Devers called up to Majors

[curly2]

I was in the upper deck on the third-base side last night, and got a great like at Aaron Hicks going back on it. I think he thought he was going to run it down, the way he did on a ball Betts hit earlier in the game. Hick doesn't seem like a showboat or fake-hustle guy to me, and he started to climb the fence on a ball that cleared it by 25 feet. I think he couldn't believe how hard it was hit and how it kept carrying.

And the ball in the 10th was the same way. Gardner was running after it like it was going to tail toward the left-field line, like a ball hit by a normal lefty hitter would. The ball was hit so hard that it held its line instead of fading, and because Gardner almost overran it because of that.

And they both sounded amazing off the bat. Ted Williams used to say the ball sounded different off the bat for two guys: Jimmie Foxx and Mickey Mantle.

 

[uncannymanny]

A couple of neat quotes from redsox.com:

Devers

"I was thinking hit the ball up the middle, but you can't plan a home run," said Devers, who joined Luke Scott (2011) as the only lefties to homer off Chapman. "Obviously he's an All-Star, but I didn't know the stat. I just go about every at-bat the same."

Sale

"I literally jumped up when he hit it. I was in the trainer's room doing some work and, I mean, you can't help but smile. Talk about a moment in a game, for a guy like him, a young guy, a rookie, it's huge, and that's why you love him. That's why he's here, and those are the things we've almost come to expect out of him."

Love affair with both of these guys at a fever pitch.

 

[Lowrielicious]

Fangraphs has a nice analysis of how he adjusted his front foot as he figured out how to speed up to a 102mph delivery.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-watch-rafael-devers-take-aroldis-chapman-deep/

My favourite part about Rajai Davis HR against Chapman last November:
"When Davis took his hopeful swing, Rafael Devers was, I don’t know, somewhere. Probably, he was watching. But no matter what he was doing, he was doing it having recently turned 20 years old. He was a good baseball prospect, but he was one who hadn’t yet encountered Double-A competition. I’m not sure how close Devers felt like he was."

Amazing to think that at the time Devers had just put up .778 OPS, 11HR in 128 games in f-ing A ball. 9(!) months later and here we are.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

A couple of neat quotes from redsox.com:

Devers

That made Devers the first non-bigot to hit a home run off Chapman.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

This is ridiculous.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Honest take. I was on twitter and watching game. Was maybe 30 seconds behind. Saw a tweet that said "he did it again". Look up, see the pulled HR swing and thought "must be on the next pitch'. A few seconds later it was in bullpen. I have no idea how he did that. Ridiculous is a perfect description.

 

[OCST]

My favorite Yankee fan tried to tell me today that since Chapman just throws straight gas, that all Devers had to do was sit on the fastball and stick his bat on it to poke it the other way, and the speed of the pitch would just carry the ball over the fence, so that's what he did, and no big deal really.

I didn't have the numbers in front of me when we were talking, so I'll have to tell him tomorrow that yes, Devers must have done just that easy thing, just like the one other lefty who homered off Chapman in the last eight years.

This kid is impressive. I don't want to overreach (partially out of irrational fears of a jinx - as if my message board vomit influences anything) but he has both the swing and the temperament to succeed and he's just fun to watch.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Don't forget to throw in the bit about it being the hardest pitch thrown that has ever been hit for a HR since they started tracking that (2008). Being only the 2nd lefty is impressive enough. Doing it on a fastball that hard that high up in the zone is what takes it into preposterous territory.

Simply connecting with 102+ mph heat is not sufficient for going yard. Never mind going yard to the deepest part of the park.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

As generally pessimistic as I tend to be, I probably have to go as far back as Nomar to remember myself being this genuinely excited about one of our own young guys hitting the scene.

That power is going to make for a very memorable 6 years.

Mookie is the only player who was more exciting in Portland. Devers never had the same feeling that you couldn't get him out, and Mookie had the speed, too.

But you're right about the power. Devers will hit some home runs by mistake.

 

[streeter88]

In somebody else's house, 46,000 fanatics screaming for your head, the guy just struck your teammate out on three pitches, and you have two strikes on you.

No pressure.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Mookie is the only player who was more exciting in Portland. Devers never had the same feeling that you couldn't get him out, and Mookie had the speed, too.

But you're right about the power. Devers will hit some home runs by mistake.

Maybe. Moncada was really exciting too but it was also easy to tell he was the least polished of the 3. Not to mention Ben10 or Xander. Portland's been spoiled. It also took people a while to believe in the Mookie hype. In Greenville/Salem, the HRs were flukes. In Portland, people were hoping he'd become Tony Phillips.

 

[Detts]

I made the same mistake on Mookie in Greenville that scouts made: He's too small to stick.

 

[nvalvo]

Maybe. Moncada was really exciting too but it was also easy to tell he was the least polished of the 3. Not to mention Ben10 or Xander. Portland's been spoiled.

I don't mean to single you out, but the whole board seems to be weirdly down on Moncada, who seems to have settled in and now has his OPS over .700 from a low base. You know what, gang? I think he's going to be a good player.

We traded him and we got tremendous value back: we got a player in his prime who is currently leading both leagues in WAR, and doing it on an affordable contract. Amazing deal: expensive, certainly, but unquestionably worth doing, and a big part of why we're in the position we're in now, maintaining our bizarre square wave trajectory through the AL East standings.

At this point, Moncada's out of the division, and we should be rooting for him. It's good for us if he's successful for the White Sox, good for the brand. We want GMs and talent evaluators looking around at the various Margots and Moncadas, Reddicks and Rizzos, Mosses and Mastersons, and thinking how Red Sox prospects pan out at a healthy clip. We don't want them reading Lars Anderson's excellent Fangraphs posts about playing in the Japanese industrial leagues and thinking about how our system is all hype, and they should probably accept the prospect package from the Mariners or whomever instead.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I don't mean to single you out, but the whole board seems to be weirdly down on Moncada, who seems to have settled in and now has his OPS over .700 from a low base. You know what, gang? I think he's going to be a good player.

We traded him and we got tremendous value back: we got a player in his prime who is currently leading both leagues in WAR, and doing it on an affordable contract. Amazing deal: expensive, certainly, but unquestionably worth doing, and a big part of why we're in the position we're in now, maintaining our bizarre square wave trajectory through the AL East standings.

At this point, Moncada's out of the division, and we should be rooting for him. It's good for us if he's successful for the White Sox, good for the brand. We want GMs and talent evaluators looking around at the various Margots and Moncadas, Reddicks and Rizzos, Mosses and Mastersons, and thinking how Red Sox prospects pan out at a healthy clip. We don't want them reading Lars Anderson's excellent Fangraphs posts about playing in the Japanese industrial leagues and thinking about how our system is all hype, and they should probably accept the prospect package from the Mariners or whomever instead.

I think Moncada's going to be good too. I just see him struggling like JBJ or Xander for awhile before he finds his grove. Guys with lower k% like Betts, Ben10 and to a lesser extent, Margot, tend to adjust better to the bigs. Granted Moncada may put up a .220/.360/.400 line while adjusting, which isn't bad. He K's a lot, but he walks an insane amount too. He's hit .314/.442/.457 in August. 43 PA, 8bb/15k in that time though. He could end up hitting like Joey Gallo, which would be great but is probably infuriating to watch. Him and Gallo put Rob Deer to shame.

 

[Al Zarilla]

I was in the upper deck on the third-base side last night, and got a great like at Aaron Hicks going back on it. I think he thought he was going to run it down, the way he did on a ball Betts hit earlier in the game. Hick doesn't seem like a showboat or fake-hustle guy to me, and he started to climb the fence on a ball that cleared it by 25 feet. I think he couldn't believe how hard it was hit and how it kept carrying.

And the ball in the 10th was the same way. Gardner was running after it like it was going to tail toward the left-field line, like a ball hit by a normal lefty hitter would. The ball was hit so hard that it held its line instead of fading, and because Gardner almost overran it because of that.

And they both sounded amazing off the bat. Ted Williams used to say the ball sounded different off the bat for two guys: Jimmie Foxx and Mickey Mantle.

Sounded like rifle shots, he said about balls hit by Foxx. He said even if you had no view of the field, like he was in the back of the dugout during BP, you could tell it was Foxx hitting. That's exciting about balls Devers hits sounding amazing.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I don't mean to single you out, but the whole board seems to be weirdly down on Moncada, who seems to have settled in and now has his OPS over .700 from a low base. You know what, gang? I think he's going to be a good player.

Yep. There's still a pretty good chance he is a better player than Devers overall. In fact, I'd put money on that outcome over the reverse. Yes, Devers appears to have all the tools you want to see if you are betting on who will be the better hitter, but Moncada has the higher ceiling everywhere else and his ceiling as a hitter isn't much lower than Devers'.

And I agree about rooting for him. Trades working out for both teams is a good thing. You don't want to be the team no one will trade with because you always fleece the other GM.

 

[chrisfont9]

And I agree about rooting for him. Trades working out for both teams is a good thing. You don't want to be the team no one will trade with because you always fleece the other GM.

If Moncada flopped, nobody would consider this a "fleecing" that would prevent trades in the future. I can't even imagine what *would* count as that sort of subterfuge, besides Preller-level medical bullshittery or hacking into someone's database. What do people imagine, that Dombrowski starts spinning tales of "this kid in A-ball" who hits the ball a country mile? If a team is trading for virtually *anyone* it's because they watched him for themselves. And that's the low-level lottery ticket guys. For the #1 prospect in all of baseball, who's been written up in hundreds of places since the day he defected from Cuba, what could the Sox have possibly known and kept from Chicago that constitutes a fleecing? That he secretly hates baseball?

Also I'm not rooting for him. I don't know why, but I can't stand the White Sox. I think it starts with Harrelson.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

If Moncada flopped, nobody would consider this a "fleecing" that would prevent trades in the future. I can't even imagine what *would* count as that sort of subterfuge, besides Preller-level medical bullshittery or hacking into someone's database. What do people imagine, that Dombrowski starts spinning tales of "this kid in A-ball" who hits the ball a country mile? If a team is trading for virtually *anyone* it's because they watched him for themselves. And that's the low-level lottery ticket guys. For the #1 prospect in all of baseball, who's been written up in hundreds of places since the day he defected from Cuba, what could the Sox have possibly known and kept from Chicago that constitutes a fleecing? That he secretly hates baseball?

Also I'm not rooting for him. I don't know why, but I can't stand the White Sox. I think it starts with Harrelson.

I was talking about the macro view, not one isolated trade. As a general rule, having trades work out well for both sides is an indisputably good thing.

 

[chrisfont9]

I was talking about the macro view, not one isolated trade. As a general rule, having trades work out well for both sides is an indisputably good thing.

OK, but I guess I am failing to understand why. It's not clear to me why there is some important element of "trust" with respect to the incoming player's ability involved. Don't GMs know exactly who they are trading for, and if it doesn't work out, it generally has nothing to do with what the other team secretly knew about what would happen? I do understand there are personal relationships involved here, we are talking about a market of only 30 entities, it's not like buying a house. And I would expect that some GMs might say "that kid, he won't like it in a tough media market" on occasion, or something along those lines, so maybe that's what we are talking about. But beyond a few personal background things that scouts wouldn't have detected, I'd think it's 100% caveat emptor.

 

[curly2]

And I agree about rooting for him. Trades working out for both teams is a good thing. You don't want to be the team no one will trade with because you always fleece the other GM.

Yeah, I don't think you have to "win" every trade. I hope Anderson Espinoza makes a full recovery from TJ and fulfills his promise. Either way, it's not going to affect how Drew Pomeranz pitches for the Sox.

I have nothing against Moncada. I want him to go 0-for-4 with an error in every game against the Red Sox, but I wouldn't root against him to faily against anyone else.

 

[trekfan55]

I don't think there is any way that this trade could be considering "fleecing" or a steal. Both teams got something they need. The White Sox got two great prospects (Kopech is supposed to be pretty good too, lest we forget) and the Red Sox got one of the best pitchers in baseball and have him under control for 3 years at a reasonable price.

Now, if Moncada fails to deliver on his promise it's still a win. The Red Sox traded Renteria for Marte when he was supposed to be one of the best prospects in baseball, traded him right back for Coco Crisp and Marte never got anywhere. These things happen. A fleecing is Bagwell for Andersen (who was a rental) or on the other side Slocumb for Varitek and Lowe.

 

[trekfan55]

Something else to factor into the equation w/r/t the Bagwell-Anderson trade is that it wasn't originally a "rental". Anderson wasn't a free agent to be when they acquired him. He was declared a free agent as part of a settlement regarding collusion.

Well that changes things. Anyway this thread has been officially highjacked now.

 

[Sprowl]

Well that changes things. Anyway this thread has been officially highjacked now.

I moved the Bagwell-Andersen discussion to its own thread. Hijack diverted to an unused rural airfield.

 

[LaszloKovacks]

An interesting comp from Dave Cameron today:

Lee: I think the most exciting thing about the first few weeks of Devers' career is 5 of his 6 home-runs have gone opposite field. What do you think his peak looks like? He’s a lot more impressive than I expected.

Dave Cameron: The fact that he has this kind of power while almost never pulling the ball is really quite amazing. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up as a Freddie Freeman type; it might take him some adjustment period to learn to hit for elite HR power (a few of his HRs so far have been Boston specials), but once he elevates more, he could be the best hitter in the game.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dave-cameron-fangraphs-chat-81617/

 

[Al Zarilla]

It's fun to accumulate comps on new guys. Mark DeRosa today mentioned Terry Pendleton on MLBN. I think we can do better than that, unless he was thinking of just peak Pendleton (MVP1 and MVP2 in 91 and 92).
Carlos Beltran (SW) and Will Clark come to mind, but who had an open stance with his hands up near the top of his head? Yaz on one of his iterations on his batting stances did, but his hands were crazy high. One of the Yankee threaders mentioned Cano, and that might be the best comp. yet, just on the swing and forget where the hands and feet start off, they end up roughly the same coming through the ball. I'm going with Cano.

 

[Montana Fan]

He reminds me of Robbie Alomar with power.

 

[soxeast]

Yep. There's still a pretty good chance he is a better player than Devers overall. In fact, I'd put money on that outcome over the reverse. Yes, Devers appears to have all the tools you want to see if you are betting on who will be the better hitter, but Moncada has the higher ceiling everywhere else and his ceiling as a hitter isn't much lower than Devers'.

And I agree about rooting for him. Trades working out for both teams is a good thing. You don't want to be the team no one will trade with because you always fleece the other GM.

I think Devers is going to be better for his career as long as he stays in Fenway. He's made to play in Fenway. That doesn't mean I don't think Moncada is going to be good. I think Moncada is incredibly weak vs lefties. I don't think his hitting career will be near as good as Devers as long as Devers stays in Fenway.

 

[Reggie's Racquet]

Tony Gwynn

 

[FinanceAdvice]

When I see the numbers that Devers and Nunez are putting up, I say Pablo who?

 

[nvalvo]

OK, but I guess I am failing to understand why. It's not clear to me why there is some important element of "trust" with respect to the incoming player's ability involved. Don't GMs know exactly who they are trading for, and if it doesn't work out, it generally has nothing to do with what the other team secretly knew about what would happen? I do understand there are personal relationships involved here, we are talking about a market of only 30 entities, it's not like buying a house. And I would expect that some GMs might say "that kid, he won't like it in a tough media market" on occasion, or something along those lines, so maybe that's what we are talking about. But beyond a few personal background things that scouts wouldn't have detected, I'd think it's 100% caveat emptor.

It's not so much about trusting the opposing GM as it is in trusting the quality of the work done by the coaching and player development people to help players convert (scoutable) tools into performance going forward.

You trade for Moncada, you're basically buying a little bit of Carlos Febles' highly-regarded infield instruction. That sort of thing.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

I don't want to make short and sweet reactionary post on the main board... BUT...

Did god make Wade Boggs with unbelievable power and really put him on this team?

Change ups. Curveballs... pitches guys go to all the time to steal a pitch away. And this guy is just murdering them the other way over the monster. It's nuts.

 

[pantsparty]

What impresses me the most is what I can see of his attitude. Huge, game-changing home run? "Well yeah, I'm good at baseball, what else did you think was going to happen?" Just goes up and hits and isn't intimidated by the situation.

 

[ponch73]

If my math is right, Devers has only had 81 plate appearances thus far. It's still a small sample.

Nevertheless, those 81 plate appearances have gone a long way to ease the sting of giving up Travis Shaw and his 26 HR's and .913 OPS for absolutely nothing this season.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I mentioned this in the game-thread but how fantastic is it that the Sox, at least for now, have a guy who is terrorizing the Yankees. I mean, Ortiz retires and I suspect many of their fans felt great about the team never having to face him again. Then Devers comes up and essentially gets their 100+MPH closer demoted.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

To be fair, 2017 Chapman is not the same pitcher as pre 2016 postseason Chapman was.

Thanks Joe Maddon!

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I mentioned this in the game-thread but how fantastic is it that the Sox, at least for now, have a guy who is terrorizing the Yankees. I mean, Ortiz retires and I suspect many of their fans felt great about the team never having to face him again. Then Devers comes up and essentially gets their 100+MPH closer demoted.

It is surely hubris to say this after 81 PA's, but 2016-2017 have a sort of 1960-1961 feel to them.

 

[patoaflac]

I mentioned this in the game-thread but how fantastic is it that the Sox, at least for now, have a guy who is terrorizing the Yankees. I mean, Ortiz retires and I suspect many of their fans felt great about the team never having to face him again. Then Devers comes up and essentially gets their 100+MPH closer demoted.

We could call him "little papi"

 

[Marbleheader]

We could call him "little papi"

No.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

It is surely hubris to say this after 81 PA's, but 2016-2017 have a sort of 1960-1961 feel to them.

I assume by 1960-61 feel you mean the transition from Williams to Yaz. It should be noted that though he was touted as Ted's heir apparent right from the start, Yaz didn't exactly light the world on fire in his rookie season (OPS+ of 91 in 148 games). He didn't make his first all star team until '63 (also when he won his first batting title) and didn't really become YAZ until '67.

While Devers is certainly showing shades of vintage Ortiz with the way he's stepped up in pressure spots, it's probably still too early to anoint him the next coming of Papi.

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

We could call him "little papi"

No.

His nickname should be Oppo or Spray Chart.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Baby Faced Killer. He's got cheeks that the old Italian ladies liked to pinch and twist.

 

[JimBoSox9]

Baby Faced Killer. He's got cheeks that the old Italian ladies liked to pinch and twist.

I've just been calling him "Baby Fat" all week

 

[simplicio]

 

[joyofsox]

Elias mentioned a couple of Devers Fun Facts and I went to Baseball Reference for more details:

Only Under-Age-21 Players To Hit Seven Home Runs In Their First 20 MLB Games

Orlando Cepeda, 1958 Giants - 7 HR in his first 20 games (8 HR in first 21 games)
Ron Swoboda, 1965 Mets - 7 HR in his first 18 games
Rafael Devers, 2017 Red Sox - 7 HR in his first 19 games


Only Under-Age-21 Players To Hit Home Runs In Consecutive Games Against The Yankees

Babe Ruth, Red Sox (3 consecutive games; because he was pitching, he did not play every game in a series)
May 6, 1915, off Jack Warhop
June 2, 1915, off Jack Warhop
June 25, 1915, off Ray Caldwell

Ted Williams, Red Sox
May 30, 1938, off Red Ruffing (G1) and Monte Pearson (G2)

Ken Griffey Jr., Mariners
May 20, 1989, off Dale Mohorcic (3-0 count)
May 21, 1989, off Clay Parker (1st pitch, inside-the-park)

Ken Griffey Jr., Mariners
May 12, 1990, off Tim Leary
May 13, 1990, off Lance McCullers

Rafael Devers, Red Sox
August 13, 2017, off Aroldis Chapman (103-mph fastball)
August 18, 2017, off Jordan Montgomery

Notes: Ruth's homers were the first three of his career.
Williams went deep twice against the Yankees on September 3, 1939, but he had turned 21 four days earlier.
Griffey also hit two dongs against the Yankees on May 30, 1989 (both on the first pitch).

 

[Wake's knuckle]

Please no more Pandas at third base. Red or otherwise. One was enough.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Somewhat surprised at the speed numbers

 

[BigSoxFan]

Somewhat surprised at the speed numbers

Somebody needs to send this to Pedey.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

Moreland must be paying someone to gather his "max speed sprints" data. I know Pedroia's not nearly as fast as he thinks he is, but slower than Moreland??

 

[Al Zarilla]

Somewhat surprised at the speed numbers

Same here (surprised by the speed numbers). Devers that close to Mookie?, and Leon should have much, much slower numbers than that compared to the top guys.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Somebody needs to send this to Pedey.

I wonder how much better his time would be if he hadn't gotten machadoed