Disciplining players

[robssecondjob]

How does everybody here handle disciplining players? 
 
I am coaching 2 travel soccer teams this spring, one a Division I U-11 boys team and one a U-9 balanced league boys team.  The U-11 team is a tryout league and these kids are the best players in the program.  They are all committed and focused on the game.  They are still boys so they occasionally do stupid stuff.  They all know when they do the stupid stuff so they aren't surprised when they pulled out of line or off the scrimmage field to run a lap dribbling the ball.  During game day they are terrific.  Focused on the sideline, all pretty good teammates.  They all seem to have each others backs on the field and on stuff like own goals.
 
My U-9 team is a completely different story.  As a balanced league there are no tryouts.  The club makes the teams up to make the three teams we field even in talent.  My U-8 team from last season was mostly broken up as we were the best team in our program last year.  I have 6 returning players and 7 new to the program (and it appears competitive team sports).  I am a big team guy, no one person wins or loses a game.  Fill in all the platitudes here.  I have a number of the new players that almost seem like they are only there because their parents want them there.  Our first game was today and the behavior was a horror show (the game was a nil-nil affair).  I had one player who kept asking to be keeper.  I told him in the second half he might get some minutes but it depends on the flow of the game.  He kept hounding me every 3 minutes or so.  When he was subbed in on defense he put on a whining, pouting fit about him being a keeper.  This seemed to embolden all the newer players to demand specific positions from me.  I about lost my mind.  The crew of new players managed to miss an entire line change as they were so busy debating with me they missed the refs call to sub!!
 
Then my "keeper" malcontent made the comment to one of his team mates coming off the field, "You aren't very good at this game...".  I have no use for that.  Club rules say I need to play everybody even playing time so I can't penalize him in that manner. 
 
Any ideas?  These guys have me more frazzled than any group I have ever coached.  I am good with losing, but I am not a baby sitter.
 
  

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

They're so young I don't know that it matters, but the way I'd handle that U9 situation would be to have a meeting before the next practice and explain that they won't play a position in a game they haven't already worked on or played in practice. I'd explain what happened at the last game is not happening again. And then put it on them, tell them if they want to work in a certain position, now is the time to ask you, and once you feel they have sufficient understanding of the position, you'll let them see time there during the game.
 
I used to have that issue with kids wanting to pitch, as if I can't identify who can throw and who can't. But I was surprised once I let a few soft throwing kids try it in practice. We had a soft tossing kid that actually threw strikes once I gave him a shot in a game, and if he hadn't asked I never would have worked him at pitcher in practice.
 
I'd also try to separate the competitive environment of the 11U team and the babysitting environment of the 9U kids, They're not as skilled and two years younger, so you've got two entirely different situations. I'd just try to make things as active and fun in practice as possible.

 

[riboflav]

How does everybody here handle disciplining players? 
 
I am coaching 2 travel soccer teams this spring, one a Division I U-11 boys team and one a U-9 balanced league boys team.  The U-11 team is a tryout league and these kids are the best players in the program.  They are all committed and focused on the game.  They are still boys so they occasionally do stupid stuff.  They all know when they do the stupid stuff so they aren't surprised when they pulled out of line or off the scrimmage field to run a lap dribbling the ball.  During game day they are terrific.  Focused on the sideline, all pretty good teammates.  They all seem to have each others backs on the field and on stuff like own goals.
 
My U-9 team is a completely different story.  As a balanced league there are no tryouts.  The club makes the teams up to make the three teams we field even in talent.  My U-8 team from last season was mostly broken up as we were the best team in our program last year.  I have 6 returning players and 7 new to the program (and it appears competitive team sports).  I am a big team guy, no one person wins or loses a game.  Fill in all the platitudes here.  I have a number of the new players that almost seem like they are only there because their parents want them there.  Our first game was today and the behavior was a horror show (the game was a nil-nil affair).  I had one player who kept asking to be keeper.  I told him in the second half he might get some minutes but it depends on the flow of the game.  He kept hounding me every 3 minutes or so.  When he was subbed in on defense he put on a whining, pouting fit about him being a keeper.  This seemed to embolden all the newer players to demand specific positions from me.  I about lost my mind.  The crew of new players managed to miss an entire line change as they were so busy debating with me they missed the refs call to sub!!
 
Then my "keeper" malcontent made the comment to one of his team mates coming off the field, "You aren't very good at this game...".  I have no use for that.  Club rules say I need to play everybody even playing time so I can't penalize him in that manner. 
 
Any ideas?  These guys have me more frazzled than any group I have ever coached.  I am good with losing, but I am not a baby sitter.
 
  

 
Can you kick players off the team? I always try to get rid of one player early in the season so I can relax and enjoy the rest of it. 

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

 
Can you kick players off the team? I always try to get rid of one player early in the season so I can relax and enjoy the rest of it. 

Is my sarcasm meter broken or is this really serious? Sounds incredibly selfish. How do you explain it to the kid and parents?
 
Are they also U11 or below?

 

[Heinie Wagner]

FIrst, no doubt in my mind, coaching a rec type team with no tryouts, where everyone makes the team is far more difficult from a discipline perspective, than coaching a team where cuts were made.  If everyone who signs up makes the team, you're going to get kids who just aren't that into it.
 
I think a lot of times kids like that are just crying out for attention.  It's easier to give advice that to really do it, but I try to always keep my patience, never argue with them, just state the facts, "you will be playing defense" and never tell them anything with any ambiguity like you'll play goalie depending on the flow of the game.  The kid (and the parents) will not hear the "depending on the flow of the game" part, no matter how much emphasis you put on it.  After the game, go over that they will only play positions you worked on in practice is perfect.  Also make a team rule: during games you are not allowed to ask when you will go into the game or request a position.  Before/after practice or some other time that you schedule with the coach is the time to discuss positions.
 
I coach basketball and even in 8th grade travel, I'm shocked how many kids ask "coach, when am I going back in?"  (grouchy old man rant) Kids these days just have a big sense of entitlement that I was not aware of when I was their age.  I can't imagine asking something like that of any coach I ever played for.
 
I'd speak with the league president or whoever and ask about exceptions to the equal play rule for bad behavior or being a bad teammate.  Playing time is a very powerful tool for coaches.  A hard and fast equal playing time rule with no exceptions will have some unintended consequences.  I'm all for relatively equal playing time, as long as there are no issues with behavior, playing hard, sportsmanship etc but the coach needs to have some discretion.

 

[robssecondjob]

My bad on adding the qualifying statement to when the player was going to play keeper.  I had hadn't shifted my mindset from the competitive team to the balanced team.  I will be more definitive going forward.  Tonight's practice I will set the clear ground rules on asking for positions and playing time. 
 
This player was given the opportunity to practice in net and it was pretty clear he was terrible.  Unless the ball struck him it went in the net.  And if it didn't go into the net he proceeded to handle it into the net.  Not hugely surprisingly this player is almost my most likely to miss practice without notice.
 
A different players parent told me that his son needs a chair to sit in during the games.  It will make him more comfortable.  This team is going to drive me to drink. 

 

[Heinie Wagner]

LMAO - a chair for a player to sit in!!  Priceless, you gotta laugh or you'll cry. 
 
I LOVE the parents who are like "Johnny is going to miss practice this week, but don't worry, he'll be there for the games this weekend".  So frustrating.  Few parents understand practices are more important than games if the kids want to get better.
 
It's tough to go back to coaching rec level teams after you coach a travel type team.

 

[Cumberland Blues]

I always make it very clear at the first team meeting - kids will get to try any position they want in practice, but I'm the one who decides who plays where during the game.  Any kid politicking for a new position during a game gets extra laps at the next practice.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

Why do the problem kids get to work harder and get in better shape as punishment?

I think you send a bigger message by making a kid sit and miss conditioning work as consequence of his misdeeds.

 

[BrazilianSoxFan]

In my little experience playing youth sports, missing conditioning work is very rarely seen as punishment.

Since you can't directly discipline the players, how about making the entire team do extra laps if someone doesn't follow your rules? The kids well start self policing in no time.

 

[Heinie Wagner]

Why do the problem kids get to work harder and get in better shape as punishment?

I think you send a bigger message by making a kid sit and miss conditioning work as consequence of his misdeeds.

 
I agree in most cases, and always in a travel (tryout) type environment where kids really want to be there, the biggest punishment to them is to have to sit out.  I've seen coaches make kids run and they actually enjoy it.
 
In a rec type team where everyone makes the team, it's different, some of those kids want to sit down and miss stuff.  Then it really depends on the kid.

 

[robssecondjob]

Missing drills is no punishment for the players I am having a hard time with.  They mostly don't want to be there.  
 
I practiced my problem player in net, which he thinks is his spot on the field.  He is terrible, but I worked with him on some basics and he showed a tiny bit of forward progress.  I did tell him I he will not be playing that position this weekend.  He said "That is okay, you should always keep your best keeper in reserve".  In true "karma is a bitch" category one of real keeper's got really rocked on shot to the side of the head.  He is at real risk of not playing this weekend...
 
I had a chat with the coaching director and he will void playing time rules for behavior issues.  He has no problem with me benching a player.  That is encouraging,  I need to compose up an email to the parents and go from there. 

 

[JimBoSox9]

In the 9-12 age range I take a very simple discipline approach:
 
1) "Oh No" baseball, which is generally acting like a dope in one way or another, is fined by laps.
 
2) If one player runs a lap, the whole team runs a lap.
 
3) A fine example of "Oh Yes" baseball may wipe away a lap, but (unless I'm feeling generous) only if the kid who accrued the fine does it.
 
Shared responsibility, individual atonement.  As long as there as some positive alphas in the huddle, this normally gets the team involved in keeping the knuckleheads in line.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

I still really don't like sending the message that running or other physical activity is bad, and to be avoided.

One of the things we are trying to do with youth sport is to get kids to embrace physical activity, and lay the foundation for an active lifestyle in the future.

By equating excercise with poor behavior, we don't do that.

 

[JimBoSox9]

I still really don't like sending the message that running or other physical activity is bad, and to be avoided.

One of the things we are trying to do with youth sport is to get kids to embrace physical activity, and lay the foundation for an active lifestyle in the future.

By equating excercise with poor behavior, we don't do that.

That's a nice sentiment, but I don't think it's particularly reality-based or really applicable. You start off practice with a good dollop of cardio and lay in all those good lessons about exercise there. When it comes to the punishment laps, running isn't the punishment. Time is the punishment. Ask a hundred kids if they'd rather be doing BP/scrimmage or run laps, and you'll get one response. Running is just what they do while they serve the punishment, and, I mean, this is sports - running is what you do when you're not otherwise occupied.

 

[BigJimEd]

I still really don't like sending the message that running or other physical activity is bad, and to be avoided.

One of the things we are trying to do with youth sport is to get kids to embrace physical activity, and lay the foundation for an active lifestyle in the future.

By equating excercise with poor behavior, we don't do that.

Good point. I hadn't really thought of it that way before.
 
9U team sounds pretty similar to most rec teams that I've come across. I always put a big focus on team rules for the first couple practices and games. I always make kids sign a team rules page before the season which always focuses on sportsmanship and respecting teammates, opponents and refs. I have no use for insulting teammates (or anyone for that matter) either. Then I go over it a couple times and make sure I point out examples the first couple weeks.
 
Also, I also have the rule that if anyone asks during a game to play a certain position then they don't get to play it. Although I'm sometimes lax on this rule and give a warning the first time the kid asks during the game.
 
Playing time being equal really limits the options for discipline. Probably best to stick to focusing on rewarding the good behavior. I like to do it as a group when I can but also want to recognize individual actions. As a group, they have opportunity to do their favorite drill at the end of a practice if everyone works together.
Pick a player who's doing the little things to lead a drill or be captain for the week. Those type of things. Things you are probably already doing to some degree but put a little more emphasis on it and make sure you tell the team why you chose that player and why they are doing this drill and not that drill.
 
Football season we choose a couple kids every week that get to wear "captain's" jerseys during practice (different color mesh jersey and helmet cap). We have a ceremony the beginning of practice for the week and choose kids based on the last weeks practice.
 
I've also been known to give out plenty of packets of big league chew during baseball season. Kids always share it anyway but they still want to be the one who "earned" it.
 
Not too much more you can do in a rec league.  Although you usually still have some wiggle room with playing time and/or positions. That should be more of a last resort at this age particularly for a child who's new to competitive sports. They're just learning their surroundings and while they may be a pain you still want them to enjoy the experience. You just need to make sure they aren't ruining it for others.

 

[Heinie Wagner]

If time is the punishment, not the running, then sitting still is punishment too.  I agree with the sentiment that it's tough to discipline a kid who really doesn't want to be there by having him sit and do nothing, but I also agree that you don't want to equate running with punishment.  This is a much bigger deal in sports like basketball, where running is a huge part of the game.  
 
Maybe this is cynical of me, but in a rec setting, there are some kids who just aren't that into it.  Your concern with them is that you don't want them bringing the practice down for everyone else more than maximizing what they get out of it.  Sending them off to run laps could be less of a distraction to the other kids than having them sit still somewhere. When you have kids who don't want to be there, there really isn't a good answer.
 
I'm not looking forward to transitioning from coaching travel and AAU basketball to coaching Little League this spring for that reason.  

 

[Fred not Lynn]

That's a nice sentiment, but I don't think it's particularly reality-based or really applicable. You start off practice with a good dollop of cardio and lay in all those good lessons about exercise there. When it comes to the punishment laps, running isn't the punishment. Time is the punishment. Ask a hundred kids if they'd rather be doing BP/scrimmage or run laps, and you'll get one response. Running is just what they do while they serve the punishment, and, I mean, this is sports - running is what you do when you're not otherwise occupied.

Do you have an analog stopwatch to go with that grey sweatsuit? The 1950s were 60 years ago...

For one, why would you do your conditioning work first? Warm up, yes, but too much, and your athletes will be fatigued and unable to concentrate on the real work they're there for.

And why use running as filler, unless it is part of the practice plan?

Excercise as punishment and time filler is lazy coaching, period. There are better ways.

 

[robssecondjob]

This team continues to confound me. This week I had:

- Heinies "We are missing all the practices, but will be there for the game." With the added bonus of "We need a ride for Junior as we won't be attending the game." The game was in Nantucket with a multi-hour ferry adventure layered in. Think leave the house at 9 am return at 6 pm schedule.

- My chair needing player went on a long bike ride before the game and reported in he was "real tired from vacation"

- I scheduled a inter-town full field scrimmage instead of practice one day. I was by myself with my club (assistant out of town on business) so I was splitting coaching and referee duties.. My second line was instructed to stay ready with pinnies on to get subbed in. At a break in play I looked over to see them dumping MY water bottle on each other. They got to sit for another shift. When I went to put them in they were throwing sticks at each other.

- In my game in Nantucket we were in a real battle. We haven't been behind very much this season and the boys didn't respond well. Lots of Eeyore "Woe is me" behavior. I tried to rally them and most of them responded admirable. I told them VERY clearly that we never, ever give up on a game or our teammates, and if I heard anybody give up they were benched. My worst behaved one almost immediately came back with, "Why do you say that stuff when you know we are going to lose". We lost 2-1. Not exactly a game to give up on!

And then, like the one golf shot that keeps you coming back, I get this: One of weaker players on defense was on the field. He was having a better game than I have seen from him all season, not much skill but lots of hustle. The other team had a corner than turned into a scrum in the area. Our keeper got tripped up and left the net wide open. My normally helpless player flies into position on the line and takes a screamer of shot right to the center of his chest to make the save. Absolute highlight reel material. He had the wind knocked out of him and went down in a heap. After retrieving him I had to convince him he wasn't going die. While he was catching his breath on the bench the best player on our team (who is clearly the alpha dog) came and sat next to him and said "that was awesome you totally saved us. I want you on field with me whenever I am on the field".

 

[Heinie Wagner]

The first four points - you gotta laugh or you'll cry.  That last part really saved the day!  Awesome.  Keep up the good fight and live for moments like that.