Dennard Learns About the Law
- Thread starter Dan Murfman
- Start date
Is there any chance (and how likely to work would it be) that his lawyers can ask the judge for another chance since he did keep his nose clean during the pre-season, season, and post season and if they lock him up now, he would very likely be cut, out of the league, and taken away from the one thing that has kept him "clean"?
They can make that argument, but the judge already gave him a convenient sentence, allowing him to serve 30 after the 2013-14 season. If he's committed a DUI, the court may not want to give him another chance. Probation is basically a deal. Keep your nose clean, and stay out of jail. Don't think the judge is going to be impressed that he kept his nose clean during the football season.
Good to see the team isn't overreacting to Weedz. My thought going into this was that, like the AH situation, they wanted to see more than just suspicion before acting -- but it seems that they are (rightly) approaching this on a case-by-case basis.
I'll still be surprised if he's here to start the season. I dont really like keeping him if he's going to be missing part of of camp and some playing time. Hopefully he's telling the truth about the DUI circumstances and his probation isnt revoked and the charges are thrown out.
Stitch01 said:
A player "missing part of the camp and some playing time" is no reason to cut him. Dennard will contribute this year, not like the-just-released Jones, and Pats are making the right decision to keep him.
The mediots spewing fake outrage comparing this situation to AH's release are, well, mediots.
Stitch01 said:
Unlike Ras-I Dowling who will miss part of camp, some playing time and I'd be surprised if he's not on IR to start the season.
I think it does show that Hernandez's release was PR driven though. Bill probably wanted to suspend him indefinitely to see if the charges stick and to get all of the bonus money back, but was overruled by Kraft. Cutting Dennard doesn't do anything for PR, so he stays.
The Pats have to be under the assumption that Dennard is going to miss most, if not the entire season whether it's in jail or suspended by the league.
The Pats have to be under the assumption that Dennard is going to miss most, if not the entire season whether it's in jail or suspended by the league.
axx said:
Absolutely. Because being under suspicion of DUI is just like getting arrested for a homicide.
I still think he's never playing another down as a Patriot. We will see.SeoulSoxFan said:
EDIT: Basically, I think its more likely than not that Dennard's version of events isnt the complete truth and he's going to get cut after the probation hearing.
Hope Im wrong and he did get railroaded and it becomes obvious in court.
@BenVolin: More info on Dennard DUI arrest: Had 1-2 beers at home. Fell asleep from 9-1 am. Drove to girlfriend's house. Arrested 1/2 mile from home
How he could be considered over the legal limit is beyond me.
How he could be considered over the legal limit is beyond me.
RedOctober3829 said:
How is it known that he had "1-2 beers", though? Isn't that what all drunk drivers say? (And how don't you know whether you had one or two beers, anyway. Who loses track at "one or two"?)
RedOctober3829 said:
Pulled over for DWB and then arrested when the cop realized who he was? I can't imagine he's that popular among police in that area.
Jettisoned said:
Yeah, I'm not sure why he'd worry about that, it's not a big college football town.
RedOctober3829 said:
The story is apparently he got a positive finding for the Breathalyzer by default because he (deliberately?) didn't blow into the device hard enough. His actual blood alcohol level is unknown.
Beyond that, 2 beers probably could be quite a bit of alcohol depending on what was consumed and the size of the bottle/can.
Harry Hooper said:
2 beers, no matter the size of the can, at least 4 hours before driving is going to do absolutely nothing to a 200+ pound person.
The usual caveat applies, obviously. If Dennard's story is true.
I'd love that can in my mancave.
I'd love that can in my mancave.
Harry Hooper said:
After 4 hours of sleep?
Based on what has been reported through this hour, I would not pull his ticket at the scheduled hearing. I'd wait until this violation is resolved and base my decision on the outcome of that, including what, if any, punishment is imposed.
That's reasonable to hope for given how the judge adjudicated the assault charge. But it's far from certain. And if his ticket is pulled, we may be looking at a lost season for Dennard, depending on how long he must stay in the can.
Harry Hooper said:
Two ways to look at this. Either he didn't blow hard enough on purpose to avoid a reading. Or he did, and the cops are now just saying this is what happened to cover the fact he wasn't actually over the limit.
Does anyone know the IR rules for a dude who is arrested/suspended? Is there a way to avoid using a roster spot and having him back for the playoffs if he misses, say, 10 weeks? Would they have to use the Revocable IR? Could they?
I think you can only IR due to injury, but during the suspensions of Cunningham, Bolden, and Talib last year the Patriots got a roster exception and were able to carry an extra player.Ed Hillel said:
It's entirely possible that he he had 2 beers, fell asleep for four hours and then was still worried about the breathalyzer and didn't blow hard into it because he's a fucking moron who doesn't know how alcohol works.
That would be inconsistent with the couldn't drive straight/straddling the lines part of the police report. I think you either have to believe he was drunk and didn't want to take the test or the cops targeted him, and fudged some stuff. Either one seems entirely plausible to me at this point.Reverend said:
Dennard had originally been scheduled to appear in court today, but here is an update.
New England Patriots cornerback Alfonzo Dennard will not be in Lancaster County District Court on Monday, as had been previously scheduled. He received a continuance on the hearing related to his July 11 arrest on suspicion of driving under the influence in Lincoln, Neb. The re-scheduled hearing will now take place on Oct. 8, which is a Tuesday, the day players have off during the regular season.
Dennard remains scheduled to be in court on Aug. 27 for a probation revocation hearing. He received two years probation on April 11, 2013 in relation to an incident that took place in April 2012, for which Dennard was found guilty of felony assault of a police officer.
The 23-year old, who emerged as a starter at the tail end of his rookie season, has been limited recently due to an undisclosed injury and sat out the Patriots preseason opener.
New England Patriots cornerback Alfonzo Dennard will not be in Lancaster County District Court on Monday, as had been previously scheduled. He received a continuance on the hearing related to his July 11 arrest on suspicion of driving under the influence in Lincoln, Neb. The re-scheduled hearing will now take place on Oct. 8, which is a Tuesday, the day players have off during the regular season.
Dennard remains scheduled to be in court on Aug. 27 for a probation revocation hearing. He received two years probation on April 11, 2013 in relation to an incident that took place in April 2012, for which Dennard was found guilty of felony assault of a police officer.
The 23-year old, who emerged as a starter at the tail end of his rookie season, has been limited recently due to an undisclosed injury and sat out the Patriots preseason opener.
I believe August 27th is the first cutdown deadline (90 to 75). It's kind of awkward timing; I'm sure Dennard's availability is going to play into roster decisions.SunkToANewLowell said:
Could someone shed some light on this for me? This is the second time, at least, his hearing has been pushed back, correct? Who is rescheduling these hearings? Is it Dennard and/or his lawyer, or the Courts?
I'm just trying to find out the endgame here. My understanding (which may well be incorrect) was that it would be better for Dennard and the Pats to get this situation sorted out right away? Why would either of them want to go into the season without knowing his availability? Or is this Dennard trying to make sure the Pats can't cut him loose before his salary is guaranteed? I can't imagine that would make Belichick or Kraft happy.
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I'm just not getting who this helps.
Edit: Could the plan be to try and keep rescheduling until after the season, hoping that he can play the full year and then serve any time that may be necessary immediately following the season, (potentially) allowing him to return in time for training camp next year? That sounds quite........Belichickian.
I'm just trying to find out the endgame here. My understanding (which may well be incorrect) was that it would be better for Dennard and the Pats to get this situation sorted out right away? Why would either of them want to go into the season without knowing his availability? Or is this Dennard trying to make sure the Pats can't cut him loose before his salary is guaranteed? I can't imagine that would make Belichick or Kraft happy.
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I'm just not getting who this helps.
Edit: Could the plan be to try and keep rescheduling until after the season, hoping that he can play the full year and then serve any time that may be necessary immediately following the season, (potentially) allowing him to return in time for training camp next year? That sounds quite........Belichickian.
I'm not a practicing lawyer even though I am a JD (I use the MBA part in business FWIW) anyway... for those among us who are practicing lawyers, are rescheduled rehearings common? Because from my law school friends I get that it is. I've had a guy whose rehearing was rescheduled for almost a year on a probation incident similar to Dennard's. But I don't know what is normal and what is not and making assumptions on a sample size of 2 is idiotic.
Very common, and they spring from a variety of reasons, most of them mundane.
What's unusual here is the NFL interplay. Currently, it's scheduled the Friday before game 1. I expect it may be moved again.
But don't be surprised if it isn't, and don't be entirely shocked if she drops the hammer and orders him to serve 30 days w/o notice.
He's had plenty of notice, to stay the hell out of trouble and then of this attempt to put him away. I realize he may be a victim, but the rest of the world does not revolve around the NFL, weird as that may seem.
What's unusual here is the NFL interplay. Currently, it's scheduled the Friday before game 1. I expect it may be moved again.
But don't be surprised if it isn't, and don't be entirely shocked if she drops the hammer and orders him to serve 30 days w/o notice.
He's had plenty of notice, to stay the hell out of trouble and then of this attempt to put him away. I realize he may be a victim, but the rest of the world does not revolve around the NFL, weird as that may seem.
My guess is that Dennard would rather have the hearing scheduled on a regular season Friday (not much to do), as opposed to in the middle of the week, even a preseason game week. He could fly Thursday after practice, get excused from the Friday walk-through, and be back in time for the team flight Saturday without much trouble (depending on what the judge does at the hearing, of course). Being there today would have required him to miss a lot more work.
Wouldn't the guilt (for lack of the proper term) of violating the probation in this case be predicated on the result of the trial that is now rescheduled for 10/6? Isn't this a case of cart before the horse? In other words, in theory, could he be guilty of violating his parole even if he is found not guilty of the charges that brought the parole violation into question?
That is one of the tough parts about representing somebody who is on probation - even if they are ultimately not guilty of the new criminal conduct, the burden of proof in probation hearings in much lower (preponderance of the evidence) and conditions are very strict so its possible to lose even when you succeed on the new charges. Plus prosecutors can usually hold large sentences that were withheld on the original charge but subject to the successful probation over the head of the defendant. Generally, my experience is that you wrap it all up into one plea deal where you deal with the new stuff and the probation violation in one deal. One of the other issues is that when you are being held on the probation violation (PV) you don't get credit for time served on the new criminal conduct (not an issue for Dennard since he is out) so people often plead quickly on the PV so they can start getting credit for both when they are sitting in jail.
I haven't reviewed the facts, but my guess is that Dennard isn't going to win everything in this matter and will be unavailable for significant time this season.
Note this is based criminal defense work in Maine.
I haven't reviewed the facts, but my guess is that Dennard isn't going to win everything in this matter and will be unavailable for significant time this season.
Note this is based criminal defense work in Maine.
Delays on stuff like this are common, although less somewhat on public cases, because the prosecutors don't want to appear to be giving special consideration to celebrity or public defendants (even when its not special consideration).
Keep in mind there is no urgency here. No one cares if it moves fast. He's still on probation, there's no speedy trial rights, Denard may have a preference if there is some revocation coming, but pushing it out until they have a handle on the suspicion of DUI case is not a big deal. And as probation violations go, this is about one step above jaywalking. Not taking anything away from the serious problem drinking and driving is, but its not like he's on probation for a drug offense and they've arrested him for distribution. If that county has a crowded jail, it may never come to hearing.
Keep in mind there is no urgency here. No one cares if it moves fast. He's still on probation, there's no speedy trial rights, Denard may have a preference if there is some revocation coming, but pushing it out until they have a handle on the suspicion of DUI case is not a big deal. And as probation violations go, this is about one step above jaywalking. Not taking anything away from the serious problem drinking and driving is, but its not like he's on probation for a drug offense and they've arrested him for distribution. If that county has a crowded jail, it may never come to hearing.
Is continued delay and movement of this hearing during the entire season a reasonable expectation here? I have no idea how court scheduling works or why it works that way. Do his lawyers potentially have significant influence on the date? Does extending the time period period his DUI and this hearing help his cause? "
e.g. yea he screwed up, but that was 6 months ago and he has been a model citizen since!"
e.g. yea he screwed up, but that was 6 months ago and he has been a model citizen since!"
My understanding is that judges often move hearings because something comes up (a trial, some more pressing matter, etc...) that takes up the day in question. Since judges have cyclical rotations of a few weeks each, you typically don't just bump a hearing by a day or two; it gets bumped to the next cycle. However, judges will also grant continuances when requested, as long as its not for an absurd reason or the requesting attorney abuses the favor.
Who knows why it's been delayed. Maybe there have been a couple of trials that have happened to bump the hearing date to the next cycle.
That being said, I'd be shocked if this keeps getting bumped.
Who knows why it's been delayed. Maybe there have been a couple of trials that have happened to bump the hearing date to the next cycle.
That being said, I'd be shocked if this keeps getting bumped.
It's getting to the point where Dennard probably doesn't want the continuances. If he's going to serve his 30 days and miss 4-5 games I'm sure he and the team would rather know and be able to address it rather than continue to wait for some other shoe to drop.
Also, if the hearing takes place as scheduled on 9/16 and Dennard is immediately taken into custody to serve his 30 days, he would miss what looks to be an extremely difficult slate of games against dangerous passing offenses: vs.TB, @ATL, @CIN, vs.NO.
All of that said, and at the risk of being glib about his legal situation, all that really matters to me is that Dennard is healthy and available for the playoffs. Whether he plays 12 or 16 regular season games matters a lot less.
EDIT: Also, can someone please change the thread title?
Also, if the hearing takes place as scheduled on 9/16 and Dennard is immediately taken into custody to serve his 30 days, he would miss what looks to be an extremely difficult slate of games against dangerous passing offenses: vs.TB, @ATL, @CIN, vs.NO.
All of that said, and at the risk of being glib about his legal situation, all that really matters to me is that Dennard is healthy and available for the playoffs. Whether he plays 12 or 16 regular season games matters a lot less.
EDIT: Also, can someone please change the thread title?