#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[JVglove2face]

Pressure gauges with built-in temperature correction exist, albeit more expensive than your average sports supply gauge. This has to be the long-term answer right? Whomever wrote the rule concerning pressure should have considered temperature simultaneously. It's physics 101.

 

[pappymojo]

Is there this much bullshit going around when pitchers are caught by TV cameras with suncreen on their arms/gloves? It's prohibited by the rules, but people just assume it's for better grip and no one gives a shit. In the rare example the guy is way too obvious about it (i.e. Pineda), he's thrown out of the game and life goes on as usual. I have absolutely no clue why such a stink is being made about this inane bullshit, even if Belichick himself deflated those footballs. 

 
It's because both the NFL and the national sports media take themselves way too seriously. 

 

[Shelterdog]

 
Yeah, doesn't the fact that the backups were "properly inflated" suggest some kind of weather/use issue causing the deflation? 

 
Or that the 12 deflated because Murph was sticking them with a pin on the sideline when nobody was looking and not because we filled them with 110 degree air.

 

[Drocca]

It's plausible that Belichick's attorneys, The Patriots' attorneys and the NFL's attorneys are discussing punishment, in which it's already been agreed that part of the punishment will include a BB suspension, and Theo is connected to the two of the many attorneys involved.

Theo's friends and Theo would be putting their license to practice in jeopardy, so this strikes me as very unlikely.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Suspending Bill for the Super Bowl may be an extremely good motivator for the team.

I can't imagine Josh M. giving that rallying speech like BB did with 25 minutes left and down 14 against the Ravens. That was Rocknean. Maybe it won't be needed, but I want the Boss there.

 

[DJnVa]

 
A couple things:
 
1. If that's the case, wouldn't Indy's balls have deflated as well?
 
2. It leaves the possibility they were tampered with after the pre-game inflating.
 
3. If Belichick did this by storing the balls in extreme heat pregame, that's kind of amazing and I think the proper reaction is to give the Patriots an additional first round draft pick.

 

1--Yes. But if they started at a higher PSI then they could still drop within the acceptable range.
 
2--Someone still needs to explain how this happened on the sidelines with cameras everyone and ballboys running dry balls in all the time

 

[bowiac]

 

SPECIAL (NE @ SEA) - Will Bill Belichick be suspended for the Super Bowl for the Deflated Ball scandal? 
 
Yes +750
No -1500
 

 

Where's this from?

 

[j44thor]

Is there this much bullshit going around when pitchers are caught by TV cameras with suncreen on their arms/gloves? It's prohibited by the rules, but people just assume it's for better grip and no one gives a shit. In the rare example the guy is way too obvious about it (i.e. Pineda), he's thrown out of the game and life goes on as usual. I have absolutely no clue why such a stink is being made about this inane bullshit, even if Belichick himself deflated those footballs. 

 
Pineda was also suspended 5 games, so are you suggesting a 1 game suspension for Bill and or Brady would be acceptable?

 

[Trlicek's Whip]

 
It's 100% clear to me that Theo's sources told him that BB is getting suspended and that they're both real serious credible folks, it's just that connected rich NY people pass along bad information by accident just like the rest of us.

 
Agreed. In this no-info echo chamber it doesn't take much of a game of telephone to start with "I read in USA Today that Belichick should be suspended" before Human Centipeding into "Belichick's getting suspended."

 

[kenneycb]

Where's this from?

My guess is Bovada but Daddy could sure use a few extra bones.

 

[Kilgore A. Trout]

 
1. If that's the case, wouldn't Indy's balls have deflated as well?
 

Has anyone said the Colts balls weren't?  Were they even checked?

 

[Corsi]

Where's this from?

 
Bovada

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
Pineda was also suspended 5 games, so are you suggesting a 1 game suspension for Bill and or Brady would be acceptable?

 
This post gets a rating of:
 
:natstown:  :natstown:  :natstown: :natstown:  

 

[j44thor]

The good news is that I think we have figured out why Brady has so much trouble with the deep ball.  Not that he has lost arm strength, he just prefers nerf footballs.

 

[j44thor]

 
This post gets a rating of:
 
:natstown:  :natstown:  :natstown: :natstown:  

I'm not the one comparing this to baseball so you should probably start there.

 

[JokersWildJIMED]

 
1--Yes. But if they started at a higher PSI then they could still drop within the acceptable range.
 
2--Someone still needs to explain how this happened on the sidelines with cameras everyone and ballboys running dry balls in all the time

Supposedly it could have been done by either filling the balls with heated air, or filling them in a very hot room...that, according to a Globe scientist, could account for a 2 lb drop.

 

[Kull]

If only Green Bay hadn't collapsed in the last 5 minutes. Otherwise the Super Bowl would be "Inflaters vs. Deflaters".

 

[rodderick]

 
Pineda was also suspended 5 games, so are you suggesting a 1 game suspension for Bill and or Brady would be acceptable?

A pitcher losing a single start in a 162 game season has a minimal impact compared to a QB/coach missing a game in football.

 

[86spike]

 
1--Yes. But if they started at a higher PSI then they could still drop within the acceptable range.
 
2--Someone still needs to explain how this happened on the sidelines with cameras everyone and ballboys running dry balls in all the time

 
I'm just speculating, but ESPN had a shot of the NE ball attendant from Sunday night and he had a football in his hands covered by a big white towel.  The towel is obviously there to keep the ball dry, but IMO it would also be superb cover for him to insert a spare pump needle into the valve and psssssssst out a second of air before that ball gets tossed to the ref.  That could've happened with each ball as he prepared to send it in until he got them all... or 11 of them as it were.
 
More speculating, but that method could have also been employed in the second half with the back-up balls.  If the post-game measurements showed more pressure drops, that might be why this is being rumored to be a Big Deal.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWweHBpscDU

 

[Byrdbrain]

Supposedly it could have been done by either filling the balls with heated air, or filling them in a very hot room...that, according to a Globe scientist, could account for a 2 lb drop.

The same thing was stated in this thread multiple times  long before that article was posted. Though I suppose you can be forgiven for not studying over 2600 posts to find it.

 

[Jeff Van GULLY]

 
Bovada

 
There's another bet too. 
 

 

[Al Zarilla]

Just made CNBC. Krispy Kreme and Michelin have tweeted that their products are fully inflated.

 

[Leather]

 
I'm just speculating, but ESPN had a shot of the NE ball attendant from Sunday night and he had a football in his hands covered by a big white towel.  The towel is obviously there to keep the ball dry, but IMO it would also be superb cover for him to insert a spare pump needle into the valve and psssssssst out a second of air before that ball gets tossed to the ref.  That could've happened with each ball as he prepared to send it in until he got them all... or 11 of them as it were.
 
More speculating, but that method could have also been employed in the second half with the back-up balls.  If the post-game measurements showed more pressure drops, that might be why this is being rumored to be a Big Deal.
 

 
At least use the Toots and the Maytals version, for God's sake.
 
Fucking Denver fans.

 

[Tito's Pullover]

 
I'm just speculating, but ESPN had a shot of the NE ball attendant from Sunday night and he had a football in his hands covered by a big white towel.  The towel is obviously there to keep the ball dry, but IMO it would also be superb cover for him to insert a spare pump needle into the valve and psssssssst out a second of air before that ball gets tossed to the ref.  That could've happened with each ball as he prepared to send it in until he got them all... or 11 of them as it were.

How would he know which balls he's already deflated?  I assume the balls aren't rotated in perfect order, 1-12 and then back to 1 again.

 

[BigJimEd]

Vikings caught on camera heating a ball on the sidelines in clear violation of the rules = no discipline.

Announcer talks about Aaron Rodgers over inflating balls = no investigation

I don't see the NFL coming down hard on Belichick or the Patriots but the fact that they've dragged this thing out while leaking things to Mort does have me concerned some.

 

[pappymojo]

 
I'm just speculating, but ESPN had a shot of the NE ball attendant from Sunday night and he had a football in his hands covered by a big white towel.  The towel is obviously there to keep the ball dry, but IMO it would also be superb cover for him to insert a spare pump needle into the valve and psssssssst out a second of air before that ball gets tossed to the ref.  That could've happened with each ball as he prepared to send it in until he got them all... or 11 of them as it were.
 
More speculating, but that method could have also been employed in the second half with the back-up balls.  If the post-game measurements showed more pressure drops, that might be why this is being rumored to be a Big Deal.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWweHBpscDU

 
I hope that is the music they play during the intro (but actually the Toots version).

 

[tims4wins]

 
I'm just speculating, but ESPN had a shot of the NE ball attendant from Sunday night and he had a football in his hands covered by a big white towel.  The towel is obviously there to keep the ball dry, but IMO it would also be superb cover for him to insert a spare pump needle into the valve and psssssssst out a second of air before that ball gets tossed to the ref.  That could've happened with each ball as he prepared to send it in until he got them all... or 11 of them as it were.
 
More speculating, but that method could have also been employed in the second half with the back-up balls.  If the post-game measurements showed more pressure drops, that might be why this is being rumored to be a Big Deal.

 
The issue I have with the ball boy theory is how could he know which balls he already deflated, vs. which balls were still at acceptable pressure? From what I've read a difference of 1-2 PSI is basically unidentifiable to the touch. But the 11 balls all were apparently within 1 PSI of each other. Seems unlikely that he could know which ball to deflate - I doubt they just go through all 12 balls in sequential order, but I may be wrong.
 
Long story short, I don't know how you could trust a ball boy to pull this off.
 
Edit: beaten to it already, you guys are quick

 

[miracleofmidre]

I may be dense, but having read the full NFL rule a few times over I am trying to determine the rules violation in providing balls that were compliant at gametime but which deflated due to cooling during the half, even if they were heated prior to the game artificially in order to unnaturally exacerbate the deflation due to a larger temperature differential. If they were manually deflated on the sidelines I understand the problem, and the Patriots will thus have a problem.
 
I can see how the above situation of heating a ball may be unethical*, but I do not see how it violates the rule as written. Is there another clause somewhere in the rulebook that addresses ethics and interpretation? Or is this simply a time when we have an "integrity of the game" situation? Shit, part of me kind of hopes that heating the footballs and having them deflate "naturally" to an advantageous pressure is possible in such a timespan, and that they knew there was a gap in the rulebook for this. Using science to get a marginal advantage? Hell yes.
 
Please help me out if I am clueless and missing something - but I don't see anywhere in the official ball rule where it says that the proper PSI has to be attained through manual pumping of air at a specific temperature. Perhaps it is a violation of the final line, about providing playable balls at all times?
 
*if this type of heating/rapid cooling/deflation cycle is even possible.

 

[dbn]

Sorry if this Grantland article has already been posted; I can't keep up with the dizzying pace of this thread.
 

Bonus: So how serious is this? Seriously, this might be the dumbest sports scandal of my lifetime. Keep an eye on the millions of people debating underinflated balls, Avogadro’s law, and what NFL rules say about pounds per square inch. No matter what happens from here, we will all look back five years from now and be baffled that any of this really happened.
 

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

 
I'm just speculating, but ESPN had a shot of the NE ball attendant from Sunday night and he had a football in his hands covered by a big white towel.  The towel is obviously there to keep the ball dry, but IMO it would also be superb cover for him to insert a spare pump needle into the valve and psssssssst out a second of air before that ball gets tossed to the ref.  That could've happened with each ball as he prepared to send it in until he got them all... or 11 of them as it were.
 
More speculating, but that method could have also been employed in the second half with the back-up balls.  If the post-game measurements showed more pressure drops, that might be why this is being rumored to be a Big Deal.
 

 
If the team let air out of the balls in the first half, were informed at halftime that the backup balls were needed because the first half balls were found to be underinflated, and then proceeded to let air out of the backup balls in the second half, that would just about break the stupidity scale.

 

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

More speculating, but that method could have also been employed in the second half with the back-up balls.  If the post-game measurements showed more pressure drops, that might be why this is being rumored to be a Big Deal.

 
Why would they deflate the second half balls after knowing all 12 first half balls were thrown out for testing?
 
edit: beaten by seconds

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
I'm just speculating, but ESPN had a shot of the NE ball attendant from Sunday night and he had a football in his hands covered by a big white towel.  The towel is obviously there to keep the ball dry, but IMO it would also be superb cover for him to insert a spare pump needle into the valve and psssssssst out a second of air before that ball gets tossed to the ref.  That could've happened with each ball as he prepared to send it in until he got them all... or 11 of them as it were.
 
More speculating, but that method could have also been employed in the second half with the back-up balls.  If the post-game measurements showed more pressure drops, that might be why this is being rumored to be a Big Deal.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWweHBpscDU

 
I'm unsure how this could be accomplished without being noticeable on camera, and I'm also going to doubt that New England did it again after the first half balls were measured. I mean if they guy is reaching both hands under the towel and sticking a needle in, that's going to be kind of obvious.

 

[Van Everyman]

Can we talk about King's piece for a second?

First off, it's almost certainly straight from Goodell. Which means that the current thinking is to let this linger.

Secondly, it is almost comically defensive of the NFL. The only acknowledgement that the NFL has any flaws here is that they "want to get it right this time" (almost word for word what Goodell said after Rice). In fact, after he comments to the effect of "sure, the 'integrity of the game' is at risk, more importantly:

The NFL doesn’t want to risk botching this investigation and issuing a ruling it later has to amend, as happened in the Ray Rice case.

There are public relations to consider, people!

Third, there is zero acknowledgement, as Deadspin reported earlier today, that the game is predicated on about a hundred gentlemen's agreements, particularly as the microscope of social media has turned the rule book into an unenforceable mess. And there's the deliberate slant on Matt Leinart's comments to portray it as only about pre-inspection doctoring (he said no such thing). No mention of Rodgers, Brad Johnson or the Yahoo sports article about how widespread this is in college.

At this point, I am hoping the league suspends Belichick for the SB so we can actually turn the focus of this story back on its true subject: Goodell's ruinous leadership of the game. Plus, I think we'd win anyway.

 

[BrunanskysSlide]

I'm trying not to be a fanboy, but I guess I'm not seeing an issue here.  The Patriots balls were checked 2 hours before the game, and then another report says the refs checked again 5 minutes before the game and during the first half by feel and didn't see any issues.  BUT, let's assume there was something fishy the first half, there doesn't seem to be much doubt that 12 new balls were brought in for the second half because the first half balls were defective/tampered with. Although we don't have any reports yet about the testing AFTER the game, there doesn't seem to be much question that the second half points were (more?) legitimate.  So, if the penalty is to remove any points the Patriots scored the first half against Indy, the final score would still be 28-7.  Regardless of those Patriot-offensive questions, there is still yet doubt raised that Indy's balls were properly inflated.  So, then, why didn't they score more than 7?  Even if you just count LeBlount's rushing touchdowns we tripled Indy's offensive production. I just don't see how this issue had ANY, ANY AT ALL effect on the Championship game. Quite frankly the Patriots killed them.  This reminds me of outfielders that pretend to be hurt when they miss an easy catch - those embarrassed try to turn their faults outward. 
 
So, now looking at the bigger picture.  I also don't see how this calls for any suspension.  Several reports and posts in this thread show that college programs, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers and several others doctor the ball to their liking.  Several QB's wear gloves.  If the entire league does this, why is there such an issue?  Here's why: there is a massive contingent of fans, media, and former players that dislike the Patriots.  That comes with success.  Any little issue, regardless of how global the problem is, is going to become a problem if the anti-Pats crowd make it one.  Right now, they are winning.  If anything, I hope it is taking the NFL so long to issue a statement because I hope they are calling all teams/QB's and giving them anonymity if they inform the league how normal this stuff was.  I hope that eventually results in the league saying that this was a non-issue.  Every team we called admitted to doctoring, inflating, deflating, and doing other things to the ball despite the Rules.  We as the NFL will do a better job policing this in the future, but don't feel any punishment is necessary. 
 
Let's just play ball.  Jeez. 

 

[djbayko]

 
A couple things:
 
1. If that's the case, wouldn't Indy's balls have deflated as well?

 
Hypothetically, there are 2 possibilities:
 
1. The Colts balls were slightly overinflated pre-game.  Of course, this requires the assumption that the officials messed up the pregame test.
2. The Colts balls were also deflated.  We still don't know exactly when/where the Colts balls were tested during and/or after the game.  They could have been tested later, in an environment where the pressure was back within prescribed limits.

 

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

I'm trying not to be a fanboy, but I guess I'm not seeing an issue here.  The Patriots balls were checked 2 hours before the game, and then another report says the refs checked again 5 minutes before the game and during the first half by feel and didn't see any issues.  BUT, let's assume there was something fishy the first half, there doesn't seem to be much doubt that 12 new balls were brought in for the second half because the first half balls were defective/tampered with. Although we don't have any reports yet about the testing AFTER the game, there doesn't seem to be much question that the second half points were (more?) legitimate.  So, if the penalty is to remove any points the Patriots scored the first half against Indy, the final score would still be 28-7.  Regardless of those Patriot-offensive questions, there is still yet doubt raised that Indy's balls were properly inflated.  So, then, why didn't they score more than 7?  Even if you just count LeBlount's rushing touchdowns we tripled Indy's offensive production. I just don't see how this issue had ANY, ANY AT ALL effect on the Championship game. Quite frankly the Patriots killed them.  This reminds me of outfielders that pretend to be hurt when they miss an easy catch - those embarrassed try to turn their faults outward. 

 
Because the outcome of the game doesn't matter. It's all about the integrity of the sport.

 

[Stitch01]

"letting it linger" is sort of stupid for the league and not great for distractions this week, but might auger well for the Patriots.  That reeks of the  "lets let this blow over/we left no tone unturned found no evidence of deliberate misconduct" Friday newsdump portion of the NFL playbook alongside with a strict new rules on how balls are handled and behind the scenes third-strike type warning that next time, there will be no next time.

 

[rodderick]

 
Because the outcome of the game doesn't matter. It's all about the integrity of the sport.

And this offends the sport's integrity so deeply, the default punishment is a 25K fine.

 

[ifmanis5]

From Seattle Seahawks presser just finished on Ballghazi:
 

[SIZE=10pt]APPROX 15:39:41[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Russell Wilson on Deflate Gate: I don't know. Patriots are a great team.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]¤[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]APPROX 16:13:10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Richard Sherman on Deflate Gate: I'll have to check my collection. I've never heard of that. If its against the rules...It won't have any affect on this game. The risk reward was greater. [/SIZE]

 

 

[Morning Woodhead]

I just love the concept of, "we totally fucked up that whole domestic abuse thing, so we are going to take this air pressure issue very, very seriously". 

 

[JokersWildJIMED]

 
Why would they deflate the second half balls after knowing all 12 first half balls were thrown out for testing?
 
edit: beaten by seconds

Weren't the 2nd half balls backup balls also supplied by the Patriots...they could / should have been pumped with the same hot air as the originals...thus, when they we used outside in the cold in the second half the PSI should have dropped on those as well...unless the refs simply pumped up the original 12.  Seems to me having the second half balls come in light is a good fact for the Pats, assuming the ball boy did not tamper and I assume he did not.

 

[djbayko]

Pressure gauges with built-in temperature correction exist, albeit more expensive than your average sports supply gauge. This has to be the long-term answer right? Whomever wrote the rule concerning pressure should have considered temperature simultaneously. It's physics 101.

 
Why is this important?  The current process is close as long as they tighten it up a bit.  Example: The balls will be measured X hours before the game at room temperature, outside conditions be damned.  Trying to account for the outside weather is a fools errand IMO.  What happens when the temperature changes over the course of a game?

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

 
Because the outcome of the game doesn't matter. It's all about the integrity of the sport.

 
Bull-fucking-shit. This sport has been morally and ethically bankrupt for years.

 

[Marciano490]

I just love the concept of, "we totally fucked up that whole domestic abuse thing, so we are going to take this air pressure issue very, very seriously". 

 
Luckily they can just recut and use all those No More ads with a bunch of people exhaling forlornly.

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
Hypothetically, there are 2 possibilities:
 
1. The Colts balls were slightly overinflated pre-game.  Of course, this requires the assumption that the officials messed up the pregame test.
2. The Colts balls were also deflated.  We still don't know exactly when/where the Colts balls were tested during and/or after the game.  They could have been tested later, in an environment where the pressure was back within prescribed limits.

 
So I'm basing what I said on a few earlier reports, one which suggested the balls were inflated to the same psi by the refs before the game, and then one from Gerry Austin who said the Pats and Colts balls were all tested at halftime and all the Colts's balls were within regulation. The first was from PFT who was citing league sources. If either of those are inaccurate, then the other possibilities certainly exist. The NFL could, of course, end this speculation by outlining some of the accusations and known facts, but I suppose it's not all that uncommon for such investigations to remain internal. I don't necessarily agree with that strategy from the league, but I may be biased.

 

[86spike]

 
At least use the Toots and the Maytals version, for God's sake.
 
Fucking Denver fans.

 
The Toots youtube video had an ad at the start.  Plus, one can never have too much Specials, even the 90s version.
 

 
I'm unsure how this could be accomplished without being noticeable on camera, and I'm also going to doubt that New England did it again after the first half balls were measured. I mean if they guy is reaching both hands under the towel and sticking a needle in, that's going to be kind of obvious.

 
I disagree that it would be obvious.  He's got a big towel and he's rubbing it around with the ball totally hidden.  It would be easy to hide, IMO.
 
And my speculation about them doing it again in half 2 is likely totally off... but if they are thinking about suspending BB (which is in doubt, of course), then there has to be more to this that the first half issue.

 

[Devizier]

 
Bull-fucking-shit. This sport has been morally and ethically bankrupt for years.

 

 

[Marciano490]

 
The Toots youtube video had an ad at the start.  Plus, one can never have too much Specials, even the 90s version.
 
 
I disagree that it would be obvious.  He's got a big towel and he's rubbing it around with the ball totally hidden.  It would be easy to hide, IMO.
 
And my speculation about them doing it again in half 2 is likely totally off... but if they are thinking about suspending BB (which is in doubt, of course), then there has to be more to this that the first half issue.

 
Don't you have to stick a very tiny needle into a very small hole?  From personal experience, that takes a little too much precision to be done quickly and nonchalantly.

 

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

Weren't the 2nd half balls backup balls also supplied by the Patriots...they could / should have been pumped with the same hot air as the originals...thus, when they we used outside in the cold in the second half the PSI should have dropped on those as well...unless the refs simply pumped up the original 12.  Seems to me having the second half balls come in light is a good fact for the Pats, assuming the ball boy did not tamper and I assume he did not.

 
I'd like to assume that too, but at this point that seems like as real a possibility as any of the other claims. The belief is the balls were tampered with between kickoff (or 5 mins of) and half time. When and how, so far nobody knows. 
 

Bull-fucking-shit. This sport has been morally and ethically bankrupt for years.

 
Just quoting what I've heard all over the internets. 

 

[Tito's Pullover]

Sorry if this Grantland article has already been posted; I can't keep up with the dizzying pace of this thread.
 

I'm not sure that it has - that's a great rundown of what little we know and just how much we don't know at this point.  Thanks for sharing.  Everyone should read it.
 
At this point, is there any info we know for sure outside of this Mortensen report, which seems accurate and well-sourced?  I sure as shit am not trusting a single tweet that doesn't originate from Roger Goodell himself.