#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
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jacklamabe65 said:
Harry Hooper said:
Rob Finnerty from FOX/CBS Bakersfield, CA. He's a former anchor/reporter for New England Cable News (NECN).
staz said:
That's to be expected on gossip shows like Today and GMA.
More alarming is that this was actually discussed this morning on CBS's Face the Nation by Bob Schieffer and a panel of "experts." I can pretty much guarantee this wasn't Bob's call, either.
Hell, even MSNBC's Hardball devoted its entire show on Thursday night to this tripe. Chris Matthews actually deviated from his regularly-scheduled railings against all things conservative for the first time in decades.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but the Sports Science piece was both pulled offline and replaced before Bill Nye's comments.CoffeeNerdness said:
Stu Nahan said:
On the contrary, 30 other teams played by one understanding and those two teams gained an advantage that year by loading money into the uncapped year. That is the same nature of violation as the other salary cap violators. The league explicitly said that teams who did that would be penalized---that's no different than any other salary cap violation.
Ed Werder @Edwerderespn 21m21 minutes ago
When told of suspected cheating by #Pats, #NFL tried to catch them in act rather than reminding them of rules. Is something wrong with that?
When told of suspected cheating by #Pats, #NFL tried to catch them in act rather than reminding them of rules. Is something wrong with that?
AardsmaToZupcic said:
Actually, I assumed it was an ESPN segment before going back and seeing that I was incorrect.
Corsi said:
If this was an actual honest-to-god, planned-in-advance, NFL-led sting operation, and it included a re-inflation of under-pressure balls at half time (thereby destroying the evidence), then they are a clown show many levels worse than I could possibly have imagined.
Yes because if you plan it before what was the intention to send the Colts to the SB if found guilty ? Also if that's the plan and you can't bring hard evidence in 5 days what the fuck is/was going on ? His question given his position at ESPN just invites so many more....Corsi said:
The level of stupidity inflates by every statement these people make. It's hard to fathom.Corsi said:
bsartist618 said:
I can't tell if it's a serious question. Is he asking if its ok for the NFL to compromise the integrity of the AFC Championship in order to try to catch a team that they think might be compromising the integrity of previous games?
As dcmissle pointed out pages back, a properly run sting operation records the relevant evidence. If this was supposed to be a sting and the refs' initial check of all the balls wasn't recorded or memorialized in some way, AND they destroyed the evidence by reinflating the balls at halftime, it would literally be the least competent thing done on Goodell's watch.Kull said:
Or he might be really protecting the integrity of the guy who had egg all over his face the last time he reported a sourced Patriot story. Mr. Chris Mortenson because if the league announces nothing/no punishment his article and the fervor it caused is going to get a lot of justified scrutiny from higher ups in Bristol . I imagine behind the scenes it would be fascinating to see the actual belief of these reporters ...GregHarris said:
Right is this what Werder is saying happened? An actual sting?Kull said:
Jesus why is so hard for these sports reporters to give us some detailed info on this story, a week out? The journalists/reporters that cry about just doing their job and covering the NFL investigation have not done any actual work. They just sit back and wait for the NFL to tell them something. And in the meantime, opinion piece after opinion piece. Come on, do some reporting for once in your lives.
I think it's pretty clear by the question that Werder thinks NFL shouldn't be running a sting. And he's right about that.
Then again, Sheriff Roger is rarely constrained by good judgment either
Then again, Sheriff Roger is rarely constrained by good judgment either
Bob Ryan on this morning's the Sports Reporters was pretty negative. Talking about the point BB made that for a long time (I think he meant since Spygate but didn't want to use the word) the Patriots have erred on the side, stayed very far from the line of doing anything to break rules, Ryan said something like oh yeah right, you've done the opposite. Is Ryan a Belichick hater? Have to say I was flipping around the dial just getting up and couldn't go back to hear it again because I'd switched to that ESPN station just before this point came up. I don't see a repeat of this Sports Reporters today on my guide. Between the side Jackie M. took, with no hard evidence, and Ryan today, what is it with the local reporters not standing up for the team? Again, I'd like to see the Ryan one again. Anybody else see it? Still, this gripe of mine with the two of them is about 1/20th of what it might have been before Coach dazzled the world with his football internal pressure project report of yesterday.
The "sting" shit is pure conjecture. There isn't a shred of evidence thus far that lends credence to that theory.
rodderick said:
Agreed. And thus, it's on exactly the same factual ground as the theory that Pats did anything to the balls.
Agreed. It's 100x more probable that the league got forced into investigating something that they themselves deemed pretty minor, and then got caught flat-footed by the media's determination to blow it up into Watergate mtultiplied by Dr. Faustrodderick said:
I believe that Harbaugh and Pagano talked before the game, and I believe they told the league during the game. Sting operation seems like a load of horseshit.
amarshal2 said:
Belichick identified that there are a lot of questions, on a lot of levels, that he wasn't attempting to address with his press conference.
(Although this will not happen, but a guy can wish) I would love to see the Wells/NFL investigation broadened in scope to include the events leading up to the game. In other words, forensic evidence and electronic communications evidence has been collected. I would love if that electronic communications information included phone calls between the Ravens and Colts. To what extent is the integrity of the game being impacted if two teams conspire to try and catch a third team in a 'gotcha'? We already have motive and evidence in the form of public acknowledgement that Pagano and Harbaugh spoke in the days leading up to the game. Now, insert the NFL and the referees, to be cast as witless accomplices. Irsay drops a dime to the NFL and feeds the info to Kravitz. Pre-empts what is likely a behind-the-scenes NFL inquiry and blows the lid off the story. Crazy? Sure. But no crazier than alleged foul play by the Patriots.
As someone said (pages and pages ago), Belichick can't go anywhere to get his reputation back; if exonerated, it is not enough for the NFL to clear the Patriots. The Ravens and/or the Colts should be held accountable for initiating this whole disaster. No way Goodell has the stones to do anything to them, but rest assured Krafty and Belichick will never let either of those teams forget it.
One point on the Bill Nye spot. The conversation was obviously edited to fit into 25-30 seconds - and likely by a producer who didn't understand the science.
In the main cut they used, he was taking issue with the rubbing process heating the footballs and increasing pressure (albeit without knowing the type of rubbing, level of heat generated, etc.).
However, the piece was framed as undermining the Patriots' entire case even though what he actually said was pretty fluffy and provided no assessment of the impact of climate conditions.
In the main cut they used, he was taking issue with the rubbing process heating the footballs and increasing pressure (albeit without knowing the type of rubbing, level of heat generated, etc.).
However, the piece was framed as undermining the Patriots' entire case even though what he actually said was pretty fluffy and provided no assessment of the impact of climate conditions.
rodderick said:
Thanks to the NFL's refusal to release almost anything substantive, we are reduced to reading tea leaves in this case (as with so many others). But if you read his text, it's a statement of fact. In order for the NFL to warn the Pats ahead of time, that would mean, "before the game". If the NFL knew of the allegations ahead of time, said nothing to the Pats, and just focused on collecting data (however poorly), then it's a "sting".
If a sting, Mortenson and King would not be laying low and instead breathlessly reporting the pre-game psi tests.
Someone dropped a dime just at halftime, which is why they re-inflated the same balls, and then discovered that they, to use real sting substance, forgot to mark the bills before the payoff. So they turned to Ref and said "but you tested these before the game, right?" and his answer was "Of course, umm".
All the science on change in pressure distracts from the real point that nobody knows the starting psi.
I think BB talked about the "rubbing/prepping" not to say that they actually got up to the 12.5 test limit, but to cover themselves from an accusation that they intentionally submitted low inflated balls. Unfortunately everyone is seizing on that and arguing "how come the Colts balls passed". The one criticism I have for the presser is that BB focused more on how the balls might have gotten to 12.5 before the test, rather than stating plainly "we submit balls but have no idea if they are at the 12.5 bottom threshold. That is for the refs to determine. The rule expressly puts the onus on them to determine, not for us to pre-determine.
And, incidentally, it wasnt important enough for us to try and game the system, as evidenced by the fact that all balls were close, and indeed, the 12th ball was within range.
Someone dropped a dime just at halftime, which is why they re-inflated the same balls, and then discovered that they, to use real sting substance, forgot to mark the bills before the payoff. So they turned to Ref and said "but you tested these before the game, right?" and his answer was "Of course, umm".
All the science on change in pressure distracts from the real point that nobody knows the starting psi.
I think BB talked about the "rubbing/prepping" not to say that they actually got up to the 12.5 test limit, but to cover themselves from an accusation that they intentionally submitted low inflated balls. Unfortunately everyone is seizing on that and arguing "how come the Colts balls passed". The one criticism I have for the presser is that BB focused more on how the balls might have gotten to 12.5 before the test, rather than stating plainly "we submit balls but have no idea if they are at the 12.5 bottom threshold. That is for the refs to determine. The rule expressly puts the onus on them to determine, not for us to pre-determine.
And, incidentally, it wasnt important enough for us to try and game the system, as evidenced by the fact that all balls were close, and indeed, the 12th ball was within range.
I saw it. It was very disappointing from a guy who I have always admired. I don't think the local sportswriters have any obligation to "stand up" for the Pats. But his argument was basically Belichick was lying because everyone knows he pushes the envelope with the rules. No evidence of examples of what he meant by this of course.Al Zarilla said:
If the NFL knew of the allegations ahead of time, the Pats sideline would've been under some intense surveillance and this case would have already been solved by now.Kull said:
If you think a team is going to try to mess with the footballs, and the only proof you intend to collect is checking to see if they were under the required amount at halftime, it's the worst fucking sting operation I've ever seen.
If they were paying attention to what the ballboys were doing in the sidelines and found no evidence of tampering, case closed.
It makes sense, well, except for the fact that Harbaugh thinks the world of Belichick and considers BB his mentor.jimbobim said:
EDIT: This isn't reporting, so much as making shit up for entertainment. Violin is jumping through the looking glass head-first because Harbaugh praised BB last friday.
PedroKsBambino said:
I am so jaded and burned out by the press, I have no idea what to think!
rodderick said:
I'm on record (many pages earlier) as stating the evidence points toward "not a sting". But Werder's tweet basically says there was one. Which is surprising, but then he could easily just be guessing.
But to your point - intensive surveillance of the Pats sideline would not have solved the case, because everything already points toward "no sideline manipulation". Cameras following the ballboys every second of the game would prove nothing other than, "Well it wasn't those guys while they were on the sidelines".
Figured this was as good a place to share as anywhere. Lee Nelson, a news anchor on a local station in Portland, posted this on his public Facebook page calling out ESPN on their hypocrisy over this whole mess. An entertaining read. Sadly, he's calling for ESPN to be journalists when clearly they've never strived to be actual journalists.
https://www.facebook.com/LeeNelsonnews/posts/354367871415834
https://www.facebook.com/LeeNelsonnews/posts/354367871415834
If they didn't tamper with the footballs after receiving them from the refs, the case is absolutely closed. What else could have happened that would place the guilt on the Patriots?Kull said:
EricFeczko said:
The one that has fallen the deepest for me is without a doubt Volin. That Globe piece has absolutely NO new information, only hints at some voices behind the "Patriot walls" and pieces together contradicting quotes to create yet another extension of this controversy.
We all know many graduate to the national media after covering the Patriots. The one who should is Kyed (although I hope not). Volin will be a cheap knockoff of Rappoport (aka Rapshit) and that's indeed a low standard.
I saw it too, and mentioned it in an earlier post. The media generally are framing the issue as the latest example of repeated rules violations. And furthermore, that Belichick has a history of deceptive public statements. Neither is true, with the exception of spygate, although we realize how blown out of proportion that was. Minimal professional standards would seem to demand that one of these "journalists" put together a list of transgressions, if they want to reference them to frame, or inflame, the current situation.Ralphwiggum said:
https://twitter.com/SharksOfVegas/status/559404286988533760
BREAKING -Source CONFIRMS NFL Investigation is more about the officials than the Patriots.
BREAKING -Source CONFIRMS NFL Investigation is more about the officials than the Patriots.
Has Werder even done any reporting or investigating throughout this whole mess, or just tweet his inane conjecture like mostly everyone else? I wouldn't take anything he says right now as fact.
Can't have deflate gate until you know the original flate. Can only have that if officials did job. They didn't.
BB- “When the balls were delivered to the officials’ locker room, the officials were asked to inflate them to 12.5 [pounds per square inch]. What exactly they did I don’t know."
"You sure about that 5 minutes?"
"I got no more use for this guy."
BB- “When the balls were delivered to the officials’ locker room, the officials were asked to inflate them to 12.5 [pounds per square inch]. What exactly they did I don’t know."
"You sure about that 5 minutes?"
"I got no more use for this guy."
By the way, I just watched that Bill Nye piece. He was only talking about the Belichick claim that you can materially increase psi by rubbing up the football. People seem to think he was challenging the claims that air pressure drops with temperature, but he didn't say anything about that point. To my knowledge, no one has verified the claim that you can, in fact, materially increase psi just by rubbing up the ball, and I remain unconvinced on that point.
To be fair, if some ref gets fucked over for not checking the pressure of every single ball and just going by feel, it's bullshit as well. There's absolutely no reason to be so strict about pressure.
B H Kim said:
Isn't it just "rubbing up" the ball but using motorized tools to do so? That could be a lot of friction & heating up.
