#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

So, NFLPA argument -- here are the fifty ways in which the whole process was a sham and they made up evidence and lied and manipulated the rules and changed the goal posts over a seven month period.
 
And the NFL's argument -- It doesn't matter if we did all of that, we are totally allowed to.  
 
If even 20% of what the NFLPA says in that brief is true (and I know 100 percent of it) how anyone can say the story here is deflated footballs is beyond my understanding.  There is an AMAZING and very upsetting story here -- of lying and cheating and conspiracies -- and you could (and should) tell it without ever having to mention TB or the Patriots even once.  

Well, it's so transparent by the NFL. Even if they really wanted to lean on the "we can arbitrate as we see fit" angle, if they could disprove any of the PA'S arguement, they would have at least addressed some of those points in passing. That they've opted to completely whistle past the graveyard is telling.

 

[Three10toLeft]

Brady has long odds of getting his suspension overturned. Yet every time I open this thread I see two more questions brought up about defamation suits. How about, ya know, Brady wins this appeal before that question gets brought up one more fucking time?

 

[Reverend]

So, NFLPA argument -- here are the fifty ways in which the whole process was a sham and they made up evidence and lied and manipulated the rules and changed the goal posts over a seven month period.
 
And the NFL's argument -- It doesn't matter if we did all of that, we are totally allowed to.  
 
If even 20% of what the NFLPA says in that brief is true (and I know 100 percent of it) how anyone can say the story here is deflated footballs is beyond my understanding.  There is an AMAZING and very upsetting story here -- of lying and cheating and conspiracies -- and you could (and should) tell it without ever having to mention TB or the Patriots even once.  

 
If the maligned party were not Brady and all his stupid handsome money undermining the class warfare element, the story of corporate bullying is borderline overwrought.

 

[Punchado]

If only we had an effective story teller here to effectively and dramatically lay out the conspiracy for the public to grasp,

You don't even need a good storyteller.  Hell, you don't even need prose, just print the list as bullet points.  

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
"The commissioner is the sole entity with authority under the CBA to declare what is and is not equipment."

 
 
And furthermore, to help his niece with her math homework, the Commissioner has declared that Pi should be rounded to exactly 3.
 
 

I have a policy where, when I get out of my car to run an errand, I always take my cell phone with me. This way, no one will see the phone and try to break into the car.

A few times I've left my phone in the car while I get out to run errands.

Was I lying in the first paragraph? Weird.

 
Yeah, maybe Brady's kid wanted that earlier phone. Maybe the assistant wanted it for his/her own use. Maybe the assistant just forgot to destroy that one yet due to some oversight. It's bad luck that Goodell turned to good use.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

How about a new TV series starting an out of control moron as a major sports league commissioner?

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

I have a policy where, when I get out of my car to run an errand, I always take my cell phone with me. This way, no one will see the phone and try to break into the car.

A few times I've left my phone in the car while I get out to run errands.

Was I lying in the first paragraph? Weird.

 
 
Kind of different situations imo.
 
When you forget and leave your phone in the car you never have a chance to correct the lapse.
 
When you have a policy to routinely destroy your phone, if you lapse one day the next day is another chance to destroy it. Then the day after and so on. It's hard to make an argument that destroying the phone is a routine practice when you have several older but still relatively recent phones that were not destroyed. It's just bad optics even if it doesn't mean anything.

 

[bankshot1]

You don't even need a good storyteller.  Hell, you don't even need prose, just print the list as bullet points.  

Someone's going to write a great book, "Deep Threat".

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
 
Kind of different situations imo.
 
When you forget and leave your phone in the car you never have a chance to correct the lapse.
 
When you have a policy to routinely destroy your phone, if you lapse one day the next day is another chance to destroy it. Then the day after and so on. It's hard to make an argument that destroying the phone is a routine practice when you have several older but still relatively recent phones that were not destroyed. It's just bad optics even if it doesn't mean anything.

 
There was just one old phone not destroyed. The rest apparently were.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

 
There was just one old phone not destroyed. The rest apparently were.

 
Ok thanks. For some reason I thought there were two. One is far more understandable to slip through the cracks of a normal process.

 

[soxhop411]

“@adbrandt: Nugget from filing: NFL says Goodell could have increased the discipline based on appeal hearing, but chose not to. First I’ve seen that.”

 

[AB in DC]

Which just proves my point that this was never an "arbitration" in the first place.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Which just proves my point that this was never an "arbitration" in the first place.

 
Yes, Orwellian double speak all around from the NFL: independent investigation, arbiter, fair process, proper notice, the list goes on. They appropriate the "clothes of legitimacy" at every turn.

 

[dcdrew10]

“@adbrandt: Nugget from filing: NFL says Goodell could have increased the discipline based on appeal hearing, but chose not to. First I’ve seen that.”

How benevolent of him. I have to imagine this is what it was last me to watch Stalin, or at least Nixon operate.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

@adbrandt: Nugget from filing: NFL says Goodell could have increased the discipline based on appeal hearing, but chose not to. First Ive seen that.

Looks like an attempt to prove that Rog was actually being overly fair to Brady by keeping it at 4 games.

 

[riboflav]

“@adbrandt: Nugget from filing: NFL says Goodell could have increased the discipline based on appeal hearing, but chose not to. First I’ve seen that.”

 
There's always a new threat/new evidence every time the NFL speaks.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

“@adbrandt: Nugget from filing: NFL says Goodell could have increased the discipline based on appeal hearing, but chose not to. First I’ve seen that.”

I thought people here had shown that the NFL could not do this.  

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Odd for NFL to include that---it only makes the point Goodell can do what he wants in their view.   It's pathetically inadequate to show he isn't biased, which is the only reason I can think you might include it.

 

[bankshot1]

“@adbrandt: Nugget from filing: NFL says Goodell could have increased the discipline based on appeal hearing, but chose not to. First I’ve seen that.”

It sounds like RG just makes up whatever he feels like as it relates to player conduct penalties. 

 

[riboflav]

I thought people here had shown that the NFL could not do this.  

 
I'm guessing the NFL is basing this on the fact that they didn't learn about Brady destroying his phone until after the original suspension was handed out. 

 

[Harry Hooper]

Odd for NFL to include that---it only makes the point Goodell can do what he wants in their view.   It's pathetically inadequate to show he isn't biased, which is the only reason I can think you might include it.

 
Judge pushing for the NFL to move off 4 games and settle. NFL says Commish actually held back from increasing the suspension, so Brady lucky to be at 4. Stop pushing us to settle for less than 3.  

 

[Myt1]

Can you blame Kessler for suggesting this?  At every turn before the case got to federal court the NFL was using the media to bias people's opinions on the matter.  From Mort's report on down the line, the NFL knew what they were doing when they leaked certain things.  The morning of Goodell's ruling it *just* so happens that a report comes out of SAS's mouth about a destroyed cell phone?  That's not suspicious?
 
I'm not directing this at you just in general.

It's perfectly acceptable to present all of this in a factual narrative. Describing something as "breathtaking" ought to be frowned upon unless it's playing to an audience besides the Court or Berman or the NFL tipped their hand in an unusual way that makes them confident in this style of writing.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

 
Judge pushing for the NFL to move off 4 games and settle. NFL says Commish actually held back from increasing the suspension, so Brady lucky to be at 4. Stop pushing us to settle for less than 3.  

 
Right, but presumably the NFLPA is at 0.  A Federal judge is not going to buy a halfass argument that '4 is halfway between 0 and 8 (or 6, or whatever the increase would have been) so it's fair' which is all that sets up.   If they can't sell the facts on the initial suspension, it's not any concession at all to refuse to raise it.  And if they are right about the initial suspension, then there's no chance of a bias argument succeeding so what's the point?

Maybe I'm missing an angle.  It feels like a myopic drop-in rather than anything thoughtful.

 

[Hoya81]

It sounds like RG just makes up whatever he feels like as it relates to player conduct penalties. 

Been like that for awhile.

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
Right, but presumably the NFLPA is at 0.  A Federal judge is not going to buy a halfass argument that '4 is halfway between 0 and 8 (or 6, or whatever the increase would have been) so it's fair' which is all that sets up.   If they can't sell the facts on the initial suspension, it's not any concession at all to refuse to raise it.  And if they are right about the initial suspension, then there's no chance of a bias argument succeeding so what's the point?
Maybe I'm missing an angle.  It feels like a myopic drop-in rather than anything thoughtful.

 
Yeah, i's all part of the general incoherence (or dastardly genius) of the NFL's position. They clamor for deference to the arbiter when it suits them, but then turn around and claim supra-arbiter powers when that suits them.

 

[djbayko]

 
 
Kind of different situations imo.
 
When you forget and leave your phone in the car you never have a chance to correct the lapse.
 
When you have a policy to routinely destroy your phone, if you lapse one day the next day is another chance to destroy it. Then the day after and so on. It's hard to make an argument that destroying the phone is a routine practice when you have several older but still relatively recent phones that were not destroyed. It's just bad optics even if it doesn't mean anything.

It's no different because my point is that there are all sorts of reasons why one might break from routine. It doesn't take a lot of creativity to come up with a list of plausible explanations. As Hooper mentioned above, it might not have even been Brady's own decision to break that pattern.

In fact, one could argue that the seeming contradictory nature of the evidence shows that he's likely telling the truth. It wasn't an answer to a surprise question where he was put on the spot. It was their own presentation which they had many weeks to build. If you have that much time to manufacture a lie, you come up with a simple straightforward one and go all in. Real life tends to be more nuanced though.

 

[Sportsbstn]

 
Judge pushing for the NFL to move off 4 games and settle. NFL says Commish actually held back from increasing the suspension, so Brady lucky to be at 4. Stop pushing us to settle for less than 3.  

 
The 4 games was based on pretty much nothing/completely flawed info, so why not 8?   NFL's arguements keep getting better and better.

 

[genoasalami]

Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  13m13 minutes ago
NFL now says Brady more than "generally aware"; that he "knew about, approved, consented to, & provided inducements in support of tampering"
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  12m12 minutes ago
NFL's claimed evidence that Brady had "direct involvement" in ball tampering: 1. Text from Jastremski to McNally re: convo w/ Brady (cont.)
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  10m10 minutes ago
2. "Sudden spike in communications between Jastremski and Brady following the AFC Championship Game" (cont.)
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  9m9 minutes ago
3. "Evidence of McNally’s demands for cash, clothing and autographed items from Brady, some of which Brady provided"
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  8m8 minutes ago
Other NFL bases for concluding Brady was "involved": 4. Goodell's "assessment of Brady’s credibility" at the arbitration hearing (cont.)

 

[dcmissle]

I thought people here had shown that the NFL could not do this.  

It cannot, not really, but it's fun and useful to say you can. This came up a couple of months ago, and some of us argued you cannot increase a penalty on appeal, or it is not really an appeal.

The NFL is trolling us at this point but trolling with a purpose.

If -- IF -- I am right that Berman does not want to transform an 800 lb gorilla without conscience into an 8000 pounder, this little contention could prove very dangerous for the League. The final insult.

 

[DJnVa]

Once in a while I get the idea that the lawyers are telling Goodell "no, we really don't want to include that" and he's all like "Yes dammit!! Put it in there!"

 

[bankshot1]

Been like that for awhile.

 
Roger's "Law of the shop"-make up shit as you go along.

 

[dcmissle]

screaming tweets amusing as NFL counsel conceded before Berman that the League had no direct evidence of TB's involvement

 

[Eddie Jurak]

What is the purpose they are trolling with? Trying to tick off Berman? Are they looking for an extreme opinion that they can shoot down on appeal?

 

[soxhop411]

Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  13m13 minutes ago
NFL now says Brady more than "generally aware"; that he "knew about, approved, consented to, & provided inducements in support of tampering"
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  12m12 minutes ago
NFL's claimed evidence that Brady had "direct involvement" in ball tampering: 1. Text from Jastremski to McNally re: convo w/ Brady (cont.)
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  10m10 minutes ago
2. "Sudden spike in communications between Jastremski and Brady following the AFC Championship Game" (cont.)
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  9m9 minutes ago
3. "Evidence of McNally’s demands for cash, clothing and autographed items from Brady, some of which Brady provided"
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  8m8 minutes ago
Other NFL bases for concluding Brady was "involved": 4. Goodell's "assessment of Brady’s credibility" at the arbitration hearing (cont.)

Sure. He is now more than generally aware.

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  13m13 minutes ago
NFL now says Brady more than "generally aware"; that he "knew about, approved, consented to, & provided inducements in support of tampering"
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  12m12 minutes ago
NFL's claimed evidence that Brady had "direct involvement" in ball tampering: 1. Text from Jastremski to McNally re: convo w/ Brady (cont.)
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  10m10 minutes ago
2. "Sudden spike in communications between Jastremski and Brady following the AFC Championship Game" (cont.)
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  9m9 minutes ago
3. "Evidence of McNally’s demands for cash, clothing and autographed items from Brady, some of which Brady provided"
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL  8m8 minutes ago
Other NFL bases for concluding Brady was "involved": 4. Goodell's "assessment of Brady’s credibility" at the arbitration hearing (cont.)
 

 
 
Cash from Brady? Knowing the NFL, McNally was a quarter short at the Pepsi machine and hit up Brady as he was passing by. 

 

[Byrdbrain]

That the "sudden spike" in communication after he found out he was being accused of cheating is viewed as evidence of a conspiracy is so bizarre that I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen all the other bizarre crap the NFL has done.

 

[JeffLedbetter]

So, after hearing forever that the federal court wouldn't consider the evidence that Goodell/NFL used to make decision. Then, in their brief, they cite five reasons -- text from Jastremski to McNally, sudden spike in comm between Brady & Jastremski, evidence of McNally's request for memorabilia & Brady's granting of that, Goodell's assessment of Brady's credibility at appeal, Brady's failure to cooperate w/ appeal.
 
OK, I get the hubris part of Goodell saying "I get to make the decision and it's in the CBA," and like most, not a lawyer, but doesn't including the ridiculously thin evidence on how Goodell ruled and then upheld ruling in the NFL's brief somehow open the doors for scrutiny of how there is no proof (as in, the balls weren't actually deflated?)? And does the fact that Berman was inquiring about proof about deflation in AFC championship only further illuminate the fact that NFL has nothing?

 

[canderson]

The NFL claims they have evidence two days after the judge states he has seen none at all.

Interesting.

 

[Harry Hooper]

That the "sudden spike" in communication after he found out he was being accused of cheating is viewed as evidence of a conspiracy is so bizarre that I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen all the other bizarre crap the NFL has done.

 
And cheating to an enormous extent. Oh, and trying to get 100 footballs and everything else prepared for the Super Bowl

 

[soxhop411]

screaming tweets amusing as NFL counsel conceded before Berman that the League had no direct evidence of TB's involvement

I assume the judge will not smile upon this?

 

[E5 Yaz]

The NFL is going ahead with the tar-and-feathering so that, years from now, guys like Tomase will recall all these claims as fact

 

[Eddie Jurak]

That the "sudden spike" in communication after he found out he was being accused of cheating is viewed as evidence of a conspiracy is so bizarre that I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen all the other bizarre crap the NFL has done.

Yes.  How would an innocent player have behaved?

 

[Hoya81]

 
 
Cash from Brady? Knowing the NFL, McNally was a quarter short at the Pepsi machine and hit up Brady as he was passing by. 

Jastremski said that Brady would regularly give him a Xmas or end of season tip (up to $1500) and helped him get tickets other sporting events. This is in addition to regularly signing items for JJ and other Pats employees, some of which JJ flipped to McNally.

NFL is using TB's generosity to low level employees against him.

 

[Harry Hooper]

It cannot, not really, but it's fun and useful to say you can. This came up a couple of months ago, and some of us argued you cannot increase a penalty on appeal, or it is not really an appeal.

 

 
 
One can dream of Berman ruling on precisely this point. It certainly highlight the inconsistency of not allowing extensive cross-examination if it's truly not an appeal.
 
 

Once in a while I get the idea that the lawyers are telling Goodell "no, we really don't want to include that" and he's all like "Yes dammit!! Put it in there!"

 
Maybe that's true?

 

[djbayko]

Yes.  How would an innocent player have behaved?

Innocent Brady: "I've NEVER asked for anyone to break the rules, and everyone is accusing me of doing so because the balls were too soft. I know it's Bird's job to look after ball pressure. I should call him ask him what the hell is going on. No, I'd better not do that - it'll make me look guilty. Zoiks!"

 

[Harry Hooper]

Jastremski said that Brady would regularly give him a Xmas or end of season tip (up to $1500) and helped him get tickets other sporting events. This is in addition to regularly signing items for JJ, some of which JJ flipped to McNally.

NFL is using TB's generosity to low level employees against him.

 
Wow, and no doubt there are 37 other low-level employees willing to testify under oath that Brady did the same for them.
 
Edit: And if it's the AFCCG that's supposedly under examination here, how fiendishly clever for Brady to dole out those gifts over multiple seasons in preparation.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

If communication between Brady and McNally had stopped after the AFC championship instead of increasing, the NFL would have called that suspicious too.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

 
Wow, and no doubt there are 37 other low-level employees willing to testify under oath that Brady did the same for them.

Are you trying to get Brady banned for life?

 

[In Vino Vinatieri]

 
 
Cash from Brady? Knowing the NFL, McNally was a quarter short at the Pepsi machine and hit up Brady as he was passing by. 

Evidence of McNally's demands for cash, clothing, autographed items, a harem of escorts, private jets, cocaine, murder-for-hire services on retainer, a goat, a mansion next to a golf course, a moon base, and cute puppy dog ritual sacrifices from Brady, some of which Brady provided...
 
It's a miracle Goodell went so easy on him, tbh

 

[steveluck7]

I love that the texts between the 2 dorito dinks about how Brady better give them stuff is now evidence that Brady gave them stuff.