#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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Reverend

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Van Everyman said:
Again, Kravitz explicitly tweets that he didn't have the chance to talk to Colts officials about this. Either he's lying, the league told him or, I guess, a Colts official texted him about it and he's parsing words. Other than the fact that he's a Colts reporter, why is everyone so certain he HAS to be doing the Colts' bidding here? Do we have evidence of him lying in the past?
No self-respecting journalist reports uncritically that he was told the balls were weighed to determine the pressure even if he was actually told that.

Because it is utter nonsense. You don't report everything you are told. If anything, he could have reported that he was told this, but note the obvious problems with the information, which suggested to so many others that something fishy was going on and not something with the Patriots.

I spent a day or two early on in this issue hiding every post that referred to weighing the balls. It cleaned up the thread immeasurably. If Kravitz wants to be held to a lower standard than an internet fanboy forum, well, what can I say?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Ed Hillel said:
I wondered about this from the beginning, but Kravitz is a guy who never made it in his bigtime hometown NYC and takes his bitterness out on everyone else. Of course, he also hates Boston sports. Here's an excerpt from a story about him where it's portrayed that he's fired from SI because his boss was an intractable Bostonian:
 
 
 
 
I know E5 posted this earlier, but my God, read this. The guy is an egomaniacal jackass.
 
http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/news-opinion/bob-kravitz-sports-columnist/
 
 
Anyone who has any doubts about Kravitz' true motivations regarding his tweets about the AFCCG needs to read this:
 
 
And in 2008, amid the Dungy and Sampson controversies, as his city was finally named Super Bowl host, Kravitz appears to be sharper and hungrier than ever. So much so, that he decided dedicating 15 more hours a week to pissing people off with his unconventional opinions on his own radio show was a good idea. “It was the money,” he jokes. “It was all about the money.”
 
He's CHB in a far shittier city.
 

simplyeric

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Hagios said:
 
Agreed. There needs to be a Godwin's Law for Twitter. As the number of participants in a social network increases, the probability of someone tweeting something stupid approaches 1. It's a non-story unless the dumb tweet comes from someone who is already famous/well-known in the relevant circles outside of Twitter.
 
 
What do you think that number is?  Like, 8?  
 
I kid...it's probably about 20.
 

ifmanis5

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Bettis is an idiot. Here's his logic:
 
"Anybody who's played this game for a long period of time and has touched the football regularly can tell you the difference. Now you sit there and ask a defensive lineman, yeah, he probably couldn't tell you. But a guy who handles the football on a regular basis can tell you that a ball is the difference from wherever it was -- 10.5 to 12.5. You can tell the difference. That's not even a question about that part."
 
Well, don't the referees touch the ball on a regular basis? They touched all the balls before, during and after the game. They didn't seem to have an issue with any of them. Aren't they the experts? Plus, in the second half, when presumably the balls were correct, that's when the Pats ran it down the Colts' throat. What was the problem then, Bus? All these guys are doing is making themselves look like butthurt clowns. It's hilarious at this point.
 

m0ckduck

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baghdadjamie said:
Didn't see this posted anywhere. Bettis on SB and Deflategate. The hatred runs strong in this one!
 
http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/Bettis-weighs-in-on-the-Super-Bowl-Deflategate-35559900
 
I enjoyed this quote:
 

Bettis made it clear that he would have been furious if he was in Lynch's shoes in the Super Bowl.
 
"Oh my goodness. I am livid. I am super mad," Bettis said. "There was a case not of this magnitude, but we had a game -- I'll never forget it. We were playing Jacksonville, I believe it was. I think we were in overtime or something like that, and it was a 4th-and-1 play, a 3rd-and-1 play, and they didn't put me in. And in that play, the quarterback fumbles the ball, it gets picked up, run back for a touchdown, we lose the game. I said to myself, 'Are you kidding me? You don't put me in?' I was pissed. I made it known in my resentment for that situation.
 
 

Fumbling at the goal line on a crucial play, eh? Who could possibly be so careless...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUcDGLHCOi4
 

Norm loves Vera

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Kravitz drew first blood, not me.
 
The source of my anger are the rabid accusations that the Patriots (specifically BB and TB) messed with the integrity of the game.  TB has worked his ass off to go from a 6th round pick to one of the best ever in his chosen field...He is the epitome of the American Dream, he works hard and diligently to master his craft. 
 
Short of a live confession by someone on the Colts that this was all cooked, TB BB and the Patriots are forever cheats now in the public opinion regardless of any findings by the NFL and that truly pisses me off.  It's easier to believe they cheated or cut corners then to grasp the fact that the Patriots just out worked, out prepped and were just better than your team... year after year
 
I am not an eloquent man, I am not the smartest here on SoSH regarding stats, schemes and such, I am just a guy who has been a Patriot fan since the days of futility sitting in the freezing bleachers at Schaefer Stadium.  Having said that, I recognize the work ethic of TB and BB who made the Patriots a perennial winner.  I relish the legacy we are witnessing with the BB/TB tandom.   They are the example, I will point my son to on how to approach life.
 
I have never cried after a SB win, but I did after Butler intercepted.  The culmination of all the accusations, all the bs made this win so huge... so vindicating.  The Patriot 4th qtr was one of the most prolific ever in the history of the NFL and it won't be remembered as such because of hacks like Kravitz who had an agenda.
 
Now I want blood. 
edit typo
 

steveluck7

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"Oh my goodness. I am livid. I am super mad," Bettis said. "There was a case not of this magnitude, but we had a game -- I'll never forget it. We were playing Jacksonville, I believe it was. I think we were in overtime or something like that, and it was a 4th-and-1 play, a 3rd-and-1 play, and they didn't put me in. And in that play, the quarterback fumbles the ball, it gets picked up, run back for a touchdown, we lose the game. I said to myself, 'Are you kidding me? You don't put me in?' I was pissed. I made it known in my resentment for that situation.
Ok, So Jerome
was playing Jacksonville.. maybe
It was overtime... possibly
It was a 4th and 1 play... or a 3rd and 1
 
Glad he'll "never forget it" though
I hear NBC has an opening at the newsdesk
 

Ed Hillel

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ifmanis5 said:
Bettis is an idiot. Here's his logic:
 
 
Well, don't the referees touch the ball on a regular basis? They touched all the balls before, during and after the game. They didn't seem to have an issue with any of them. Aren't they the experts? Plus, in the second half, when presumably the balls were correct, that's when the Pats ran it down the Colts' throat. What was the problem then, Bus? All these guys are doing is making themselves look like butthurt clowns. It's hilarious at this point.
 
I'm pretty sure he said on ESPN that he wouldn't have known the difference himself, because he was just a running back. Now he knows, in fact it's obvious.
 

ifmanis5

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Ed Hillel said:
I'm pretty sure he said on ESPN that he wouldn't have known the difference himself, because he was just a running back. Now he knows, in fact it's obvious.
I'm pretty sure I saw him say that too. Also, we heard from other QB's that they cared more about the texture of the ball than the inflation.
 
But if deflating the balls was such a huge advantage wouldn't more teams be doing it? Or maybe they are but no one cares because they're not the Pats.
 

GlucoDoc

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What is really being overwhelmed by the inflation issue and who did or did not do whatever, as nicely stated above, is that BB and TB are really fantastic role models.  All the success they have achieved over the last many years comes from a huge dedication to their craft.  When goaded by the press to say something negative, BB, TB, and all of the team fall in line and complement the opponent.  When they fail to win, BB says "they were outcoached."  Putting it on his own shoulders.  It is not luck - good or bad - but hard work that achieves success.  And that has been what this franchise has stood for over many years.  Any player who does not buy into that does not last long (See Haynesworth, Albert).  Even the one small malfeasance, the taping issue which arguably didn't really provide much of an advantage, has been admitted and apologized for.  I am not naïve enough to think that 100% of what they do (or any team does) is totally in line with every last rule, but they certainly seem to be otherwise playing within the confines of the rules aligned with most (but not all) other teams. 
 
We as Patriots fans, and the team itself, from Robert Kraft on down through the entire organization, have a tremendous amount to be proud of.  Not just the statistics illustrating their wins, but the reality of how they accomplished those wins.  Rather than apologizing for a non issue, their praises should be sung from the rooftops. They should be role models for other teams.  If the other teams are too obtuse to recognize that, I am not, and use them as work ethic examples to my kids and grandkids.
 

Granite Sox

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m0ckduck said:
 
 
I enjoyed this quote:
 

 

Fumbling at the goal line on a crucial play, eh? Who could possibly be so careless...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUcDGLHCOi4
 
 
And you can literally hear the piped in noise as well!  The Memory-Impaired Selective Indignants vs. The Noise Pollution Cheaterz!!!
 

nighthob

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soxfan121 said:
You've been on twitter, yes? You don't need to like, respect, or anything Bob Kravitz to know that several shitheads - who exist - wrote him some hate mail. I'm as convinced that people were mean to Kravitz on twitter as I am that the sun is coming up shortly.
I specified that. Where I'm skeptical is in this alleged avalanche of anti-semitic remarks which I'm supposed to feel sorry for him about. I'm sure there were one or two, just as I'm sure that someone on Twitter today referred to Obama as a nigger and the victims of the shooting in North Carolina as "sand niggers". Twitter sucks, but if you're a writer you're required to do it.
 
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Now, Kravitz is pretty much lying about this "I didn't realize about twitter" etc comment. His initial tweet referenced punishment (loss of draft picks). He ramped up the rhetoric immediately afterwards, calling for everyone's heads and generally acting like it was a fait accompli that the Patriots had done this deliberately. Walking it back now changes nothing and he well knows it.
Precisely. Every writer uses Twitter because it's a tool of the trade. The idea is to get people retweeting you and riling up chuckleheads into hategasms is Twitter 101. His "Aw, shucks" bullshit is just that.
 
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Kravitz and whoever leaked him the info that night (most likely Grigson, but I wouldn't be shocked if that druggie Irsay did it himself) cooked themselves up quite the symbiotic relationship, didn't they?
Given that Kravitz wrote "two excellent sources" the overwhelming odds are that it was both Grigson and Irsay. I'm sure this started with a drunken text from Irsay followed by a phone call to an angry Grigson who confirmed the story out of spite.
 
JimBoSox9 said:
But isn't the point that it's so baked into having your 15 minutes on Twitter, unless there's some reason to think that what Kravitz got was notably greater in degree than what literally every single other public figure on Twitter gets, it's simply not worth addressing or caring about?  Yes, it happened.  Yes, it's awful.  Yes, no one should do it.  These are the facts, and they are undisputed, but who gives a hoot?
 
He, more than many, signed up for it and knew it was going to be part and parcel going in.  He didn't use the fact in his apology to share emotions or teach a lesson, he did it so he could backhand the people he was 'apologizing' to like the smarmy piece of shit it is.  Forgive me if I can't summon quite the usual empathy to feel for someone getting bombarded by verbal abuse.  I'm saving it for J-Law.
 
Edit: I do realize your post was in response to the 'we're taking his word for it', which was an overreach by nighthob, who has otherwise been preachin' my kind of harsh.
Having participated in a couple of Kravitz's Twitter conversations, while I saw loads and loads of people mocking his inability to understand basic chemistry, I did not see any anti-semitic remarks. Now, this does not mean that the total was zero, I just find it slightly incredulous that I just happened to stumble into the only Twitter conversations where the total was zero. The likelihood is that it was a really small number of remarks (because it nearly always is, misogyny is far more common amongst sports fans than anti-semitism is amongst New Englanders) in a torrent of justified mockery and that Kravitz's pleas for sympathy are like that old Jackie Mason joke.
 

8slim

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There is no Rev said:
No self-respecting journalist reports uncritically that he was told the balls were weighed to determine the pressure even if he was actually told that.

Because it is utter nonsense. You don't report everything you are told. If anything, he could have reported that he was told this, but note the obvious problems with the information, which suggested to so many others that something fishy was going on and not something with the Patriots.

I spent a day or two early on in this issue hiding every post that referred to weighing the balls. It cleaned up the thread immeasurably. If Kravitz wants to be held to a lower standard than an internet fanboy forum, well, what can I say?
 
What we have learned over the past 12 months is that there are very few "journalists" that cover the NFL, certainly at a national level.  Kravitz, Mort, etc. are glorified transcribers.  They spend their time cultivating sources in order to parrot what they are told.  They ingratiate themselves with front office types, agents and league officials in order to run salacious items that they are fed, which leads to more media exposure, which leads to a higher salary.
 
Just compare two people who covered the Ray Rice situation... Don Van Natta = journalist.  Peter King =  glorified transcriber.
 
A journalist would not have used the language that Kravitz did in his initial tweets.  It was severely biased right from the jump.
 

nighthob

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Van Everyman said:
Again, Kravitz explicitly tweets that he didn't have the chance to talk to Colts officials about this. Either he's lying, the league told him or, I guess, a Colts official texted him about it and he's parsing words.
Sure, a source at the league office called some chucklehead in Indianapolis in the middle of the night to say, "Hey, no one else here knows this, but we're doing an investigation of the Patriots for deflating the footballs." An investigation so secret that the league office was caught completely off guard by the twitterstorm they awoke to the next morning. Or, Jimmy Irsay texted him after washing down his oxycontin with a quart of Glengoolie Blue and he texted Grigson for confirmation. One of those is slightly more likely than the other.
 

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8slim said:
 
What we have learned over the past 12 months is that there are very few "journalists" that cover the NFL, certainly at a national level.  Kravitz, Mort, etc. are glorified transcribers.  They spend their time cultivating sources in order to parrot what they are told.  They ingratiate themselves with front office types, agents and league officials in order to run salacious items that they are fed, which leads to more media exposure, which leads to a higher salary.
 
Just compare two people who covered the Ray Rice situation... Don Van Natta = journalist.  Peter King =  glorified transcriber.
 
A journalist would not have used the language that Kravitz did in his initial tweets.  It was severely biased right from the jump.
 
Regrettably, this post scans just as effectively if we swap out "the NFL" with "politics" and change the names accordingly.
 
At the end of the day, though, it's on the people. Journalism of all kinds has become as much a profit driven industry as anything else and divested itself of what were previously considered its putative responsibilities to the public. That means the content is demand driven, which points to a sad commentary on the state of the American public.
 
It's noteworthy that the correctives to deflategate came almost exclusively from "outsiders." And it's not good.
 

nighthob

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rodderick said:
While at the same time saying "but it' Twitter, what did he expect?" and "I have no sympathy for him".
Look, the post that everyone was remarking to was the "No matter how bad your last two weeks have been you had a better time than Kravitz." Which is asinine because Kravitz has had a fantastic month at the price of a few people saying mean things to him on Twitter. Given that it's really fucking easy to not read responses to your tweets, I don't find myself with a lot of sympathy for the guy.
 

8slim

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There is no Rev said:
 
Regrettably, this post scans just as effectively if we swap out "the NFL" with "politics" and change the names accordingly.
 
At the end of the day, though, it's on the people. Journalism of all kinds has become as much a profit driven industry as anything else and divested itself of what were previously considered its putative responsibilities to the public. That means the content is demand driven, which points to a sad commentary on the state of the American public.
 
It's noteworthy that the correctives to deflategate came almost exclusively from "outsiders." And it's not good.
 
Only thing I'll take issue with Rev is your use of the phrase "has become".  It should read "always has been".  I mean, we had TV news anchors smoking Pall Malls on the set 60 years ago, sponsor of their newscast.  We had William Randolph Hearst and yellow journalism a century ago for goodness sake.  
 
Same as it ever was.
 

Reverend

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8slim said:
 
Only thing I'll take issue with Rev is your use of the phrase "has become".  It should read "always has been".  I mean, we had TV news anchors smoking Pall Malls on the set 60 years ago, sponsor of their newscast.  We had William Randolph Hearst and yellow journalism a century ago for goodness sake.  
 
Same as it ever was.
 
Not totally true. I mean, yes, we always had shitty media. But the proliferation of outlets has altered and increased the marketization of media and led to greater market differentiation, which increases the catering to the demand of different segments. That alters the shape of the crazy.
 
With Hearst, we could blame him for being a whackjob--he was rich and powerful and did what he wanted and people consumed it no matter what. Now, media is increasingly beholden to the public so it's actually, I think, worse.
 
Imagine if any news anchor reader tried to tell America to grow up like Walter Cronkite basically did?
 
Deflategate was literally juvenile in its coverage of an issue in that the science behind it is taught in high school. There are still grown-ups in the room, but the room is too crowded and people don't have to listen.
 

dcmissle

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Note to Kravitz:

This is illustrative why your guys suck:

"Landry signed a four-year, $24 million contract with the Colts in March 2013 as a free agent, and he carried a $5.75 million cap hit for the upcoming season. The 30-year-old Landry played in 23 games (18 starts) for the Colts."

Cut today.
 

8slim

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There is no Rev said:
 
Not totally true. I mean, yes, we always had shitty media. But the proliferation of outlets has altered and increased the marketization of media and led to greater market differentiation, which increases the catering to the demand of different segments. That alters the shape of the crazy.
 
With Hearst, we could blame him for being a whackjob--he was rich and powerful and did what he wanted and people consumed it no matter what. Now, media is increasingly beholden to the public so it's actually, I think, worse.
 
Imagine if any news anchor reader tried to tell America to grow up like Walter Cronkite basically did?
 
Deflategate was literally juvenile in its coverage of an issue in that the science behind it is taught in high school. There are still grown-ups in the room, but the room is too crowded and people don't have to listen.
 
Jon Stewart?
 

ALiveH

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I thought that making death threats is illegal.  In the alternative universe where law enforcement doesn't pick and choose which laws they feel like enforcing that particular day, anyone who made a death threat on Kravitz would be already arrested.  So, justice would be served and it would be a non-issue.
 
Anyway, this is the price of being a public figure.  I'm sure just about every public figure has received some very distasteful communication ranging up to death threats.  He doesn't "deserves" the abuse he's received, but if he claims to be surprised given his behavior, then either he's completely full of it or he badly misjudged the price of notoriety.
 
Kravitz is a jackass and my best guess is he's just trying to distract us from his jackassery by manufacturing some sympathy.
 

Ed Hillel

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nattysez said:
Cross post, but I just got back.

I will spoiler for now:

Just got out. Letterman called Delflategate "kerfluffle" to suck up before he was on. Then Letterman asked about the Pats beating his Colts, to which BB said "we only beat them by 38." He clearly hates them.

Letterman asked some standard stuff, then criticized Carroll. BB came to Carroll's defense similar to WEEI interview. Letterman joked about ballboy taking 90 seconds to pee and asked if there was some horseplay. BB got serious and said absolutely not. Letterman clarified that he heard 10 balls were barely under and that one was 2PSI under and said "I heard that the Colts guy intercepted the ball and handed it to a guy who let some air out. Tell me, is that what happened?" BB took a deep breath and kind of held his breath like he really wanted to say something but was holding back, at which point the audience laughed and Pats fans cheered. Bill said Letterman should testify for the Wells investigation. Man, BB appears to hate the Colts and my impression is he may think they fucked with a ball. YMMV when you watch. Around that time I professed my love for bill and got a stern tapping on the shoulder by a page. There was more to the interview and then Letterman pulled the Lombardi out from behind his desk and BB walked off with it.

After the show, the guy in charge of the main lighting came up to me, said "I know you're a big Boston fan," and gave me a copy of the script, which was awesome.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Same interview, now conveniently embedded within this thread:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aqXfF1iPdo
 
And a clip on be BB arriving at the scene:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaupWFN-77M
 
He looks like a retired NYC real estate mogul with that long coat. Oh, and there's the obligatory "boo" from one of the passerby. 
 

theapportioner

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SeoulSoxFan said:
He looks like a retired NYC real estate mogul with that long coat. Oh, and there's the obligatory "boo" from one of the passerby. 
 
It's too bad he didn't come out of that limo with a Sopranos-style entourage. Wishcasting, but Bill Belichick fan fiction could sort of be fun.
 
Who's down with writing a fictional Amazon e-book about him?
 

Ed Hillel

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Belichick seemed to inidicate on Letterman he was getting interviewed next month. Bunker in.
 

mwonow

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There is no Rev said:
 
Regrettably, this post scans just as effectively if we swap out "the NFL" with "politics" and change the names accordingly.
 
At the end of the day, though, it's on the people. Journalism of all kinds has become as much a profit driven industry as anything else and divested itself of what were previously considered its putative responsibilities to the public. That means the content is demand driven, which points to a sad commentary on the state of the American public.
 
It's noteworthy that the correctives to deflategate came almost exclusively from "outsiders." And it's not good.
 
8slim said:
 
Only thing I'll take issue with Rev is your use of the phrase "has become".  It should read "always has been".  I mean, we had TV news anchors smoking Pall Malls on the set 60 years ago, sponsor of their newscast.  We had William Randolph Hearst and yellow journalism a century ago for goodness sake.  
 
Same as it ever was.
 
OT, but fwiw - there's definitely been a change (says the guy who stupidly bought and operated a couple of magazines 2-3 years ago). In the old days of Hearst and dominant network TV, sponsors bribed the publishers/owners, who in turn got the news hacks to write favourable pieces, ignore inconvenient truths, smoke Pall Malls, etc. In recent times - with the web making it possible for many more "opinion sources" to operate at much lower overhead - the bribes have shifted to the "talent" instead. Much lower dollar expenditures - instead of advertising, you only need to invest in a trip here, a dinner there, a gift bag, some stroking...basically, the reporters are still being bought and sold, but the transactions are more direct and easier/cheaper to effect. 
 

FL4WL3SS

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Stu Nahan said:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/22/nfl-investigators-have-visited-browns-over-in-game-texting/

http://deadspin.com/the-browns-appear-to-be-up-to-some-pre-draft-shenanigan-1685196615

Can you imagine if this was the Pats? Where is the outrage and the culture of cheating hysteria? No one gives a shit because it's the Browns. The whole "scandal" is a joke and this just shows that.
It's not interesting when you cheat and you suck. I mean, apparently they even suck at cheating too.
 
I'd rather have the microscope on my team and have 4 championships than be the Browns. Just comes with the territory. Ho hum.
 

TrotWaddles

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FL4WL3SS said:
It's not interesting when you cheat and you suck. I mean, apparently they even suck at cheating too.
 
I'd rather have the microscope on my team and have 4 championships than be the Browns. Just comes with the territory. Ho hum.
But when Johnny Clipboard gets out of rehab, he's going to be nails. Nails I tell you.
 

nighthob

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TrotWaddles said:
But when Johnny Clipboard gets out of rehab, he's going to be nails. Nails I tell you.
It's too bad that the Browns won't pair Johnny Clipboard with Clipboard Jesus. That would be a QB tandem for the ages. They would equal the greats, Laurel & Hardy, Abbot & Costello, Burns & Allen...
 

ShaneTrot

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There is a great article on Grantland by Bryan Curtis about sports writing conspiracies around the pass play by Seattle and Deflategate.
 
Doyel admits to trolling Boston in the piece:
 
Gregg Doyel, a columnist at the Indianapolis Star, published a column saying that if found guilty, the Patriots ought to be taken out of the Super Bowl. “Here’s how it works,” Doyel told me. “If you write something and it’s compelling enough, it leaves a mark. Boston went nuts over what I wrote. You know why? Because I left a mark. I’ll take that.”
 
He continued, “It also left a mark with some media people. Please don’t paint this with a broad brush, but there are a handful of people in that market that are embarrassing. That handful came after me.”
 

Leather

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ShaneTrot said:
There is a great article on Grantland by Bryan Curtis about sports writing conspiracies around the pass play by Seattle and Deflategate.
 
Doyel admits to trolling Boston in the piece:
 
"Compelling" is not synonymous with "Inflammatory."   
 

Jimbodandy

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So it'e embarrassing if a media member attacks a media member, but it's compelling for a media member to attack a coach.  This 21st century shit is beyond confusing.