Divisional Round Gamethread

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Yeah let’s also not lose sight of the fact that the young man is 24. If he has a long and productive career, that catch will still be the highlight. I say let him enjoy the moment.
To say that the moment will be the highlight of this man's career is downplaying it considerably.

This is one of the great moments, not only in his history, or Vikings history, or NFL history, but in the history of sports, ever.

Every kid dreams of being that kind of hero - this was too implausible for any dream even.

"Let him enjoy it?" Oh I suppose we can be so generous.
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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Watch the replay from behind Williams at the 46 second mark. At no time would I describe what he did as "roaring up the field..." In fact, I don't think he ever got close to full speed. I mean, he almost comes to a complete stop and then kind of dives forward. He barely even rolled when he hit the ground.

I don't necessarily disagree with you guys that he probably had thoughts of DPI or trying to keep Diggs from going out of bounds on his mind, but I honestly think the guy went blank for a second. An NFL defensive back doesn't completely whiff like that ever, forget the situation. He literally did not make any contact with Diggs and IMO, he could have easily slowed down or stopped and kept the play in front of him. Why he dove where he did with his head down is beyond me.

He was thinking too much. He knew that if he tackled him inbounds the game was over so wanted to be between player and sidelines so his undercut would only knock him towards field not towards sideline. He was thinking too much instead of just hitting the guy. So instead of "just make the play" he's thinking "make the play, keep him inbounds, gotta hit him from this side, etc."

I feel for the kid.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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i’m willing to bet that just before the last play, the coaches told the Vikings DBs to be sure of two things:

1.) no PI
2.) keep them in bounds

i expect Williams was so focused on that he forgot the prime objective — stop the play.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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Need we remind people that the juggernaut Patriots lost to Kansas City, Carolina, and to a 6-10 Miami team who had nothing to play for but pride?
No. That's my point. We shouldn't build this up into some pit of doom if we play in Minnesota.
 

InstaFace

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No. That's my point. We shouldn't build this up into some pit of doom if we play in Minnesota.
Oh, if it's about the location, that I totally buy. It's like a world series crowd x10 - all corporate sponsors, generic rich people, raffle winners and the like. The individual teams' fanbases are a small fraction, I believe equally awarded, and will mostly cancel each other out. There won't be any special homefield advantage other than the fact that, if they make it, the Vikings won't have to travel.

That said, independent of the location, Minnesota is a fearsome team.
 

Average Reds

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I watched the Minnesota game at my neighbor’s house who is a lifelong Vikings fan from Duluth. He had ~40 people at his house and maybe 5 (myself included) were rooting for the Vikes.

Watching him watch the end of that game was a top 5 all times sports viewing experience for me. Incredible.
He had a big crowd over and only a handful rooting for his team?

How very Minnesotan of him.
 

8slim

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Oh, if it's about the location, that I totally buy. It's like a world series crowd x10 - all corporate sponsors, generic rich people, raffle winners and the like. The individual teams' fanbases are a small fraction, I believe equally awarded, and will mostly cancel each other out. There won't be any special homefield advantage other than the fact that, if they make it, the Vikings won't have to travel.

That said, independent of the location, Minnesota is a fearsome team.
This would be different. There’s no way Vikings fans wouldn’t crush the secondary market and end up with tens of thousands of real fans at the game. The place would be rockin’ unlike any SB crowd ever. Not that the Pats or Jags couldn’t overcome it.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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Yep--the Vikings can win just based on their team. The thought that Brady and the Patriots couldn't win because of the crowd noise or whatever? Eh.
 

Ed Hillel

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Superbowl 49 was essentially a road game and Pats are 15-1 the past two season on the road, so I have confidence.

I want the Eagles to win because I think they are the inferior opponent, of course.
 

uk_sox_fan

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Obviously I want the Pats to win, but Khan giving free tickets to 1,000 refugees for last weeks game made me a fan of his and the team.
Wow that's great! Good for him - what a terrific gesture.

He was thinking too much. He knew that if he tackled him inbounds the game was over so wanted to be between player and sidelines so his undercut would only knock him towards field not towards sideline. He was thinking too much instead of just hitting the guy. So instead of "just make the play" he's thinking "make the play, keep him inbounds, gotta hit him from this side, etc."
Don't underestimate the importance of keeping Diggs in bounds. Had Williams messed up conventionally and tackled him out of bounds there would have been 4 seconds on the clock and Minn would have had a 51 (52 at most) yard FG attempt for the win. Forbath was 6 for 9 this year in 50+ yard attempts so you can't say that "just making the play" would have been acceptable. He had to tackle him in bounds.
 

Leather

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If the Vikes’ secondary is banged up, they might not be so tough.
 

BaseballJones

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Wow that's great! Good for him - what a terrific gesture.


Don't underestimate the importance of keeping Diggs in bounds. Had Williams messed up conventionally and tackled him out of bounds there would have been 4 seconds on the clock and Minn would have had a 51 (52 at most) yard FG attempt for the win. Forbath was 6 for 9 this year in 50+ yard attempts so you can't say that "just making the play" would have been acceptable. He had to tackle him in bounds.
Well he had to TACKLE him, one way or the other. Not tackling him meant a game-losing touchdown. Tackling him in bounds meant winning the game. Tackling him out of bounds still would have left Forbath, yes, with a 51 yarder. In his career he's 11-17 from 50+ (64.7%), and 6-9 this year (66.7%). So yes, you'd bet money on a make there, but that's hardly an unreasonable chance that he'd miss. You still have a chance then. Williams did, basically, the only thing he couldn't do - miss the tackle.

PS - I don't know how Diggs got so wide open on the sideline anyway. Isn't that what the Saints were supposed to be defending against?
 

CoffeeNerdness

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I'd imagine given Pats fatigue + the fun hometown team angle will swing most of the neutrals to the Vike's corner as well. Just another obstacle to overcome should the Pats be lucky enough to get back to the big game.
 

ShaneTrot

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I am shocked that the Jags scored 45 points on the Steelers. Even with their LB injuries shouldn't the Steelers have stacked the box and dared Bortles to beat them?
 

Leather

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Well he had to TACKLE him, one way or the other. Not tackling him meant a game-losing touchdown. Tackling him in bounds meant winning the game. Tackling him out of bounds still would have left Forbath, yes, with a 51 yarder. In his career he's 11-17 from 50+ (64.7%), and 6-9 this year (66.7%). So yes, you'd bet money on a make there, but that's hardly an unreasonable chance that he'd miss. You still have a chance then. Williams did, basically, the only thing he couldn't do - miss the tackle.

PS - I don't know how Diggs got so wide open on the sideline anyway. Isn't that what the Saints were supposed to be defending against?
The other outcome, the one it looks like he’s afraid of, is tackling him in-or-out of bounds and getting hit with a penalty that stops the clock and puts them well within safe field goal range.

He should have stayed on his feet.

Once he committed to the low tackle he should have just let the chips fall where they may.
 

Boston Brawler

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I would imagine wrapping him up on his feet as he is coming down would have allowed him to keep him inbounds, stop forward progress, and then Minn would have been scrambling to spike.
 

DJnVa

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There's no chance at all they get a chance to spike the ball. He sprinted 40 yards to the end zone as the clock hit 0--so from catch to end zone ran out the clock--a WR going 35-40 yards in 4-5 seconds.

There was no way the OL was sprinting to wherever he was tackled, even if it was immediate. They were at there own 30 to 35---they couldn't get to the Saints 35 or so in time.
 

InstaFace

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After that play he could have pulled out his schwontz and smacked the guy in the Brees jersey in the end zone seats in the face with it if he wanted to.

After that play he can do whatever the fuck he wants.
See, I'd have been fine with that. Or any other expression of excitement. Or bawling his eyes out like Malcolm Butler did, just beside himself at the enormity of what he'd just done. Or show restrained, dignified pleasure, down even to the level of Belichick. Those would all be human reactions that we'd "get", even if a few prudes wouldn't have liked (say) a teabagging on live TV. Go nuts. Get overcome by emotion, in any direction.

I just didn't get the whole repeated scenes where he adopts some tough-guy stance and just stands there for 30 seconds staring into the void and trying to look "hard". His teammates are group-hugging him, shaking him, screaming their heads off, and he's just staring through them like he's Aaron Hernandez. It was really incongruous. You can't tell me that Diggs' ten minutes after that play were normal human behavior. And then before he leaves the field, he gets down, stretches out and prays in the direction of the locker room tunnel.

None of it matters, of course, but I understand why some people found it really weird.
 
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8slim

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Watch every game winning shot in the NCAA tourney the past decade. That hard ass stare is how the shooter reacts about 3/4ths of the time. It’s how the kids celebrate these days.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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I did get a little tired of his standing around, arms crossed with a scowl on his face pose, like he's the baddest dude around. Excitement is awesome, posing not so much.
I hope you saw the post-game interview with Diggs with ESPN. He lost his composure and broke down in tears, very much like Malcolm Butler in SB 49.
 

Manuel Aristides

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Kids these days celebrate wrong! When I was their age we celebrated up hill, in the snow, both ways! Plus they spend too much time on my lawn!
 

PC Drunken Friar

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See, I'd have been fine with that. Or any other expression of excitement. Or bawling his eyes out like Malcolm Butler did, just beside himself at the enormity of what he'd just done. Or show restrained, dignified pleasure, down even to the level of Belichick. Those would all be human reactions that we'd "get", even if a few prudes wouldn't have liked (say) a teabagging on live TV. Go nuts. Get overcome by emotion, in any direction.

I just didn't get the whole repeated scenes where he adopts some tough-guy stance and just stands there for 30 seconds staring into the void and trying to look "hard". His teammates are group-hugging him, shaking him, screaming their heads off, and he's just staring through them like he's Aaron Hernandez. It was really incongruous. You can't tell me that Diggs' ten minutes after that play were normal human behavior. And then before he leaves the field, he gets down, stretches out and prays in the direction of the locker room tunnel.

None of it matters, of course, but I understand why some people found it really weird.
Did you really just compare him to a convicted murdered because he crossed his arms and stared up into the crowd? And, he did break down like Butler did. Maybe the enormity of the event caused him to literally have no idea how to act and his coping mechanism was to stand there, collecting his thoughts. We have no idea what was going on in his head at that moment. But sorry you were offended that he, in your words, was trying to look hard.
 

InstaFace

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What about my post suggests I was offended? You've been on several different people for holding an opinion contrary to yours on this, PC DF, going back several pages. Maybe move on to something else?

Here he is, "collecting his thoughts", 5 minutes after the moment (edit: embed doesn't work).

On review, he's clearly got a much wider emotional range after the event, and I actually loved the immediate reaction of throwing up his arms in the Are You Not Entertained. But that bit above was kinda weird.
 

DanoooME

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PS - I don't know how Diggs got so wide open on the sideline anyway. Isn't that what the Saints were supposed to be defending against?
They flooded that side of the field with receivers at 3 levels all cutting to the sideline: one shallow (Rudolph, I think), one medium (Wright) and one deep (Diggs) to maximize their options over there. The other side had a corner on Thielen playing outside with deep safety help. They rushed 4 and had 2 LBs in the middle of the field (that makes no sense the more I think about it, should have had 1 LB and 6 DBs), so that left 3 DBs on the left side of the defense. One LB never moved the whole play; can't imagine he was a spy or anything, so he was pretty useless. The other LB backed up some and to the left but was never really in the play. Were they concerned about a catch in the middle of the field and a lateral?

I'm really starting the think the DC blew it with the personnel on the field, the second LB was pretty much worthless. The other safety never bothered to move once it was obvious the ball wasn't going to Thielen. Plenty of blame to go around on that one. An extra DB in that area would have helped immensely, more than a LB anchored to the middle of the field covering no one.
 

BigSoxFan

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They flooded that side of the field with receivers at 3 levels all cutting to the sideline: one shallow (Rudolph, I think), one medium (Wright) and one deep (Diggs) to maximize their options over there. The other side had a corner on Thielen playing outside with deep safety help. They rushed 4 and had 2 LBs in the middle of the field (that makes no sense the more I think about it, should have had 1 LB and 6 DBs), so that left 3 DBs on the left side of the defense. One LB never moved the whole play; can't imagine he was a spy or anything, so he was pretty useless. The other LB backed up some and to the left but was never really in the play. Were they concerned about a catch in the middle of the field and a lateral?

I'm really starting the think the DC blew it with the personnel on the field, the second LB was pretty much worthless. The other safety never bothered to move once it was obvious the ball wasn't going to Thielen. Plenty of blame to go around on that one. An extra DB in that area would have helped immensely, more than a LB anchored to the middle of the field covering no one.
Agreed. Williams obviously screwed up that play but there was no need for 2 LBs in the middle of the field that shallow. I would have rushed 3 and had 1 LB playing deep in the middle and just flooded the sidelines with DBs/safeties. The DC really screwed up but probably gets away with it 99 times out of 100. Took a perfect throw from Keenum and catch from Diggs to burn them.
 

Zoidberg

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The biggest question I have (someone edumacate me on why I'm wrong?) is why every defensive player on the field didn't hold/tackle/mug every receiver, take the 5 yard holding call and whatever elapsed time on that last play. Hold the receivers for ~10 seconds, give up 5 yards and an untimed play from 55 yards away? That would take away the possibility of a deep sideline pass to set up a field goal (the intention of the play that was actually run), with the only downside being MN gets a couple seconds to prep their final play.

Am I missing something?
 

Mystic Merlin

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The biggest question I have (someone edumacate me on why I'm wrong?) is why every defensive player on the field didn't hold/tackle/mug every receiver, take the 5 yard holding call and whatever elapsed time on that last play. Hold the receivers for ~10 seconds, give up 5 yards and an untimed play from 55 yards away? That would take away the possibility of a deep sideline pass to set up a field goal (the intention of the play that was actually run), with the only downside being MN gets a couple seconds to prep their final play.

Am I missing something?
As of this year, that tactic is illegal. If you try it, the official awards 15 yards to the other team and resets the game clock to the time left as of the snap.
 

singaporesoxfan

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See, I'd have been fine with that. Or any other expression of excitement. Or bawling his eyes out like Malcolm Butler did, just beside himself at the enormity of what he'd just done. Or show restrained, dignified pleasure, down even to the level of Belichick. Those would all be human reactions that we'd "get", even if a few prudes wouldn't have liked (say) a teabagging on live TV. Go nuts. Get overcome by emotion, in any direction.

I just didn't get the whole repeated scenes where he adopts some tough-guy stance and just stands there for 30 seconds staring into the void and trying to look "hard". His teammates are group-hugging him, shaking him, screaming their heads off, and he's just staring through them like he's Aaron Hernandez. It was really incongruous. You can't tell me that Diggs' ten minutes after that play were normal human behavior. And then before he leaves the field, he gets down, stretches out and prays in the direction of the locker room tunnel.

None of it matters, of course, but I understand why some people found it really weird.
8slim has it - that's pretty much within the range of normal celebrations for an athlete Diggs' age. Saying you don't think it is is more an admission of you being out of touch than a criticism of Diggs
 

trekfan55

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Well he had to TACKLE him, one way or the other. Not tackling him meant a game-losing touchdown. Tackling him in bounds meant winning the game. Tackling him out of bounds still would have left Forbath, yes, with a 51 yarder. In his career he's 11-17 from 50+ (64.7%), and 6-9 this year (66.7%). So yes, you'd bet money on a make there, but that's hardly an unreasonable chance that he'd miss. You still have a chance then. Williams did, basically, the only thing he couldn't do - miss the tackle.

PS - I don't know how Diggs got so wide open on the sideline anyway. Isn't that what the Saints were supposed to be defending against?
The first point has been discussed here a lot and around "water coolers" everywhere today.

But your PS is even more important. At that point the Vikings had maybe one play to make to try to get in FG range (and get out of bounds). It is truly 1/100 chance to make such a throw and then get out of bounds.
 

trekfan55

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As of this year, that tactic is illegal. If you try it, the official awards 15 yards to the other team and resets the game clock to the time left as of the snap.
Wait, I'm guessing the penalty os for repeatedly doing it. The Saints had not done it, so why not hold at the last play? If it's just that one play who determines if it's deliberate?
 

SumnerH

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Wait, I'm guessing the penalty os for repeatedly doing it. The Saints had not done it, so why not hold at the last play? If it's just that one play who determines if it's deliberate?
It's for multiple fouls during the same down to manipulate the game clock; as Kenny says, the ref makes the determination:

ARTICLE 3. INTENTIONAL FOULS TO MANIPULATE GAME CLOCK
A team may not commit multiple fouls during the same down in an attempt to manipulate the game clock.

Penalty: For multiple fouls to run off time from the game clock: Loss of 15 yards, and the game clock will be reset to where it was at the snap. After the penalty is enforced, the game clock will start on the next snap.
 

trekfan55

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It's for multiple fouls during the same down to manipulate the game clock; as Kenny says, the ref makes the determination:
Ok, so if it's on the final play just hold Diggs as he moves downfield to kill secinds off the clock. If they do it on the final play with one receiver (just do it before the pass so it's not PI) then it should be fine. Anyway none of it matters.
 

NortheasternPJ

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8slim has it - that's pretty much within the range of normal celebrations for an athlete Diggs' age. Saying you don't think it is is more an admission of you being out of touch than a criticism of Diggs
I thought it was awesome. You score like that you can do whatever you want that's not offensive. I thought it was an great moment and the staring into the crowd was a great visual on TV and I'm sure if you were at the game as well.

He could have gone full Rod Tidwell and I wouldn't have cared