#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


  • Total voters
    208

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
16,291
And even if someone, say an MIT scientist, was able to completely discredit everything in the Exponent report, the defense of Exponent would go something like this - "you can pay experts to say anything" - and everybody would buy it.

If the Exponent report is anything like what may be presented as scientific evidence in court, then I sure as shit never want to go to trial.
You would want to go to a fair trial where you could cross-examine the Exponent witness and put on contrary evidence.

I
 

GeorgeCostanza

Member
SoSH Member
May 16, 2009
6,076
Found in central mass
Hopefully one good to come out of this process, is that people have a much more critical eye when it comes to court proceedings and justice in general. Way too much of the general public believes in a fictional world of justice and assume everyone goes through that one versus the more real world machinations that exist in our actual legal system.

There's a reason the Innocence project has been so successful in getting so many convictions overturned. It's not because those people just slipped through the cracks of an otherwise great justice system.
Sometimes it takes being forced to go through it yourself, to see how fucked up the system really is. Whether it be probate, criminal, whatever. I know that's what it took for me personally.
 

Gambler7

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2003
3,449
Saw this on twitter. Not to get back into this, but, interesting nugget here from an old article:
11:17 a.m. -- Field judge Craig Wrolstad and first-year side judge Prioleau, the youngest members of Corrente's crew, check the air pressure on all the game balls. Each ball is inflated to within a one-pound range, so equipment managers can't sneak in ones that are bloated or under-inflated to correspond with a quarterback's preference and hand size.

To ensure the footballs aren't switched during the game, the officials mark each of them using a rubber stamp -- adding their own personal touch. Walt Coleman, who's in the dairy business, uses a cow. Gerald Austin, a retired golf pro, uses a golf flag. Ron Winter uses -- what else? -- a snowflake.

Yet, with all the care, teams still occasionally try to switch out a ball. It happened once to Corrente's crew and back judge Carey confiscated the ball, turned it over to league security, they sent it to headquarters, and the team was punished.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/sep/23/sports/sp-ref23/2
 

Jettisoned

Member
SoSH Member
May 6, 2008
977
Well we know that wasn't the Patriots, as it would either have been considered a huge scandal or it would have come up in the ballghazi reporting.
 
Jul 18, 2005
23
Is this potentially more ammunition for the appeal? Corrente's name was on the list of those interviewed, but his name or Carey's never appear anywhere else. The LA Times article seems to be drawing from Corrente's recollection. It is difficult to believe that he would not have mentioned the parallel when interviewed.

Am I remembering correctly that Brady's team was given all interview transcripts but not investigator notes?

The fact that we can't even determine which team was punished from a google search is so ridiculous I'm not sure how to process the information.
 

Hoya81

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 3, 2010
4,797
Well we know that wasn't the Patriots, as it would either have been considered a huge scandal or it would have come up in the ballghazi reporting.
There was a reference on page 47-48 of the WR to a October 2004 incident where a practice ball was given to the ref by one of the ball boys, who McNally supervised.
ImageUploadedBySons of Sam Horn1449180088.806347.jpg
But Pro Football Ref box score shows that neither Corrente or Carey were on the crew, so it wasn't the Patriots. The head ref? Walt Anderson.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200410240nwe.htm?mobile=false
 

mwonow

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2005
5,629
Ted Wells would sell his soul for a dollar. That is my impression anyway. He has come across as the Captain of Sleaze.
How many times can he sell that tattered old thing, anyway? Is he like Voldemort (without the superpowers), cutting his soul into seven/eight pieces?
 

geoduck no quahog

not particularly consistent
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 8, 2002
12,128
Seattle, WA
My understanding is that the accuracy of the report is not in question. It's the 4 points raised by Brady's team:

1. Lack of Notice
2. Insufficient Procedures
3. Fundamental Unfairness
4. Partiality of NFL

We all know evidence fails to indicate that the balls were fucked with.

We all know (as the prof pointed out) that cold weather games, by definition, have to be played with low-pressure balls...lower than any of the measurements during the Colts game - and nobody cares.

I don't understand two of the professor's approaches:
(a) Taking an average of both gauges. Why? It was either a or b. (I hate this "average" stuff as part of any analysis)
(b) Accuracy of any of the measurements, particularly gauge accuracy. No data should be a dot...all the data should be bars.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. All that matters is the opinion on whether or not the NFL/Goodell had complete authority to do what they did under the CBA.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
24,628
Here
I mean, WTF:

Brunell: My favorite Brett Favre story is a hunting story from when he was a kid. He and a buddy or a couple buddies who were out trespassing on some property somewhere and they had a .22 rifle. They were just messing around and they see a deer. You're trespassing, you shouldn't be there to begin with, and the last thing you should do is take your gun and shoot at a deer. So they do it, and I think they hit it a few times and knock it down. After a couple shots ring off, they realize somebody could discover them and find out they're trespassing. They're frantic, they don't know what to do, and they've got this deer and it's flopping all over the woods. So, they figured out the only way to kill this deer without shooting at it is to drown it. So they drag it over to a puddle, a stream, a small pond, I don't know what it was, but they basically held this deer underwater until the bubbles stopped coming out of its nose. Listen, I'll probably get in trouble for telling this story, but it's one of the funniest stories I've ever heard. And the way he told that story, we were crying laughing. It was gut-ache type laughing.
This guy cried over Deflategate, though.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/feature/25397980/the-chronicles-of-favre-ia
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,408
Portsmouth, NH
My understanding is that the accuracy of the report is not in question. It's the 4 points raised by Brady's team:

1. Lack of Notice
2. Insufficient Procedures
3. Fundamental Unfairness
4. Partiality of NFL

We all know evidence fails to indicate that the balls were fucked with.

We all know (as the prof pointed out) that cold weather games, by definition, have to be played with low-pressure balls...lower than any of the measurements during the Colts game - and nobody cares.

I don't understand two of the professor's approaches:
(a) Taking an average of both gauges. Why? It was either a or b. (I hate this "average" stuff as part of any analysis)
(b) Accuracy of any of the measurements, particularly gauge accuracy. No data should be a dot...all the data should be bars.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. All that matters is the opinion on whether or not the NFL/Goodell had complete authority to do what they did under the CBA.
Pretty sure the only thing relevant to the appeal is what Berman laid down in his ruling. The NFL doesn't get a brand new trial. It was noted at the time that he did not rule on each independent aspect as a matter of strategy to reduce vulnerable points to attack on appeal.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
38,522
I mean, even the guys I know who mount deer on their living room walls would be repulsed by that story.
 

Old Fart Tree

the maven of meat
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2001
8,901
The Yay Area
That's horrible and gruesome and cruel. Not that it bestows any special credibility to me, but I have my hunting license; that's just fucked up and awful. In sum, fuck Brett Favre.
 

Valek123

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
847
Upper Valley
I mean, even the guys I know who mount deer on their living room walls would be repulsed by that story.
I can vouch for this as a person with a deer on a wall and antlers all over that story is repulsing and everything wrong with hunting today. Zero ethics, boys club stupidity and just a complete lack of respect for the animal. Hope he spends his last few moments someday bubbling.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,857
How many times can he sell that tattered old thing, anyway? Is he like Voldemort (without the superpowers), cutting his soul into seven/eight pieces?
You would think that sooner or later the law of diminishing returns would kick in.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
13,193
Waltham, MA
Pretty sure the only thing relevant to the appeal is what Berman laid down in his ruling. The NFL doesn't get a brand new trial. It was noted at the time that he did not rule on each independent aspect as a matter of strategy to reduce vulnerable points to attack on appeal.
Doesn't this go against what is being said in the sister law thread about the appeal being a "de novo" review? Granted, there was at least one post from a lawyer stating his uncertainty about it being de novo, but I thought that was the consensus.
 

geoduck no quahog

not particularly consistent
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 8, 2002
12,128
Seattle, WA
Pretty sure the only thing relevant to the appeal is what Berman laid down in his ruling. The NFL doesn't get a brand new trial. It was noted at the time that he did not rule on each independent aspect as a matter of strategy to reduce vulnerable points to attack on appeal.
I thought that also. There's a guy on the Journal that believes they will (and need to) bring up the fact that science proves that there was no "crime" (the smoking gun) before they file. Is that even possible?
 

Hector Salamanca

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
318
So, that's implying that whenever the Pats won in Foxboro it was because they stole every playbook, ever.

Imagine if they put the same amount of effort of preparation that they did into stealing playbooks and signals!
 

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
5,288
You must be really, really stupid to have Warren Sapp say that you weren't "an astute of a player."
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
13,193
Waltham, MA
I thought that also. There's a guy on the Journal that believes they will (and need to) bring up the fact that science proves that there was no "crime" (the smoking gun) before they file. Is that even possible?
That's asinine. Read the legal thread. That guy has no idea what he's talking about. The question of whether there was a violation was over as soon as it entered the court system. It has been all about the legality of the process itself ever since. Brady's side has stated in court that no crime was committed in response to Berman's questions, but it's only of ancillary interest.
 

Pandemonium67

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
4,701
Lesterland
How can you argue with Sapp logic like this:

"We went out and got off to a 14-0 lead and [they] came rumbling back after the second half. How many people come to Foxboro and have a 14-point lead? It’s usually the other way around, right? That’s how y’all cheat.”
 

Cabin Mirror

Member
SoSH Member
How can you argue with Sapp logic like this:

"We went out and got off to a 14-0 lead and [they] came rumbling back after the second half. How many people come to Foxboro and have a 14-point lead? It’s usually the other way around, right? That’s how y’all cheat.”
Yeah, his evidence is pretty much iron clad. I don't see how anyone could dispute it after this.

BB's cheatin' skills must have still been a work in progress since the Pats went 5-11 in 2000...
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
24,590
Hingham, MA
He doesn't even have a good memory.

First of all, the Pats sucked in 2000.

But more to the point, the Pats scored first to take a 3-0 lead, then Tampa scored 14 straight to make it 14-3, then the Pats scored a TD to make it 14-10, then Tampa scored to make it 21-10, then the Pats scored to make it 21-16 and failed on the two point try.

So basically his evidence that they were cheating is that they, um, scored a touchdown.
 

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
5,288
He has some Rex Ryan in him. He is bragging about going up for 14 points in Foxboro in the first half of the 2000 season, when the Patriots finished 5-11 and Drew Bledsoe was the starting QB. Tampa won that game 21-16.

 
Last edited:

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
27,056
That's asinine. Read the legal thread. That guy has no idea what he's talking about. The question of whether there was a violation was over as soon as it entered the court system. It has been all about the legality of the process itself ever since. Brady's side has stated in court that no crime was committed in response to Berman's questions, but it's only of ancillary interest.
From the Projo article, "They first measured 11 Patriots balls — the 12th had been intercepted, which is what started the whole affair." I can't resist mentioning that they measured 11 balls despite one being intercepted and one given away to a fan. It appears there were actually 13 balls in the bag pregame, just one more indication of the tremendous rigor applied by Walt Anderson and crew.
 

Investor 11

Plobbably the greatest videographer ever
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2006
3,076
San Diego
From the Projo article, "They first measured 11 Patriots balls — the 12th had been intercepted, which is what started the whole affair." I can't resist mentioning that they measured 11 balls despite one being intercepted and one given away to a fan. It appears there were actually 13 balls in the bag pregame, just one more indication of the tremendous rigor applied by Walt Anderson and crew.
Going from memory here, but the ball given away to a fan was from Blount's TD run in the 2nd half.
 

Jettisoned

Member
SoSH Member
May 6, 2008
977
From the Projo article, "They first measured 11 Patriots balls — the 12th had been intercepted, which is what started the whole affair." I can't resist mentioning that they measured 11 balls despite one being intercepted and one given away to a fan. It appears there were actually 13 balls in the bag pregame, just one more indication of the tremendous rigor applied by Walt Anderson and crew.

Blount tossed one into the stands in the first half, then whosits picked off Brady which left 10. Add the intercepted ball back and you get eleven.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
13,193
Waltham, MA
Yeah, with the millions of words written on this debacle and thousands of man hours worth of attention from this dedicated message board alone, I would hope that the number of footballs hadn't been overlooked. o_O
 
Nov 20, 2009
139
39. As noted, eleven different Patriots game balls were tested by the game officials during halftime, with each ball tested by each of two officials. The football intercepted by the Colts was not included in the group of eleven Patriots footballs tested. Nor was a football that Patriots fullback James Develin had caught for a touchdown in the first half, which the Patriots set aside for him to retain as a memento. Based on the evidence, we believe that the Patriots game ball bag initially contained thirteen footballs, rather than twelve.
page 68 of the wells report

I remember this specifically because the intercepted ball that supposedly felt soft was tested three times or four times, by Vincent, Kensil, and a Colts employee (?) and the three results they got were precisely what you would expect when taking into consideration the Ideal Gas Law. Someone, somewhere in these hundreds of pages, did some statistical analysis showing that the distribution between their results was spot on as well. So, naturally, they started a $5 million investigation

The 12th ball results are listed separately in the report because they weren't checked by the refs that did the other halftime tests.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
27,056
page 68 of the wells report

I remember this specifically because the intercepted ball that supposedly felt soft was tested three times or four times, by Vincent, Kensil, and a Colts employee (?) and the three results they got were precisely what you would expect when taking into consideration the Ideal Gas Law. Someone, somewhere in these hundreds of pages, did some statistical analysis showing that the distribution between their results was spot on as well. So, naturally, they started a $5 million investigation

The 12th ball results are listed separately in the report because they weren't checked by the refs that did the other halftime tests.
Thanks for digging that up again. So if Blount tossed a ball into the stands in the 1st half, then there were really 14 balls in the bag pregame? Sheesh.
 

DegenerateSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 11, 2006
1,562
Lexington MA
I can vouch for this as a person with a deer on a wall and antlers all over that story is repulsing and everything wrong with hunting today. Zero ethics, boys club stupidity and just a complete lack of respect for the animal. Hope he spends his last few moments someday bubbling.
I'm not a hunter myself, but I have no problem with folks who do it legally and ethically. But what they shouldn't even be called hunting. My son went out with his uncle and bagged his first deer last year. I told him I was very proud of him, and why? Because besides having taken his hunter/firearm safety class, being properly licensed, and hunting in an area where they had permission from the landowner, he dropped it right in its tracks with one shot right through the vitals from about 70 yards out. It was probably dead before it hit the ground. That is hunting (and they made some very tasty kielbasa out of it).

Brunell and Farve can go die in a fire as far as I'm concerned.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
46,900
It's slightly worse than the one last year where they were saying he french kissed his daughter.