Christopher Price @cpriceNFL 31s32 seconds ago
Per reports, Don Yee, Jeffrey Kessler & De Smith all present for court hearing in NY this morning while Brady is in West Virginia.
STAY AWAY DON YEE
Christopher Price @cpriceNFL 31s32 seconds ago
Per reports, Don Yee, Jeffrey Kessler & De Smith all present for court hearing in NY this morning while Brady is in West Virginia.
Bleedred said:where is it definitively attributed to league sources?
@cpriceNFL Per reports, Don Yee, Jeffrey Kessler & De Smith all present for court hearing in NY this morning while Brady is in West Virginia.
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 8s9 seconds ago
Per source, no material terms were offered during Tuesday's settlement talks on Brady. Parties still stuck on facts (re: guilt) of the case.
Per source, no material terms were offered during Tuesday's settlement talks on Brady. Parties still stuck on facts (re: guilt) of the case.
I defer to the litigators, but I just don't believe Berman will be swayed by the parties' flexibility or rigidity for settlement purposes. He'd be much more sensitive to a possible reversal by the Circuit. Trial judges don't like that. I take his probing to be the usual attempt to see how deeply rooted each party is, by focusing on possible weaknesses in their respective cases. They're not necessarily harbingers of what may occur. Some cases just have to try.
I think this winds up with a reaffirmation of the CBA and a stay pending appeal
jsinger121 said:
Nate Raymond @nateraymond 7m7 minutes ago
Judge Berman urges #NFL, union to reach 'logical and rational' conclusion and settle their case over #Deflategate suspension of Tom #Brady
Nate Raymond @nateraymond 5m5 minutes ago
Judge Berman sets Aug. 31 hearing, says #Brady and #NFL's Goodell must attend. Judge will also meet with lawyers today re: #Deflategate deal
Couldn't "per league sources" mean anything, or are we to assume he'd say "sources connected with Tom Brady"? I'm not quibbling with you, I'm just trying to be precise (this whole case has made me paranoid about language).MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
Upstream in this thread, and on the radio this morning.
Post #3758
tims4wins said:We've had this debate before. League sources could mean literally anyone
TheoShmeo said:If the NFL is leaking that Brady would take a game or two for non-cooperation, and will not accept Wells, that's a pretty stupid leak. As noted above, it makes Brady look reasonable and pragmatic. The NFL insisting that he admit to the Wells Report, with all of its holes and bad science, to say nothing of the fact that he'd be admitting to being a liar, is asking for the obviously impossible, especially given the NFL's failure to prove anything other than through inferences from texts of third parties. So here's to Zolak being wrong and this state of play being shared with Judge Berman. If I were Berman, it would be one more indication that the NFL is acting capriciously.
This is spot on.Average Reds said:
A leak promoting the idea that Brady would be willing to accept any suspension is clearly intended (IMO) to bolster the perception of Brady's guilt. The fact that this leak also indicates that the NFL is standing firm on having Brady accept the findings of the Wells Report is consistent with the NFL's insistence that the "violation" is not up for discussion. What we're discussing is the penalty for that violation.
In short, the leak fits almost perfectly into the narrative the NFL is promoting. The fact that it might be false or stupid is almost an irrelevant consideration.
edmunddantes said:The only reason (if he's stuck on deference trumps all) I could see Berman trying to thread the needle for not affirming the award is the point several people have made (including me).
If Berman affirms, the CBA on discipline becomes meaningless, and the Federal docket gets tons more cases from the NFL as Roger & crew will most assuredly abuse their new power until such time they get the final smack down or 2020 comes along and they find a way to trade the power for an extra 3-5% revenue split (e.g. move it from 50-50 to 53-47 owners)
A leak promoting the idea that Brady would be willing to accept any suspension is clearly intended (IMO) to bolster the perception of Brady's guilt. The fact that this leak also indicates that the NFL is standing firm on having Brady accept the findings of the Wells Report is consistent with the NFL's insistence that the "violation" is not up for discussion. What we're discussing is the penalty for that violation.
In short, the leak fits almost perfectly into the narrative the NFL is promoting. The fact that it might be false or stupid is almost an irrelevant consideration.
Having the principals at a hearing is not such a big deal. The timing announcement is leverage, since one of the few things both sides have agreed on is that they'd like to get it resolved soon. Of course a delay beyond opening night brings "time served" into any settlement discussion.So Berman just ordered Brady and Goodell to appear in court again on Aug. 31st if no settlement is reached, and has now said that he may not rule by the Sept. 4th date. This seems to be a pretty big deal, and seems like he is pissed at somebody, no?
But it was Schefter. He has seemingly been one of the adults in the room when it comes to NFL reporting for quite some time (e.g. Breaking into OTL to blow up their report) and he had a front row seat to Mort pouring gasoline over his head and dropping a match.H78 said:This is spot on.
As others have said, it may be a preseason game (though I agree that's doubtful). We don't know what the actual proposal is, only how it's been framed to us by a mouthpiece for the NFL.
RGREELEY33 said:So Berman just ordered Brady and Goodell to appear in court again on Aug. 31st if no settlement is reached, and has now said that he may not rule by the Sept. 4th date. This seems to be a pretty big deal, and seems like he is pissed at somebody, no?
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13467909/judge-orders-patriots-quarterback-tom-brady-roger-goodell-back-court-aug-31
H78 said:If he doesn't rule by the 4th doesn't that only hurt Brady as he wouldn't be able to play in the opener?
I think the NFLPA would file for an injunction or whatever it's called, to prevent Brady from missing any time wile this is being litigated.H78 said:If he doesn't rule by the 4th doesn't that only hurt Brady as he wouldn't be able to play in the opener?
NEW YORK -- Judge Richard Berman seemed to commiserate with NFLPA attorney Jeffrey Kessler during final oral arguments, which are being presented this morning at the Daniel Patrick Moynihan U.S. Courthouse.
During Kessler's hour-long summation of points where the NFL went astray in investigating and suspending Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, the topic of "general awareness" surfaced again.
As Kessler stated that, "Player policies say you can't be punished for being 'generally aware,' " Berman nodded vigorously. Berman then asked, "Can Mr. Brady be fined under the equipment policy?"
Kessler answered, "Yes, but the 'generally aware' problem trumps that."
Berman replied, "I read that and find that the 'general awareness' doesn't relate to the Jan. 18 game," to which Kessler said, "Outstanding observation."
Berman also seemed to agree that the NFL withholding NFL council Jeff Pash from being questioned during Brady's appeal hearing in June was significant.
NFL attorney Daniel Nash followed Kessler at the podium, and while Berman said he could take just as long as Kessler, Nash said he likely wouldn't need it because this is not the time to fight the details.
Nash alleged that Kessler's final argument proves the NFL's point, that the NFLPA is trying to re-open the investigation with Berman as the arbitrator.
dcmissle said:In general, I think judges are agnostic on settlement terms, even if one side is being unreasonable.
Here, though, if reports are to be credited, RG is asking for more than he could win in court as a precondition to cutting the suspension. As I noted in the legal thread last night, that is virtually unprecedented, unrealistic and incredibly ballsy. And I could envision Berman really being put off by it.
Otis Foster said:I'm still conscious of the neutrality/bias/fairness issue. They're all aspects of the same question: Will a court enforce a seemingly-unlimited grant of authority to one party to an agreement, or will it set some guidelines based roughly on the notion of good faith and fair dealing?
Because I'm not a labor lawyer, I don't know if the law surround CBAs is different, but it does offend my sensibilities as a lawye to say that there's no limit on the exercise of authority. There's plenty of case law that the authority must not be exercisable in a way that defeats the bona fide expectations of one party to an agreement, at least in the commercial setting.
joe dokes said:I agree with this. Don't forget, in the minds of those who the PR-conscious league is trying to reach, the ONLY reason Brady settles is because he's guilty. The NFL is capitalizing on that. Not for the Judge. He doesn't give a shit about this stuff. It's dick-swinging for the "benefit" of the rest of the players. "We're happy to try and ruin Tom Brady's reputation, you could be next."
On the bright side, it'll be hell on the Steelers to develop a defensive game plan!H78 said:If he doesn't rule by the 4th doesn't that only hurt Brady as he wouldn't be able to play in the opener?
Corsi said:
Kessler went as far Wednesday as delving into the Wells report and the PSI findings turned in by the firm Exponent. Passing out a hand-out, Kessler said, "I call this hand-out 'Angels Dancing on the Head of a Pin.' "
He went on to say that Exponent's testimony in the Wells report showed that the NFL is alleging, "Mr. McNally went into the bathroom to lower PSI one or two tenths."
Kessler said, "That's like being pulled over for going one or two miles over the speed limit and the officer saying he concluded that by counting, 'One-Mississippi, two Mississippi . . .' "
jsinger121 said:
Tom E. Curran @tomecurran 2m2 minutes ago
Stepped out of courthouse for update. Judge Berman banging NFL around for comparing ball deflation to steroid use, making Pash off limits.
Tom E. Curran @tomecurran 57s58 seconds ago
NFL attorney Daniel Nash says "some in NFL" wanted 4 games for deflation and 4 games for non-cooperation. #benevolent
Holy Jeebus!jsinger121 said:
Tom E. Curran @tomecurran 2m2 minutes ago
Stepped out of courthouse for update. Judge Berman banging NFL around for comparing ball deflation to steroid use, making Pash off limits.
Tom E. Curran @tomecurran 57s58 seconds ago
NFL attorney Daniel Nash says "some in NFL" wanted 4 games for deflation and 4 games for non-cooperation. #benevolent
jsinger121 said:
Tom E. Curran @tomecurran 2m2 minutes ago
Stepped out of courthouse for update. Judge Berman banging NFL around for comparing ball deflation to steroid use, making Pash off limits.
Tom E. Curran @tomecurran 57s58 seconds ago
NFL attorney Daniel Nash says "some in NFL" wanted 4 games for deflation and 4 games for non-cooperation. #benevolent
Or is this the NFL saying "look. We feel strong in our position of 4 games. We already compromised by coming down to 4. We shouldn't have to compromise more unless we get something for it (admission of guilt, support for Wells report)."edmunddantes said:Holy Jeebus!
If nothing else screams out for someone to finally smack the NFL down, this does.
They are drunk with power. In what world would have that punishment made any sense or fit into any standard of fairness?
TheoShmeo said:Average Reds, your assumption is that if Berman hears that Brady is willing to take a game that he will take it as a tacit admission of guilt. I disagree. Judges are used to seeing bitter adversaries settle to end and de-risk disputes all the time. I get how John Q Public would misinterpret Brady in that way, but I don't think a Judge would be as prone to doing so. I think that Brady's team is capable of messaging the concession in a way that makes clear that Tom would be doing it to move on and take the 4-game possibility off the table. Coupling that message with the notion that the deal will not get done because the NFL is asking for Brady to admit to a series of lies would reinforce that Tom is doing this to be pragmatic, not because he actually admits to anything. It's also consistent with the door that Kessler opened at the last hearing regarding Tom perhaps not cooperating as much as he should have.
For a judge that, based more or less exclusively on what I've read here, seems pragmatic and sensible, I have to wonder what he sees that makes him think that continuing settlement discussions are worthwhile.I think Stephanie Stradley has a saying for this.
"Settle this thing, settlingly yours judge settle"
He's still hammering settlement to avoid this going up the tree. I think he's resigned to the fact that no matter how he rules, this will continue up the federal court chain.
He's trying his best to get them to get this out of the court system (since it's such a stupid case), but they do have actionable claims that you can't just dismiss on a summary judgement/dismissal ruling.
My god, the craven arrogance of these people is endless. I know we have firmly established that there was never an official, legally binding gag order. But given Bermans stated preference that he wants the rhetoric toned down, this kind of naked attempt to further smear Brady in the public eye cannot be making him happy.jsinger121 said:Tom E. Curran @tomecurran 2m2 minutes ago
Stepped out of courthouse for update. Judge Berman banging NFL around for comparing ball deflation to steroid use, making Pash off limits.
Tom E. Curran @tomecurran 57s58 seconds ago
NFL attorney Daniel Nash says "some in NFL" wanted 4 games for deflation and 4 games for non-cooperation. #benevolent
So... "Basically Roger will pull a rabbit out of his ass again and it is his prerogative to do as he wishes." With no thought to fairness, consistency, etc.
Berman then asked, "So the next time someone tampers with a ball but cooperates, what would he get?"
Nash, after a roundabout explanation, finally settled on: "The amount of discipline would be based on the sound judgment of the commissioner."