#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
All of this may be true and Brady may be innocent, but that does not necessarily mean the judge rules in his favor. Edit - Which is kind of lame to say, but people seem to be getting excited or think this is going one way. I don't think that's the case at all and the judge could easily come down either way. Not because he finds Brady's guilty but because the leeway of the CBA means RG can do this stuff.
It's been unfathomable to me as well that there has not been a huge public outcry of support for Brady from a large number of players around the league, given the amount of tension there has been regarding Goodell's disciplinary practices throughout his tenure. Really speaks poorly of the NFLPA rank and file, and reveals too many of them to be petty, short sighted, and really, not very bright. Which I guess is not breaking news.allstonite said:
Thus trained outside personnel. People that would know to do the tests the right way. Sorry didn't' make the point explicit enough.caesarbear said:
Like I said, it's his only hope, and it's still has very little chance of workin. However, if people want to know the avenue for getting back the draft picks (which I think is highly unlikely), this is your only hope.
ivanvamp said:
That's why the Pats need to bring their own "control ball" to every game. Make a nice media spectacle of it. Pregame pressure and temp recordings and then halftime and postgame. Maybe even get a local company to sponsor it.
Which also points to why the NFL has so handily won almost everytime there has been a threat of a work stoppage.cornwalls@6 said:
It takes a lot of character and empathy to look past your own personal wealth/career, and make sacrifices in it for something you may only have a short window to recoup your losses.
ivanvamp said:
This won't change in the next CBA because the CBA applies to the NFLPA and its members, not teams. There will never be any recourse for teams to appeal penalties.
But it isn't written that way in the new rule. It's too late to change it for this upcoming season. No non-NFL personal will have access to the footballs because the NFL never admits outsiders to anything NFL related.edmunddantes said:
The best option is if some institution like Columbia University decides on their own to run a weekly test of official Wilson NFL footballs at the Meadowlands during games. And even then it will simply be ignored by the NFL and is dependent on the public to give a damn to make any impact.
There is no recourse for Kraft now. He already gave up.
http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/deflating-a-con-man-how-not-to-be-a-sucker-on-nfl-player-rightscornwalls@6 said:
Chatham (in an article retweeted by the NFLPA prez, Winston) essentially argues that Goddel and the NFL media outlets rely on players to make comments out of context and basically take advantage of their lack of cohesion.
Pack your ski gear for hell. Slopes are open.
Stephen A. Smith laid down the sword. Agreed with Skip Bayless today and said "we don't disagree any longer."
Basically said the Peyton email tipped the scale. Proof that Brady turned over info, proof league can't be trusted to keep irrelevant things private. Agrees Brady was correct to not turn over cell phone because the league can't be trusted. Said no suspension. He should miss zero games and that this is bad for the NFL.
Stephen A. Smith laid down the sword. Agreed with Skip Bayless today and said "we don't disagree any longer."
Basically said the Peyton email tipped the scale. Proof that Brady turned over info, proof league can't be trusted to keep irrelevant things private. Agrees Brady was correct to not turn over cell phone because the league can't be trusted. Said no suspension. He should miss zero games and that this is bad for the NFL.
DrewDawg said:
ESPN will still not report anything negative about the NFL. Maybe a few talking heads might comment, but right now, on the ESPN NFL page, here is the only Patriot related headline.
I completely believe this, esp after reading the transcript of the arbitration hearing. They tried to get Brady to give them some quote they could twist admitting he wanted his footballs at 12.5 before the Jets game like 10 different ways, likely trying to tie his testimony to liking the deflated football when Gronk spikes it. They kept going and going. Fortunately, Brady kept reiterating that he only wanted 12.5 after the Jets game when he learned of the rule.Joshv02 said:
As more layers of the onion that were the circumstances leading up to and after the Indy Game in this whole mess are revealed, the Anti-Patriot bias gets more and more obvious.
It's seems clear to me that NFL folks in high places who still harbor team alliances with the Jets, Ravens and Colts tried to create parity in the league by chopping the Patriots off at the legs thru punishment/sanctions.. since AFC teams have had a hard time taking the Patriots out on the field.
Any member of the NFL FO uttering the phrase "for the integrity of the game" ever again should be shot on sight.
It's seems clear to me that NFL folks in high places who still harbor team alliances with the Jets, Ravens and Colts tried to create parity in the league by chopping the Patriots off at the legs thru punishment/sanctions.. since AFC teams have had a hard time taking the Patriots out on the field.
Any member of the NFL FO uttering the phrase "for the integrity of the game" ever again should be shot on sight.
I love how public sentiment is finally turning a bit toward the Pats and the NFL is essentially muzzled from doing what they would normally do in this circumstance -- which is leak some other half-truth or outright lie.
Words cannot express the satisfaction I am feeling that the NFL's shouting "INTEGRITY OF THE GAME" at the top of their lungs for over six months has begun to turn into a question of INTEGRITY OF THE COMMISSIONER.
Really, it surprises you that players don't want to put a target on their own backs? Even squeaky clean, media darling QBs like Manning and Rogers haven't said a word. And it really shouldn't be surprising. At all.cornwalls@6 said:
amarshal2 said:
Tons? How many voted in the poll? Maybe 10?
I love that I'm not taken seriously but you flying in the face of over 27,000 people is the beacon of serious football fandom.
tims4wins said:
Glass houses and all... I can't believe the turn in media but still entirely expect some horrific decision by the Judge just to make this an even stranger 30 for 30 on ESPN in 10 years... Every time the assumption was logic would prevail gasoline gets poured on the fire of idiocy, I just hope that doesn't persist in front of a judge as it's absolutely clear to date it's been run by a completely inept and arrogant buffoon. Here's hoping this is the end of his days as the commissioner, he better sell his New England properties as well - can't imagine he'll enjoy walking the boardwalks or beaches going forward.
Logically, the other NFL owners should be seeing the public attention the transcripts are getting, reading the resulting articles and realizing in their heart of hearts that Goodell so thoroughly screwed this up as to make his ruling a joke. The penalty should now be seen by all of them for what it is.
And let's set aside the ones with Patriots vendettas, such as the Jets, Ravens and Colts. Those guys are so compromised that they simply cannot act rationally. They are the ownership equivalents of dopes like Mike Felger, Ben Volin, Bob Kravitz and Dan Shaughnessy. But everyone else in the ownership should be beating down Roger's door and pleading with him to end the madness. Offer Tom whatever it takes to settle this damn thing.
That they are not, and that the NFL is not rushing now to settle and end the freaking madness is a discredit to all involved. A big one. History and even the present will not look kindly on them.
And my fear is that it actually goes the other way. At this point, the NFL looks like a complete clown show. I fear that their only hope and remaining move is go all in, and pray that Berman gets caught up in his deferential underwear and gives them a win in court. That wont remove the stain of the transcript and the obvious conclusion that Goodell was totally partial and chose to railroad Tom. But winning would become the headline and the story, and would obfuscate the rest, quite sadly.
That a bunch of no good misanthropes like Goodell, Vincent, Kensil, Biscotti and Irsay could be on one side, and could be inflicting severe reputational harm on a player of Tom Brady's stature and, I think*, character, is one of the more pathetic things I have seen in sports...ever. It's right up there with the Ben Dreith Game and the Olympics screw job the refs visited on the US basketball team in favor of the Russians, in terms of its sheer stupidity and insanity. You can make arguments about which is worse, but the total insanity of the circumstances here, and the unfairness of it all, is in the same general vicinity of most anything, I think. Really, a sniveling little piece of shit like Goodell having any ability to reduce Tom's standing over "general awareness" of other people MAYBE messing with ball pressure, is one for the ages.
Rant over.
* Of course, I don't know Tom and he could kill kittens for fun when the cameras are not rolling. My observation is based on 15 years of watching him carefully and concluding that he's a genuinely good guy. And, yes Simone, I know a few people who know him, including my late Aunt, who knew him and Giselle reasonably well. They all say the same kinds of things about him.
And let's set aside the ones with Patriots vendettas, such as the Jets, Ravens and Colts. Those guys are so compromised that they simply cannot act rationally. They are the ownership equivalents of dopes like Mike Felger, Ben Volin, Bob Kravitz and Dan Shaughnessy. But everyone else in the ownership should be beating down Roger's door and pleading with him to end the madness. Offer Tom whatever it takes to settle this damn thing.
That they are not, and that the NFL is not rushing now to settle and end the freaking madness is a discredit to all involved. A big one. History and even the present will not look kindly on them.
And my fear is that it actually goes the other way. At this point, the NFL looks like a complete clown show. I fear that their only hope and remaining move is go all in, and pray that Berman gets caught up in his deferential underwear and gives them a win in court. That wont remove the stain of the transcript and the obvious conclusion that Goodell was totally partial and chose to railroad Tom. But winning would become the headline and the story, and would obfuscate the rest, quite sadly.
That a bunch of no good misanthropes like Goodell, Vincent, Kensil, Biscotti and Irsay could be on one side, and could be inflicting severe reputational harm on a player of Tom Brady's stature and, I think*, character, is one of the more pathetic things I have seen in sports...ever. It's right up there with the Ben Dreith Game and the Olympics screw job the refs visited on the US basketball team in favor of the Russians, in terms of its sheer stupidity and insanity. You can make arguments about which is worse, but the total insanity of the circumstances here, and the unfairness of it all, is in the same general vicinity of most anything, I think. Really, a sniveling little piece of shit like Goodell having any ability to reduce Tom's standing over "general awareness" of other people MAYBE messing with ball pressure, is one for the ages.
Rant over.
* Of course, I don't know Tom and he could kill kittens for fun when the cameras are not rolling. My observation is based on 15 years of watching him carefully and concluding that he's a genuinely good guy. And, yes Simone, I know a few people who know him, including my late Aunt, who knew him and Giselle reasonably well. They all say the same kinds of things about him.
No he actually acknowledged these emails came from the NFLPA, (I was typing on my phone earlier) but he overlooked that and made the bigger point that the NFL can't be trusted to keep irrelevant things private and under no circumstances should Tom Brady have give his phone to the NFL for them to release potentially private things in his life that have no bearing on this case.Ed Hillel said:
It was actually a lucid, well toned, narrative. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. And for the record I didn't watch it live, my kid came and got me and made me watch on rewind.
Yeah, it actually is. Seems to me there was much more public criticism of Goodell from players for some of his heavy penalties and fines and suspensions for personal fouls, and during Bountygate, among other instances. Not sure why this case differs, other than the parties involved, i.e., a team and its best player, who have been dominating on the field for 15 years. Hence the pettiness, and short-sighted stupidity I referenced in my original post. This kind of arbitrary, draconian discipline can, and has been, used against other players besides TB. I would think that would motivate more of them to speak out. Surprised and disappointed that hasn't been the case.uncannymanny said:
GregHarris said:
Of course it's filmed at Jets camp. Just to make this thing more stupid and surreal.
Yup. I'm in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp as far as anything tangible happening that benefits the Patriots.Valek123 said:
We've learned that science debunks the idea that there was anything wrong with the balls in the first place. We've seen an investigation turn up no evidence that anything actually occurred. We've seen NFL-leaked fact after fact be proven false.
And despite all these revelations, Brady and the Patriots are still facing the same penalties they'd have been hit with had there been a high-def video of Brady deflating the balls himself.
Revis is really taking that mother dissing hard. Imagine what he would have done to Delonte.
So why were all Brady's email's released? Were they leaked or were they released as part of all the documents collected and released based on what the judge said?
They were part of the record of the arbitration hearing.
I believe the NFLPA pushed for the release of everything, indicating that they think Tom's e-mails are relatively harmless, especially compared to the hearing transcript.
I believe the NFLPA pushed for the release of everything, indicating that they think Tom's e-mails are relatively harmless, especially compared to the hearing transcript.
shoosh77 said:
The difference between Tom and Revis is that Brady is fighting the suspension because he a) wants to be on the field, and b) wants to protect his legacy. Revis would fight it for the game checks.
Indianapolis Colts @Colts 18m18 minutes agoEd Hillel said:
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in case its deleted
cornwalls@6 said:
Seems the narrative is changing from "Brady looks guilty, why did he destroy his phone?" to "Holy crap, could my employer really demand I turn over my private phone on no more than a whim and punish me if I refuse?"
Is it possible that EVEN IF the NFL wins the court case "Because the CBA allows Goodell to act in this manor" that the judge Still slams him?
Something along the (overly) simple lines of....
"While I cannot find a violation of the CBA to invalidate them, the assumptions about Mr. Brady or the Patriots alleged tampering of footballs and punishment handed down are so outlandish as to be unbelievable. With that said I must sadly rule in favor of the NFL and uphold their findings and punishment. I apologize for this railroad Job Mr Brady. Its totally undeserved."
I know judges have alot of leniency and I assume could "make a point" even if they did not believe in the actual finding.
Do judges do this?
Would it change the public perception?
Something along the (overly) simple lines of....
"While I cannot find a violation of the CBA to invalidate them, the assumptions about Mr. Brady or the Patriots alleged tampering of footballs and punishment handed down are so outlandish as to be unbelievable. With that said I must sadly rule in favor of the NFL and uphold their findings and punishment. I apologize for this railroad Job Mr Brady. Its totally undeserved."
I know judges have alot of leniency and I assume could "make a point" even if they did not believe in the actual finding.
Do judges do this?
Would it change the public perception?
PaulinMyrBch said:
You are correct. Like you, I had a very difficult time reconciling the fact that I was hearing it from SAS.
My understanding is that the Commish's powers haven't really changed under the new CBA, it's just that Goodell's interpretation and willingness to use them has expanded.Ralphwiggum said:
One of the most interesting things that happened last week was the Bills voluntarily suspending Aaron Kromer. Pre-Goodell, teams often took care of their own player discipline (they are employees of the teams, after all), but a combination of teams failing to punish players and teams not wanting to deal with discipline pushed things into the Commissioner's court. I wonder if Kromer is the start of that trend reversing. If someone on the Pats says something offensive, gets arrested for something, or does something that could be construed as cheating, would you rather the Pats just suspend him for a few games voluntarily or take a spin on Roger's wheel of justice? It might say something that Buffalo chose option A.Ralphwiggum said:
SAS has the key statement of the whole thing. This isn't about Kraft, Brady or the Patriots organization as a whole. The ex-Jets guys (Kensil, Gardi) thought they had something to bury Belichick. I guarantee they believed he was behind some kind of tampering scheme. When it turned out that it was dubious that anything even happened when the science came into play, and especially that Belichick wasn't involved, they were too far down the rabbit hole. I mean, even if there was no "DEFLATOR" text, we'd still be at the same point right now.
Sorry, I think my point stands. Players have spoken out continually throughout Goodell's tenure, during which he has been fairly heavy-handed and arbitrary in his discipline, but have been conspicuously quiet when it involves a player and team that many of them have been on the losing end to, and frankly, intensely dislike. I think it has much more to do with that level of pig-headed bitterness and really dumb short-sightedness, that it does with any real fear of the consequences speaking out would bring.The Big Red Kahuna said:
I guess to add context, and I promise not to derail thread any further after this, I can't imagine this happening with the MLBPA. Think there would be much more of a rallying cry around a player of TB's stature, who was being railroaded on such flimsy grounds. Just an observation about how weak the NFLPA has been, and their rank and file membership has failed to step up on this.