#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


  • Total voters
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simplyeric

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dcmissle said:
This is correct. They now have to get every applicable rule and follow it to the letter. They should assume that 31 teams have knives drawn for them and will turn hem in it set them up. Any other course would be naive.
How will they play defense?

Are the deflated balls more of a competitive advantage than when the CB interferes with a player in the end zone and hopes to not get caught?

Or offense? Are the balls more of an advantage than when a linesman holds someone rushing the QB, which happens constantly? Wasn't there pretty flag-able holding on the infamous Tyree play?

Edit: don't get me wrong... In a way that's what everyone is hoping for: that the patriots end up with a competitive DISadvantage because they can't use all the so-called advantages that the other teams use regularly.
 

tims4wins

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Thanks for bringing up the Tyree play - we should probably re-measure the pressure from that ball - it was likely underinflated which is why he caught it. The undefeated season lives!
 

Bob420

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If in fact they altered the balls after the refs checked them, it isn't the same as saying a lot of QBs mess with the ball. All the comments and quotes from QBs are about how they like the football and how they do prep work before they submit them.

Submitting altered balls is still trying to circumvent the rules but definitely not as nearly as bad. Like it or not, the rules say you can't alter the ball after the refs check them. It seems the only real thing they care about is ball pressure. Again, like it or not, those are the rules.

Whether you think spygate was warranted or not, they were caught and penalized. So they are potentially repeat offenders.
 

twibnotes

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Caspir said:
 
Lemon's show last night, American Morning this A.M. which was also going to feature a detailed breakdown of how deflated balls impact the game. Lemon's a dick bag and I'd punch him in the throat if I ever got stuck on a set with him, and American Morning is a glorified Talk Soup, but damn. There really is nothing else going on in the world right now other than the Patriots, err, Deflatriots.
What's amazing about all the media speculation is that we still only have tiny scraps of information. It's like the UVA rape thing never happened.
 

simplyeric

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Maybe the patriots should show up with drug test kits, and whisper to the officials that there's rumors of Seattle using PED's. Make them pee in a cup at halftime. See how that works out for everyone.
 

simplyeric

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jsinger121 said:
Yknow, that actually brightened my morning.

I wonder if BB is enforcing a 'no balls jokes' order for his players.

What are the chances he says 'fuck it, guys: it's balls to the media, balls to the walls out there. Fuck these assholes'.

(Answer: pretty negligible chance).
 

jose melendez

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The smartest play for Goodell is probably to say: "While the NFL has rules on this, they have been poorly enforced as demonstrated by the comments of Rodgers, Johnson, etc., etc.  to the point where QBs adjusting balls to their liking is extremely widespread.  While the Patriots did violate a rule, it is one that hs been ignored across the NFL.  As a result we assess them the minimum fine of $25,000 and from now on the NFL will control all balls at all times and will prepare all balls in the same way."
 
That's how you make this go away if you're him.  Take a little for the blame from the NFL thereby escaping the notion that this was some fundamental threat to the integrity of the game.
 

MillarTime

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Really, really, really can not wait for this game. They are going to be in serious FU mode. Win. 
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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jose melendez said:
The smartest play for Goodell is probably to say: "While the NFL has rules on this, they have been poorly enforced as demonstrated by the comments of Rodgers, Johnson, etc., etc.  to the point where QBs adjusting balls to their liking is extremely widespread.  While the Patriots did violate a rule, it is one that hs been ignored across the NFL.  As a result we assess them the minimum fine of $25,000 and from now on the NFL will control all balls at all times and will prepare all balls in the same way."
 
That's how you make this go away if you're him.  Take a little for the blame from the NFL thereby escaping the notion that this was some fundamental threat to the integrity of the game.
 
I agree that would be the best way to go about it, but that's the play he'd have made on Monday morning if he was going to do it.  Before it blew up into a national media circus.  If I had more faith, I'd think Goodell could make a statement like that and withstand/ignore the fury of the folks that have been publicly demanding Belichick's head.  But I have no faith in Goodell.
 

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tims4wins said:
 
I agree, and this actually could mesh with the "distraught" comment. The league could be "distraught" that the Colts raised a non-issue to the forefront that forces the league to act, knowing that any action will not be liked by the entire QB population of the NFL. I think the league knows that what the Pats did had negligible or even no effect on the outcome of the game, but public perception is that the Pats are cheaters and got away with something and it brings questions with regard to the integrity of the game. Hence the league is forced to act even though they know it is a non-issue.
 
The league is actually kind of caught between a rock and a hard place here.
It's a billion dollar industry that uses part-time officials, appears to lack anything in the way of appropriate documentation for equipment checks and quality control thereafter, and has a rule book that says doctoring balls is OK until it isn't.   If their balls are getting squeezed harder than any others in this whole deal, they have only themselves to blame.
 

Catcher Block

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
I agree that would be the best way to go about it, but that's the play he'd have made on Monday morning if he was going to do it.  Before it blew up into a national media circus.  If I had more faith, I'd think Goodell could make a statement like that and withstand/ignore the fury of the folks that have been publicly demanding Belichick's head.  But I have no faith in Goodell.
He's set the bar low enough on disciplinary decisions that making a decision and sticking to it would probably be a victory at this point.
 

djbayko

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Catcher Block said:
Hines Ward on the Today show: "It's cheating[...]This is between Tom Brady and the ballboy."
I love how everyone in the media knows conclusively what happened. What reports am I missing that paint a complete picture?

For crying out loud, Dennis & Callahan are intimating that the league had warned the Patriots before the Colts game, making this as bad as Spygate. There is literally zero evidence of that.
 

loshjott

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Just heard Mel Kiper on a local DC radio station. He was basically dismissive of the whole thing, said a suspension would be ridiculous. Yes, the NFL has to figure out what happened, but everybody knows QBs get their footballs they way they like them, etc.  He did, however, bring up Spygate and said that if the Pats were already warned about this (like the taping) then it's more serious.  But I haven't seen any reports of that.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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djbayko said:
I love how everyone in the media knows conclusively what happened. What reports am I missing that paint a complete picture?

For crying out loud, Dennis & Callahan are intimating that the league had warned the Patriots before the Colts game, making this as bad as Spygate. There is literally zero evidence of that.
 
The only way you could make a leap that the Patriots were warned is if you interpret the reports about the Panthers-Vikings "heater-gate" game as the warnings sent out were sent league-wide and that as a result of that game, all teams (not just the Vikes and Panthers) in cold-weather games would be under closer scrutiny.  But that is a very broad interpretation of that article, especially when it's not even clear from reading it that official warnings were issued beyond the teams were told to cut it out during the game.
 

twibnotes

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djbayko said:
I love how everyone in the media knows conclusively what happened. What reports am I missing that paint a complete picture?

For crying out loud, Dennis & Callahan are intimating that the league had warned the Patriots before the Colts game, making this as bad as Spygate. There is literally zero evidence of that.
Which is why the NFL needs to speak up soon and be very clear about the facts. This thing has spiraled out of control.

At a minimum, why didn't an NFL spokesman say, "we are in the midst of our investigation and should be done by end of week. In the meantime, I urge fans to wait for our findings. There is already a considerable amount of speculation and rumor out there and much of it is untrue"

Just pump the damn brakes a bit
 

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jsinger121 said:
 
Taking a shot at Tom's wife seems pretty low.  I would be livid if I was Tom this morning.  Personally to me an angry Tom Brady is the best Tom Brady, he turns into an unstoppable force of nature when this happens.  I can't wait to thank the New York Post for the Patriots Super Bowl Victory.
 

KiltedFool

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Goodell's a tone deaf power tripping asshole, this isn't news.  To go arm chair psychologist for a minute, I could see him also using this as an opportunity to hammer Belichick.  Goodell came down on him over Spygate and Belichick remains unrepentant and is still doing things his own way, pushing the boundaries in every direction.  Belichick is probably one of the more recurring pains in Goodell's ass, so he may look at this as an opportunity to "bring Bill to heel".
 
Of course it's cheating, it's always been cheating.  Big fucking deal, it's scuffing baseballs or watering down the infield near first base to slow down a basestealer.  When I catch my seven year old being less than perfectly honest I could call that lying (and sometimes do) but generally call it fibbing.  Belichick annoys the shit out of me.  Big deal. 
 
I also could see the QB backlash being strong enough that the NFL goes the opposite direction on control of the balls. "Fuck it, so many people complained, chicks dig the long ball, no one was actually following the rules, the hell with it.  Footballs will be the responsibility of the team that supplies them and will only be tested if the opposing team complains, minimum 7 psi no maximum.  You bitches deal with it."
 

twibnotes

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KiltedFool said:
Goodell's a tone deaf power tripping asshole, this isn't news.  To go arm chair psychologist for a minute, I could see him also using this as an opportunity to hammer Belichick.  Goodell came down on him over Spygate and Belichick remains unrepentant and is still doing things his own way, pushing the boundaries in every direction.  Belichick is probably one of the more recurring pains in Goodell's ass, so he may look at this as an opportunity to "bring Bill to heel".
"W NNNNNNNN B C"
 

lexrageorge

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tims4wins said:
 
I agree, and this actually could mesh with the "distraught" comment. The league could be "distraught" that the Colts raised a non-issue to the forefront that forces the league to act, knowing that any action will not be liked by the entire QB population of the NFL. I think the league knows that what the Pats did had negligible or even no effect on the outcome of the game, but public perception is that the Pats are cheaters and got away with something and it brings questions with regard to the integrity of the game. Hence the league is forced to act even though they know it is a non-issue.
 
The league is actually kind of caught between a rock and a hard place here.
Well, the league could actually help themselves by simply stating the following when they announce their findings:
 
"While there's obviously been a lot of media coverage over the past few days regarding this incident, the league would like to clear up some misconceptions regarding the rule and the violation.  The NFL does have standards for ball inflation, and we expect teams to adhere to those standards.  These standards are put in place to ensure uniformity and ultimately contribute to the game's overall integrity.  The Patriots did attempt to circumvent those standards, and for that they will be punished in a manner consistent with the severity of the violation.  However, the league would also like to remind folks that there is zero evidence that this violation has ever impacted the outcome of any game.    We also understand that the Patriots were likely not alone in attempting to circumvent similar rules, and so the league will put procedures in place to prevent future violations.  "
 
Such a statement would show the integrity and transparency that many feel the NFL lacks.  It's not that hard, and it will appease the constituents that matter most to Goodell (aka, other owners).  
 
Why the NFL would have to go off the deep end and even contemplate a suspension, thereby creating an even bigger monster out of this stupid molehill, is still beyond me.  Yes, the Patriots brand is damaged in the mind of CHB and Wilbon and other idiots.  But they are not the constituency that matters.  
 

steveluck7

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twibnotes said:
Which is why the NFL needs to speak up soon and be very clear about the facts. This thing has spiraled out of control.

 
They certainly need to get something out, preferably today so that both teams can be bombarded by their local media during their respective media availabilities prior to leaving for AZ so that once they arrive, the talk can be as much about the game as possible.
It also wouldn't surprise me if the league makes a rather definitive statement about the "facts" today and then a week or so after the game some "new evidence emerges" and they start this whole process over again
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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ivanvamp said:
 
The speed limit is 65.  Eli is driving 68.  Peyton is driving 67.  Rodgers is driving 73.  Brady (Belichick) is driving 75.  
 
Brady gets pulled over.
 
Now, it is not a defense to say, "Everyone else is speeding too, Officer Goodell."  As if that means that Brady *WASN'T* speeding.  And maybe he's going a little faster than everyone else.  But everyone IS speeding.  And Goodell knows it.  He pulls Brady over.  Fine.  
 
Two issues:  (1) The fact that everyone else is speeding does not mean that Brady was not speeding.  That's important.  But (2) it IS an important fact that everyone else is speeding, because it means that you can't single Brady out for being a singular cheater.  
 
This is why it was important, for me anyway, to hear comments from Jimmy Johnson and Bill Cowher during spy gate - that this stuff is common.  So BB may have gotten caught, but it isn't like he's this singular outlier cheater.  Doesn't mean he didn't break the rules, because he did.  But that it's common and people should know that.
 
Same thing here. 
What I'd add to this:  the community and police have had no issue with drivers moderately exceeding the speed limit, as it's not unsafe, it keeps traffic moving, and it gets people where they're going in a timely fashion.  Everyone thinks it's fine.  But there's that one crotchety old woman doing 40 who thinks it is a big deal that everyone of those young whipper-snappers is passing her, and she's the one who asked her councilman to put a cop out there.
 
Now all these folks who are now forced to drive 55 and are now being inconvenienced, are going to send their kids out to egg this old woman's house every chance they get.....
 

loshjott

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( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
 
Taking a shot at Tom's wife seems pretty low.  I would be livid if I was Tom this morning.  Personally to me an angry Tom Brady is the best Tom Brady, he turns into an unstoppable force of nature when this happens.  I can't wait to thank the New York Post for the Patriots Super Bowl Victory.
 
Really? I think this is hilarious.  She's as much a public figure as he is.  If someone found out that certain of Giselle's assets were, ahem, artificially enhanced, putting them both on the cover of the Post would be fair game.
 

OnWisc

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Three10toLeft said:
We all (mostly all here) hoped Tom would play well and lead us to victory in the big game before this hysteria.

But I really don't think I could sit through a full offseason of ESPN and such, if Tom doesn't have a great game and win. The accusations, however ridiculous, will reach fever pitch in regards to TB needing deflated balls to be successful for 9 straight months.
I don't think Brady would be a primary topic of conversation during live coverage of other sports on ESPN, and I can't imagine why the fuck anyone would watch as much as ten seconds of that network for anything other than live events.
Unless they come out with a new version of PTI where they quadruple the number of topics and cut the amount of time devoted to just a few seconds. Or change Around the Horn so everyone is muted at all times.
 

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steveluck7 said:
They certainly need to get something out, preferably today so that both teams can be bombarded by their local media during their respective media availabilities prior to leaving for AZ so that once they arrive, the talk can be as much about the game as possible.
It also wouldn't surprise me if the league makes a rather definitive statement about the "facts" today and then a week or so after the game some "new evidence emerges" and they start this whole process over again
Belichick has his press conference in about 30 minutes. Because the NFL hasn't come out with anything yet it's very easy for him to deflect every question on the topic with some variation of "ongoing investigation" "cooperating with the NFL" etc.
 

jasail

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The first page of the mega-thread has a appendix that features news only. It may be worthwhile to relocate that here, so there is a clear place where we can have facts and reports from reliable journalists. Any mod willing and think this is a good idea?
 

moondog80

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Catcher Block said:
Hines Ward on the Today show: "It's cheating[...]This is between Tom Brady and the ballboy."
 
Was he sober when he drove to the studio?
 

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loshjott said:
 
Really? I think this is hilarious.  She's as much a public figure as he is.  If someone found out that certain of Giselle's assets were, ahem, artificially enhanced, putting them both on the cover of the Post would be fair game.
 
 
I laughed.  I agree it's funny.  But if it was me and my wife, I wouldn't find it funny.  I think Tom (and maybe some of his teammates) will view it from a different place then we do.
 

ObstructedView

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Unfortunately the SB always brings out the casual once-a-year "fans" and uninformed media coverage, and this story is gold because it's something that laypeople think they can understand - and, in some cases, wallow in righteous indignation over. Hence the breathless coverage on the world news, GMA, Today Show, etc. Instead of the typically inane questions about players' favorite bands, etc., they get to sink their teeth into a scandal that fits neatly into a pre-established narrative. And there are plenty of current and former players with axes to grind who are more than happy to have air time for their real and imagined grievances.
 
I'm with those who say that the league needs to make a clear statement on this ASAP. I don't think for a second that it would eliminate questions about deflate-gate next week, but it would at least (hopefully) put some factual boundaries around the issue and prevent things from spiraling further. 
 

dcmissle

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KiltedFool said:
Goodell's a tone deaf power tripping asshole, this isn't news.  To go arm chair psychologist for a minute, I could see him also using this as an opportunity to hammer Belichick.  Goodell came down on him over Spygate and Belichick remains unrepentant and is still doing things his own way, pushing the boundaries in every direction.  Belichick is probably one of the more recurring pains in Goodell's ass, so he may look at this as an opportunity to "bring Bill to heel".
 
Of course it's cheating, it's always been cheating.  Big fucking deal, it's scuffing baseballs or watering down the infield near first base to slow down a basestealer.  When I catch my seven year old being less than perfectly honest I could call that lying (and sometimes do) but generally call it fibbing.  Belichick annoys the shit out of me.  Big deal. 
 
I also could see the QB backlash being strong enough that the NFL goes the opposite direction on control of the balls. "Fuck it, so many people complained, chicks dig the long ball, no one was actually following the rules, the hell with it.  Footballs will be the responsibility of the team that supplies them and will only be tested if the opposing team complains, minimum 7 psi no maximum.  You bitches deal with it."
Rooney said as much this morning. And Rooney is a quiet guy who talks only when things look bad -- for example, supporting Goodell after the revelations re the second Rice tape.

This has gone viral with the msm running the show. They are less educated and more sensationalistic than sports media.

God bless Mel Kiper. Who last summer had the Pats beating the Seahawks in this SB

Edit Rooney said games should be played with one set off balls.Thanks Peyton and Tom, we will take this back
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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jose melendez said:
The smartest play for Goodell is probably to say: "While the NFL has rules on this, they have been poorly enforced as demonstrated by the comments of Rodgers, Johnson, etc., etc.  to the point where QBs adjusting balls to their liking is extremely widespread.  While the Patriots did violate a rule, it is one that hs been ignored across the NFL.  As a result we assess them the minimum fine of $25,000 and from now on the NFL will control all balls at all times and will prepare all balls in the same way."
 
That's how you make this go away if you're him.  Take a little for the blame from the NFL thereby escaping the notion that this was some fundamental threat to the integrity of the game.
Should add "and had no affect on the outcome of Sunday's 45-7 AFC Championship game."
 

jimbobim

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The most hilarious thing in my mind is that if we were going to now rank the controversies of these playoffs and their respective media coverage it's deflate gate by a mile despite everyone with a brain and a working football iq knowing it had pretty much nothing to do with what happened in the game.
 
Whereas the other two controversies the Bryant catch and the disappearing PI call directly impacted the results of each game and had massive ramifications. The League should sack up and hire the officials full time to lessen the constant key stone cop impression and reality. I also am extremely fascinated to see how BB responds today because it's going to be an epic stare down, worthy of popcorn, when he meets the media today. 
 

JimD

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BigJimEd said:
If Goodell was pissed about this, he could have killed the story on Monday. Instead he's let it build up.
 
You're assuming he's actually competent at his job. 
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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jasail said:
The first page of the mega-thread has a appendix that features news only. It may be worthwhile to relocate that here, so there is a clear place where we can have facts and reports from reliable journalists. Any mod willing and think this is a good idea?
 
No, it isn't "news only". It's mostly a recap of all the reported rumors and leaks.  Reporters running to twitter and TV with anonymously sourced leaks and innuendo is not fucking news, no matter what the media wants you to believe.  Frankly, this thread should remain empty until someone from the NFL officially comes out with something resembling a report or a resolution.
 

dcmissle

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Omar's Wacky Neighbor said:
Should add "and had no affect on the outcome of Sunday's 45-7 AFC Championship game."
Yes to both. Life gets much easier when you just tell the truth and act accordingly.

That is the smart and just way out. The problem with a draconian sanction is that implies over the top criminality, and any sanction will be deemed insufficient
 

bigsid05

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( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
 
Taking a shot at Tom's wife seems pretty low.  I would be livid if I was Tom this morning.  Personally to me an angry Tom Brady is the best Tom Brady, he turns into an unstoppable force of nature when this happens.  I can't wait to thank the New York Post for the Patriots Super Bowl Victory.
 
It's much more of a shot at Tom than anything related to Giselle. I'd bet they laughed, I know I did. C'mon, that picture...
 

ObstructedView

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I hope someone provides a running transcript of BB's presser for those of us without live access. It'll be fun to count the number of times he mumbles "league matter," and "preparing for Seattle."
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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bigsid05 said:
 
It's much more of a shot at Tom than anything related to Giselle. I'd bet they laughed, I know I did. C'mon, that picture...
When a tabloid headline is so silly you figure it has to be photoshopped, you cant do anything but laugh.
 
Over/under on:  "That's an issue that's currently under investigation by the league, and I'm not going to comment on it."
 

Ed Hillel

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Prediction: The media word of the day today will be "arrogant," with a dash of "dismissive."
 

MillarTime

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twibnotes said:
Which is why the NFL needs to speak up soon and be very clear about the facts. This thing has spiraled out of control.

At a minimum, why didn't an NFL spokesman say, "we are in the midst of our investigation and should be done by end of week. In the meantime, I urge fans to wait for our findings. There is already a considerable amount of speculation and rumor out there and much of it is untrue"

Just pump the damn brakes a bit
Exactly. The incompetence is amazing.
 

Catcher Block

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At least two teams knew about it, the league knew about it, and the refs had planned on testing at the half anyways. So either the Pats were warned and did it anyways, which sucks, or the league only cared about catching them in the act rather than following the rules from kickoff. If they decide to test right before kickoff, this becomes more of a non-issue.
 

OnWisc

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lexrageorge said:
Well, the league could actually help themselves by simply stating the following when they announce their findings:
 
"While there's obviously been a lot of media coverage over the past few days regarding this incident, the league would like to clear up some misconceptions regarding the rule and the violation.  The NFL does have standards for ball inflation, and we expect teams to adhere to those standards.  These standards are put in place to ensure uniformity and ultimately contribute to the game's overall integrity.  The Patriots did attempt to circumvent those standards, and for that they will be punished in a manner consistent with the severity of the violation.  However, the league would also like to remind folks that there is zero evidence that this violation has ever impacted the outcome of any game.    We also understand that the Patriots were likely not alone in attempting to circumvent similar rules, and so the league will put procedures in place to prevent future violations.  "
 
Such a statement would show the integrity and transparency that many feel the NFL lacks.  It's not that hard, and it will appease the constituents that matter most to Goodell (aka, other owners).  
 
Why the NFL would have to go off the deep end and even contemplate a suspension, thereby creating an even bigger monster out of this stupid molehill, is still beyond me.  Yes, the Patriots brand is damaged in the mind of CHB and Wilbon and other idiots.  But they are not the constituency that matters.  
I think the issue with this is that, based on what we've seen about QBs doctoring their balls and the demonstrations of the negligible impact of the PSI differential in the balls in question, is that it's not a big deal and that it doesn't impact the integrity of the game. Emphasizing the importance of the 12.5 to 13.5 range could set an unneeded precedent. Rather than declaring it necessary to maintain the integrity of the game, it should be cited as being in place to prevent excessive doctoring of the ball, and that it's acknowledged that over the course of the game a ball may fall/rise outside of that 12.5-13.5 range, and that it's at the discretion of the refs- who handle the ball before every play- to determine whether a ball needs to be removed and reset to pre-game spec levels.

Of course the window for a response like that probably closed sometime early Tuesday.

I do think that, for all his idiocy and arrogance, being blasted as he was for the Ray Rice situation may have Goodell almost paralyzed on this one as he's so afraid of fucking it up. Which by continuing to wait, it's looking more likely he's going to do. But NFL insider Chris Collinsworth had never doubted the man's integrity, so he'll at least try to do the right thing.