#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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ObstructedView

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twibnotes said:
Brady does have friends in the league - does anyone, say Peyton Manning, speak up at any point to vouch for the guy's integrity?
Even before this debacle, I was amazed and puzzled by the apparent resentment toward TB around the league and (less surprisingly) non-Pats fans and many in the media. What has he ever done to deserve this, beyond being really good for a long time and also being good-looking? I think the "Glamour-Boy" reference in the NY headline above gets to a lot of it; this perception that he's a pretty-boy who thinks he should get special treatment. In other words, a lot of sour grapes.
 

Ed Hillel

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If this ends with no punishment and a Patriots Superbowl, the outrage would be so incredibly delicious.
 

Morning Woodhead

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I'm still nervous that the Patriots innocence rests in the hands of an NFL investigation.  They have screwed up just about every investigation under the ginger hammer.  It's been over 4 days since this story broke, and we haven't heard 1 official statement from the NFL beyond "we're investigating".  Incompetence isn't a strong enough word for these morons. 
 

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RetractableRoof said:
Montana and Marino put their names to a "it wouldn't make a difference - I couldn't tell the difference in those PSI changes" statement. Hall of fame testimony is as good as it is going to get.

We also don't know if Manning said something to the league behind closed doors.
 
I wish we could at least get a definitive answer to how much a deflated ball would actually help.  Specifically a ball deflated to a point that is not noticeable to the multiple people handling the ball.  We have those two and ESPN sports science telling us it wouldn't make a difference. We have Troy Aikman and Brunell telling us that it was such an advantage that the Patriots actually got a free win in the AFC championship game.  
 
I know the critics would immediately spin this as it doesn't matter and this is about integrity of the game and a supposed pattern of behavior from the Pats.  But it would be a small mercy to everyone if there could just be consensus about the actual effects.
 

Granite Sox

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CantKeepmedown said:
Donovan McNabb saying Brady's presser felt "scripted". Seriously, can these networks find any players that haven't been beaten by the Pats at some point. 
 
In a word, No.
 
The Patriots have beaten EVERYONE.
 
(Obviously) Eagles, Panthers, Rams in the Super Bowl, and Raiders, Colts, Steelers, Chargers, and Ravens in the AFCCG.  If you look around the networks, they are polluted with the progeny of these teams.
 
Last night on NFLN, Heath Evans and Willie McGinest were analysts.  The show host asked them for their perspectives on the press conferences.  Evans was very blunt.  He said (paraphrasing), "Look Willie and I are both ex-Patriots.  Brunell and Bettis played for teams that we beat to get to the Super Bowl.  We both believe Bill and Tom, they don't."
 

RedOctober3829

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moondog80 said:
 Spent a season as a backup QB ten years ago.  So no more reason to think he would know anything than any of the other clowns weighing in with definitive conclusions.
Considering that Brady has had the same standard for his footballs his entire career, then yes Miller would have more insight. The backup QB knows exactly what goes on.
 

loshjott

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Some QBs could harbor animosity toward Brady for his team friendly contracts. You can almost hear other GMs citing Brady in their contract negotiations.

Brady will come out of this knowing who his real friends are.
 

Koufax

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Not sure if it has been mentioned, but at about midnight last night  the ESPN map showing states believing/not believing BB/TB showed up with only the New England states believing. 
 

jcaz

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NBC news: "Patriots coach, wicked genius Bill Belichick" and "Golden boy quarterback, Tom Brady"  What we really need is another Michael Douglas voice over about integrity in journalism.
 

kartvelo

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Ed Hillel said:
If this ends with no punishment and a Patriots Superbowl, the outrage would be so incredibly delicious.
On the other hand, a SB loss, with or without punishment, will forever cement the "Can't win without cheating!111lll!!" sentiment.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
 
I wish we could at least get a definitive answer to how much a deflated ball would actually help.  Specifically a ball deflated to a point that is not noticeable to the multiple people handling the ball.  We have those two and ESPN sports science telling us it wouldn't make a difference. We have Troy Aikman and Brunell telling us that it was such an advantage that the Patriots actually got a free win in the AFC championship game. 
 
Hmmm...who to trust? The two hall of fame QBs with nothing at stake in this, or two former QBs working in media, one of which is so irrelevant (prior to the last 24 hours) that most folks weren't even aware he was in the media, let alone at ESPN (or at least, I didn't know that)?
 

Ed Hillel

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kartvelo said:
On the other hand, a SB loss, with or without punishment, will forever cement the "Can't win without cheating!111lll!!" sentiment.
That would be the case regardless of this whole thing. If the Pats win, people will just say cheated againz!!! But I could give a shit.
 

twibnotes

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RetractableRoof said:
Montana and Marino put their names to a "it wouldn't make a difference - I couldn't tell the difference in those PSI changes" statement. Hall of fame testimony is as good as it is going to get.

We also don't know if Manning said something to the league behind closed doors.
The kind of testimony that would be nice at this point would be along the lines of, "I know tom Brady. The man is not a liar and doesn't need to pull shenanigans to win games."

I think a decent amount of sane people know the actual affect of 2 less psi is negligible (in spite of the morons like Borges)
 

tims4wins

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My dad brought this up to me last night: is there a chance that the "punishment" the NFL is giving the Pats simply letting this linger for a week or so before the Super Bowl? In other words, they have no proof of wrongdoing, can't / won't hand out a big fine or suspension or loss of draft pick, so instead they are forcing the Pats to deal with the media backlash for a week as a little reminder that they brought this on themselves and should have been more careful.
 
Is that crazy?
 

RetractableRoof

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moondog80 said:
 Spent a season as a backup QB ten years ago.  So no more reason to think he would know anything than any of the other clowns weighing in with definitive conclusions.
Actually there is a reason. He would have witnessed and or Toms pregame rituals/routines first hand and be able to say "Tom picks the 24 balls by grip, tackiness etc. - hands them to the eqipment manager and never sees them again until sideline warmups prior to the game"... or some such statement. Brunell is calling Brady a liar without ever having watched Brady in person go through his routine. I'll take a backup QB perspective over someone who's never been in the Pats locker room.

Now if you say he is biased then so be it. But he has had his eyes and ears in the room so to speak and if truthful is more pertinent than Brunell.
 

lexrageorge

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twibnotes said:
Brady does have friends in the league - does anyone, say Peyton Manning, speak up at any point to vouch for the guy's integrity?
Current players are probably thinking it's best to keep quiet, and I agree that is a prudent course.  This it the same league that fined Terrell Owens for using the football as a video camera after he scored a TD right after the Spygate story broke.   The NFL can probably come up with some reason for fining players that say too much about an ongoing investigation; if I'm Manning's or Rodger's agent, I know I'd be telling them to keep quiet.  
 
The tweets from the Colts players seem to indicate that most players think it's all overblown.  
 
I think Brady is respected by opposing players (based on past comments).  Sure, there's some trash talking that goes on, but that all seems fairly standard.  But like most players he probably has a circle of close friends, but generally keeps a professional relationship with most of his co-workers.  
 
The media is lazy and is just looking for an easy target.  
 

twibnotes

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tims4wins said:
My dad brought this up to me last night: is there a chance that the "punishment" the NFL is giving the Pats simply letting this linger for a week or so before the Super Bowl? In other words, they have no proof of wrongdoing, can't / won't hand out a big fine or suspension or loss of draft pick, so instead they are forcing the Pats to deal with the media backlash for a week as a little reminder that they brought this on themselves and should have been more careful.
 
Is that crazy?
That would imply some about of thought and planning. So yes, it's crazy
 

moondog80

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RetractableRoof said:
Actually there is a reason. He would have witnessed and or Toms pregame rituals/routines first hand and be able to say "Tom picks the 24 balls by grip, tackiness etc. - hands them to the eqipment manager and never sees them again until sideline warmups prior to the game"... or some such statement. Brunell is calling Brady a liar without ever having watched Brady in person go through his routine. I'll take a backup QB perspective over someone who's never been in the Pats locker room.

Now if you say he is biased then so be it. But he has had his eyes and ears in the room so to speak and if truthful is more pertinent than Brunell.
  That's reasonable, but maybe Brady only likes to do this in rainy conditions, and Miller never witnessed that?  Or it's a taste he developed within the past ten years, as he's gotten older?
 

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
Hmmm...who to trust? The two hall of fame QBs with nothing at stake in this, or two former QBs working in media, one of which is so irrelevant (prior to the last 24 hours) that most folks weren't even aware he was in the media, let alone at ESPN (or at least, I didn't know that)?
 
Oh I know who to trust and who are clearly the imbeciles here.  I should have been more clear....
 
It would be a small mercy if that fact that a ball deflated to the point that it is not noticeable when picking up and holding the football is a completely insignificant thing becomes an accepted and acknowledged part of the story.  Similar to the way that Mort's 2lbs of PSI report has become gospel. 
 

mostman

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I can't wait until Fox rolls out it's new real-time, on-screen PSI graphic next year. It'll float over the ball the whole game.
 

twibnotes

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P'tucket said:
If you think Peyton Manning is going to threaten the marketability of his Brand by chiming in on this, I've got a herd of unicorns you might be interested in purchasing.
Unicorns, you say? I'm listening
 

Ed Hillel

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If you think Peyton Manning is going to threaten the marketability of his Brand by chiming in on this, I've got a herd of unicorns you might be interested in purchasing.[/quote

I think he's more interted in Brady's legacy being questioned, since we all know that debate has ended otherwise.
 

Bob420

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jablo1312 said:
 
We do? How? Who reported it? Is there a log of the pregame PSI to the decimal place? Was anyone on the Pats and/or Colts in the room when the balls were tested?
Both Brady and BB said they pump them to 12.5. They wouldn't lie would they?
 

PeaceSignMoose

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I'm watching Sportsnet Central on CSNNE right now, and you know, I think Jackie MacMullan has completely lost it as a sports reporter.  Her reasoning for why she thinks the Patriots are guilty is because Chris Mortensen is always right.
 
The stupidity is astounding.
 

Koufax

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Well that HS video changes everything.  It brings the whole theory that the weather was the cause of the pressure change back into play.
 

RetractableRoof

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moondog80 said:
  That's reasonable, but maybe Brady only likes to do this in rainy conditions, and Miller never witnessed that?  Or it's a taste he developed within the past ten years, as he's gotten older?
So now you are saying Brunell knows Bradys (hypothetical) specific "rain/cold only" routine well enough from a distance to call him a liar. But because Brady may have evolved it a bit in 10 years Miller has no possible insight. Um, I'm going with "Miller and credibilty" for $200 Alex instead of "broke ex-QBs desperate for a media job and willing to say anything".
 

semsox

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notfar said:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=619508834842607
 
video of a high school kid testing the lower temperature -> lower pressure theory
 
Phsyics confirmed! That said, this illustrates the absurdity of a 1 psi range of acceptable pressure. You'd think when temperature alone is more than enough to fully swing from out of the range on one end to out of the range on the other end, then maybe it's time to look at the spec itself and whether it's reasonable...
 

moondog80

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RetractableRoof said:
So now you are saying Brunell knows Bradys (hypothetical) specific "rain/cold only" routine well enough from a distance to call him a liar. But because Brady may have evolved it a bit in 10 years Miller has no possible insight. Um, I'm going with "Miller and credibilty" for $200 Alex instead of "broke ex-QBs desperate for a media job and willing to say anything".
 
Of course Brunell doesn't know.  I'm not swayed much by either of them.  Maybe a bit by Miller, but even he doesn't move the needle that much.
 

kartvelo

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Bob420 said:
Both Brady and BB said they pump them to 12.5. They wouldn't lie would they?
Neither one of those guys sticks a gauge in the balls to check the pressure.
All we know is that TB stated that he asks for the balls to be inflated to 12.5 psi because that's "perfect" for him. He probably has no idea what the actual psi is, and never has.
 

Bob420

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Koufax said:
Well that HS video changes everything.  It brings the whole theory that the weather was the cause of the pressure change back into play.
It could but then the Colt post game footballs would need to register about the same amount above their halftime measurements.
 

baghdadjamie

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Listening to Ross Tucker on NFL Opening Drive this morning. He, along with a shit ton of other people think BB/Brady knew what was going on or have something to do with it. He also states that the Refs took the 24 balls Brady wanted to use, checked them all and locked them up until 10-15 minutes before game time. He's saying that someone from the Pats organization must have broke into the refs locker room while they were out and deflated the balls.
 
Now thats a theory!
 
here's mine.
 
The refs did not actually weigh and gauge the balls prior to the game. They may have looked and touched them but never gauged them. This whole shit storm hit, they were asked and because of all the negative press lately and fear of losing their jobs, they said they checked them properly. I got it, the Pats and spygate, why should anyone believe them. It was 7 years ago, that's why. Why is it so hard to not believe Brady when he says he had nothing to do with it but so hard to believe the refs may have had screwed up and not check the propper way?
 
Another thing. Jackson stated that he saw the Pats using Colt footballs in the first half. The refs didn't get word to check the Pats footballs until halftime correct? So why use Indy's footballs? If Indy complained, like the reports are saying, back in November why has the league not checked into this matter before now? Why are there reports that Baltimore tipped off indy AFTER the divsional round if Indy already knew about it 2 months prior? The reports out there are as bad as my grammar and spelling!
 

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Immersing the football in water is not the same as duplicating the conditions on the field. The ball would cool so much more quickly (think hypothermia in the water v. on land) that the experiment is fundamentally flawed. It does demonstrate however how psi can change quickly with environmental conditions. Still a cool vid…I'm not sure it's the definitive experiment. 
 

djbayko

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Koufax said:
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but at about midnight last night  the ESPN map showing states believing/not believing BB/TB showed up with only the New England states believing. 
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=4152896&id=12213920&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F%22%7D

"However, this poll was placed primarily on ESPNBoston.com, meaning only a few cynics from Nebraska could overcome the wave of support from the Patriots' national following.

When the poll went wide, though? Things changed everywhere ... except [New England]."

I mean, why have this type of poll if you're going to geographically limit the respondent pool?
 

JimBoSox9

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Discussing SportsNations polls like the results are anything but a meaningless pile of hot garbage numbers is unquestionably the nadir of this thread.  
 

Hoya81

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PeaceSignMoose said:
I'm watching Sportsnet Central on CSNNE right now, and you know, I think Jackie MacMullan has completely lost it as a sports reporter.  Her reasoning for why she thinks the Patriots are guilty is because Chris Mortensen is always right.
 
The stupidity is astounding.
Several NFL reporters were burned by league sources during the Rice investigation, so it's there's some precedence for them being wrong.
 

tims4wins

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I wonder if the voting distribution would change at this point on the are the Pats guilty poll question. Right now it is about a 2.5:1 ratio of guilty : not guilty. I voted not guilty to begin with but feel even more strongly about it now.
 

djbayko

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RetractableRoof said:
Actually there is a reason. He would have witnessed and or Toms pregame rituals/routines first hand and be able to say "Tom picks the 24 balls by grip, tackiness etc. - hands them to the eqipment manager and never sees them again until sideline warmups prior to the game"... or some such statement.
No, he wouldn't be able to say that because he was a backup to Brady in 2004, two years before the rule change.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/sports/football/03football.html?fta=y

Not saying his word isn't worth anything, but for that reason it isn't.
 

notfar

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Since the balls are supposed to drop in pressure when it is colder out, and the Colts balls reportedly stayed the same, then the only explanation is the Colts were cheating and warming up the balls on the sidelines.
 

Ed Hillel

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I think what Miller is saying is that Tom Brady is awesome and Mark Brunell is a giant douchenozzle. That's how I took it.
 

doc

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semsox said:
 
Phsyics confirmed! That said, this illustrates the absurdity of a 1 psi range of acceptable pressure. You'd think when temperature alone is more than enough to fully swing from out of the range on one end to out of the range on the other end, then maybe it's time to look at the spec itself and whether it's reasonable...
That's the absurdity of the rule, if the NFL mandates a pre game 12.5 to 13.5 psi  tested inside and doesn't allow for heating, cooling or re inflating the balls in a game that is played in conditions that range from humid 90F to below zero then they can not expect the game to be played with the ball at the pre game specs, it's not physically possible,