - they rushed for almost 200 yards against Cincinnati and had at least 144 rushing yards in each game of their 5-game winning streak. I have to imagine part of it was keeping Manning on the sideline and trying to create a low-number-of-possessions game (which kind of worked; Denver only had 8 possessions and scored just 24 points despite never having to punt). But Denver did a great job shutting down the run and pressuring Rivers, and it took the Chargers too long to go to plan B.
 

bankshot1

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Sox and Rocks said:
That offensive gameplan by San Diego in the first half was horrible.  They didn't call one pass play on first down until 5:00 left before halftime, after they were already down 14-0
 
I'm pretty sure Whisenhunt was preoccupied with 2 job interviews.
 

dcmissle

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Super Nomario said:
I think they were trying to stick with what had been working for them - they rushed for almost 200 yards against Cincinnati and had at least 144 rushing yards in each game of their 5-game winning streak. I have to imagine part of it was keeping Manning on the sideline and trying to create a low-number-of-possessions game (which kind of worked; Denver only had 8 possessions and scored just 24 points despite never having to punt). But Denver did a great job shutting down the run and pressuring Rivers, and it took the Chargers too long to go to plan B.
Agree with this. You have to be patient with running game. Thier defense was playing well enough, and the game never got out of reach. They should have flipped the switch earlier but that is easy to judge now . They trailed the bengals at the half .
 

86spike

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Again, those late passes that torched Denver were when Jammer wound up in because of Harris's injury. If Harris plays (getting an MRI in the AM), Jammer will ride the pine.
 

lars10

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86spike said:
Again, those late passes that torched Denver were when Jammer wound up in because of Harris's injury. If Harris plays (getting an MRI in the AM), Jammer will ride the pine.
I don't think it's as easy as that... it was a clear change in philosophy by San Diego.  Probably because they recognized that Harris was out, but also probably because they had to change to the pass.  I think Denver is much more susceptible to the pass personally.
 
edit: spellin
 

bradmahn

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Peyton and the team last night huddled around all the adversity they faced this season. It must have been really tough for the reigning regular season AFC champ to add all those offensive pieces. Sure faced a lot of adversity. Sure did.
 

Sox and Rocks

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86spike said:
Again, those late passes that torched Denver were when Jammer wound up in because of Harris's injury. If Harris plays (getting an MRI in the AM), Jammer will ride the pine.
As pointed out above, it's definitely not that simple.  In the pregame thread I mentioned how one dimensional both of Denver's defensive units are, and you agreed with me.  But San Diego did nothing to take advantage of this, at least in the first half.  Against the run stuffing package of Knighton, Williams, Ianacho, etc., San Diego didn't throw once on first down until there was 5:00 left before halftime and they were already behind 14-0.  This allowed Denver to force 2nd and 3rd and long and use Phillips, Jackson, Ayers, etc. in an effective way.  Because of this, they were able to get after Rivers.  
 
We both know, and agreed a few days ago, that Denver has a unit that is quite good at stuffing the run and one that is quite good at rushing the QB, but they don't have a unit that can do both.  San Diego should have taken advantage of this and matched their playcalling to Denver's personnel, and didn't until the 2nd half.  I think New England will be smarter about these matchups, but then again I expected San Diego to be, too.