#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Cabin Mirror]

No he actually acknowledged these emails came from the NFLPA, (I was typing on my phone earlier) but he overlooked that and made the bigger point that the NFL can't be trusted to keep irrelevant things private and under no circumstances should Tom Brady have give his phone to the NFL for them to release potentially private things in his life that have no bearing on this case. 
 
It was actually a lucid, well toned, narrative. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. And for the record I didn't watch it live, my kid came and got me and made me watch on rewind. 

 
I too was incredulous while watching that SAS clip.
 
Say what you want about him, but at least he has the guts to admit he was wrong about the cell phone thing. I respect that.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Is it possible that EVEN IF the NFL wins the court case "Because the CBA allows Goodell to act in this manor" that the judge Still slams him?
 
Something along the (overly) simple lines of....
 
"While I cannot find a violation of the CBA to invalidate them, the  assumptions about Mr. Brady or the Patriots alleged tampering of footballs and punishment handed down are so outlandish as to be unbelievable.  With that said I must sadly rule in favor of the NFL and uphold their findings and punishment. I apologize for this railroad Job Mr Brady. Its totally undeserved."
 
I know judges have alot of leniency and I assume could "make a point" even if they did not believe in the actual finding. 
 
Do judges do this?
Would it change the public perception?

If the judge really feels that strongly I doubt he would have much too trouble parsing the language to legally find in Brady's favor.

 

[Leather]

Are you asking how can the reputation of such a man be in the palm of some fool's hand?

 
Here come's the story of Tom Brady;
The man the commissioner told to take a knee;
For something that he never done;
Just threw the football too well, and 4 times he was
The champion on the worrrrrrrld....

 

[ivanvamp]

Roger Goodell makes Bud Selig look like the greatest commissioner in the history of sports.

 

[Super Nomario]

Big NFLPA guy, is he?

SN: Didn't the Vikings do the same thing with Peterson? We all know how that turned out...

Not really. The Vikes held Peterson out of the Pats game but then tried to reinstate him. After public outcry he was placed on the Commissioner's Exempt List (by the NFL, though it appears Minnesota and maybe even Peterson might have had input there). Then things were basically in the NFL's hands: http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/11/17/minnesota-vikings-adrian-peterson-suspended
 
If the Vikings had come out and said at the outset: we're going to voluntarily suspend Peterson for six games, or eight games, does the NFL step in? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[soxhop411]

Sally Jenkins ‏@sallyjenx  4m4 minutes ago
Judge Berman should demand — not under seal - Jeff Pash’s communications with Ted Wells re Brady report and all notes on it by NFL staff.

 

[Bleedred]

I guess to add context, and I promise not to derail thread any further after this, I can't imagine this happening with the MLBPA. Think there would be much more of a rallying cry around a player of TB's stature, who was being railroaded on such flimsy grounds. Just an observation about how weak the NFLPA has been, and their rank and file membership has failed to step up on this.

While I think you're mostly right on this (NFLPA weakness), this issue has been extremely nuanced and hard to follow if you want to actually meaningfully understand it.  Less than 5% of NFL players IMO would care to read everything necessary to educate themselves on the issue.  Shit, we have some of SOSH's finest lawyers giving very detailed explanations of the case, etc.  It' s just too easy to say "I wouldn't deflate footballs, so fuck Tom Brady, I have more important things to worry about."

 

[johnmd20]

Sorry, I think my point stands. Players have spoken out continually throughout Goodell's tenure, during which he has been fairly heavy-handed and arbitrary in his discipline, but have been conspicuously quiet when it involves a player and team that many of them have been on the losing end to, and frankly, intensely dislike. I think it has much more to do with that level of pig-headed bitterness and really dumb short-sightedness, that it does with any real fear of the consequences speaking out would bring.

 
It doesn't stand, unless you can point to the times Tom Brady spoke out against those penalties issued against other players and teams.

 

[johnmd20]

I guess to add context, and I promise not to derail thread any further after this, I can't imagine this happening with the MLBPA. Think there would be much more of a rallying cry around a player of TB's stature, who was being railroaded on such flimsy grounds. Just an observation about how weak the NFLPA has been, and their rank and file membership has failed to step up on this.

 
Those non guaranteed contracts probably muzzle a lot of players.

 

[Dewy4PrezII]

Holy shit:

https://mobile.twitter.com/colts/status/629316797427249152

Irsay must be low on Oxy

 

[Icculus]

 
Tons? How many voted in the poll? Maybe 10?
 
I love that I'm not taken seriously but you flying in the face of over 27,000 people is the beacon of serious football fandom.

 
How many board members do you think it takes to get to a ton? I think 10 is a conservative estimate.
 
I'll take the votes of 10 people who have actually followed the facts and debate over any number of people who basically clicked the "I hate the Patriots" button. But feel free to put your trust in those national internet polls.

 

[Trlicek's Whip]

Andy Benoit at MMQB:
 

1. I think the more I read about Deflategate, the less faith I have in the NFL. I’m not saying Tom Brady and the Patriots are totally innocent, but no sensible person would describe the league’s proof as being anything close to “beyond a reasonable doubt.” And just because the CBA doesn’t say it has to be doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be. I’m not big on calling for someone’s firing, but Roger Goodell went after the sport’s grandest star (maybe ever) and this decade’s most accomplished franchise. In doing so, he created a gargantuan distraction for both during Super Bowl week. Then he allowed the misinformation from that distraction to percolate for many months, damaging the brand of all parties involved (including, indirectly, the league’s). This is the antithesis of “protecting The Shield.” Barring a turn of events in this Deflategate saga—and with the way things have gone, there very well could be another turn of events—Goodell should lose his job.

 
EDITED to reflect this wasn't PK talking.
 
Basically if King MMQB's umbrella is putting this it into words this bluntly, as a bellwether it's like the tolltaker ducking out of sight right before Sonny Corelone gets machine-gunned to death by Barzini's men.

 

[SocrManiac]

Irsay must be low on Oxy

 

[Laser Show]

FWIW the byline on that is Andy Benoit, not PK

 

[edmunddantes]

People do this all the time with the MMQB site. Those aren't King's words. They belong to Andy Benoit, but it is up on King's website. Still big but not as big.

 

[Trlicek's Whip]

FWIW the byline on that is Andy Benoit, not PK

 
Thanks. Still forceful under PK's banner and SI, but I fixed it to attribute the piece correctly.

 

[loshjott]

People do this all the time with the MMQB site. Those aren't King's words. They belong to Andy Benoit, but it is up on King's website. Still big but not as big.

 
Yeah, not nearly as big, but still important. 

 

[drbretto]

4th quarter comeback?

 

[Laser Show]

 
Thanks. Still forceful under PK's banner and SI, but I fixed it to attribute the piece correctly.

No problem - still huge, but I kinda figured PK himself writing that was too good to be true.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I think I'm in love. 
 

@sallyjenx I wonder if Judge Berman will request all underlying evidence and exhibits that led to Wells report. Seems this judge would make all public.

 

[Leather]

I mean, it's obvious to anyone following this that the thread that's begging to be pulled is the level of direction provided by the NFL to Wells prior to, during, and immediately after, the Wells Report's drafting.
 
I only hope Berman tugs on it.

 

[Joshv02]

Judges can ask for all sorts of things, but the parties already said there will be no discovery so I suspect that unless a side wants to use the information itself, the Judge isn't going out to get it.

 

[ivanvamp]

So just imagine this.....

Berman demands to see communication between the NFL and Wells, and it turns out that, really, for real, the NFL and Wells were concocting this entire thing.  And Brady's suspension gets overturned.  Ok fine.
 
The team penalties would stay in place.  Even then.  Because there's no frigging recourse for the Patriots.  

 

[Reverend]

 
Thanks. Still forceful under PK's banner and SI, but I fixed it to attribute the piece correctly.

 
The mods have recently decided to try to amp up the pressure on putting in proper descriptions and attributions to links and blurbs.
 
Stuff like this--confusion over who said what and what its correlated significance is--is one of many reasons why. We appreciate your help--thanks in advance.

 

[loshjott]

So just imagine this.....
Berman demands to see communication between the NFL and Wells, and it turns out that, really, for real, the NFL and Wells were concocting this entire thing.  And Brady's suspension gets overturned.  Ok fine.
 
The team penalties would stay in place.  Even then.  Because there's no frigging recourse for the Patriots.  

 
That's kind of a ridiculous fantasy, but I'll play along.
 
In that scenario Goodell could unilaterally remove the penalties on the Pats in the face of unrelenting pressure and calls for his job.

 

[Hoya81]

So just imagine this.....
Berman demands to see communication between the NFL and Wells, and it turns out that, really, for real, the NFL and Wells were concocting this entire thing.  And Brady's suspension gets overturned.  Ok fine.
 
The team penalties would stay in place.  Even then.  Because there's no frigging recourse for the Patriots.  

The only way the team penalties would get reduced is if RG resigns/is fired.

 

[Dewy4PrezII]

So if the balls were deflated it would only have been .5lbs each max given the change in temp explains the rest.

I do wonder if, after the shit storm from the 16psi Jets game, Dorrito Dink took it upon himself to test the balls in the bathroom to ensure that wouldn't happen again. In which case TB would not know anything about balls being deflated.

 

[johnmd20]

The only way the team penalties would get reduced is if RG resigns/is fired.

 
Man, wouldn't that really be something.

 

[Stevie1der]

Roger works for the owners, right?  Right now the national writers should be talking about two-deeps and training camps and new free agents and rookies; instead, their product is being overshadowed by this clusterfuck of a story.  Can the worm continue to turn enough that Roger's bosses tell him to settle, or are the owners pot-committed from a big picture labor standpoint to let Berman rule? 

 

[rodderick]

 
Man, wouldn't that really be something.

Oh great, we're reaching that stage again. You know, when we feel the tide is turning in our favor and that the Patriots/Brady will eventually be vindicated in some form. Every other time this blew up in our faces and the exact opposite happened, so I'll guard myself from excessively hopeful thoughts.

 

[johnmd20]

Oh great, we're reaching that stage again. You know, when we feel the tide is turning in our favor and that the Patriots/Brady will eventually be vindicated in some form. Every other time this blew up in our faces and the exact opposite happened, so I'll guard myself from excessively hopeful thoughts.

 
Yes, you are right. Expectations should be managed.

 

[Reverend]

The only way the team penalties would get reduced is if RG resigns/is fired.

 
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere--I found it awhile ago and then forgot about it--but according to the NFL Constitution and By-Laws (8.13), Goodell can't issue a fine of greater than $500,000 without approval by the Executive Committee (20 votes or 3/4, whichever is greater).
 
I haven't seen it reported that the Patriots' $1m fine went to the owners, but it sounds like it should have unless Goodell found some technicality or something (two $500,000 fines?).

 

[edmunddantes]

Oh great, we're reaching that stage again. You know, when we feel the tide is turning in our favor and that the Patriots/Brady will eventually be vindicated in some form. Every other time this blew up in our faces and the exact opposite happened, so I'll guard myself from excessively hopeful thoughts.

 
 

 
Yes, you are right. Expectations should be managed.

Yep. We have now entered the scary phase of this.
 
Just waiting for the other crazy shoe to drop at this point. 

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Oh great, we're reaching that stage again. You know, when we feel the tide is turning in our favor and that the Patriots/Brady will eventually be vindicated in some form. Every other time this blew up in our faces and the exact opposite happened, so I'll guard myself from excessively hopeful thoughts.

 
I feel you.  I have been among the most guilty at believing something good was going to happen before a runaway freight train goes smashing into Brady and the Pats.
 
However, as much as I am trying to temper my expectations, I can't help but remember that there is now an adult in the room in the form of Judge Berman.  I've read all the stuff in the legal thread, so I am well aware that from a legal Xs and Os view that Brady has a uphill climb.  But as others have pointed out, Judges are human too.  I am also inclined to believe that pushing for a settlement (vs. just rubber-stamping the arbitration award) and unsealing the transcript can be read at some level as a sign that Berman sees or is at least aware of the unusual circumstances surrounding this issue.

 

[Marciano490]

 
 
Yep. We have now entered the scary phase of this.
 
Just waiting for the other crazy shoe to drop at this point. 

 
You'd think someone with your name would be more optimistic about the prospects for vengeance.

 

[ivanvamp]

Great find Rev.  I wonder if anyone's checked into that?
 
Here's the relevant text:
 
Whenever the Commissioner, after notice and hearing, decides that an owner, shareholder, partner or holder of an interest in a member club, or any player, coach, officer, director, or employee thereof, or an officer, employee or official of the League has either violated the Constitution and Bylaws of the League or has been or is guilty of conduct detrimental to the welfare of the League or professional football, then the Commissioner shall have complete authority to: 

1. 
   (1)  Suspend and/or fine such person in an amount not in excess of five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000), or in the case of an unrescinded unauthorized sale, transfer, or assignment of a membership or an interest therein to any person other than a member of the transferor’s immediate family in violation of Section 3.5 hereof, the greater of (i) five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000), and (ii) an amount equal to 15% of the transaction value; and/or
   
2. 
   (2)  Cancel any contract or agreement of such person with the League or with any member thereof;
   
3. 
   (3)  In cases involving a violation of the prohibitions against tampering as set forth in Sections 9.1(C)(10) and (11), 9.2 and 12.1(B) hereof, award or transfer selection choices and/or deprive the offending club of a selection choice or choices; and
   
4. 
   (4)  In cases involving a violation affecting the competitive aspects of the game, award selection choices and/or deprive the offending club of a selection choice or choices and/or cancel any contract or agreement of such person with the League or with any member thereof and/or fine the offending club in an amount not in excess of five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000), or in the case of an unrescinded unauthorized sale, transfer, or assignment of a membership or an interest therein to any person other than a member of the transferor’s immediate family in violation of Section 3.5 hereof, the greater of (i) five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000), and (ii) an amount equal to 15% of the transaction value. 
   

Whenever the Commissioner determines that any punishment that the Commissioner has the power to impose pursuant to Section 8.13(A), is not adequate or sufficient, considering the nature and gravity of the offense involved, he may refer the matter to the Executive Committee, with a recommendation that all or any part of the following additional or increased punishments or discipline be imposed.....
 
The Executive Committee may impose such other or additional discipline or punishment as it may decide.



Any such ruling or decision by the Commissioner under the circumstances referred to in this Section 8.13(B), after approval or ratification by the affirmative vote of no less than three-fourths or 20, whichever is greater, of the members of the League, as aforesaid, shall be final, conclusive, and unappealable. 






 
That last line is where we get the idea that Kraft has no recourse.  But I wonder if the rest of this was followed.  And if it wasn't, if THAT means that the Patriots DO have a recourse after all.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Judges can ask for all sorts of things, but the parties already said there will be no discovery so I suspect that unless a side wants to use the information itself, the Judge isn't going out to get it.

This judge appears to want a settlement, though. What better way to force one?

 

[Norm loves Vera]

As long as SharksofVegas doesn't tweet "Goddell steps down, all charges dropped" I am liking the direction this saga is going as the truth leaks out.

 

[drbretto]

So if the balls were deflated it would only have been .5lbs each max given the change in temp explains the rest.

I do wonder if, after the shit storm from the 16psi Jets game, Dorrito Dink took it upon himself to test the balls in the bathroom to ensure that wouldn't happen again. In which case TB would not know anything about balls being deflated.

 
Definitely not impossible, but would still require more assumptions than assuming Wells was correct to ignore Anderson's recollection on the gauges. That leaves the PSI numbers by less than the width of the needle. That doesn't require anyone to be doing anything nefarious at all and fits Brady's story that one time the balls were too high, so they all settled on 12.5 from here on out and that's it. 

 

[Joshv02]

 
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere--I found it awhile ago and then forgot about it--but according to the NFL Constitution and By-Laws (8.13), Goodell can't issue a fine of greater than $500,000 without approval by the Executive Committee (20 votes or 3/4, whichever is greater).
 
I haven't seen it reported that the Patriots' $1m fine went to the owners, but it sounds like it should have unless Goodell found some technicality or something (two $500,000 fines?).

I can't seem to put my hands on it now, by Volin reported it was 500,000 for deflating balls and 500,000 for not cooperating.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Oh great, we're reaching that stage again. You know, when we feel the tide is turning in our favor and that the Patriots/Brady will eventually be vindicated in some form. Every other time this blew up in our faces and the exact opposite happened, so I'll guard myself from excessively hopeful thoughts.

 
Yeah, that's sort of my reaction too.  The pattern is kind of familiar -- I call it the sharks of vegas stage.  The next stage is the Mike Kensil stage.  That one usually goes something like this:  "Does anyone think the judge might issue an order holding Mike Kensil in contempt and telling him to bring his toothbrush, because he's going to put him in prison if he doesn't testify under oath that this was a sting"?
 
That said, I will admit that the worm does seem to be turning slightly.  I live in Arizona and I'm the designated Pats fan.  I get everyone in my office when there's a new turn in this fucked up story, looking to razz me or for my position.  The tenor is different in the last 24 hours -- a bit more "what is Goodell doing here," and "ok, I get you're saying Brady was railroaded, but what would be Goodell's motivation."  Not all are convinced, but the nature of the questions makes it sound as though they are viewing this whole thing ever so slightly more skeptically.  FWIW (probably not much). 

 

[drbretto]

I can't seem to put my hands on it now, by Volin reported it was 500,000 for deflating balls and 500,000 for not cooperating.

 
Forgive me because I don't remember the details (though that sounds about right) I DO definitely remember this topic coming up in the beginning and that the $1,000,000 number definitely came from two charges at the maximum penalty. 

 

[RFDA2000]

 
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere--I found it awhile ago and then forgot about it--but according to the NFL Constitution and By-Laws (8.13), Goodell can't issue a fine of greater than $500,000 without approval by the Executive Committee (20 votes or 3/4, whichever is greater).
 
I haven't seen it reported that the Patriots' $1m fine went to the owners, but it sounds like it should have unless Goodell found some technicality or something (two $500,000 fines?).

I can't find it right now, but perhaps someone will remember seeing it as well.  I think Goodell fined the Pats twice for $500,000 to get around that.  Once for deflated balls.  Once for not cooperating.
 
EDIT: I am slow, but glad my memory doesn't seem to be failing.

 

[Trlicek's Whip]

I can't seem to put my hands on it now, by Volin reported it was 500,000 for deflating balls and 500,000 for not cooperating.

 

 
Forgive me because I don't remember the details (though that sounds about right) I DO definitely remember this topic coming up in the beginning and that the $1,000,000 number definitely came from two charges at the maximum penalty. 

 
Quick search brought me to this summary which states it plainly. The Nation's sports editor Dave Zirin did a Q&A with Ms. Magazine online:
 

What do the punishments issued to the New England Patriots—including the $1,000,000 fine—mean for future offenders?
 
According to the collective bargaining agreement, the NFL is only allowed to fine up to $500,000. They just fined [the Patriots] a million dollars: $500,000 for deflating the footballs and $500,000 because they felt like Tom Brady refused to cooperate with the investigation. And that’s the thing about the NFL—they don’t have subpoena powers. They’re not a legal organization. They want to send a message to teams that when it comes to dealing with all issues, particularly [those] that revolve around “personal conduct”… that non-cooperation will be seen as an offense unto itself. This is the first time the NFL has really done that and they’re using the incredible platform and media attention this case has to send that message to every NFL team.

 

[dcdrew10]

Oh great, we're reaching that stage again. You know, when we feel the tide is turning in our favor and that the Patriots/Brady will eventually be vindicated in some form. Every other time this blew up in our faces and the exact opposite happened, so I'll guard myself from excessively hopeful thoughts.

 
What gives me hope is this is out of the hands of the NFL and anyone paid by the NFL. This is the first time that someone truly neutral will rule on this farce.

 

[Average Reds]

That last line is where we get the idea that Kraft has no recourse.  But I wonder if the rest of this was followed.  And if it wasn't, if THAT means that the Patriots DO have a recourse after all.

 
I would think that Kraft's actions in accepting the punishment are a tacit admission that he does not have a lot of sympathy among the other owners.
 
It would take proof that the entire charade was a set up for the sentiment among the owners to change.  I can't see that happening.

 

[DJnVa]

Just got a Yahoo alert on phone that Antonio Cromartie just blasted Goodell and spoke in support of Brady.


 

"Nobody is safe," Cromartie said on ESPN, via Newsday. "No matter who you are, Roger will do what he wants to do. ... It don't matter what the rules say, he's gonna make his own rules as he goes."
 

 

[Bleedred]

 
I would think that Kraft's actions in accepting the punishment are a tacit admission that he does not have a lot of sympathy among the other owners.
 
It would take proof that the entire charade was a set up for the sentiment among the owners to change.  I can't see that happening.

Agreed.  Plus, who gives a shit about the fine?  It's the draft picks that hurt, and those aren't being given back.

 

[steveluck7]

Agreed.  Plus, who gives a shit about the fine?  It's the draft picks that hurt, and those aren't being given back.

Exaclty, and if Brady's punishment sticks, Kraft still nets out positive as far as cash flow

 

[Van Everyman]

Just got a Yahoo alert on phone that Antonio Cromartie just blasted Goodell and spoke in support of Brady.


"Nobody is safe," Cromartie said on ESPN, via Newsday. "No matter who you are, Roger will do what he wants to do. ... It don't matter what the rules say, he's gonna make his own rules as he goes."

First, SAS, now Cromartie. Is it only a matter of time before Mark Brunell appears crying on ESPN over Brady being railroaded?