#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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natpastime162

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NortheasternPJ said:
So we're back to it's an independent investigation again? Nice work Rog. Way to stumble through that question.

Props to Volin. He did something good.
 
Bit of a timing discrepancy in Rog's response.  Not that truth and transparency are important
 

TheoShmeo

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Some have posited that Goodell had no choice but to stick with four games given that many of the owners, the men who pay him his ridiculous salary, want that.  And the corollary is that while he cannot want to lose in Court, that if he does it is of far less moment to him in that he can claim that he did all that he could and it was the big bad Judge who was easy on Brady.
 
That could explain Goodell being rather cavalier in discussing the settlement and making the rookie mistake of going back to the "independent investigation" shtick.
 
Either that or he's a blooming idiot.  Or both.
 
Goodell is now lurching very close to Grady and Dreith on my all time most hated sports villains list.  He's despicable in truly every way. 
 

Eddie Jurak

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TheoShmeo said:
Some have posited that Goodell had no choice but to stick with four games given that many of the owners, the men who pay him his ridiculous salary, want that.  And the corollary is that while he cannot want to lose in Court, that if he does it is of far less moment to him in that he can claim that he did all that he could and it was the big bad Judge who was easy on Brady.
 
That could explain Goodell being rather cavalier in discussing the settlement and making the rookie mistake of going back to the "independent investigation" shtick.
 
Either that or he's a blooming idiot.  Or both.
 
Goodell is now lurching very close to Grady and Dreith on my all time most hated sports villains list.  He's despicable in truly every way. 
I'd put him worse.
 

jacklamabe65

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TheoShmeo said:
Some have posited that Goodell had no choice but to stick with four games given that many of the owners, the men who pay him his ridiculous salary, want that.  And the corollary is that while he cannot want to lose in Court, that if he does it is of far less moment to him in that he can claim that he did all that he could and it was the big bad Judge who was easy on Brady.
 
That could explain Goodell being rather cavalier in discussing the settlement and making the rookie mistake of going back to the "independent investigation" shtick.
 
Either that or he's a blooming idiot.  Or both.
 
Goodell is now lurching very close to Grady and Dreith on my all time most hated sports villains list.  He's despicable in truly every way. 
1A. Dreith
1B. Goodell
2. Grady
 

Eddie Jurak

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TheoShmeo said:
Some have posited that Goodell had no choice but to stick with four games given that many of the owners, the men who pay him his ridiculous salary, want that.  And the corollary is that while he cannot want to lose in Court, that if he does it is of far less moment to him in that he can claim that he did all that he could and it was the big bad Judge who was easy on Brady.
 
That could explain Goodell being rather cavalier in discussing the settlement and making the rookie mistake of going back to the "independent investigation" shtick.
 
Either that or he's a blooming idiot.  Or both.
 
Goodell is now lurching very close to Grady and Dreith on my all time most hated sports villains list.  He's despicable in truly every way. 
I'd put him worse.
 

The Mort Report

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I'm just listening to some of the clips from the news conference today, he basically blames Wells for not correcting ESPN's inaccurate information, that the NFL was too busy focusing on "independent" investigation.  Which he said started on the Thursday following the AFC championship game.  So apparently those 3 or 4 days were not enough time for him to scan over those 12 football readings, compare to the ESPN report and say "hey, these don't match!"  Why aren't his PR people telling to shut his mouth?
 

Reverend

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The Mort Report said:
I'm just listening to some of the clips from the news conference today, he basically blames Wells for not correcting ESPN's inaccurate information, that the NFL was too busy focusing on "independent" investigation.  Which he said started on the Thursday following the AFC championship game.  So apparently those 3 or 4 days were not enough time for him to scan over those 12 football readings, compare to the ESPN report and say "hey, these don't match!"  Why aren't his PR people telling to shut his mouth?
 
I think they're probably more intent on repeating the line so that it becomes widely accepted as true.
 
How many non-Patriots fans do you think read that transcript?
 

PedroKsBambino

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I would not want to explain why I was talking about the case tomorrow to Judge Berman were I RG.   I hope he reams him for answering these questions---we can rest assured Kessler and NFLPA will raise the issue.
 

Myt1

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Nah, if Berman's inclined to get mad about it, you don't have to hold his ears and drag him there. If he's not, you look like you're whining to the principal. Stay above the fray and make them look worse by comparison. And for chrissakes preemptively put a cork in Yee.
 

Myt1

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There is no Rev said:
 
I think they're probably more intent on repeating the line so that it becomes widely accepted as true.
 
How many non-Patriots fans do you think read that transcript?
Pretty sure Tree Rollins and Danny Ainge did.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Goodell goes up there with Harry Frazee and that dumbass Celtics owner who traded for Curtis Rowe and Sidney Wicks over Red's vociferous objection. 
 

The Mort Report

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PedroKsBambino said:
I would not want to explain why I was talking about the case tomorrow to Judge Berman were I RG.   I hope he reams him for answering these questions---we can rest assured Kessler and NFLPA will raise the issue.
 
Haven't you heard?  Goodell is not just above the CBA, but all law.  He only answers to God, and he's trying to work a clause in the next CBA to change that
 

geoduck no quahog

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Goodell:

"Knowing I may be an independent arbiter in the case, I maintained separation from the evidence until an independent investigation was complete. The only people who knew the halftime readings were the ones in that room and the Wells folks, none of whom were authorized to release information before the report was done. See? I'm a really fair person at heart. Just protecting the integrity of the investigation."
 

lithos2003

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I know this is the defamation topic again and it's probably been beaten to death, but after reading the Judge's decision for tossing out the Vilma defamation suit, it sounds to me like Brady has a much stronger case than Vilma did when he tried.  From an old article:
 
 
Judge Helen Berrigan found Vilma's claims, and the evidence to support them, to be insufficient and upheld Goodell's right to investigate conduct detrimental to the league under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement.  But Berrigan took a swipe at Goodell's initial investigation and the pall the entire situation placed over the Saints' season.  "While the Court is extremely disturbed by the fundamental lack of due process in Goodell's denying the players the identities of and the right to confront their accusers, that was substantially rectified later in the process," Berrigan wrote. "So while the process was initially procedurally flawed, the statements were ultimately found to have enough support to defeat the defamation claims."
 
From a layman's perspective, since this decision came AFTER Tagliabue vacated the punishments, she tossed it under the premise that all's well that ends well.  Brady never got that fair and impartial hearing, nor will he since the federal case is about the process not the guilt.  Maybe I'm just throwing stuff against a wall...
 
Link: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/saints/2013/01/17/judge-helen-berrigan-dismisses-jonathan-vilma-defamation-lawsuit-against-nfl-commissioner-roger-goodell/1843089/
 

BroodsSexton

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Myt1 said:
Nah, if Berman's inclined to get mad about it, you don't have to hold his ears and drag him there. If he's not, you look like you're whining to the principal. Stay above the fray and make them look worse by comparison. And for chrissakes preemptively put a cork in Yee.
It can be done subtlely. Mention that you understand the NFL's position from the press interview Goodell gave yesterday, which was different in some ways from the settlement efforts you've been hoping would come to fruition...
 

Eddie Jurak

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BroodsSexton said:
It can be done subtlely. Mention that you understand the NFL's position from the press interview Goodell gave yesterday, which was different in some ways from the settlement efforts you've been hoping would come to fruition...
I thought you said subtly.
 

BroodsSexton

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lol.  exactly.  as long as you do it in the right way, I don't think it looks like complaining.  In other words, don't complain.
 

Eddie Jurak

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BroodsSexton said:
lol.  exactly.  as long as you do it in the right way, I don't think it looks like complaining.  In other words, don't complain.
Maybe they should speak in the style of Kevin Nealon's Mr. Subliminal.
 

BroodsSexton

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Maybe they should just cut to the chase and tell Berman that Goodell is a raging douche, continues to act like a raging douche--including in his press interview yesterday, contrary to the judge's advice to tone down the rhetoric--and while the NFLPA was willing to negotiate in good faith, they're dealing with a raging douche being enabled by one of the biggest law firms in the city, which desperately needs to be checked in its ethics. 
 
Seriously, judges aren't babes in the woods--especially a guy like Berman who's been around for a good long while.  If I'm the NFLPA, I come into the settlement conference tomorrow telling the judge exactly what the problem is, and saying that they're willing to negotiate a reasonable settlement, but there's no partner for peace.  I see no harm in that posture. 
 

Otis Foster

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BroodsSexton said:
Maybe they should just cut to the chase and tell Berman that Goodell is a raging douche, continues to act like a raging douche--including in his press interview yesterday, contrary to the judge's advice to tone down the rhetoric--and while the NFLPA was willing to negotiate in good faith, they're dealing with a raging douche being enabled by one of the biggest law firms in the city, which desperately needs to be checked in its ethics. 
 
Seriously, judges aren't babes in the woods--especially a guy like Berman who's been around for a good long while.  If I'm the NFLPA, I come into the settlement conference tomorrow telling the judge exactly what the problem is, and saying that they're willing to negotiate a reasonable settlement, but there's no partner for peace.  I see no harm in that posture
 
Unless they call your bluff, in which case you're screwed, because TB won't have given you any authority to settle if there's a suspension, and that will get flushed out PDQ.
 

OCST

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Myt1 said:
Nah, if Berman's inclined to get mad about it, you don't have to hold his ears and drag him there. If he's not, you look like you're whining to the principal. Stay above the fray and make them look worse by comparison. And for chrissakes preemptively put a cork in Yee.
 
Don't even bring him.
 
Not even to roll the rolly bag.
 

dcmissle

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Right. Roger's douchiness is not going to matter to Berman if neither side moves.

It does not matter if TB's refusal to move is more objectively reasonable than RG's. At least it doesn't matter at the settlement stage. At that stage, Berman's client is a deal.
 

BroodsSexton

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To Otis: Not following. I'm talking in private session with Berman. Put the onus on the NFL to make an offer to Berman. Obviously if he demands your opening offer you start at a $5,000 fine (based on the rules (expressing a willingness to the Judge to negotiate over the amount). "Reasonable" means based on a reason.
 

Ed Hillel

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E5 Yaz said:
 
Nah. They have a second one of these set for next week. 
I've halfway convinced myself that this some way, some how, is actually going to end up in the Supreme Court and we'll have our binding decision in 2-3 years.
 

54thMA

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CaptainLaddie said:
Grady was just stupid.  He wasn't a bad guy, just dumb as a bag of hammers.
 
Agreed; I can't hate the man for being a moron.
 
Dreith on the other hand is a piece of shit, he admitted the 1976 playoff game was a bag job and he was proud of it.
 

 
 

Myt1

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OilCanShotTupac said:
 
Don't even bring him.
 
Not even to roll the rolly bag.
I meant re: the media. If he wanted to come to the conference, I'd tell him that it was in EDNY.
 

ivanvamp

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54thMA said:
 
Agreed; I can't hate the man for being a moron.
 
Dreith on the other hand is a piece of shit, he admitted the 1976 playoff game was a bag job and he was proud of it.
 
 
 
I'd love to see a link to THAT admission!
 

DJnVa

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54thMA said:
Dreith on the other hand is a piece of shit, he admitted the 1976 playoff game was a bag job and he was proud of it.
 
 
 
What? Where?
 

Myt1

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BroodsSexton said:
Maybe they should just cut to the chase and tell Berman that Goodell is a raging douche, continues to act like a raging douche--including in his press interview yesterday, contrary to the judge's advice to tone down the rhetoric--and while the NFLPA was willing to negotiate in good faith, they're dealing with a raging douche being enabled by one of the biggest law firms in the city, which desperately needs to be checked in its ethics. 
 
Seriously, judges aren't babes in the woods--especially a guy like Berman who's been around for a good long while.  If I'm the NFLPA, I come into the settlement conference tomorrow telling the judge exactly what the problem is, and saying that they're willing to negotiate a reasonable settlement, but there's no partner for peace.  I see no harm in that posture. 
If the facts suit that, I'm happy enough to provide them in response to a direct request from the judge. But I don't like characterizing, well, much of anything, but especially opposing counsel's actions, especially if I don't have much settlement flexibility myself. And I don't think that the rhetoric and settlement negotiations have a ton of compelling or convincing linkage.
 

Koufax

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That's a nice summary of the flaws of the NFL's case.  It's long on facts, but short on law.. 
 
While the issue of Wells' independence makes for interesting copy, it strikes me as a weak argument because of the CBA, which doesn't call for independent invesigators or arbitrators. 
 

mwonow

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Van Everyman said:
Dowd is at it again:
 
 
Great post. Should be required reading for mediots before they opine on today's events.
 
My guess is that Reiss has already read it. Somebody here either is or is buddies with Volin. Maybe that person could review/forward the link?
 

pappymojo

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54thMA said:
 
Agreed; I can't hate the man for being a moron.
 
 
Wait a second. I hate plenty of men for being morons... Volin, Stephen A Smith, 95% of ESPN... Grady Little....
 

TheoShmeo

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mwonow said:
 
Great post. Should be required reading for mediots before they opine on today's events.
 
My guess is that Reiss has already read it. Somebody here either is or is buddies with Volin. Maybe that person could review/forward the link?
I'm not friendly with Volin but now he, Danny Boy and Sanctimonious Bob have it in their in box. 
 
I'd suggest sending it to John Tomase (who this morning told us that he's 100% sure that Tom is guilty of tampering with the balls but did not share the basis for that knowledge) but I'm even less convinced that a purpose would be served in sharing it with him than the other three.
 

tims4wins

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Wetzel with another strong article
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/brady-vs--goodell-hits-new-battleground--but-theme-remains--nfl-isn-t-fighting-fair--062446546.html
 
 
Even if you suspect Brady is as guilty as sin there is no denying the NFL had a profoundly weak case here.
 
The proof is that the NFL felt compelled to state Brady said the exact opposite of what he actually said, not correct false media stories, hire a non-independent/independent investigator, ignore overwhelming scientific conclusions and even change the verdict after the verdict was rendered – in May, the NFL claimed it was "more probable than not" that Brady was "generally aware" of the deflation; in the July appeal decision, Goodell significantly upped that and despite a lack of additional evidence suddenly claimed Brady "approved of, consented to, and provided inducements and rewards in support of a scheme."
If this was a fair and strong investigation, then none of that is needed. If Ted Wells did a good job, then he could've stood on his own.
 


The longer this continues, the greater the chance more testimony or emails or documents emerge. That's the hope; at least for anyone who realizes the NFL's conduct in this matter is way more interesting than what the Deflator did in the bathroom.
 


Only, eventually, because Brady has kept fighting, the cracks have become impossible to ignore. His appeal was a goldmine. Goodell brazenly misrepresenting testimony? A verdict being rewritten? False, anti-Brady stories still mysteriously finding their way to publication?
 

Jimbodandy

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TheoShmeo said:
I'm not friendly with Volin but now he, Danny Boy and Sanctimonious Bob have it in their in box. 
 
I'd suggest sending it to John Tomase (who this morning told us that he's 100% sure that Tom is guilty of tampering with the balls but did not share the basis for that knowledge) but I'm even less convinced that a purpose would be served in sharing it with him than the other three.
 
Tomase is essentially patient zero (thanks bullshit walkthrough story).  May as well try to teach your puppy to play chess with you.
 

TheoShmeo

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Brady missed practice yesterday and will miss today's walk through.  http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/11/tom-brady-misses-patriots-practice/NXorLytB4aTxv0q3vHidrL/story.html?p1=Article_InThisSection_Bottom
 
Nothing to get hysterical about.  Tom rarely plays in week one.  A veteran like Tom can surely miss a few practices without consequence, especially at this time of year.  
 
But he will be absent again next week for a few days.  And on some level, it has to be a negative to be dealing with lawyers and judges rather than being part of the regular routine in Foxboro.  Pro athletes famously thrive on routine and Tom has always said how much he enjoys practice and how important he thinks it is. 
 
Again, no one needs to put it in context (early in training camp, this isn't Tom's game anyway, etc.) for me.  That is fully understood by all, I think.
 
But being forced to focus on things other than football and discretionary time away from the field by this mess is not wholly irrelevant in my view, even for a guy like Tom who seems so good at isolating on what's important and ignoring all the noise. 
 
It takes two to tango and that the NFL would rather have any reduction be imposed by the Judge rather than agreed upon in advance seems to be quite real.  So regardless of whether doing a deal is advisable for Tom, it may not be possible.
 
But if Tom can settle this on terms that are at the lowest range of acceptable to him, ending the missed practices/court appearances  is one reason why I hope that he does.    
 

Gambler7

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BigSoxFan said:
The NFL has provided zero proof of any wrongdoing by Brady, yet, they want him to admit guilt? This is all about giving them the big headline to justify this entire shitshow. I hope Brady keeps relenting.
https://twitter.com/StephStradley/status/631455053006508032
 

TheoShmeo

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Yeah, as much as I want this thing to settle, admitting guilt in light of the weakness of the NFL's substantive case and the implications for Tom long term is the last thing that I think that Brady should do.
 
If it's true and not just a smoke screen, it's yet another example of Goodell having his head up his ass.  And yet another indication that this thing really cannot be settled, as much as it should be.