Derek Jeter: Countdown to Retirement

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terrynever

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Jeter's OPS with RISP this year is a whopping .453, and he has the most ABs with RISP of any Yankee (67). I think that his hitting leadoff is at least part of the reason NY has so underperformed their Pythagorean projections this year, dude just kills rally after rally.
It would be nice to see the Yankees win about 10 in a row without Jeter in the lineup. The only time he has been productive is leading off the game, swinging at the first pitch he sees, as JA and others have pointed out. And he's probably successful at this because most opposing pitchers are not at the top of the their form one hitter into the game.
 

glennhoffmania

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If he killed rallies, which caused them to score fewer runs, then their pythag would be lower, no? Can you explain how Jeter is responsible for underperforming? I'm curious and I don't follow.

Edit- that was to Jon.
 

jon abbey

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If he killed rallies, which caused them to score fewer runs, then their pythag would be lower, no? Can you explain how Jeter is responsible for underperforming? I'm curious and I don't follow.

Edit- that was to Jon.
Heh, you're right, I'm an idiot. Never mind. [/Emily Litella]
 

glennhoffmania

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Listening to Kay on the radio right now. He's going off about how Yankee fans have to realize that the team, fans and city owe Jeter so much for what he's done that if it means he holds the team back for the next couple of years then so be it. And if they don't win a WS until after his contract expires and they can move on, no big deal. Because you don't disrespect Jeter by pushing him to the side even if you can get a top notch SS like Reyes, just like Boston didn't push Bird to the side when he was clearly done.

This guy is so fucking delusional.
 

jon abbey

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I can't remember one athlete in New York in my lifetime that has played the access game so well. Sportswriters in this town are afraid of Derek Jeter. It's amazing.
Not Joel Sherman:

"Jeter was a burden on the everyday lineup, made more so by the refusal of Joe Girardi to lower an icon to the eighth or ninth slot where he belongs these days. Remember, memories don’t play these games. The 2011 version of Jeter, like the 2010 version of Jeter, is mainly an out machine who every once in a while hits a single. There are few extra-base hits, little impact, negative clutch. He offers steady, but rather range-less defense. There is none of the live-wire athleticism associated with his prime. As much as his most ardent fans want to close their eyes and pretend he is offering something special, he is not."

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/up_jeter_kuroda_gordon_OFaUWL9hsmgQyikbqR8xCP
 

mt8thsw9th

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http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/derek-jeter-just-6-squib-grounders-shallow-bloops,20747/

Yankees captain Derek Jeter hit a seeing-eye wormburner through the left side of the infield for his 2,994th career hit Monday, leaving him just six toppers down the third-base line, Texas Leaguers, or check-swing humpback liners short of 3,000 hits.
 

abty

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Most of you are lucky you don't get WFAN. If you do, you may be familiar with a caller named Joe D. Joe D. s the ultimate yankee homer, and an old timer to boot, who would cut your throat if you didn't ask Joe Dimaggio to piss in your corn flakes. I can only IMAGINE what he'd say to Yankee fans who don't worship Saint Derek.

(edited to spell out Dimaggio as both he and the caller on WFAN are known as Joe D)
 

BucketOBalls

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What do you suggest they do with him?

The easy way out for the Yankees is for Jeter to pull a DiMaggio at the end of the season and walk away, hopefully after the Yankees win the WS. But the money is too big. DiMaggio was 36 and walked away from $100,000. Jeter would be walking away from $26M. Ain't going to happen.
Couldn't the Yankee's just pay him the rest of is contact anyway? Offer him a "consultant" position or something. Seems like a solvable problem. Really, I think getting him to agree would be the bigger problem.
 

NoMaRRaMoN

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Couldn't the Yankee's just pay him the rest of is contact anyway? Offer him a "consultant" position or something. Seems like a solvable problem. Really, I think getting him to agree would be the bigger problem.
They can certainly afford it, but he would never agree to it. He's too proud and it would incite too much hate.
 

NoMaRRaMoN

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Not Joel Sherman:

"Jeter was a burden on the everyday lineup, made more so by the refusal of Joe Girardi to lower an icon to the eighth or ninth slot where he belongs these days. Remember, memories don’t play these games. The 2011 version of Jeter, like the 2010 version of Jeter, is mainly an out machine who every once in a while hits a single. There are few extra-base hits, little impact, negative clutch. He offers steady, but rather range-less defense. There is none of the live-wire athleticism associated with his prime. As much as his most ardent fans want to close their eyes and pretend he is offering something special, he is not."

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/up_jeter_kuroda_gordon_OFaUWL9hsmgQyikbqR8xCP
Unexpected truth bombs about Jeter. It's amazing how many in the media are too scared to say these things.
 

jon abbey

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NY is scoring 5.89 runs per game since Jeter has been out, 5.16 per game before that.
 

jon abbey

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Heh, close. He works very well in the first inning and is dead after that, not sure what the precise analogy should be there.

I hope his calm eyes have some setbacks, one Jeter-free month would be nice.
 

terrynever

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Unexpected truth bombs about Jeter. It's amazing how many in the media are too scared to say these things.
It takes courage to write the truth about an fading icon. Sherman is very secure in his job. He's been at the Post for more than 20 years.

Jeter is actually an easier target than Clemens or Yaz or most other fading icons who stay too long at the dance. Derek will just snub Sherman when he comes back. No loss there. Jeter has yet to say anything really interesting about himself or the sport he plays. And he has been around almost as long as Sherman.

Most writers dislike athletes who censor their own remarks. Jeter at his core is boring.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Heh, close. He works very well in the first inning and is dead after that, not sure what the precise analogy should be there.
This is the second time you've mentioned this. You don't seriously think his first inning numbers are due to anything other than random variance within an extremely small sample, do you?
 

TheYaz67

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"He can't do anything with his legs," Cashman said. Asked if he was pessimistic about Jeter returning when he's eligible to come off the 15-day disabled list on June 29, the GM said, "I can't say I'm pessimistic, but he's not ready yet. By this time frame, we clearly made the right decision putting him on the DL. Whether he's ready on the 15th day, the 16th day or the 17th day, I can't tell you exactly when he'll be ready."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2011/06/23/2011-06-23_derek_jeters_targeted_june_29_return_in_doubt_due_to_persistent_soreness_in_calf.html#ixzz1QDaZg7v9
Sounds like they will send him down for a few tune up games in early July according to Cashman's comments in that article elsewhere, and if it responds well, I would assume they will bring him back up around July 4/5 in Cleveland. That gives him two road games+ to maybe pick up 2-3 hits, setting him up for a 4 game set at home against Tampa before the ASB for the big 3,000. If he doesn't get it then, I don't know what - they are on the road for a while after the ASB....
 

jon abbey

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This is the second time you've mentioned this. You don't seriously think his first inning numbers are due to anything other than random variance within an extremely small sample, do you?
I do, actually. I think that a lot of non-AL East teams are a bit intimidated/in awe/nervous/whatever when facing NY, and this is especially true for teams playing in Yankee Stadium. Add in living legend (no joke for once) Derek Jeter leading off the game, and factor in that many pitchers struggle in the first inning before finding a groove, not to mention the ump settling in, and I think there's more than randomness separating his .472 OBP when leading off the game from his .297 OBP the rest of the time.
 

jon abbey

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FWIW, in 2010, his OBP when leading off the game was .365, then .336 for the rest of the game.

Also, I tend to look for meaning in SSS data probably more than I should, but I think that others may be too quick to write things off solely due to SSS.
 

Bob420

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Is it leading off the game or leading off an inning? I thought his OBP was over .400 when leading off an inning.
 

jon abbey

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Is it leading off the game or leading off an inning? I thought his OBP was over .400 when leading off an inning.
Those numbers are for leading off the game, but that is of course a major chunk of leading off all innings when you're the #1 hitter (about half usually, I'd think). He has a .472 OBP leading off the game, .340 OBP leading off any inning but the 1st, .286 OBP when he is not leading off an inning.
 

mt8thsw9th

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Jeter is actually an easier target than Clemens or Yaz or most other fading icons who stay too long at the dance.
How did Clemens stay too long? Seems like he left at the first sign that he couldn't stay healthy anymore. Yaz stuck around for 5 seasons as a 108 OPS+ DH. I don't really see how their situations are that similar. Jeter's in year two of his Yaz exit, it appears.
 

th@tkid

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How did Clemens stay too long? Seems like he left at the first sign that no one would sign him anymore due to his PED problems. Yaz stuck around for 5 seasons as a 108 OPS+ DH. I don't really see how their situations are that similar. Jeter's in year two of his Yaz exit, it appears.
Fixed that for you
 

jon abbey

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Oh, come on. I know you love doing "X since X happened" but you have to chalk that up to SSS.
Feel free to do that, and you may be right, but these are the numbers we have. As I said above, I tend to look for meaning in SSS probably more than I should.
 

Shawn O'Leary

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Heh, close. He works very well in the first inning and is dead after that, not sure what the precise analogy should be there.

I hope his calm eyes have some setbacks, one Jeter-free month would be nice.
Sounds like a bad carb. Ever have a lawn mower fire right up only to shut off a second or two later?
 

jon abbey

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[quote name='Trlicek's Whip' timestamp='1308944366' post='3606722']
I'm surprised I haven't seen a "Just How Good Is Eduardo Nunez?" thread yet, since he's hitting .290 with two 2B, one HR, and 2 SB's in nine games since filling in for Jeter.
[/quote]

He's definitely got a nice skill set, and he consistently hits the ball very hard, but his defense and baserunning have both been pretty up and down thus far. The question for me is how much of that is inexperience and how much is poor decision making/execution, and the more playing time he gets, the more we'll get a clearer picture.
 

WayBackVazquez

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I do, actually. I think that a lot of non-AL East teams are a bit intimidated/in awe/nervous/whatever when facing NY, and this is especially true for teams playing in Yankee Stadium. Add in living legend (no joke for once) Derek Jeter leading off the game, and factor in that many pitchers struggle in the first inning before finding a groove, not to mention the ump settling in, and I think there's more than randomness separating his .472 OBP when leading off the game from his .297 OBP the rest of the time.
I suppose those could be potential reasons to explain why he hits better to lead off a game if indeed he hits better leading off a game. But I don't think he does. His OBP is .472 in that situation primarily because his AVG is .391. But I don't think he's actually hitting the ball any better. Of his 18 hits in that situation, 10 of them were either infield hits or ground balls through the infield. It's just way too luck dependent in way too small of a sample.
 

abty

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J.A makes a great point (well, 2 great points). Do not forget, though, that Jeter is exceptional and jumping on early fastballs from pitchers. IIRC, he belted a 2000 W.S Homer in Shea using that method. The pitching regimen changes after the first inning/when he is not leading off. It does make sense that he would have that success early on. Nobody wants to walk the Yankee leadoff hitter, esp. in that stadium, so he's guaranteed to get good pitches to hit.
 

abty

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To be fair, his ops after the first inning was .304. So it's a matter of perspective :)
Ok, I submit to the SSS overlord.
 

glennhoffmania

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J.A makes a great point (well, 2 great points). Do not forget, though, that Jeter is exceptional and jumping on early fastballs from pitchers. IIRC, he belted a 2000 W.S Homer in Shea using that method. The pitching regimen changes after the first inning/when he is not leading off. It does make sense that he would have that success early on. Nobody wants to walk the Yankee leadoff hitter, esp. in that stadium, so he's guaranteed to get good pitches to hit.
You're bringing up an isolated AB from 11 years ago to support this theory?
 

abty

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No, I'm bringing up a traumatic event that I recall when analyzing what I have noticed about Jeter when *I* watch him.
It goes well with my theory that every damn time the Yankees are down 1/2 runs, in the 9th, at home, that bastard comes to the plate.
 

Maalox

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Funny, because the take-home memory for me about Jeter from that series was him putting up a .567 OPS with just one extra-base hit (and going 4-19 in the last 4 games, all singles) while all the blame got piled on A-Rod (who wasn't great but had a HR in game 4).
I was talking about the defining moment of Jeter's career.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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No, I'm bringing up a traumatic event that I recall when analyzing what I have noticed about Jeter when *I* watch him.
It goes well with my theory that every damn time the Yankees are down 1/2 runs, in the 9th, at home, that bastard comes to the plate.
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
 

jon abbey

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This is pretty funny:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6713507/derek-jeter-dl-diary
 

terrynever

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AP story says Jeter may begin rehab in Trenton on Saturday. Scranton is in Pawtucket Saturday and Sunday but I guess Jeter likes Trenton better.
 

jon abbey

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What's the over/under for infield groundouts in those two AA games, 4?
 

th@tkid

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I have a feeling that he comes back raking. Just a hunch but I think the time away will do him some good.
/end projection of ideal scenario
 

glennhoffmania

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Yes, because nothing improves bat speed and coordination like two or three weeks away from MLB pitching.
 
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