Diminishing Marginal Lebrons: your best 5-man team (clones permitted)

amarshal2

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Don’t get me wrong, Horford and Brown are great players, Horford is the classic third member of a big 3, the guy that scores the points the other two don’t.

Brown projects to a secondary scorer, an effective scorer whose offense comes from the attention the primary scorer gets (and there’s nothing wrong with this, Kevin Garnett was a secondary scorer, albeit one of the best in league history).

Tatum’s a on a different level, he’s a pure alpha scorer on a team that already has two of those guys. How do you stop someone like that when you already have to stop Kyrie and Gordo?
It’s not just the alphas, it’s the 5 player mix.

In this context what matters is shooting ability, not ball handling or overall scoring. You could still pull double teams on the ball carrier at times if there were weak players on the floor. But with that 5, there’s not going to be a guy shooting below ~38% from 3, never mind a weak link.

Said differently, offensively I’d rather have a team of 4 LeBron’s and 1 Kyle Korver in their prime than 5 LeBron’s. What’s the point of a 5th alpha when you can add a stud shooter instead? I’d probably rather 3 LeBron’s and 2 Korver than 4:1. What are you going to do about Kyrie/Gordo/Tatum? You sure as shit aren’t going to leave Al and JB alone. They’ll kill you.
 

the moops

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I would take 5 Lebrons over any combination of LeBron + Korver. I get what you are going for, but Korver on the defensive end is bad enough to offset his open three point looks. Maybe.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I would take 5 Lebrons over any combination of LeBron + Korver. I get what you are going for, but Korver on the defensive end is bad enough to offset his open three point looks. Maybe.
Yeah but the opponent isn't going to have 5 dribble-drive scorers on the floor to exploit Korver's defense. Simply having Korver(s) shadow their spot-up shooter(s) would be well worth having Korver(s) catch-and-shooting off LeBron(s) penetrations.
 

lovegtm

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It's comforting to know that, even in these contentious times, everyone can come together and agree to accept a team of no fewer than 3 LeBrons.
 

amarshal2

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I would take 5 Lebrons over any combination of LeBron + Korver. I get what you are going for, but Korver on the defensive end is bad enough to offset his open three point looks. Maybe.
That’s why I said “offensively, I’d rather have...”
 

veritas

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What actually would be the best starting 5 you could make, assuming you could clone players? It's definitely at least 3 LeBrons, right?
 

Reverend

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Holy fucking shit guys.

I mean... I can't even...

Do you realize that you idiots just basically reverse engineered the economic theory of diminishing marginal return... which is, like, pretty fucking advanced shit in a sense... especially in terms of how it's being applied here to team work with a comparative advantage referent from exchanges of trade...

I hope some day you jerks get credit for your theory of Diminishing Marginal LeBrons.

I'm serious. You guys have blown me away this time. I love this subforum so much.
 

queenb

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What actually would be the best starting 5 you could make, assuming you could clone players? It's definitely at least 3 LeBrons, right?
To me that question goes something like: who wins in a game between 5 KDs and 5 LeBrons? 5 LeBrons have everything but elite shooting and might be more physical than 5 KDs, whereas 5 KDs have everything except for elite play-making and passing, a problem made more manageable by the likelihood that clones will be more inclined to look for each other and work the ball around because it's like getting yourself shots, and you know exactly where you're gonna be. To be safe, I'd go with something like 2 LeBrons and 3 KDs. You could throw in a Curry or Embiid to create some kind of mismatch for your offense, but then you're vulnerable to an unfavorable match-up on the other end against an all-KD clone squad.
 

HomeRunBaker

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To me that question goes something like: who wins in a game between 5 KDs and 5 LeBrons? 5 LeBrons have everything but elite shooting and might be more physical than 5 KDs, whereas 5 KDs have everything except for elite play-making and passing, a problem made more manageable by the likelihood that clones will be more inclined to look for each other and work the ball around because it's like getting yourself shots, and you know exactly where you're gonna be. To be safe, I'd go with something like 2 LeBrons and 3 KDs. You could throw in a Curry or Embiid to create some kind of mismatch for your offense, but then you're vulnerable to an unfavorable match-up on the other end against an all-KD clone squad.
What if we begin with 3 KD's and 3 LeBrons then add one part Dellavadova to each......which team would win, the one with Tyler Johnson as their 5th or the one with Andre Emmett from The BIG3 League?
 

djbayko

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To me that question goes something like: who wins in a game between 5 KDs and 5 LeBrons? 5 LeBrons have everything but elite shooting and might be more physical than 5 KDs, whereas 5 KDs have everything except for elite play-making and passing, a problem made more manageable by the likelihood that clones will be more inclined to look for each other and work the ball around because it's like getting yourself shots, and you know exactly where you're gonna be. To be safe, I'd go with something like 2 LeBrons and 3 KDs. You could throw in a Curry or Embiid to create some kind of mismatch for your offense, but then you're vulnerable to an unfavorable match-up on the other end against an all-KD clone squad.
I know NBA game strategy has moved on from this but I feel like you gotta have 1 Shaq on the bench to selectively sub in for mismatches.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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To me that question goes something like: who wins in a game between 5 KDs and 5 LeBrons? 5 LeBrons have everything but elite shooting and might be more physical than 5 KDs, whereas 5 KDs have everything except for elite play-making and passing, a problem made more manageable by the likelihood that clones will be more inclined to look for each other and work the ball around because it's like getting yourself shots, and you know exactly where you're gonna be. To be safe, I'd go with something like 2 LeBrons and 3 KDs. You could throw in a Curry or Embiid to create some kind of mismatch for your offense, but then you're vulnerable to an unfavorable match-up on the other end against an all-KD clone squad.
As they’re clones, what happens if a Lebron or KD gets injured. Are they all automatically injured?
 

SumnerH

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What if we begin with 3 KD's and 3 LeBrons then add one part Dellavadova to each......which team would win, the one with Tyler Johnson as their 5th or the one with Andre Emmett from The BIG3 League?
Doesn't matter, my 5 Vin Bakers are beating them all.

Because we have Brad Stephens at all our coaching slots.
 

nighthob

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My five Sean Kemps will beat your five Vin Bakers by taking them out the night before the game. ;)
 

Koufax

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Give me Hakeem, Russell, David Robinson, Wilt and Kareem, with Shaq and Moses Malone as bench players (and as muscle in case the LeBrons get feisty). The biodiversity will outlast the clones who, as noted above, will automatically all get injured at the same time. My team will get all the rebounds and Wilt will score 100 points a game.
 

luckiestman

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Give me Hakeem, Russell, David Robinson, Wilt and Kareem, with Shaq and Moses Malone as bench players (and as muscle in case the LeBrons get feisty). The biodiversity will outlast the clones who, as noted above, will automatically all get injured at the same time. My team will get all the rebounds and Wilt will score 100 points a game.
C’mon man, I thought we were using current players @ their current status. If not, I’m changing my squad
 

Ale Xander

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Alltime?

1 Magic, 3 Bird, 1 Russell or 1 Magic, 1 Jordan 1 Pippen 1 Bird 1 Russell
Can't make up my mind.
 

snowmanny

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I'll take Moses Malone and any four random Woody Harrelson types off the street in Petersburg Virginia
 

oumbi

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Give me Hakeem, Russell, David Robinson, Wilt and Kareem, with Shaq and Moses Malone as bench players (and as muscle in case the LeBrons get feisty). The biodiversity will outlast the clones who, as noted above, will automatically all get injured at the same time. My team will get all the rebounds and Wilt will score 100 points a game.
No, no, no, no. You want 3 Supermans, 1 Flash, and one Batman.
 

Sox Puppet

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Interesting that it took until post #28 for someone to include Jordan.

In a related challenge, on The Athletic someone recently posed the question "If you could put one retired Celtic on next year’s starting lineup, who would it be and why? To make it interesting, let’s remove (Bill) Russell and (Larry) Bird because that’s cheating."

After considering a few legends, the writer settled upon KG. "You can start Garnett next to Al Horford and snuff out any rival’s hope of scoring or you can bring Horford off the bench and keep all the wings on the court. Either way, Garnett’s the perfect defensive big man for the modern NBA and a nightly matchup nightmare for opponents."
 

snowmanny

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Interesting that it took until post #28 for someone to include Jordan.

In a related challenge, on The Athletic someone recently posed the question "If you could put one retired Celtic on next year’s starting lineup, who would it be and why? To make it interesting, let’s remove (Bill) Russell and (Larry) Bird because that’s cheating."

After considering a few legends, the writer settled upon KG. "You can start Garnett next to Al Horford and snuff out any rival’s hope of scoring or you can bring Horford off the bench and keep all the wings on the court. Either way, Garnett’s the perfect defensive big man for the modern NBA and a nightly matchup nightmare for opponents."
Garnett makes sense but I'd be pretty tempted to pick Havlicek in part to see what Stevens would do with him on this team. Just so relentlessly solid at everything, a guy who spanned two championship runs.
 

snowmanny

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Steve Kerr Special...

Curry, Jordan, Pippen, Durant, Duncan.
I'll take D'Antonio and

Magic, Maravich*, Bird, James and 1977 Walton.

*career 3-pt %: .666

Edit: Your defense is better, but I'm pretty sure the defense is irrelevent in this case.
 

bosox79

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Interesting that it took until post #28 for someone to include Jordan.

In a related challenge, on The Athletic someone recently posed the question "If you could put one retired Celtic on next year’s starting lineup, who would it be and why? To make it interesting, let’s remove (Bill) Russell and (Larry) Bird because that’s cheating."

After considering a few legends, the writer settled upon KG. "You can start Garnett next to Al Horford and snuff out any rival’s hope of scoring or you can bring Horford off the bench and keep all the wings on the court. Either way, Garnett’s the perfect defensive big man for the modern NBA and a nightly matchup nightmare for opponents."
Jordan would have been mentioned much earlier if this wasn't pulled out of another thread. It also started with non retired players.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Interesting that it took until post #28 for someone to include Jordan.

In a related challenge, on The Athletic someone recently posed the question "If you could put one retired Celtic on next year’s starting lineup, who would it be and why? To make it interesting, let’s remove (Bill) Russell and (Larry) Bird because that’s cheating."

After considering a few legends, the writer settled upon KG. "You can start Garnett next to Al Horford and snuff out any rival’s hope of scoring or you can bring Horford off the bench and keep all the wings on the court. Either way, Garnett’s the perfect defensive big man for the modern NBA and a nightly matchup nightmare for opponents."
Give me McHale before he injured his foot. With McHale on the floor, the team would never have a scoring drought. Also, he used to guard James Worthy so he'd be perfectly fine switching on defense.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Duncan
KG
LeBron
Jordan
Curry
I love this team so much and think it would be unstoppable. Though I do wonder how well MJ would get on with someone like LeBron. I am a LeBron fan and think he can play with anyone. However some circumstantial evidence suggests that both he and some of his contemporaries don't share that view. And I wonder how Jordan would do with another mega-alpha on the floor. KG, Duncan and Curry can pretty much play with anyone seamlessly and in just about any era though Curry wouldn't be the same with hand-checks (as we have noted in this forum over the years).
 

Reverend

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I love this team so much and think it would be unstoppable. Though I do wonder how well MJ would get on with someone like LeBron. I am a LeBron fan and think he can play with anyone. However some circumstantial evidence suggests that both he and some of his contemporaries don't share that view. And I wonder how Jordan would do with another mega-alpha on the floor. KG, Duncan and Curry can pretty much play with anyone seamlessly and in just about any era though Curry wouldn't be the same with hand-checks (as we have noted in this forum over the years).
OK, now this is interesting, because you are raising an intertemporal element with respect to character.

Like, LeBron only exists in the form of LeBron that he does in response to Jordan and what Jordan meant. So there is a Batman-Joker kind of issue, but one that happens over a longer period of time and depends upon them NOT playing at the same time; LeBron is a function of Jordan.

This team collapses that temporal structure, so it's like Batman both did and not create the Joker, at the same time, which must affect, as @DeJesus Built My Hotrod points out, how they interact on the court as teammates.

I just don't see how it couldn't.
 

Apisith

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How is Shaq not in anyone’s team? No one could stop peak Shaq. Duncan in the team makes KG redundant. Duncan with Shaq would be awesome.
 

nighthob

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*career 3-pt %: .666
If the NBA had implemented the three point line a decade earlier the Pistol would have been a video game cheat code. (Yes his career percentage was due to only getting a handful of treys that final year when injuries had ravaged him, but in his prime he could shoot out to about 25’, he’d’ve murdered NBA defenses with the extra point for those long jumpers.)