#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
Sure, understood. Nevertheless, if Chin votes the other way, Brady/NFLPA wins the appeal, and it's the NFL who is stuck pondering a low-likelihood appeal to the Supreme Court. And it was Chin who made the utterly ludicrous statement that "the evidence of ball tampering was compelling, if not overwhelming". This is just a monumentally clueless and idiotic statement. Not even paid shill Ted Wells ever claimed anything so preposterous. It tells me that Chin couldn't be bothered to educate himself on the basic facts of the case, which is infuriating.
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It's somewhat startling and worrisome that a federal judge, on the appellate bench, no less, could be so ill informed about a case he's being called upon to adjudicate. That the scientific facts weren't being decided in the appeal is really no excuse for his "flat earth" comment. it actually makes his comment worse.
Judges aren't immune from the temptation to make themselves part of the story. Chin's a New Yorker, through and through, probably knew just enough about the case to think that Brady was guilty, no doubt in part because he's surrounded by Jets and Giants fans all day and is likely one himself, and never wanted to or bothered to learn anything more because he didn't have to. Then he made a couple of cracks that he could tell his old Jets-fan Princeton and Fordham buddies about, because what's the difference?
The NFL's corruption is never ending.
"Dean Blandino, Senior VP of Officiating in the NFL, recently announced that the PSI measurements taken throughout the 2015 season were never shared with the officials. "
http://www.12up.com/posts/3484114-report-nfl-security-withheld-psi-measurements-in-2015?a_aid=40396
That's a violation of the NFL's own rules.
"The NFL rules state: 'All game ball information will be recorded on the Referee’s Report, which must be submitted to the League office by noon on the day following the game.'"
The irony of it is that in the 1-1/2 years of Deflategate investigations there have been only two documented incidences of the NFL's rules regarding the handling of game balls being violated. The first was when a Colts' equipment manager stuck a needle into a Patriot's football on the sideline. Only officials are allowed to measure ball pressure during game play. The second (third, fourth, fifth, etc.) was when NFL security personnel measured game ball air pressure and failed to report it to the referees.
"Dean Blandino, Senior VP of Officiating in the NFL, recently announced that the PSI measurements taken throughout the 2015 season were never shared with the officials. "
http://www.12up.com/posts/3484114-report-nfl-security-withheld-psi-measurements-in-2015?a_aid=40396
That's a violation of the NFL's own rules.
"The NFL rules state: 'All game ball information will be recorded on the Referee’s Report, which must be submitted to the League office by noon on the day following the game.'"
The irony of it is that in the 1-1/2 years of Deflategate investigations there have been only two documented incidences of the NFL's rules regarding the handling of game balls being violated. The first was when a Colts' equipment manager stuck a needle into a Patriot's football on the sideline. Only officials are allowed to measure ball pressure during game play. The second (third, fourth, fifth, etc.) was when NFL security personnel measured game ball air pressure and failed to report it to the referees.
I consider that a fuck-up, not an intentional violation of the rules.
That the NFL measured football PSI during games in 2015 and never released the data to the public certainly suggests that the data showed what most reasonable people already know: that the Wells/Exponent science was junk, that all footballs inflate/deflate according to the Ideal Gas Law, and that the Patriots' AFC Championship ball pressure was completely normal. The data didn't support their story, so they concealed it.
But that the NFL intentionally broke its own rules and hid that data from game officials, who the league required to record and report game ball air pressure, strongly suggests something much more than ineptitude or an after-the-fact coverup. It shows that the league knew beforehand that it's science was junk and that the testing procedures were a joke from the outset.
Unfortunately Tom Brady won't escape the dead horse. Here is Fox Sports calling Brady one of the biggest cheaters in sport and saying of course incorrectly that the courts ruled there was wrongdoing. He is now and forever branded by numbskulls like Fox Sports.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/more-sports/biggest-cheaters-in-sports/ss-BBjiFTr?ocid=spartanntp
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/more-sports/biggest-cheaters-in-sports/ss-BBjiFTr?ocid=spartanntp
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FWIW, and obviously it's worth nothing, especially now and probably pretty much always...
I live in Staten Island and my kid goes to school with a kid whose dad is in federal law enforcement, absolutely dialed into judges in NY and offered up to me, unprompted, that Chin is a HUGE jet fan. So by all means, let's hate him, just more specifically now.
Edit: typos.
Well, all the other parts of this freak show were a biased circus, why wouldn't this be true.
Well, Kornheiser and Pablo Torres just agreed that Deflategate used ridiculous and bogus psi accusations as a spygate makeup.
Pablo Torre*. Guy seems to be a rational, non-hot sports take-y guy from the little bit I've seen of him and was a good fill in for Bomani on Highly Questionable, so just want to make sure people get his name correct.
I can't stand people saying it was a "makeup" for Spygate, like they got off easy. It was one of the biggest team fines ever, and the biggest fine ever for a coach plus a first round pick. Kraft and Belichick prostrated themselves in front of the owners. Aside from vacating the SB wins, which no owner wants set as a precedent, what more did people want?
The venn diagram of people saying its a make up and the people that can't come close to accurately describing spygate is more or less one circle.
These are the people who believe with 100% conviction that walkthroughs were filmed, locker rooms recorded, play books stolen, etc.... Their opinions are not based in reality.
One of my largest issues with all this is the local medias willful ignorance of the facts of both scandals. It drives me insane to hear any reporter, bust especially a local one, get the basic facts completely wrong.
I think this is accurate. The Pats did NOT get off "easy" for Spygate. They were hit with the biggest penalty in NFL history up to that point. But yes, people wanted BB's head.
I think they wanted to nail BB for Deflategate too, but Wells must truly have found utterly NOTHING to link him to this. Not even some vague "general awareness" charge.
The perception that the Pats weren't hit hard enough relies basically entirely on the fact that they have continued to be successful, despite the unprecedented and subjectively harsh overpunishment. Football teams aren't supposed to win this much for this long.
Where did the idea that the Pats "got off easy" for Spygate (speaking of beating a dead horse) come from?
Spygate was also an overblown bogus, bullshit scandal. It drives me nuts whenever I hear or read about how the Patriots cheated by videotaping other teams' signals. EVERY FOOTBALL TEAM IN THE COUNTRY videotapes their opponents. The infraction was taping from an unauthorized location, specifically the sidelines. IIRC, the location rule wasn't even really an official rule, just noted in a letter from the commissioner's office.
this, this, a thousand times this. it's almost insulting in a way that the Patriots continue to make a mockery of league designed attempts to create parity. they are a well oiled machine and they're making everyone look bad. the docking of draft picks and the suspension of the leagues best player, and ambassador for the game, is evidence that they're looking for any way to shoestring New England into submission. their peers can't take care of the job on the field.
the jokes on them, though, because this isn't going to work either.
edit: punctuation
The actual "Spygate" was when Denver videotaped the 49ers walkthrough practice in 2010.
How were they punished for Spygate?
From yourteamcheats.com:
PUNISHMENT: Scarnecchia was fired with cause, the Broncos were fined $50,000 for the violation, and former head coach Josh McDaniels was fined $50,000 for not reporting the violation.
Why is this worse than the Patriots version of Spygate or even the Broncos' 2002 Spygate version? Because filming your opponents' private walk-thru is not allowed in any way. The subject of the Broncos' filming was clearly prohibited and entirely off limits. For the Patriots, filming the game and defensive signals is completely legal and common, even expected. You just can't do it from the sidelines like they did, especially not after the new commissioner explicitly told you not to. Big, big difference.
If you are still having a hard time grokking this, you should go here to fix that."
I am not a Patriots fan at all, but this "Spygate" bullshit infuriates me.
How were they punished for Spygate?
From yourteamcheats.com:
PUNISHMENT: Scarnecchia was fired with cause, the Broncos were fined $50,000 for the violation, and former head coach Josh McDaniels was fined $50,000 for not reporting the violation.
Why is this worse than the Patriots version of Spygate or even the Broncos' 2002 Spygate version? Because filming your opponents' private walk-thru is not allowed in any way. The subject of the Broncos' filming was clearly prohibited and entirely off limits. For the Patriots, filming the game and defensive signals is completely legal and common, even expected. You just can't do it from the sidelines like they did, especially not after the new commissioner explicitly told you not to. Big, big difference.
If you are still having a hard time grokking this, you should go here to fix that."
I am not a Patriots fan at all, but this "Spygate" bullshit infuriates me.
I think the thing that really chapped everyone's ass was when Brady went down in 2008. The team gets karmic cherry on top of the Spygate sundae and would be forced to suffer through a lost season and maybe Brady never comes back the same. Instead, BB coaches up a QB who essentially never played a competitive snap in college to the brink of the playoffs and then flips him for the pick that turned into Patrick Chung, who started on two SB defenses.
Nice article by Posnarski. These Post-Mortems don't mean much, but they're nice to see how most thoughtful folks have concluded that the entire affair was utter bullshit.
http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/tom-brady-is-innocent/
Edit: My bad: this was posted in the Media thread days ago
http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/tom-brady-is-innocent/
Edit: My bad: this was posted in the Media thread days ago
If I am being completely honest, this incident reflects poorly on the Patriots. McDaniels worked for the Patriots from 2001 through 2008 and then was rehired by the Patriots during the 2011 playoffs. Steve Scarnecchia who videotaped the walk-though worked for the Patriots from 2001 to 2004, and he is the son of Dante Scarnecchia. The fact that Steve videotaped an opponent's walk-through while with the Broncos at least suggests the possibility that the same thing may have happened under the Patriots.
It doesn't prove anything, but it doesn't smell right either.
In logical and concise prose, she strips Goodell of everything but his ability to breathe. Here is our epilogue.
Let me guess. Brady's press conference convinced you he was guilty too, didn't it?
I've always assumed that history will vindicate the Patriots but as we've seen with Spygate, the vitriol that spews from supposedly informed mouth-breathers has no basis in facts and maybe never will. Will the lies and misconceptions ever be cleared about the Patriots? The narrative of "cheaters" will always hound the Patriots even in the most balanced stories. Will history vindicate their greatness and celebrate the illustrious achievements of the greatest coach and quarterback or is the narrative already too twisted to ever be cleared up?
(Ironically, as I wrote this, I satisfyingly bit into a sour grape)
It has been 9 seasons since the fated 2007 season and the Patriots keep winning yet this label of cheaters cannot seem to be beaten away. There's no logic or reason that can make others see their fallacy; not the science, not the bigger picture and certainly not the facts. I dread seeing ESPN's 30 for 30 years from now when Tom Brady's fiery will to excel and Belichick's glorious scowl are but distant memories and the narrator says "Cheatriots".
(Ironically, as I wrote this, I satisfyingly bit into a sour grape)
It has been 9 seasons since the fated 2007 season and the Patriots keep winning yet this label of cheaters cannot seem to be beaten away. There's no logic or reason that can make others see their fallacy; not the science, not the bigger picture and certainly not the facts. I dread seeing ESPN's 30 for 30 years from now when Tom Brady's fiery will to excel and Belichick's glorious scowl are but distant memories and the narrator says "Cheatriots".
I've found that the only way to inoculate myself is to aggressively and thoroughly educate myself about the facts of the supposed "cheating" and be ready to discuss them as dispassionately as possible. When a mouth-breather who wants to troll me or even a well-intentioned non-Patriot fan assumes the NFL party line before talking about DFG, I will calmly and in a friendly manner say something to the effect of:
“I’m happy to discuss this with you if you truly wish to talk about it. But can we please stipulate that the facts of the case actually matter? I say that because I’ve read all of the materials related to the case. The Wells Report, the transcript of the testimony before goodell, the award, all of the submissions to the Federal Court and the Appellate Court, including the amicus briefs and the briefs of the NFL and the NFLPA. If we stick to the facts, then I’m more than happy to have this conversation. However, if it’s your preference to just say “Brady and Bellichick and NE are cheaters,” then that’s your right, but let’s not discuss it.”
I've found that it works wonders and stops most people dead in their tracks.
“I’m happy to discuss this with you if you truly wish to talk about it. But can we please stipulate that the facts of the case actually matter? I say that because I’ve read all of the materials related to the case. The Wells Report, the transcript of the testimony before goodell, the award, all of the submissions to the Federal Court and the Appellate Court, including the amicus briefs and the briefs of the NFL and the NFLPA. If we stick to the facts, then I’m more than happy to have this conversation. However, if it’s your preference to just say “Brady and Bellichick and NE are cheaters,” then that’s your right, but let’s not discuss it.”
I've found that it works wonders and stops most people dead in their tracks.
I've read this well-written and thought out sentiment from you in the past and it has inspired me to attempt to change people's minds one at a time but there is little rational thought that goes behind people's feelings of the Patriots as cheaters. It's something they just feel or "know" that occurred. As bleeding heart supporters we ourselves don't act rationally.
But I have always dreamed that one day, in the unclouded eyes of historians, the Patriots would be vindicated and seen as one of the greatest teams of the modern football era - innovative, tough, determined and focused on the singularity of winning football games. However, to this day, almost a decade later, the narrative of Spygate tarnishes the Patriots legacy and perhaps always will.
Edit: I realize, I am restating ideas that have been discussed ad nauseam for 782 pages and counting. Please continue the regularly scheduled programming.
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The bolded language is undoubtedly true, and I'm personally at peace not trying to change those people's minds. You cannot reason with someone who has made up their mind, facts be damned.
Goodell is on record saying that he felt Belichick never showed the proper level of remorse for Spygate, and that as a result the Pats got off "easy". At least some of the owners (who wanted a suspension) and the Jets fans in the league office to whom Goodell is beholden feel the same way.
What's incredibly stupid is that none of these made up "scandals" actually hurt the NFL in any way, shape or form. They are not on the radar of screen of sponsors, and the fans of opposing teams have something to talk about. So the NFL still would have made the same amount of moneys had the Wells report exonerated Brady from the outset and claimed the whole issue to be the result of a measurement error.
If so, whose posts are symbolized by Wheel of Fish? What post is symbolized by drinking from the fire hose? Which one is represented by the random Spatula City ad?
We should commission our own ball study and have ITP publish what the NFL buried last season.
I figure we need a sample of regulation balls 4-6, a couple of pressure guages and thermometers, and help from some members of this board who live near Foxboro (beer money for their time?).
Someone who doesn't go to the games but lives nearby can have the balls at 12.5 psi pregame indoor conditions. Throw them in the yard an hour or so before the game, and measure them at halftime. I've never been to a game at Gilette, so I don't know if there would be anyway to do this pregame and halftime in the lot. I don't know if they do pass outs for halftime. In any event, I'd love to get the actual halftime psi readings for all 8 home games. Embarrassing the NFL would be a bonus.
I'd be willing to pony up some $$ to get it rolling. ITP could publish the results and that would lend some credibility to the findings.
I figure we need a sample of regulation balls 4-6, a couple of pressure guages and thermometers, and help from some members of this board who live near Foxboro (beer money for their time?).
Someone who doesn't go to the games but lives nearby can have the balls at 12.5 psi pregame indoor conditions. Throw them in the yard an hour or so before the game, and measure them at halftime. I've never been to a game at Gilette, so I don't know if there would be anyway to do this pregame and halftime in the lot. I don't know if they do pass outs for halftime. In any event, I'd love to get the actual halftime psi readings for all 8 home games. Embarrassing the NFL would be a bonus.
I'd be willing to pony up some $$ to get it rolling. ITP could publish the results and that would lend some credibility to the findings.
I'm surprised that one of the sports networks or newspaper sports sections didn't do a study like this last season.
How could the NFL stop them?
Anyone can buy NFL game balls, inflate them at room temperature, then bring them to the stadium (or nearby) then measure the psi at halftime.
You could crowd-source the experiment, enlist people from all over, and do it for every NFL game played all season. (You could skip indoor games, I suppose.)
Oh, I thought you meant the actual game balls from the actual game.
Then sure, many people have done their own tests on this and the results are right in line with IGL.
Why would anyone do this?
We already know what happens to air pressure at low temperatures. Just look on YouTube. This experiment has been done a million times.
It's baffling to me that this continues to come up in this thread, as if we'd somehow be breaking new ground by doing such an experiment. Surely, Goodell will rescind the suspension when he hears of this!
Maybe when we complete the experiment, we can send the results to Brady to use in his defamation lawsuit against the NFL.
They probably thought the NFL was going to do what they said and release the results of the measurements. But I think like you. With all the attention given to the science during this run of appeals, it would have been easy click bait for a national sports site to test real game conditions.