#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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DennyDoyle'sBoil

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SumnerH said:
No, it's stronger than that: if enough people fuck it up, then it's no longer a fuck up and you must "fuck it up" or you're wrong.
 
Language is meant to communicate; if the way people talk changes, the language changes.  
 
Same deal with "thou" being used for singular and "you" for plural giving way once enough people started using "you" for both.  At some point if you go around correcting people they're going to point out that nobody speaks like that anymore, and really you're the person who's out of touch with the language if you think "thou" is acceptable let alone that "you" isn't for the singular.
Woe is I, this shit is pretty complicated. It literally makes my head spin.
 

Bone Chips

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WayBackVazquez said:
Did you or anybody else other than Jim Quirk think Schefter was reporting that a game official was fired? The media use "officials" all the time to refer to higher-ranking employees, as opposed to "staff" or "employees."
Oh here we go. This is point where people come in to say how obvious it was that Schefter was referring to an NFL employee and not a zebra.

Here's a couple logical reasons why someone could infer that Schefter was referring to a game official. One - that he used the word official a whole bunch of times, in the context of story initially involving McNally trying to introduce an unauthorized ball into the game with a game official. Two - game officials are usually the only ones handling the game balls.

It was a point of clarification that certainly needed to be made.
 

simplyeric

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SumnerH said:
 
No, it's stronger than that: if enough people fuck it up, then it's no longer a fuck up and you must "fuck it up" or you're wrong.
 
Language is meant to communicate; if the way people talk changes, the language changes.  
 
Same deal with "thou" being used for singular and "you" for plural giving way once enough people started using "you" for both.  At some point if you go around correcting people they're going to point out that nobody speaks like that anymore, and really you're the person who's out of touch with the language if you think "thou" is acceptable let alone that "you" isn't for the singular.
Isn't 'whom' still used often enough that it's not so much incorrect as it is old fashioned? 'Thou' is pretty much gone, and the process is pretty similar, but 'whom' isn't dead yet...

It's certainly a dying thing, but it's more alive than, say, the integrity of the NFL front office.
 

djbayko

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Bone Chips said:
Here's a couple logical reasons why someone could infer that Schefter was referring to a game official...Two - game officials are usually the only ones handling the game balls.
 
They handle the game balls on the field of play, but that's not what we're talking about here.  The story is about an official that is trying to get a ball into the game by giving it to a team employee who apparently sometimes feeds the referees.
 

Bone Chips said:
Oh here we go. This is point where people come in to say how obvious it was that Schefter was referring to an NFL employee and not a zebra.

It was a point of clarification that certainly needed to be made.
 
WayBackVazquez is right.  Taking cues from both the context of the article and how sports journalists typically use these words, it was obviously referring to a league employee.  When reading the article and running across the word "official", my brain did ponder the 2 options for a split second.
 
It was a clarification worth noting, but it should not have been a significant revelation to most.
 

Harry Hooper

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Former NFL head linesman Balz is featured in the OTL Extra video clip expressing his past experiences with (and misgivings about) attendant McNally. Bob Ley then asks Naqi about Balz's background and experience. You can't make this stuff up: she cites 2 specific people in the NFL who sing Balz's praises -- Bill Polian and Tony Dungy.
 
In regard to Schefter's references to the maneuvers with balls done by Employee #1 and Employee #2, it would seem that #2 was at least trying to cover for #1's misdeeds and may in fact be a co-conspirator in the effort to sell diverted game balls for personal profit.
 

djbayko

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Harry Hooper said:
Former NFL head linesman Balz is featured in the OTL Extra video clip expressing his past experiences with (and misgivings about) attendant McNally. Bob Ley then asks Naqi about Balz's background and experience. You can't make this stuff up: she cites 2 specific people in the NFL who sing Balz's praises -- Bill Polian and Tony Dungy.
 
In regard to Schefter's references to the maneuvers with balls done by Employee #1 and Employee #2, it would seem that #2 was at least trying to cover for #1's misdeeds and may in fact be a co-conspirator in the effort to sell diverted game balls for personal profit.
 
This may be true, but it doesn't jive with the last part of Schefter's report, where Employee #1 re-introduced the game ball after he realized that he was found out by Employee #2.
 

Harry Hooper

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djbayko said:
 
This may be true, but it doesn't jive with the last part of Schefter's report, where Employee #1 re-introduced the game ball after he realized that he was found out by Employee #2.
 
Why would #2 add an unapproved ball back into the mix, though, unless he/she is at least trying to cover up? According to Peter King's "Game 150" story, NFL games never actually use more than 6 kicking balls, so 11 approved kicking balls would be more than enough to finish the Pats game.
 
#1 may just have been reacting to the antennae going up about the balls, and didn't even know #2 had already slipped in a replacement.
 

Reverend

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I'm having trouble grasping that this story turned out to be stupider even than I thought it would be when I left earlier.
 
The larger "state of the NFL" is out of control. It's not even clear what it is--is it NFL officials holding grudges, is it media entrepreneurs trying to score points, or what? One way or another, the Patriots apparently make people insane in a way that I would have pooh-poohed as Pats fans defensive (even if perhaps understandably so) not so long ago.
 
Are there other comparable examples of the various appendages and organs of a league--and let's not mistake what the ESPNs and such of the world are--going nuts like this against another constituent part of the apparatus (in this case, a team in the league) before?
 

djbayko

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Harry Hooper said:
 
Why would #2 add an unapproved ball back into the mix, though, unless he/she is at least trying to cover up? According to Peter King's "Game 150" story, NFL games never actually use more than 6 kicking balls, so 11 approved kicking balls would be more than enough to finish the Pats game.
 
#1 may just have been reacting to the antennae going up about the balls, and didn't even know #2 had already slipped in a replacement.
 
Okay, I see where you're coming from.  I just read it from a different angle, where Employee #2 replaced the ball for no nefarious reason.  He just noticed that a ball went missing as they might sometimes do and wanted to put a fresh one back in the rotation.  Who really knows?  I keep telling myself that I'm just going to wait for the Wells report...but I just can't do it.
 

Corsi

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Harry Hooper said:
Former NFL head linesman Balz is featured in the OTL Extra video clip expressing his past experiences with (and misgivings about) attendant McNally. Bob Ley then asks Naqi about Balz's background and experience. You can't make this stuff up: she cites 2 specific people in the NFL who sing Balz's praises -- Bill Polian and Tony Dungy.
Wait, the guy's name is Balz?

This is like a bad SNL sketch.
 

Norm loves Vera

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So it appears Jim McNalley was "Just Doing his Job" and handed off balls he was instructed to by NFL officials who were up to no good.  IMHO, it appears the reporter from OTL went with innuendo over facts as the Patriots (including McNalley) were tight lipped as was ordered by Wells and she took that as covering up or something nefarious.  The only ones whispering to her had the ax to grind.  At least her "article" was shared over 22k times and has @ 2,700 plus comments, so to ESPN, that's a win.
 
That said, she has to feel like a complete dupe today, and I hope for the "integrity of the process" she calls Wells up and says; " my leak/source was X from the NFL office and Y from the Colts."  
 
It's clear, to me at least, the Ginger Hammer has not surrounded himself with "His Guys" who are loyal to his regime and the NFL as an entity.  There are high ups using their position for their own agenda, and he needs to be cleaned out or do some major cleaning out.  How the heck can he keep the streets of Dodge City safe and secure when Deputies Festus and Chester keep slapping around Miss Kitty and her girls at the Long Branch?
 
oh and Schefter is D&C at 8:30 this morning.
 
Dennis and Callahan ‏@DandCShow 33m33 minutes ago
The man who took the air out of deflate-gate, @AdamSchefter, will join us at 8:30 this morning. Only on @weei.
 
edit:typos as I am just drinking first cup of Joe.
 

miracleofmidre

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I've had it with this story. http://t.co/3Rid8mJrMT Bill Simmons (@BillSimmons) [URL="https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/568307618348838912

https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/568307618348838912"]February

link to tweet 19, 2015[/url]

This is an official public request for Roger Goodell to come on the BS Report. Name the time and place, @nflcommish. Bill Simmons (@BillSimmons) [URL="https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/568309989061709826
https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/568309989061709826"]February

link to tweet 19, 2015[/url][/quote

For a second I thought that second tweet was an invitation for Goodell to ejaculate on the findings of the investigation.

That's where we are at...
 

pedro1918

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I believe if Simmons had meant "ejaculate" he would have used the old fashioned spelling of "cum" instead of the modern "come." Or is one of them the diminutive? I dunno.

Fuck. Let's just talk about balls.
 

Ed Hillel

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Jnai said:
Florio:
 
This guy is my favorite. He's like his own parody account.
Did you see the headline? He's making it sound like the NFL is destroying evidence.

Also, first time I've ever seen ESPN delete an entire comments section in their new story. Then everyone just started bashing them for that. Pretty funny.
 

riboflav

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Question for those who know such things. Are retractions usually issued for factually correct stories but lack certain details (i.e. more facts) that completely undermine and overhaul the implications made in the article?
 
Yes, I know ESPN would never issue a retraction and, even if it did, no one outside Patriots' fan would notice. Just curious what the practice is for more credible news organizations.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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riboflav said:
Question for those who know such things. Are retractions usually issued for factually correct stories but lack certain details (i.e. more facts) that completely undermine and overhaul the implications made in the article?
 
Yes, I know ESPN would never issue a retraction and, even if it did, no one outside Patriots' fan would notice. Just curious what the practice is for more credible news organizations.
http://espn.go.com/espn/corrections

At ESPN, our reputation and credibility with viewers, readers and listeners are of paramount concern. While our goal is always to be accurate and fair, occasionally we will present an erroneous assertion of fact. Significant errors of fact will be corrected in a clear and timely manner, with appropriate prominence.

Correctable errors involve a significant factual mistake, or materially change the implication or connotation of the reporting. This policy is not intended to cover inconsequential factual errors, such as minor statistical mistakes, inadvertent and immaterial misidentifications, minor inaccuracies in a developing story or font errors that don't impair the viewers' understanding of a story.

Each unit at ESPN -- such as Studio, Remote, Magazine, Radio, ESPN.com and other networks -- will implement this policy in a manner applicable to its medium. Corrections of significant factual errors across all media, as warranted, will be posted on ESPN.com's corrections page for a period of time.

ESPN produces 24/7 programming and services, across many platforms and under fierce deadline pressures. Mistakes are inevitable. A meaningful policy for correcting significant errors will engender trust with viewers, listeners and readers. ESPN's willingness to correct mistakes, as necessary, is directly proportional to our credibility with our audiences. ESPN will regularly review and amend the policy as warranted.
For what it's worth (not much).
 

Granite Sox

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garzooma said:
Yes, the official talking about the Patriots trying to use improperly marked balls is named Mark Baltz.
 
Encounters With the Famous(?):
 
I sat next to Balz on a flight from LaGuardia to Indianapolis several years ago.  He was coming home from doing a game in Buffalo.  He had separated his shoulder during the game in a sideline collision and was actually in quite a bit of pain.  I had the aisle, he had the window.  When I noticed him grimacing as I sat down in my seat, I asked him what was wrong (I don't talk to people on airplanes generally, but wanted to make sure I hadn't done something to inflict any pain.)  That's when he told me he was an NFL on-field official.
 
He's quite a chatty feller... he had A LOT of opinions, and I thought he was a bit of a blowhard.  To see him associated with Polian makes a ton of sense now.  He went on and on about how much all the refs hated the (then) recently-appointed director of officials, Jerry Seeman.
 
I remember thinking about how badly this guy was shit-talking his own boss... didn't reflect well on him, and I concluded that he had a lot of great stories to tell, but was basically full of crap in terms of offering an objective assessment on anything.
 
So ESPN found a real prince here...
 

DJnVa

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Schefter asked if someone used Naqi to advance an anti-Patriots agenda.
 
His response: "Well, I don't know...."
 
 
He does not know why league had this guy working, but thinks they weren't 100% sure and this game was final straw.
 

DJnVa

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Schefter: "The teams that hate the Patriots, REALLY hate them."
 
Ascribed much of it to jealousy.
 
Asked about Kensil, he said he thinks there are folks that think they can prove that he has it in for BB.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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There is no Rev said:
I'm having trouble grasping that this story turned out to be stupider even than I thought it would be when I left earlier.
 
The larger "state of the NFL" is out of control. It's not even clear what it is--is it NFL officials holding grudges, is it media entrepreneurs trying to score points, or what? One way or another, the Patriots apparently make people insane in a way that I would have pooh-poohed as Pats fans defensive (even if perhaps understandably so) not so long ago.
 
Are there other comparable examples of the various appendages and organs of a league--and let's not mistake what the ESPNs and such of the world are--going nuts like this against another constituent part of the apparatus (in this case, a team in the league) before?
The sustained excellence mystifies everybody.  Most folks don't have the cognitive wherewithal or patience to look closer and understand that fifteen years of winning comes from attention to detail like running extra tryouts to pick up UDFAs who eventually make game-saving catches, or that those catches come about because they watch so much film they know what to practice and how to execute.
 
Since as a society we've (mostly) moved beyond accusing people of being witches, "cheating" is the next most convenient explanation. Spygate basically set up the biggest confirmatory bias in the history of the league, and everything gets processed through that lens.  The pile-on is just everybody wanting to be the first person to find the witc--er, cheater--that they can burn at the stake, because they're already convinced of his guilt.
 
M

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DrewDawg said:
Asked about Kensil, he said he thinks there are folks that think they can prove that he has it in for BB.
 
Guess his new nickname is "Simone".
 

LuckyBen

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DrewDawg said:
Schefter: "The teams that hate the Patriots, REALLY hate them."
 
Ascribed much of it to jealousy.
 
Asked about Kensil, he said he thinks there are folks that think they can prove that he has it in for BB.
I really hope this means video or audio tapes. Kensil getting fired will be the cherry on top of all of this.
 

dcmissle

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Schefter: "The teams that hate the Patriots, REALLY hate them."
 
Ascribed much of it to jealousy.
 
Asked about Kensil, he said he thinks there are folks that think they can prove that he has it in for BB.
Yes. As noted, it has been a war on sustained excellence all along, made more bitter and desperate by insecurity.

There are a lot of people in the League at executive and coaching positions making millions a year. Hell, $5 MM a year for a HC spot for someone with experience may be the going rate.

The Patriots' run puts those in jeopardy because owners' knee-jerk response, even if unreasonable, is, "why can't YOU do that ..."

The answer is you have to be superior and fortunate when the League is structured right now, and has been for years, to thwart sustaining excellence. but owners are known for neither patience nor football IQ.

Francesa and Co. can go crap in a hat. Everything that has been done in NE at the executive and coaching levels dwarfs what can before it. This makes so many people with their different agendas so angry.
 

loshjott

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P'tucket said:
Eight K balls, and NFL official swipes the one that AV wants in play when he's kicking.  Certainly consistent with the rest of the Tales of Ineptitude this has become.
 
Mess with Vinatieri's balls at your own peril.
 
That 2nd quarter extra point was his only time on the field all game...he doesn't do kickoffs, right?
 

JimD

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Dick Pole Upside said:
 
Encounters With the Famous(?):
 
I sat next to Balz on a flight from LaGuardia to Indianapolis several years ago.  He was coming home from doing a game in Buffalo.  He had separated his shoulder during the game in a sideline collision and was actually in quite a bit of pain.  I had the aisle, he had the window.  When I noticed him grimacing as I sat down in my seat, I asked him what was wrong (I don't talk to people on airplanes generally, but wanted to make sure I hadn't done something to inflict any pain.)  That's when he told me he was an NFL on-field official.
 
He's quite a chatty feller... he had A LOT of opinions, and I thought he was a bit of a blowhard.  To see him associated with Polian makes a ton of sense now.  He went on and on about how much all the refs hated the (then) recently-appointed director of officials, Jerry Seeman.
 
I remember thinking about how badly this guy was shit-talking his own boss... didn't reflect well on him, and I concluded that he had a lot of great stories to tell, but was basically full of crap in terms of offering an objective assessment on anything.
 
So ESPN found a real prince here...
 
This is entirely consistent with the never-ending series of leaks on league matters.  What a clown show NFL HQ has become.  Someone needs to edit the Wiki page for 345 Park Avenue and rename the building the 'Roger S. Goodell Academy for Gifted Bureaucrats' or something - it's worse than high school.
 

8slim

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How does this "starting" with Viniatieri noticing a K-ball missing square with the reports that the Colts had made this an area of concern in their pre-game report? Or do we think that's horse crap?
 
This really has taken a bizarre turn, and that's saying something.  
 

HowBoutDemSox

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8slim said:
How does this "starting" with Viniatieri noticing a K-ball missing square with the reports that the Colts had made this an area of concern in their pre-game report? Or do we think that's horse crap?
 
This really has taken a bizarre turn, and that's saying something.  
And how does the report that it started with Vinatieri square with the report by Naqi that it started when Greg Yette thought McNally's actions were odd? And if that's bunk, then what do we make of Naqi's claim that Kensil was motivated to get involved by Yette's notification?
 

IdiotKicker

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The only thing that would make this better is Terrell Suggs being spotted on the Colts sideline with a nail gun. Other than that I'm about as happy as I could be with the situation.
 

theapportioner

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After the Wells report exonerates him, McNally should sue ESPN for defamation. Probably won't win if it goes to trial, but ESPN will probably settle.
 

Stevie1der

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I'm still cautious about the ultimate conclusions and skeptical with regard to whether the Patriots will escape punishment, warranted or not, but given these last 24 hours I am really close to asking for a spiral bound copy of the Wells Report for my birthday.  It will go really well in my Four Games to Glory display.
 

bankshot1

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If I read the story correctly, McNally declined to comment when contacted, saying he could not talk about the investigation. But I'd like to see ESPN now go after Kensil (who it seems like was one of the sources on the McNally story) who probably knew about the ball-stealing aspect, but for some reason neglected to inform the author of that little fact.
 

DJnVa

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P'tucket said:
Eight K balls, and NFL official swipes the one that AV wants in play when he's kicking.  Certainly consistent with the rest of the Tales of Ineptitude this has become.
 
Mess with Vinatieri's balls at your own peril.
 
 
Apparently, if I understand this, they balls are numbered. They should have been kicking ball #1 and they weren't.
 
 
 
So was this a K ball taken from the colts sideline that needed to be replaced? 
 
          
I don't think the k balls are on each sideline. An NFL official has all of them.
 

dcmissle

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If I read the story correctly, McNally declined to comment when contacted, saying he could not talk about the investigation. But I'd like to see ESPN now go after Kensil (who it seems like was one of the sources on the McNally story) who probably knew about the ball-stealing aspect, but for some reason neglected to inform the author of that little fact.
The only guy who may get us there is Schefter.

The NFLN is totally useless in matters like these. At ESPN, the only guys with the chops to fight the preferred narrative are Schefter and Mort, as demonstrated in the Ray Rice matter. Sadly, Mort was played in this one, and has chosen to remain silent.

(NBC, and by extension Florio, are worse than the NFLN, which at least remains silent. As demonstrated by the broadcasting team, it is totally in the tank for the League).
 

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Hoya81 said:
So was this a K ball taken from the colts sideline that needed to be replaced?
If I understand it:  there's a communal bin of K balls shared by both teams, neither team has it's own supply of K balls.
 
The way Schefter made it sound on D&C (guessing it'll be UL'd soon):  second time on the field, Vinatieri noticed he was given "K-2" ball, and asked what happened to "K-1".  That's what got K-gate rolling.
 
WEEI link:
 
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/02/19/adam-schefter-on-dc-talking-recent-afc-championship-game-developments-indisputable-that-the-nfl-screwed-this-up/
 

Jed Zeppelin

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P'tucket said:
The sustained excellence mystifies everybody.  Most folks don't have the cognitive wherewithal or patience to look closer and understand that fifteen years of winning comes from attention to detail like running extra tryouts to pick up UDFAs who eventually make game-saving catches, or that those catches come about because they watch so much film they know what to practice and how to execute.
 
Since as a society we've (mostly) moved beyond accusing people of being witches, "cheating" is the next most convenient explanation. Spygate basically set up the biggest confirmatory bias in the history of the league, and everything gets processed through that lens.  The pile-on is just everybody wanting to be the first person to find the witc--er, cheater--that they can burn at the stake, because they're already convinced of his guilt.
 
I guess the lack of understanding is also why the immediate response to so many of BB's moves is hair pulling, teeth gnashing, and rending of the garments. Every trade of a veteran, every jump around the draft board. Just for fun, I looked at the chain of events started by the Seymour trade. The Raiders ended up better than expected, but that #17 pick landed Nate Solder and perhaps made the #28 more tradeable. It was sent to NO for #56 (Shane Vereen) and a 2012 1st, which became part of the draft ammo used to move up to land Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower.
 
As dcmissle said, impatience also has plenty to do with it. We feel impatient because we want to win every year, and most coaches and GMs around the league are impatient because they are on a perpetual hot seat.
 
8slim said:
How does this "starting" with Viniatieri noticing a K-ball missing square with the reports that the Colts had made this an area of concern in their pre-game report? Or do we think that's horse crap?
 
This really has taken a bizarre turn, and that's saying something.  
 
I believe the "starting" only refers to the league employee's hidden ball trick, not Ballghazi in general. I wouldn't lend credence to pretty much any theory about how this started. We've already cycled through at least 3 or 4 different whistleblowers.
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

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dcmissle said:
Yes. As noted, it has been a war on sustained excellence all along, made more bitter and desperate by insecurity.

There are a lot of people in the League at executive and coaching positions making millions a year. Hell, $5 MM a year for a HC spot for someone with experience may be the going rate.

The Patriots' run puts those in jeopardy because owners' knee-jerk response, even if unreasonable, is, "why can't YOU do that ..."

The answer is you have to be superior and fortunate when the League is structured right now, and has been for years, to thwart sustaining excellence. but owners are known for neither patience nor football IQ.

Francesa and Co. can go crap in a hat. Everything that has been done in NE at the executive and coaching levels dwarfs what can before it. This makes so many people with their different agendas so angry.
 
Reminds me a lot of the consternation generated - and case studies that get written - when companies in the business world create a sustainable competitive advantage (for some reason other than economies of scale or a market failure).  Disney in entertainment.  Apple in electronics.  Wal-Mart in retail.  FedEx in shipping.  Berkshire Hathaway.  Coca-Cola. 
 
Executives and business-school academics tie themselves in knots trying to understand what the differences are, the lessons, that can let them emulate that same success.  In many cases, it comes down to the recruiting of talent and the culture established and followed by those at the top.  From what we've learned of Kraft and Belichick, the same may be true with the Patriots as well.