#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[rodderick]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/09/14/patriots-employees-won-face-additional-discipline-from-nfl/q69xCxW2JcFOyr4yonteiL/story.html
 

So let me make sense of this. Brady gets docked 4 games for being generally aware of a scheme to deflate footballs, but the guys the NFL believes actually did the deflating won't be disciplined? Or did the "if you don't suspend them we will" shit already count as their punishment?

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

So let me make sense of this. Brady gets docked 4 games for being generally aware of a scheme to deflate footballs, but the guys the NFL believes actually did the deflating won't be disciplined? Or did the "if you don't suspend them we will" shit already count as their punishment?

The second. Jastremski is a year round employee and has been suspended since May. McNally is a game day employee and has missed the preseason and the first regular season game.

In any event, it was the the NFL that effectively suspended them. If you demand a suspension, and then reserve the right to determine reinstatement, you're the party responsible for the suspension.

 

[rodderick]

The second. Jastremski is a year round employee and has been suspended since May. McNally is a game day employee and has missed the preseason and the first regular season game.

In any event, it was the the NFL that effectively suspended them. If you demand a suspension, and then reserve the right to determine reinstatement, you're the party responsible for the suspension.

Yes, but the league has repeatedly denied that they were responsible for the suspension. This either makes that lie crystal clear or is a de facto exoneration from any wrong doing. Either way, the NFL, once again, comes out of it looking like complete dunces.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Yes, but the league has repeatedly denied that they were responsible for the suspension. This either makes that lie crystal clear or is a de facto exoneration from any wrong doing. Either way, the NFL, once again, comes out of it looking like complete dunces.

Yeah, I'm interested to see how reinstatement would be spun by the same people who said the suspension was an admission of guilt by the Patriots.

 

[Jettisoned]

I'm having trouble coming up with any logical reason for Vincent to talk to these guys besides him wanting one more shot at coercing a "confession" out of them.

 

[DJnVa]

I'm having trouble coming up with any logical reason for Vincent to talk to these guys besides him wanting one more shot at coercing a "confession" out of them.

 
 
Supposedly he wants to be clear on their role moving forward.
 
But that's, you know, dumb.
 
Vincent: "Will you guys be deflating any balls in the future?"
Them, in unison: "Uh, no."
Vincent: "Are you sure?"
 

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I'm having trouble coming up with any logical reason for Vincent to talk to these guys besides him wanting one more shot at coercing a "confession" out of them.

 
Basically, he wants to look them in the eye and say "don't ever do that again" even though whatever "that" is remains unclear and unproven.

 

[Average Reds]

I'm having trouble coming up with any logical reason for Vincent to talk to these guys besides him wanting one more shot at coercing a "confession" out of them.

 
He's not going to coerce a confession.  He's going to tell them that they have to accept the findings of the Wells Report to be reinstated. 
 
Remember, these two work for Kraft, and (like Kraft) have no real recourse to accepting Goodell's ruling.  So does anyone doubt that this is the price for letting these two back in?

 

[Leather]

Yup. Plus, the league will issue a statement saying that the pair "have agreed not to illegally tamper with ball PSI moving forward."

 

[Ed Hillel]

Yup. Plus, the league will issue a statement saying that the pair "have agreed not to illegally tamper with ball PSI moving forward."

Ohhh, that's good. Kraft should have hired you from the beginning.

 

[cornwalls@6]

Give them both jobs with the Revs instead. Don't give the league one ounce of satisfaction.

 

[DJnVa]

Give them both jobs with the Revs instead. Don't give the league one ounce of satisfaction.

 
 
How about allowing them to work and earn money beyond the end of the Revs season?
 

 

[RG33]

Not to belabor the point (but, I will), but did anyone else have a visceral reaction during the Cowboys game last night when Collinsworth was pointing out how amazing it was for Romo to have been able to read the CB blitz that was coming -- where he motioned to somebody to pick it up, and then threw a slant I believe? Collinsworth shows the replay, and says "this is amazing, it's almost like Tony Romo is in the Giants defensive huddle!".

I shuddered to think what he would have said if it was another elite veteran QB making a similar read who happened to be wearing red, white, and blue.

I also loved the "ask the Patriots about that" dig that he took when talking about Tom Coughlin . . . . . . .

 

[FL4WL3SS]

You guys really need to stop being so thin skinned. Embrace the hate and fuck the noise. 
 
We're the bad boys of the NFL. I love it.

 

[edmunddantes]

Really great piece on Belichick.
 
Milloy figures prominently.
 

 
 
At a walk-through practice, Milloy explained to Belichick that he had heard first-year defensive tackle Richard Seymour beaming about how spacious his room was. Milloy could barely squeeze luggage into his. What was up with a rookie scoring a bigger room than a veteran? “Really, Lawyer?” Belichick responded. Belichick was already trying to prepare a two-touchdown underdog to face the St. Louis Rams; he didn’t need another headache.

When Milloy returned to the team hotel after practice, a concierge greeted him with a key to a new room: “Big as hell,” Milloy recalled, and with a panoramic view of Bourbon Street, a Jacuzzi and, oddly, a treadmill in the corner. At the Patriots’ team dinner that night, Belichick approached Milloy. “How do you like that room, Lawyer?” Belichick asked.“It’s cool,” Milloy replied. “But I don’t know why they put that treadmill in there.” “That’s because it was my room,” Belichick said.

 

[mwonow]

Really great piece on Belichick.
 
Milloy figures prominently.
 

Great piece indeed, thanks for sharing!

 

[FL4WL3SS]

 
 
During Super Bowl XLVI, in 2012, the Patriots’ headsets malfunctioned in the second half, leading to harmful miscommunication.

Given the slim margin for that game, this might have cost the Patriots a 5th SB.
 
Interesting, never heard that before. Too bad it's buried in this article.

 

[RG33]

Really great piece on Belichick.
 
Milloy figures prominently.

That was fantastic. Thanks for sharing it.

Both Milloy stories (the room and the shoulder grab) were great -- had not heard those before.

We really have been witnessing greatness with this guy. I don't want him to turn 70.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

 
He's not going to coerce a confession.  He's going to tell them that they have to accept the findings of the Wells Report to be reinstated. 
 
Remember, these two work for Kraft, and (like Kraft) have no real recourse to accepting Goodell's ruling.  So does anyone doubt that this is the price for letting these two back in?

 
I wonder what their legal arrangement is exactly.  They certainly have not collectively bargained with the league.  I would guess they have a contract with the club, although who knows at this point what the status of that contract is.  And, more importantly, who knows what kind of restrictions that agreement puts on them viz. the league itself.  I don't necessarily assume it precludes them from suing the league, because why would it -- who would anticipate that situation?
 
So, it sets up a potentially interesting legal dynamic, though it seems to me very unlikely it would ever come to it.  But imagine Vincent says, "you must accept the findings of the Wells report," and they say, "respectfully, Mr. Vincent, we cannot do that, because it's not true."  And so the league forbids them from working for the Patriots.  And I have no doubt that if the NFL invoked that, there must be some agreement between the NFL and the clubs that would mean the Patriots have to comply.  But if the team was otherwise willing to employ them, I'm not so sure they wouldn't have some sort of tortious interference claim against the league.

 

[edmunddantes]

They might try to thread the needle of the Missouri court case. 
 
It's not controlling, but it does show a potential way forward. 
 
Still stuck with arbitration (I'm assuming the NFL has that inserted into all employee contracts, but who knows), but should be able to get it out from under Goodell at least as the hearing officer. 
 
Otherwise, seems like it would be a pretty hard row to hoe, but maybe it gets us to some discovery of some type (every Pats fans wet dream).
 
/end dream sequence.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

 
I wonder what their legal arrangement is exactly.  They certainly have not collectively bargained with the league.  I would guess they have a contract with the club, although who knows at this point what the status of that contract is.  And, more importantly, who knows what kind of restrictions that agreement puts on them viz. the league itself.  I don't necessarily assume it precludes them from suing the league, because why would it -- who would anticipate that situation?
 
So, it sets up a potentially interesting legal dynamic, though it seems to me very unlikely it would ever come to it.  But imagine Vincent says, "you must accept the findings of the Wells report," and they say, "respectfully, Mr. Vincent, we cannot do that, because it's not true."  And so the league forbids them from working for the Patriots.  And I have no doubt that if the NFL invoked that, there must be some agreement between the NFL and the clubs that would mean the Patriots have to comply.  But if the team was otherwise willing to employ them, I'm not so sure they wouldn't have some sort of tortious interference claim against the league.

 
They certainly would have an antitrust suit for getting locked out of employment in their chosen profession (granted, a narrow description of 'profession') wouldn't they?

 

[nighthob]

They're Massachusetts employees, I think Mass labor law takes precedence here, and is there any question that Mass bureaucrats gleefully fuck the NFL in the ass?

 

[Norm loves Vera]

I think its pretty telling that the Patriots are so convinced that no deflating scheme occurred by the twins that they are bringing them back.  I mean, if the Krafts had any inkling, even privately, they would move on.  

 

[LesterFan]

ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk

Sunday's games featured "several" communications issues -- but no coaches publicly complaining about them afterward wp.me/p14QSB-9QWe

 

[edmunddantes]

Or had some rush to the NBC booth with the information during the game.
 
That was pretty telling. They had it pretty darn quick.
 
Of course same person did not supply Patriots issue to booth).
 
So it's either NFL or Steelers' personnel. 
 
Either way Robert Kraft needs to understand the environment his team is working in going forward. 

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I'm done prefacing all statements with "We all know the NFL sucks, but..."

The NFL has actually handled this very well. If there's a whistle blower, he's wearing black and gold.

 

[Van Everyman]

No, the NFL handled this the way they are supposed to – and did before Goodell took the reins and refused to tell teams to knock it off when they engaged in the kind of nonsense that started w Spygate.

I understand some wanting to whittle down the amount of hyperbole and blind hatred for the League office in this forum but the NFL has a long way to go before they should start getting credit for anything they do to manage gamesmanship.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

So...the NFL handled this well, but we shouldn't mention it because we hate them.

Stop being a dummy.

 

[rodderick]

No, the NFL handled this the way they are supposed to – and did before Goodell took the reins and refused to tell teams to knock it off when they engaged in the kind of nonsense that started w Spygate.

I understand some wanting to whittle down the amount of hyperbole and blind hatred for the League office in this forum but the NFL has a long way to go before they should start getting credit for anything they do to manage gamesmanship.

They squashed the issue quickly and prevented it from becoming a distraction to all involved. Isn't that approach exactly what we wanted from them in deflategate? I mean, they're still incompetent buffoons, but I see no problem in giving them a little credit for getting something right.

 

[amarshal2]

I'm done prefacing all statements with "We all know the NFL sucks, but..."

The NFL has actually handled this very well. If there's a whistle blower, he's wearing black and gold.

So the NFL handled this well...if you ignore the fact that they wouldn't be handling this at all if they hadn't been determined to prove epic incompetence in the past.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

So the NFL handled this well...if you ignore the fact that they wouldn't be handling this at all if they hadn't been determined to prove epic incompetence in the past.

Boohoo!

Stop making people hate Patriots fans.

 

[amarshal2]

Boohoo!

Stop making people hate Patriots fans.

I'm not the one complaining about how they handled this one but I'm also not going to put on my amnesia face and tell people to ignore history.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Amnesia face?

 

[amarshal2]

Amnesia face?

i dunno. It sounded smarts.

 

[CR67dream]

Boohoo!

Stop making people hate Patriots fans.

I'm pretty sure nothing the two posters you have inexplicably singled out can do anything about what people think about Patriots fans. I mean, it is not unreasonable to be wary of the NFL and its motives for anything right now, and it's also not unreasonable to be happy that the NFL seems to have gotten this one right. Calling people dummies and and screaming "Boohoo" seems to be the unreasonable position here.

 

[Valek123]

Amnesia face?

Jmoh face without the mouth open is how I envision the amnesia face.

 

[Van Everyman]

So...the NFL handled this well, but we shouldn't mention it because we hate them.

Stop being a dummy.

Nobody's saying we shouldn't mention it.

And listen, I'm not saying they didn't appear to handle this correctly. But this is the kind of thing that every other professional sports league does on a daily basis without creating an international scandal over their inability to do it.

Given that this scandal appears to have started over precisely this (if you believe it was Irsay feeding Kravitz and the League being unable to tamp it down post Rice) I'm not sure we should be doing any more than acknowledging that the League may—may—be beginning to see what happens when you let the inmates run the asylum.

In this bizarro world, I do suppose that's progress.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I'm pretty sure nothing the two posters you have inexplicably singled out can do anything about what people think about Patriots fans. I mean, it is not unreasonable to be wary of the NFL and its motives for anything right now, and it's also not unreasonable to be happy that the NFL seems to have gotten this one right. Calling people dummies and and screaming "Boohoo" seems to be the unreasonable position here.

1.) They responded to my post. I didn't "inexplicably single them out".

2.) Are you sure message board posters can't single-handedly change the flow of public opinion? Shit. Shut it down. Shut this whole place down.

3.) Who said it's unreasonable to be wary of the NFL? All I said was that they handled this situation correctly. Everything else you're saying is a narrative you created, not me.

4.) Boohoo, you dummy.

 

[CR67dream]

1.) They responded to my post. I didn't "inexplicably single them out".

2.) Are you sure message board posters can't single-handedly change the flow of public opinion? Shit. Shut it down. Shut this whole place down.

3.) Who said it's unreasonable to be wary of the NFL? All I said was that they handled this situation correctly. Everything else you're saying is a narrative you created, not me.

4.) Boohoo, you dummy.
 

Yeah, that's about what I expected a genius like you would come back with. You have no idea how to debate or how to to have a conversation, and have even less of a clue about how to moderate, or what moderating even means. You make a decent point, yet when someone makes a decent point in return you attack with bullshit insted of responding to the point. Great Job!!!!

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Yeah, that's about what I expected a genius like you would come back with. You have no idea how to debate or to have a conversation, and have even less of a clue about how to moderate, or what moderating even means. You make a decent point, yet when someone makes a decent point in return you attack with bullshit insted of responding to the point. Great Job!!!!

I think I succinctly responded to your post. Nearly line for line, in fact.

The 4th point I made was a joke. Lighten up.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Where do the mod fights get stickied?

How do I officially send an "invite" to my thread?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Your thread is the second worst thread on SoSH right now.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Don't look at me, I didn't start it.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Still your fault.

Where's my invite?

 

[CR67dream]

I think I succinctly responded to your post. Nearly line for line, in fact.

The 4th point I made was a joke. Lighten up.

No, you did not succinctly reply. You doubled down on your delusional perspective that anyone who differs in opinion from yourself is either a dummy or somehow is making people hate Pats fans. I mean hey, I agree, the NFL got one right. That does not change the fact that they have not nearly come close to earning the benefit of the doubt in anything going forward. Why do you have to try to shout down or discredit people who don't agree with you rather than have an honest debate? If you're going to make an assertion, be prepared to back it up without all the ad hominem bullshit.
.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Still your fault.

Where's my invite?

/invite

K, ur good. I will officially welcome you.

 

[ipol]

I know I shouldn't get in the middle of this but I thought Things That Make You Feel Old has some pretty good posts...

 

[nighthob]

Don't look at me, I didn't start it.

 
It was always burning...

 

[Ed Hillel]

What is Stark Weather homicide, anyway?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

No, you did not succinctly reply. You doubled down on your delusional perspective that anyone who differs in opinion from yourself is either a dummy or somehow is making people hate Pats fans. I mean hey, I agree, the NFL got one right. That does not change the fact that they have not nearly come close to earning the benefit of the doubt in anything going forward. Why do you have to try to shout down or discredit people who don't agree with you rather than have an honest debate? If you're going to make an assertion, be prepared to back it up without all the ad hominem bullshit.
.

You're echoing the same point the previous posters made, and it's a strawman argument. I'll say it again.

I never said the NFL deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Regardless of why the NFL acted the way they did, they made the right decision. When I simply mentioned that, Everyman said, "No they didnt! Well, they did, but they deserve blind hatred and vitriol for the forseeable future as penance because you can't trust them!"

You've doubled down on his diatribe ("they haven't earned the benefit of the doubt"), which is fucking weird because I've never argued the point.

My point was the NFL handled this well. Somehow, defending this one particular decision means I'm going to bat for the integrity of the NFL.