#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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FFCI

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Hope this post adds something to this megathread, and maybe brings a bit of a fresh perspective to the “controversy”
 
“Facts”
11/16 – Patriots defeat Colts 42-20 in Indianapolis. 
Colts intercept Brady and equipment staff “discovers” ball is underinflated.
Colts do nothing (apparently) – nothing is mentioned to league and/or league does nothing.  Nothing is mentioned to media and/or media does not run with story.  No outrage by Colts players about integrity of game being compromised.
 
11/30 – Patriots lose to Packers 26-21 in Green Bay.
 
During telecast, Jim Nantz shares story about conversation with Aaron Rodgers in which he discusses his “preparation” of game balls – that he tries to overinflate the balls beyond what the rules specify.  That he hopes the game balls get by the inspection process of the officials.  He alludes that in the past, when officials discovered the footballs were overinflated, the officials would release some of the air.
No media outrage, no concerns or questions about the integrity of the game were raised.  No NFL investigation or comment.
 
 
11/30 - Carolina loses at Minnesota 31-13
 
During the games, both teams place game balls under heaters - in violation of NFL rules with regard to game balls.  No penalties, controversy or media storm was created.
 
 
Sunday - 1/18 - AFC Conference Championship game
 
Tom Brady selects footballs to be used in Conference Championship Game – balls are provided to the officials and marked for game play.
(Whether or not they were inspected and measured is not yet confirmed).
 
Game Plays:
 
Indy Drive 1:       3 & Out
 
NE Drive 1:          3 & Out
 
NE Punt:              Kicking Ball (not under question) – Indy Fumbles
 
NE Drive 2:          6 Plays, 26 Yard Touchdown Drive:  4 Runs, 2 Passes
 
Indy Drive 2:       11 Play Drive, ending in Missed 51-yd FG
 
NE Drive 3:          8 Plays , 59 Yard Touchdown Drive:  2 Passes, 2 Incomplete Passes, 4 Rushes (including a                               Fumble,
recovered by NE)
 
Indy Drive 3:       5 Plays and Punt
 
NE Drive 4:          10 Plays:  5 Runs, 5 Passes – ending in an interception on the last passing attempt
 
Indy Drive 4:       12 Play, 93 Yard Touchdown Drive
 
NE Drive 5:          16 Plays, Ending in 21 Yard FG:  7 Rushes, 2 Completions, 7 Incomplete passes
 
Indy Drive 5:       Knee – ending the first half
 
At halftime, footballs used by New England are found to be underinflated, below the 12.5 minimum PSI
(NFL has not published the measurements)
 
Second Half – Original Patriots Footballs replaced with properly inflated footballs (unconfirmed)
Patriots outscore Colts 28-0.
 
Where is the integrity of the game jeopardized?
 
If this was a major circumvention of the rules, unsportsmanlike, CHEATING – why didn’t the Colts scream bloody murder during the first half following the interception?  Why didn’t they require a measurement of the footballs in the first half?
 

Leather

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Burt Reynoldz said:
There's a persecution complex going on here which is very strange to me.  The Patriots aren't some hated team, at all.  If anything, it's the opposite - Old White Men love fawning over The Patriot Way and the Genius of Belichick and whatnot.  If this happened to the Seahawks, or the 49ers, or the Cowboys, or the Broncos, or whoever, it would be just as big of a story, especially if it happened right before the Super Bowl, where the media cycle has nothing else to do but report on it. 
 
Um, no, not since 2006.  
 
EDIT:, and really, not since 2004.  
 
Sometime around 2005, people started rooting against the Patriots because they were, frankly, too successful.  Winning 3 SB in 4 years does that; it's natural.
 
Then Spygate broke, and they started "running up the score", and the tide fully turned against them.   As a Pats fan living outside of New England, it was palpable:  from 2001-2004, people offered praise, congratulations, etc...   Then it turned to stilted "respect" and "Well, I'm rooting for [team X] because the Pats have won so much.  Kind of sick of them."   Then in 2007-2014, it was "Jesus, they never go away.  And Spygate.  Brady's a pretty boy."
 
 Nobody's who not a New England fan has rooted for the Patriots in any major game (with some exceptions) in years.
 

DJnVa

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You know this would seem to be a PERFECT time for someone like Bill Simmons to start a "national conversation" about how the media is acting, and how it seems to be 100% generated because of who it is.
 
Yet instead he tweets about the Patriots cutting Brady.
 

Ed Hillel

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Here
[quote name="Burt Reynoldz" post="5864129" timestamp="[/quote]The Patriots aren't some hated team, at all.  If anything, it's the opposite - Old White Men love fawning over The Patriot Way and the Genius of Belichick and whatnot. [/quote]

Can't tell if serious.
 

Gambler7

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Matt Chatham is a great follow on Twitter. He is grilling Bert Breer right now for some of his statements. 
 

pappymojo

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yecul said:
In the court of public opinion the future outcome of this is irrelevant. That has all been decided. All Pats fans can hope for is limited punishment. The NFL will do something, but whether it's just a fine or also includes suspension/loss of picks is of concern. Again though, the facts are out of scope for both those things -- public opinion and the NFL's action. Neither needs more than the accusation and the desire to quell emotions, respectively.
 
BB is a dick and an asshole so he doesn't get leeway and gets undue attention. What can you do?
 
I think it's more accurate to say that Belichick is a dick to the press and so doesn't get leeway from the press but the point remains valid.
 

rodderick

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Burt Reynoldz said:
There's a persecution complex going on here which is very strange to me.  The Patriots aren't some hated team, at all.  If anything, it's the opposite - Old White Men love fawning over The Patriot Way and the Genius of Belichick and whatnot.  If this happened to the Seahawks, or the 49ers, or the Cowboys, or the Broncos, or whoever, it would be just as big of a story, especially if it happened right before the Super Bowl, where the media cycle has nothing else to do but report on it. 
Really, the Patriots aren't a hated team at all? This is the wrongest statement to come out of this mess, congratulations.
 

JimD

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Burt Reynoldz said:
Honest question - do people really think that if this story was coming from the other side, i.e. if the underinflated balls belonged to the Seahawks, that the media fire storm wouldn't be as bad? It's not about some grudge against the Patriots, it's about a semi-stupid "controversy" which can be exploited for mass ratings during the biggest sports-media event of the year.  Since it happened to the Pats, it's getting tied in to Spygate, etc.  If it happened to the Seahawks, it would get tied in to Pete Carroll at USC. 
 
Somebody should ask the NFL - if there was suspicion about a team in the championship game not inflating its footballs properly, why didn't you do the halftime testing in both the AFC *and* the NFC title games?
 

DJnVa

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Burt Reynoldz said:
There's a persecution complex going on here which is very strange to me.  The Patriots aren't some hated team, at all.  If anything, it's the opposite - Old White Men love fawning over The Patriot Way and the Genius of Belichick and whatnot.  If this happened to the Seahawks, or the 49ers, or the Cowboys, or the Broncos, or whoever, it would be just as big of a story, especially if it happened right before the Super Bowl, where the media cycle has nothing else to do but report on it. 
 
You are 100% incorrect.
 
http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/obnoxiousbostonfan/2014/08/patriots_most_hated_nfl_team_in_world.html
 

CaptainLaddie

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sodenj5 said:
If the NFL can gather no tangible evidence of actual tampering with the balls after the officials checked them before the game, they should fine the Pats and be done with it. This whole thing has become 10x the story of the biggest football game of the year, which is bad for the NFL. Fine them and say something along the lines of "as an organization, the Patriots are responsible for the balls they use during the game and as a league we will be taking measures to make sure ball pressure is a more closely monitored thing in the future." 
 
The longer this thing lingers, the worse it looks for the NFL, as people keep dredging up Ray RIce and the Spygate debacles. These 2 weeks should be about building up to the greatest spectacle in sports. Instead, 50 people are screaming questions at Brady about how he likes his balls. 
 
So they should fine a team because.......?  Shit, weather can account for the change in pressure in the ball.  Just fining to fine?
 
 

pappymojo

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ivanvamp said:
 
I agree.  But I don't think our view is the general consensus out there.  
I like Sherman too.  Great player.  Works hard and he is funny.  Would love him on my team. 
 

Comfortably Lomb

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Burt Reynoldz said:
There's a persecution complex going on here which is very strange to me.  The Patriots aren't some hated team, at all.  If anything, it's the opposite - Old White Men love fawning over The Patriot Way and the Genius of Belichick and whatnot.  If this happened to the Seahawks, or the 49ers, or the Cowboys, or the Broncos, or whoever, it would be just as big of a story, especially if it happened right before the Super Bowl, where the media cycle has nothing else to do but report on it. 
 
Either you're trolling us or you're detached from reality.
 
 

JimD said:
 
Somebody should ask the NFL - if there was suspicion about a team in the championship game not inflating its footballs properly, why didn't you do the halftime testing in both the AFC *and* the NFC title games?
 
Is there any reason anyone should expect the NFL to make competent, consistent decisions right now? You can ask that question but it's not like the NFL is having a good year so far as decision-making goes.
 

Leather

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So it's 10:00 AM, Day 5, and still no announcement or scheduled announcement from the NFL?
 
:c070:  :c070:  :c070:
 

Burt Reynoldz

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My mistake, I guess I must be imagining all the praising of Belichick & co. that goes on during every broadcast, by Peter King, over at PFT, etc. 
 
It is possible to understand that the media is blowing this out of proportion without thinking that it's due to some PATRIOTS HATE agenda.  I think the whole story is overblown, stupid and ridiculous, but I don't think it's "fueled" by a specific dislike of the Patriots.  It's an easy story, it's numbers, it's ratings.  For everyone asking why there wasn't a big deal made the other times this year when there were ball-tampering concerns, that's simple - none of those took place in the AFC Championship game, which lead into the dead week before Super Bowl week. 
 

loshjott

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Burt Reynoldz said:
There's a persecution complex going on here which is very strange to me.  The Patriots aren't some hated team, at all.  If anything, it's the opposite - Old White Men love fawning over The Patriot Way and the Genius of Belichick and whatnot.  If this happened to the Seahawks, or the 49ers, or the Cowboys, or the Broncos, or whoever, it would be just as big of a story, especially if it happened right before the Super Bowl, where the media cycle has nothing else to do but report on it. 
 
I consider myself a rational Pats fan and I disagree with this 100%.  The Pats are hated for three reasons, IMO.
 
1. They win a lot. For some, this is reason enough. People are sick of them. When I was a kid in the 70s I hated the Cowboys and later the same for the 49ers. No logic to it, just sick of them being shoved down my throat all the time.
 
2. Belichick is a dick. Yes, he is. 
 
3. Spygate.  Overblown or not, it fueled the dislike.
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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Burt Reynoldz said:
Honest question - do people really think that if this story was coming from the other side, i.e. if the underinflated balls belonged to the Seahawks, that the media fire storm wouldn't be as bad?
In my mind:  absolutely, as it came on the heels of the whole ineligible receiver "controversy", which I'm still hearing as an example of BB and the Pats cheating.
 
Would Deflategate still be a big issue for the Pats without Ineligiblegate: certainly.  But not as big of an issue as it is now.  The Pats "cheating" is fresh in many folks minds from just seven days prior v the Ravens.
 
EDIT:  Obligatory:  just because you're paranoid does not mean someone isnt out to get you.
 

Koufax

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pappymojo said:
I like Sherman too.  Great player.  Works hard and he is funny.  Would love him on my team. 
I'm in on this.  He's very articulate, frank and funny.  Oh, and he sure can play.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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simplyeric said:
 
 
oh fuck.
 
I was going to say "where are the Barcelona Dragons when you need them".
 
 
But, fucking Eli....fuck.
 
No worries, in 9 days the Giants will be nothing more than an annoying footnote, like being happily married but still thinking about the one that got away every now and then.
 

DJnVa

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Burt Reynoldz said:
My mistake, I guess I must be imagining all the praising of Belichick & co. that goes on during every broadcast, by Peter King, over at PFT, etc. 
 
It is possible to understand that the media is blowing this out of proportion without thinking that it's due to some PATRIOTS HATE agenda.  I think the whole story is overblown, stupid and ridiculous, but I don't think it's "fueled" by a specific dislike of the Patriots.  It's an easy story, it's numbers, it's ratings.  For everyone asking why there wasn't a big deal made the other times this year when there were ball-tampering concerns, that's simple - none of those took place in the AFC Championship game, which lead into the dead week before Super Bowl week. 
 
Come on.
 
If you've seen ONE article that says something like "This is the Patriots, they have a history" then that kind of shows this is being blown up because of what team it is.
 

Leather

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The idea that Peter King is a Patriots fan boy is a laugh.
 
He hasn't said one nice thing about BB since BB froze him out in 2008.
 

simplyeric

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kartvelo said:
Neither one of those guys sticks a gauge in the balls to check the pressure.
All we know is that TB stated that he asks for the balls to be inflated to 12.5 psi because that's "perfect" for him. He probably has no idea what the actual psi is, and never has.
 
I wonder if he's ever told the equipment guy that he tends to like them softer, and the guy said "hey Tom just fyi there's a rule that says 12.5 is the minimum" and Tom said "whatever, sounds great, thanks".  So he knows there's a "12.5"  even if he never ever thinks about it.  
 
Then on Tuesday:
Tom - "hey man WTF? I didn't even know this was a thing"
equipment guy - "remember like 8 years ago we mentioned that 12.5 thing?"  
Tom - "not really.  I mean, I guess?"
eqpm. guy - "Well yeah it's a thing.  We're supposed to do the 12.5 to 13.5.  We don't really pay that much attention, because the refs don't care at all.  So, you know, we pump em up to the 12-ish range and move on"
Tom - "oh.  Hmmm.  So, you pump them up to that 12.5 minumum?"
eqpm guy - "um...yeah Tom...exactly.  12.5..."
 

Norm loves Vera

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Just spoke to a friend who lives in Indy and is a Colts fan.  He said the general consensus of Colt's fan is if they can't go to the Super Bowl, they have solace in the fact they are the team to finally expose Brady and the Cheatriots.  In his view, the Colts have leveled the playing field for the NFL and that is more important than winning a playoff.  He even said watching the Patriots card house dynasty fall because the Colts took a stand is a shining star in the Colt legacy.
 
 
I lol'd.
 

Igosplut

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Long time luker here. While I don't actively post here, I do think I have something to add to this. My trade is auto repair. Why does this matter? Well, with the fact that every car/truck made now has air pressure sensors, that has changed the way we air up tires. Any new (read 2012 on) usually have info centers that give you the pressure and temp of every tire. To properly balance the pressures we've had to buy expensive tire gauges that break the psi down to tenths. Pressures have to be somewhat exacting to make sure not only the tire lights stay off, but that the display is even (some people are worrywarts about this) Fact is, even after making sure that the pressure is exact in ever tire, I've checked the display in the car to find the readout can be off by a Lb 1/2. What's more accurate? My 200.00 gauge, or the car readout? Point being, depending what you use to measure the pressure is going to give you a different reading. Trying to live of die over a two Lb spread is a fools errand in my opinion. I've never seen any two devises be that close in accuracy. The other thing is temperature. after the warm weather passes, the first cold day I get a spat of customers coming in with tire lights on. The problem? The cold lowers the pressure in the tires to the point it sets the light/sensor off. Yes, I know a football is not a tire, but cold DOES make a difference in air pressure readings. SO, it's not a stretch to think if the ball was on the lower side of the allowed pressure, the cold IS going top lower it (AND giving the fact that what they are using to measure the pressure, no two will give the same reading especially with that small of a volume of air). In my opinion (granted, from my end) if they plan to REALLY make an issue out of this, then the method of measure needs to really tested because I do not believe it is that accurate....
 

Leather

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It's more likely that Brady wasn't even aware of the exact specs, but assumes that the balls presented to him for choosing are all within the proper range, and since he takes the softer ones, he concludes he's taking the ones closest to 12.5.
 
That's really it.
 

The Social Chair

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jimbobim

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norm from cheers said:
Just spoke to a friend who lives in Indy and is a Colts fan.  He said the general consensus of Colt's fan is if they can't go to the Super Bowl, they have solace in the fact they are the team to finally expose Brady and the Cheatriots.  In his view, the Colts have leveled the playing field for the NFL and that is more important than winning a playoff.  He even said watching the Patriots card house dynasty fall because the Colts took a stand is a shining star in the Colt legacy.
 
 
I lol'd.
I am now irrationally rooting that Andrew Luck never sniffs a super bowl for that loser fan base...
 

wiffleballhero

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norm from cheers said:
Just spoke to a friend who lives in Indy and is a Colts fan.  He said the general consensus of Colt's fan is if they can't go to the Super Bowl, they have solace in the fact they are the team to finally expose Brady and the Cheatriots.  In his view, the Colts have leveled the playing field for the NFL and that is more important than winning a playoff.  He even said watching the Patriots card house dynasty fall because the Colts took a stand is a shining star in the Colt legacy.
 
 
I lol'd.
This is too funny. 
 

Burt Reynoldz

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drleather2001 said:
The idea that Peter King is a Patriots fan boy is a laugh.
 
He hasn't said one nice thing about BB since BB froze him out in 2008.
 
He's been praising them pretty much every step of the way this year.
 
"As several teams aged out of the playoffs over the weekend, Dallas and Denver especially, New England plays on, thanks to a team that thinks." 
 

CoffeeNerdness

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drleather2001 said:
So it's 10:00 AM, Day 5, and still no announcement or scheduled announcement from the NFL?
 
:c070:  :c070:  :c070:
 
Really odd since insiders Schefter and KIng said they said they likely say something as soon as two days ago.  What changed?
 

Ferm Sheller

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Burt Reynoldz said:
 
He's been praising them pretty much every step of the way this year.
 
"As several teams aged out of the playoffs over the weekend, Dallas and Denver especially, New England plays on, thanks to a team that thinks." 
 
 
You're mistaking his thinking that they're a "good" football team for him thinking they're a "likable" football team. 
 

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fiskful of dollars said:
Immersing the football in water is not the same as duplicating the conditions on the field. The ball would cool so much more quickly (think hypothermia in the water v. on land) that the experiment is fundamentally flawed. It does demonstrate however how psi can change quickly with environmental conditions. Still a cool vid…I'm not sure it's the definitive experiment.
You do the experiment with water so you don't have to wait around for a half an hour. It'll cool faster, yeah, but in real life the ball had the entire first half to reach the outdoor temperature.

You didn't even need to do the experiment--anyone who took high school chemistry or has some algebra and basic google skills could do the calculations. But for people who hate math, it's a nice visual.
 

OnWisc

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If Brunell and Aikman are correct and a 2 PSI difference can be both indiscernible to the refs spotting the ball each play yet have such a large impact that it could create a 39-point swing, then I think the NFL would probably have far more comprehensive procedures in place for monitoring it both before and during games. As such, l'm discounting what Aikman and Brunell are saying. Which is probably something I should do in general, anyway.

I don't think 2 PSI makes any material difference and I'm not going to attribute gravity to the situation just because the media tells me I must.
 

SumnerH

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RedOctober3829 said:
Considering that Brady has had the same standard for his footballs his entire career, then yes Miller would have more insight. The backup QB knows exactly what goes on.
Except that the rules allowing teams to prep their own balls are relatively recent (2009?), and postdate Miller.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Igosplut said:
Long time luker here. While I don't actively post here, I do think I have something to add to this. My trade is auto repair. Why does this matter? Well, with the fact that every car/truck made now has air pressure sensors, that has changed the way we air up tires. Any new (read 2012 on) usually have info centers that give you the pressure and temp of every tire. To properly balance the pressures we've had to buy expensive tire gauges that break the psi down to tenths. Pressures have to be somewhat exacting to make sure not only the tire lights stay off, but that the display is even (some people are worrywarts about this) Fact is, even after making sure that the pressure is exact in ever tire, I've checked the display in the car to find the readout can be off by a Lb 1/2. What's more accurate? My 200.00 gauge, or the car readout? Point being, depending what you use to measure the pressure is going to give you a different reading. Trying to live of die over a two Lb spread is a fools errand in my opinion. I've never seen any two devises be that close in accuracy. The other thing is temperature. after the warm weather passes, the first cold day I get a spat of customers coming in with tire lights on. The problem? The cold lowers the pressure in the tires to the point it sets the light/sensor off. Yes, I know a football is not a tire, but cold DOES make a difference in air pressure readings. SO, it's not a stretch to think if the ball was on the lower side of the allowed pressure, the cold IS going top lower it (AND giving the fact that what they are using to measure the pressure, no two will give the same reading especially with that small of a volume of air). In my opinion (granted, from my end) if they plan to REALLY make an issue out of this, then the method of measure needs to really tested because I do not believe it is that accurate....
 
Interesting stuff, but we've seen science and math show that the decrease wouldn't be enough to lower the pressure by the 2PSI that is being reported.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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norm from cheers said:
Just spoke to a friend who lives in Indy and is a Colts fan.  He said the general consensus of Colt's fan is if they can't go to the Super Bowl, they have solace in the fact they are the team to finally expose Brady and the Cheatriots.  In his view, the Colts have leveled the playing field for the NFL and that is more important than winning a playoff.  He even said watching the Patriots card house dynasty fall because the Colts took a stand is a shining star in the Colt legacy.
 
 
I lol'd.
 
I don't understand these people who are acting like they're in 2nd grade and it's cool to tell the teacher that Timmy and Jane are passing notes. I blame the PED fiasco in MLB. No one was so concerned about cheating until they were told to be concerned about cheating. Now it's this whole trendy thing to find instances of rule violations, no matter how small, and point and yell. Maybe a lot of people need better lives.
 

lexrageorge

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RIrooter09 said:
Bob Ryan on sports radio down here in Miami. "People don't hate BB because he's successful, they hate him because he's a word that begins with a D and ends with a K." He went on to moan about BB's behavior during the Q&A portion of the press conference yesterday and called him a "blankhole".
Classic example of the pot and the kettle. 
 

kartvelo

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Lose Remerswaal said:
 
Interesting stuff, but we've seen science and math show that the decrease wouldn't be enough to lower the pressure by the 2PSI that is being reported.
1) "Reported" is a generous term.
2) We don't have any reliable numbers from anyone.
 

pappymojo

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Burt Reynoldz said:
My mistake, I guess I must be imagining all the praising of Belichick & co. that goes on during every broadcast, by Peter King,..., etc. 
 
 
Provide one example.
 

Average Reds

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CaptainLaddie said:
 
So they should fine a team because.......?  Shit, weather can account for the change in pressure in the ball.  Just fining to fine?
 
 
Maybe I am misreading the post you responded to, but I think what he was suggesting is that if there is no evidence of actual tampering, the fine should be the minimum outlined in the rules for using footballs that are not up to spec.  (Meaning - a minimal fine for a technical violation.)
 
Maybe I am incorrect but that's how I read it.
 

SumnerH

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djbayko said:
SumnerH, I addressed this upthread already, but I took him to mean that the *new* / backup balls swapped in at halftime. If this is what he meant, then the weather hypothesis indeed takes a big hit. Your interpretarion might be correct, but as you point out, his article then makes no sense.
 
Ahh, that makes sense.
 
Really the temperature thing should be long-since put to bed one way or the other; post-game indoor testing should be done, and quickly confirm/deny it.  Unless the balls did indeed return to their pre-game PSI, it's not temperature.