#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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8slim

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Shelterdog said:
 
There's no insecurity towards Boston.  There are huge swaths of the tristate area that hate boston sports teams.
True, but I know from living in the tri-state region that there is no small amount of jealousy, although you'll never get a NY sports fan to admit it.

Boston's four major pro teams have won 8 championships, played in 12 championship games/series (with a 13th on the way), and played for the chance to win a title TWENTY times since 2001 alone.

New York's nine teams aren't anywhere close to any of that. It makes them even crazier than usual.
 

geoffm33

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drleather2001 said:
 
Um, again, he has to measure the PSI before and after to confirm he does it correctly.  Just letting some air out willy-nilly isn't proving anything.
Exactly. 
 
Plus, will the timer start when he enters a broom closet sized bathroom holding two large duffel bags full of team balls that are tied/sealed by the referees? And end when he has them all rebagged and back out the door?
 
EDIT: Would be interesting to see (if the bags are indeed sealed/tied by the refs) if there is video evidence of the bag being delivered to the sidelines with that tie/seal still in tact.
 

Rosey Ruzicka

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The debate on can you deflate 11 balls in 90 seconds is pointless, to even engage in an argument on it gives the ridiculous theory credibility.  The impact of temperature on pressure all you need, we just need one of the "scientists" with high public profile not to screw up the calculation.
 

8slim

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Return of the Dewey said:
 
I'm not a Pats fan, and, even though I'm a Jets fan, I'm not an extreme Pats hater (NFL has always been something to watch while I wait for basketball and baseball seasons to start).  But, as CT native from the Hartford area, our experience with Kraft takes what he says with a grain of salt. 
As a fellow CT resident, that situation really wasn't about Kraft misrepresenting things. Our former crooked Governor offered him a free stadium and Kraft would've been stupid not to accept. Once the state started to backpedal (as we should have, it was a colossally terrible deal for us) he walked away. Rowland was butthurt about it, but he ended up in jail so I'd say he was the guy who's statements needed to be taken with salt. Mountains of it.
 

amarshal2

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I think it's a fools errand to try and prove that deflating the footballs in the 90 seconds is impossible. Of course it's possible. It doesn't take away from the fact that all the science supports the Pats and the NFL will find no evidence.

Edit: rosey said it better up a couple
 

Return of the Dewey

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8slim said:
As a fellow CT resident, that situation really wasn't about Kraft misrepresenting things. Our former crooked Governor offered him a free stadium and Kraft would've been stupid not to accept. Once the state started to backpedal (as we should have, it was a colossally terrible deal for us) he walked away. Rowland was butthurt about it, but he ended up in jail so I'd say he was the guy who's statements needed to be taken with salt. Mountains of it.
Agree to disagree.
 

Morning Woodhead

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Florio has always been bad, but this is some next level shit now.  The more proof that comes out to refute the claim on cheating, he keeps doubling down.  Somehow, its up to the Patriots to prove their innocence, even though the NFL has not provided 1 official fact about their "case". 
 
I know it's click bait, but the mouth breathers don't understand that.  Save us PFTCommenter
 

tim mccarver

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Has anyone explained why the Locker Room Attendant only took 90 seconds. Why not 2 minutes or 3 or 10!
Did he need to be somewhere- was he on some tight locker room attendant schedule.
He really really needed to take only 90 seconds to deflate 11 balls? did he not do the 12th because he ran out of time?
 
Are people really taking this seriously? 
 
Are people this invested in the Pats being guilty that they will twist and squeeze any square peg into a round hole? 
 
The Pats can't win here.
People are dumb.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Rosey Ruzicka said:
The debate on can you deflate 11 balls in 90 seconds is pointless, to even engage in an argument on it gives the ridiculous theory credibility.  The impact of temperature on pressure all you need, we just need one of the "scientists" with high public profile not to screw up the calculation.
The 90 is a dumb red herring anyway, since it implies he was rushing because...? He knew there was an investigation?
 

Harry Hooper

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Jed Zeppelin said:
Submitting an underinflated ball isn't a rules infraction.
 
I hate to tell you this, but the groundwork for the next phase has already been laid. See what I posted abut the Newsday story last night:
 

Harry Hooper said:
Nice job moving the goalposts in that Newsday piece:
 
His team has been accused of under-inflating footballs - possibly on purpose 
 
 
 

Soxfan in Fla

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The obvious answer here is the ball attendant spread the Colts balls on the floor and pissed all over them. Hot piss prevents deflation.
 

NWsoxophile

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This is surreal. The Patriots could potentially lose a draft pick(s) and see both coaches and players get suspended because a guy took a piss.
 

Harry Hooper

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Return of the Dewey said:
 
I'm not a Pats fan, and, even though I'm a Jets fan, I'm not an extreme Pats hater (NFL has always been something to watch while I wait for basketball and baseball seasons to start).  But, as CT native from the Hartford area, our experience with Kraft takes what he says with a grain of salt. 
 
I think your example suggests the opposite. Kraft looked so obviously unhappy at the big CT announcement with the governor that it indicates Bob isn't very deceptive.
 

Leather

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NWsoxophile said:
This is surreal. The Patriots could potentially lose a draft pick(s) and see both coaches and players get suspended because a guy took a piss.
 
I don't think any of those options are on the table anymore, but never say never with this league I guess.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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tim mccarver said:
Has anyone explained why the Locker Room Attendant only took 90 seconds. Why not 2 minutes or 3 or 10!
Did he need to be somewhere- was he on some tight locker room attendant schedule.
He really really needed to take only 90 seconds to deflate 11 balls? did he not do the 12th because he ran out of time?
 
Are people really taking this seriously? 
 
Are people this invested in the Pats being guilty that they will twist and squeeze any square peg into a round hole? 
 
The Pats can't win here.
People are dumb.
Anything longer than 90 seconds and people get suspicious. Or it took him 90 seconds to unzip, piss, rezip and wash his hands. Can't imagine he does it that fast. Must have deflated balls instead, because it would be much easier to do that perfectly to 11 balls in 90 seconds than take a mere leak.
 

OnWisc

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drleather2001 said:
 
Um, again, he has to measure the PSI before and after to confirm he does it correctly.  Just letting some air out willy-nilly isn't proving anything.
Playing devil's advocate, wouldn't it be possible that if the Patriots routinely deflated footballs over the span of 90 seconds in a bathroom, they could have a device that both releases pressure and shows it on a gauge?

Not actually making this argument, but more the one that people are going to believe what they want to believe. They could get records that show the ball boy sent a 20 line text message to his girlfriend while in the bathroom and people will claim that he probably wrote it beforehand and sent it from the bathroom as a way to cover what he was doing. Or they'll go back to believing the Pats did something on the sideline.

At the very least, the majority of the media and fans will downshift to the "Pats are stretching the rules by submitting footballs they know are under-inflated, so they're still cheaters." If Goodell survives this, he changes the wording in the rule book, and it gets referred to as the Patriot rule and serves as evidence to anyone who wants it that the Patriots are cheaters and the NFL actually accomplished something here.

I think this is over. The NFL has nothing and no punishment is forthcoming- a fact which will probably be announced in a brief press release on MLB opening day. The jury in the court of public opinion reached its decision and headed home days ago. All that's left to come out here are a few more peripheral facts that are unlikely to change anyone's mind and will just serve as argument fodder for one side or the other the next time a Patriots fan argues with Team X fan at a bar or family gathering.

Best thing to come from this is the whitelist/blacklist which I think should be posted elsewhere and expanded to include competent journalists in areas beyond sports. Unless Goodell loses his job over this. Then that'd be the best.
 

lexrageorge

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NWsoxophile said:
This is surreal. The Patriots could potentially lose a draft pick(s) and see both coaches and players get suspended because a guy took a piss.
The chances of that happening are much smaller than the media wants you to believe.
 
The NFLPA will back Brady all the way through the appeals process; don't forget that Brady was one of the named plaintiffs on the NFLPA's lawsuit during the lockout.  
 
Kraft can resort to the nuclear option if draft picks and/or coaching staff suspensions are implemented.  And after hearing his comments Monday I do believe he will.  
 
Goodell could have gotten away with a token fine initially.  After causing this to blow up and feeding the fire with deliberate leaks, there's little chance of the NFL getting anything other than temporary embarrassment. 
 

accidentalsuccess

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I honestly can't believe that the mediots are grasping at some pit-stop like indycar deflation of 12 footballs rather than 'hey the guy took a piss'.  
 
Not to mention Rogers admission that they submit over the limit as 'gamesmanship'.    I only watch the NFL for the pats and once BB and TB12 retire I don't think I'll watch it at all.  I'll be on to MLS/EPL/other hobbies.
 

dcmissle

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So we have more leaking from the NFL post-Glazer, the statement from a League source that it would "be easy to do?"

Wells needs to wrap his arms around this -- take everything out of the League office -- and get Goodell to issue gag order.

The leaking has been systemic and harmful to the Pats at every term. I am now pretty damn confident that the refs did not gauge test these balls.
 

Harry Hooper

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How long until this flips to inflategate, where the attendant is accused of pumping more air into the Colts balls?
 

TSC

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NWsoxophile said:
This is surreal. The Patriots could potentially lose a draft pick(s) and see both coaches and players get suspended because a guy took a piss.
 
No, they couldn't. There's no way at this point there's anything more than a minimal fine - barring an admission of nefarious doings by a Patriots employee.
 

Devizier

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Folks, take a second to realize that the national media is pretty much moving on from this. They got nothin'.
 
ESPN's website has basically moved on from this.
 
All that's left is the trolls. Don't feed the trolls.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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accidentalsuccess said:
I honestly can't believe that the mediots are grasping at some pit-stop like indycar deflation of 12 footballs rather than 'hey the guy took a piss'.  
 
At this point, why is anything the media does a surprise.  They go for the story/angle/theory that best prolongs the story so they can keep "reporting" and drawing views/clicks.  Always.
 
21st century journalism is not compatible with Occum's Razor.
 

Steve Dillard

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I want Florio to be my D.A. We could say that there is some indications that maybe a bank was robbed, and using the surveillance camera, arrest everyone who touched the money (even if its not clear any money was missing).

I see the closing argument now:
 
But it also becomes difficult to declare innocence, given that the contents of the surveillance video reveal an employee of the Bank taking the money into a place where, in theory, something could have been done to it.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The assumption of guilt really fucked the league over here. When you start out "distraught" over something, it's tough to backtrack to "nothing happened."

I think the retroactive rule change is spot on, only face-saving move they have left in the bag. Unfortunately it will be effective and future "journalists" will use it as an example of the Pats tarnished legacy.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Florio's source also state that doing an atomic sit-up would be a "piece of cake" and when pressed further said "fuck it bro, I'll do one right now, bro."
 

Norm loves Vera

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It figures a Ravens fan would create a petition to oust Patriots from SB.

 

40,000 Signatures !!!!!









Scott Latshaw


Jan 27, 2015 — A week later we now know the balls were intentionally deflated in the Raven's game as well. The locker room attendant the NFL has been questioning will eventually spill his guts and make the connection to Brady. Although it's the 11th hour, I will always believe in miracles. Thanks to everyone who signed the petition !!! We made The Sporting News !!!
https://www.change.org/p/nfl-immediately-disqualify-patriots-and-replay-afc-championship-between-the-colts-and-ravens/u/9430226
 

Shelterdog

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Does anyone know if Paul, Weiss was involved in the initial interviews in Boston? It struck me as interesting that they announced PW's involvement on Friday a couple days after the various Patriots employees had been interviewed, leaks were springing all over the place, Schefter had said the league was having trouble finding any evidence of wrongdoing, etc.  My gut reaction is that they brought in Wells to fix a fucked up investigation that the league had started.
 

Koufax

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Back to the T&R statement that the balls were delivered underinflated.  Looking at the transcript of Saturday's BB statement to the press, it seems likely.  The transcript reads:  "When the footballs are delivered to the officials locker room, the officials were asked to inflate them to 12.5 psi."  That certainly suggests that the team knew that the balls were underinflated at the time of delivery and was putting the onus on the officials to correct them.  I can well imagine that the officials felt the balls and decided to do nothing because they felt fine. 
 

wibi

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DrewDawg said:
 
Skipping right over the fact that if you deflate for, say 2 seconds, not 1.5 (because it's VERY easy to do that in your head, right?) the balls are too deflated. Or if you go .8 seconds, and not 1.2 then it's not enough, and you take 3 seconds to figure out our next move AND YOU'VE BLOWN YOU TIMELINE!!!
 
Come on folks.
 
90 seconds here:
 
Not only is it just less than 2 seconds of deflation per ball (already at 22-25 seconds), each ball has to be set aside, so you don't double up. So add in a second or two per ball to fish from bag, a second to situate and insert needle, a second to set aside after deflation, and another 2 seconds per ball to put BACK in bag and it's easily 8 seconds per ball at an absolute fucking minimum. That's 88 seconds if you didn't have any fuck-ups. Leaving him 2 seconds to close and lock door, set Colts bag down, unlock door, and leave.
 
Stop looking for shit that didn't happen.
 
Its pretty simple to setup something that would release pressure until it hit a certain point so you wouldnt even need to watch the gauge.  Just stick the needle in and let it deflate to the set point. 
 

kartvelo

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At this point, knowing what we know now, if the league attempts to impose any punishment at all and refuses to make a public apology, if I'm Kraft I sue the league.
 
DA: Mr. Goodell, would you identify this book for us?
 
RG: It's a copy of the official NFL rule book.
 
DA: Thank you. Could you point out for us all which rule you believe was violated by the New England Patriots?
 

DegenerateSoxFan

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I'm still waiting for some member of the media to point out that no one has produced any evidence whatsoever that the Pats deliberately broke the rules.

Then I remember that these are the same bleating Nancy Grace wannabes that deliberately failed to mention (and still do) that "spygate" wasn't about stealing signals, but simply the location of the camera.

I really hope that the Pats are at least 1/10 as pissed off as I am about this.
 

OnWisc

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drleather2001 said:
 
I don't think any of those options are on the table anymore, but never say never with this league I guess.
I agree. When I read that I thought I had ended up back on page 1 of the thread and had to check the date.
 

am_dial

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I've read pretty much every post in this thread since the moment it began. Yesterday afternoon, while re-reading Fernando Pessoa's The Book of Disquiet, I came upon this passage (fragment #104 in "A Factless Autobiography"), which seems beyond appropriate here:
 
"No intelligent idea can gain general acceptance unless some stupidity is mixed in with it. Collective thought is stupid because it's collective. Nothing passes into the realm of the collective without leaving at the border -- like a toll -- most of the intelligence it contained."
 

Harry Hooper

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kartvelo said:
At this point, knowing what we know now, if the league attempts to impose any punishment at all and refuses to make a public apology, if I'm Kraft I sue the league.
 
DA: Mr. Goodell, would you identify this book for us?
 
RG: It's a copy of the official NFL rule book.
 
DA: Thank you. Could you point out for us all which rule you believe was violated by the New England Patriots?
 
 
The Commish can just cite that pledge for fair play that he concocted. Pats would have to depend on Tagliabue to fix the mess once again.
 

OnWisc

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DegenerateSoxFan said:
I'm still waiting for some member of the media to point out that no one has produced any evidence whatsoever that the Pats deliberately broke the rules.

Then I remember that these are the same bleating Nancy Grace wannabes that deliberately failed to mention (and still do) that "spygate" wasn't about stealing signals, but simply the location of the camera.

I really hope that the Pats are at least 1/10 as pissed off as I am about this.
Are you also still waiting for the US Basketball team to get their gold medals from the 1972 Olympics?
 

DJnVa

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Ed Hillel said:
I think you're going to lose this debate. It's definitely possible, but it's also possible he peed and the ideal gas law and/or a lack of properly inspecting the balls pregame explains everything.
 
I don't think it is possible--not to the exacting state that it was done. There's no way he can spend 8 seconds per ball and be done everything in 90 seconds, nailing each deflation at 1.5 seconds. You can't do that in your head without a mistake. One mistake and your timeline is shot.
 
 

JimBoSox9

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kartvelo said:
At this point, knowing what we know now, if the league attempts to impose any punishment at all and refuses to make a public apology, if I'm Kraft I sue the league.
 
DA: Mr. Goodell, would you identify this book for us?
 
RG: It's a copy of the official NFL rule book.
 
DA: Thank you. Could you point out for us all which rule you believe was violated by the New England Patriots?
 
Who is DA in this lawsuit?
 

Leather

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Koufax said:
Back to the T&R statement that the balls were delivered underinflated.  Looking at the transcript of Saturday's BB statement to the press, it seems likely.  The transcript reads:  "When the footballs are delivered to the officials locker room, the officials were asked to inflate them to 12.5 psi."  That certainly suggests that the team knew that the balls were underinflated at the time of delivery and was putting the onus on the officials to correct them.  I can well imagine that the officials felt the balls and decided to do nothing because they felt fine. 
 
Not really.  
 
I bring my car into the shop and say "Hey, make sure the tires are inflated properly", that doesn't mean I know that they are definitively below the recommended pressure.  
 

amarshal2

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DrewDawg said:
 
I don't think it is possible--not to the exacting state that it was done. There's no way he can spend 8 seconds per ball and be done everything in 90 seconds, nailing each deflation at 1.5 seconds. You can't do that in your head without a mistake. One mistake and your timeline is shot.
 
What exacting state? Sounds like there was plenty of variation.