#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
cornwalls@6 said:
Of course he can, but you don't negotiate terms with a party that is not authorized to make the decision.
The team has no authority to accept on Brady's behalf. And the involvement of the NFLPA is (obviously) a complicating factor.
Devizier said:
I don't know about the scientific experts as much but in financial litigation $300-400 an hour for junior guys and $1000 for more experienced are pretty typical rates.
The $45 million number for Paul, Weiss sounds insane. They're expensive but we're talking about two three month investigations that shouldn't be that email or expert heavy. Maybe that's an all PW rate including other work?
EDIT: 45 million for this and a couple years of the concussion litigation and the Incognito stuff is believable.
He took the time to, you know, research the issue. To his credit he has spent a TON of time on this - maybe more than anyone on SoSH - and he has come to realize what a traveshamockery the whole thing is. We can only pray that others start to pick up on his work.DrewDawg said:
M
MentalDisabldLst
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Average Reds said:
eh, he's an entertainer, and he's generally entertaining. He genuinely enjoys sports and talking about sports, but like most of us, when he strays too far from his area of expertise, it's more probable than not that he'll end up being a moron.
Well if you (Russo) have a national radio show and go on talking about what a great job Wells did in his report, I believe to be credible you should have read the report as well as the Report In Context.
MentalDisabldLst said:
No disagreement. But sports is supposed to be his area of expertise and yet he refuses to inform himself.
Florio has actually gone through the info and has done a 180 on the topic. King looks like he is on his way there.
Sure. If Goodell reduced the suspension from 4 games to 2, Brady's action would still move ahead, now appealing the 2-game ban.Average Reds said:
So any such agreement between Goodell and Kraft would not make Brady's case go away.
But, in the - perhaps unlikely - event that Goodell reversed the original ruling and overturned the suspension entirely, wouldn't he be giving Brady what he's asking for and therefore remove Goodell's headache (if he even sees it as such)?
To be clear, I don't foresee Goodell overturning the suspension - a token reduction is more likely.
scotian1 said:
Felger claimed yesterday to have not read the K balls section of the report. I think he's probably lying because reading that section will change your perception of NFL HQ and the entire report, and he doesn't want to go there.
Nice job, kartvelo!
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 1m1 minute ago
Roger Goodell and Patriots owner Robert Kraft already have met, spoke and even hugged, per an industry source who witnessed it.
Roger Goodell and Patriots owner Robert Kraft already have met, spoke and even hugged, per an industry source who witnessed it.
So, the other day I posted the response I got from a "journalist" ... and she has been all over the news outlets with her opinions and has been relentless against the Patriots. She based her opinion that the Patriots/Brady are guilty on the fact that the Patriots suspended McNally and Jastremski. I pointed out that the NFL directed that suspension and yesterday she got back to me said, no, the Patriots did. I said it was illogical, that the Patriots who maintained their innocence would do something on their own accord because they felt the guys at the center of this were guilty?
So, that's a reason why someone from a major news outlet thinks the Patriots/Brady are guilty. And it is/was wrong. No way she changes her mind though, guaranteed. As I think it was Kareem Abdul Jabbar who said, it's easier to get people to jump out of a planes without parachutes than to get them to change their opinions.
So, that's a reason why someone from a major news outlet thinks the Patriots/Brady are guilty. And it is/was wrong. No way she changes her mind though, guaranteed. As I think it was Kareem Abdul Jabbar who said, it's easier to get people to jump out of a planes without parachutes than to get them to change their opinions.
Corsi said:
This information can only be correctly evaluated after we know who gave/received the handie?
Correct. But if you believe the Exponent study, even after about 10 minutes in the locker room a wet ball's psi would only have risen from 11.3 to about 11.9. And knowing the way this investigation was conducted I wouldn't be surprised if Exponent took all the balls out of the bag right away rather than one by one.HowBoutDemSox said:
All this aside, the salient point here is that we are talking about minor psi changes in what was anything but a controlled environment. I think most people are still operating under the assumption that the balls were highly deflated - on the order of 2.0 as was originally reported. Most people I talk to are surprised when I tell them the actual numbers. One guy at work didn't believe me and made me show it to him in the report.
MarcSullivaFan said:
Disagree, I think it would be a big PR boon. This is the same audience who couldn't be bothered to read the report or even attempt to understand what the IDG is. Show them numbers of other footballs falling 1-2 PSI below in bad weather, and I think that would work out well for the team.
The amount of leaks coming out the NFL offices in this story is simply amazing to me. One of the major problems with the initial investigation and reporting of this was how clearly incorrect a lot of the reports were. The Patriots did and will make that part of their case I would imagine. It is absolutely amazing to me that there are so many leaks, still going on. I mean, immediate reporting of a possible deal with a hug. Can't they sniff out the people in the room who saw this alleged hug and crack down on this. Now, if there is no deal it will make the Patriots look like they wouldn't bend to something less punitive.
MarcSullivaFan said:
Based on?
I'm inclined to think not. FWIW, in Schefter's interview with WEEI, he said: "I think there already have been backchannel discussions - and I'm not saying they're continuing now, but have been backchannel discussions - between the League and the Patriots."
Not even that these conversations are ongoing - and certainly not that they'd reached any agreement. In addition, he explicitly objected to calling them negotiations.
As for the hug, I'd think Kraft is being civil, knowing that there are issues to resolve. No need to be a dick about it, especially if being a dick could be a barrier to getting what he wants.
Im not sure this deal stuff has any legs, but any deal that doesn't involve the Pats admitting guilt and involves getting the 1st round pick punishment knocked down even a round is a snap accept unless Kraft is willing to sacrifice his standing among owners for a messy court fight with a super, super low chance of success.
As a fan Id like them to burn it down and fight the power and all, but I dont have a billion dollars and 20 years of blood, sweat, and tears at risk so its pretty easy to say from the outside.
As a fan Id like them to burn it down and fight the power and all, but I dont have a billion dollars and 20 years of blood, sweat, and tears at risk so its pretty easy to say from the outside.
pappymojo said:
Whatever happens, the league and Kraft are going to look terrible from a PR perspective. Goodell burned the tapes and underpunished the Pats for Spygate (obviously stupid, but PR and all), now he's hugging Kraft and decreasing the punishment.
Ed Hillel said:
Still, if the Commish were to tweak the punishment on appeal, going forward it buttresses his maneuver to have Vincent issue the punishment and he himself handle the appeal.
Corsi said:
I wouldn't make too much of this. I've been told that they were just practicing next year's Lombardi trophy presentation.
Stitch01 said:
This is where I am.
I think it's likely that one side reached out to the other. And perhaps sought even to see if there could be any middle ground. Not clear which side would have taken that step, but I have my suspicions.
That said, I don't think there is sufficient bargaining space, unless one side gives considerably or gets creative.
Creative in this case could be something like the scenario others have raised: season-long testing of the balls, with results recorded on a game-by-game basis and regularly published by an independent third party, and an agreement that all sanctions against the Patriots will be overturned if it shows that their balls were within range given similar conditions. Of course, that does not get over the issue of the nonexistent baseline readings. Maybe PricewaterhouseCoopers (lol) will need to use both of Walt Anderson's gauges at every game. So even here, I'm not sure I'm buying if I'm the Patriots.
Harry Hooper said:
No, it doesn't.
His maneuver is either permitted or not permitted in the CBA. But that doesn't change based on an agreement between the Pats and Goodell in any way, shape or form.
Ed Hillel said:
So many people *already* think the Patriots got off lightly. As with the Patriots' PR ship already having sailed, the "Goodell and Kraft are lovers and Rog will never hurt his buddy" meme will *never* die either; no matter what the punishment. Because after this -gate, there will be the next-gate, in which the same mouth breathers will say, "Goodeel thinks he is safe now because of Balls-gate." As Terry Francona used to say, "If you start listening to the people in the stands, soon you'll be sitting with them."
Kraft probably already understands this. Goodell is less likely to.
Average Reds said:
Of course, not legally with the NFLPA, but in his dealings with the member teams.
I don't disagree with any of this, but if it's truly informal back channel communication, could Goodell and Kraft informally discuss options for Brady without Kraft making taking any concrete actions on Brady's behalf? Like Goodell offering to eliminate Brady's suspension if Kraft agrees not to fight the other penalties, and Kraft agreeing to run it by Tom, but strongly indicating that it's an approach that could work? Or with the NFLPA letter to Troy and involvement, are both Kraft and Goodell somewhat barred from even discussing it?
I just don't see what they could possibly be discussing if both Brady's suspension and (per Schefter) the return of any draft picks are both off the table.
Harry Hooper said:
He already has the teams in a box with respect to the disciplinary process. All he has to do there is not act like a royal fuck up.
Earlier that day an angry Kraft spoke to King and told him to ask Goodell about their relationship. Hours later they are embracing in public. That suggests to me that something has changed significantly. Admittedly, saying that deal is in place was over the top.Section15Box113 said:
OnWisc said:
As suggested earlier, Goodell could simply rescind the punishment of Brady as a way to eliminate the entire issue. However, if he did that without exonerating Brady, I don't think Brady or the union will be satisfied.
I also don't believe the idea that modification of the Pats punishment is off the table, because it doesn't make a lot of sense. And after thinking about it, I'm not sure that we should place any credence in any reports today. They all come from one side (the NFL) to advance the idea that the league is closing ranks, holding hands and signing kumbaya together.
Is it possible that this is a bit formalistic for something that's not your typical union shop?Average Reds said:
I think we could both easily conceive of a universe in which Kraft tells Brady, "We'll do whatever we can to clear your name," before taking the past week's actions and then goes to Goodell and says, "Drop Brady's suspension and we won't pursue anything else," even if they both know full well that Brady would have to approve the final deal.
Do you think that's completely far-fetched?
Kraft is nuts if he accepts any deal that doesn't include a provision for the team to "rehabilitate" itself back to first-time offender status (maybe something like 2-3 seasons with no incidents), or an agreement that going forward for all teams each infraction is judged strictly in isolation in terms of team responsibility.