December General NHL News
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riveraulwick said:
The Penguins don't really have a "tough guy" on the roster, definitely not one of Thornton's stature...Engelland will fight but he hasn't been the same guy for the last couple of seasons. Dupuis tried to step in during the final scrum, but was tied up by Bergeron, and the only other guy there was Letang.
I don't think anyone thinks he's a full-on cheap shot artist like his teammate James Neal, but he's a borderline guy. Lots of high hits that Pens fans could easily defend as legal and opponents could deride as dirty. I think the point is that if you're going to live on the edge like that, you're going to anger people.Greg29fan said:
The Penguins thought it was over when Engelland fought Lucic, though I think that was more of an organic bout than a retribution fight. Also, when a guy gets wheeled off on a stretcher you rarely see continued fighting and rough stuff in the game. That pretty much ends it.
I don't think Orpik was obligated to fight, but I don't think Thornton was wrong to challenge him earlier in the game. You see a top 6 winger get KO'd on a questionable hit 30 seconds in, you have to ask. If it was, say, Boychuk on Neal or Kunitz you bet your ass Engelland or Adams go after Boychuk.
I don't think Orpik was obligated to fight, but I don't think Thornton was wrong to challenge him earlier in the game. You see a top 6 winger get KO'd on a questionable hit 30 seconds in, you have to ask. If it was, say, Boychuk on Neal or Kunitz you bet your ass Engelland or Adams go after Boychuk.
And I'm not even saying he should "have" to fight for the legal hits, as MoGator mentioned. But when you run around destroying guys for years, including star players, you are going to be expected to answer the bell, rightly or wrongly.
Now, it doesn't excuse what happened nor do I intend to be blaming the victim here, but I do think it provides context and makes it not surprising that something uncalled for happened. But like I said, doesn't excuse Thornton's actions at all (which I think get worse every time I watch them).
Now, it doesn't excuse what happened nor do I intend to be blaming the victim here, but I do think it provides context and makes it not surprising that something uncalled for happened. But like I said, doesn't excuse Thornton's actions at all (which I think get worse every time I watch them).
You don't acknowledge there could be differing opinions on this? You think Eriksson had possession of the puck—or had legitimately touched it rather than having it haphazardly graze the toe of his blade on a carom? You don't think Orpik lined him up? Made no play whatsoever for an open puck? Because these are the things that players and coaches with decades in the league are appraising from a very, very experienced point of view. Does Thornton make a practice of forcing opponents to answer for clean hits? The reply I see shows the crown of his shoulder pad connecting with Loui's chin. I think a lot of people see that. That's an impressive level of conviction to have.Greg29fan said:
And the way it tends to work itself out if you don't answer the bell, rightly or wrongly, is that some one on your team gets crushed with an open ice hit that may be even more questionable. If you lay huge borderline hits, or any big hits that knock players out of the game, there is usually going to be some amount of retribution. If you aren't willing to pay the bill yourself then someone of your team inevitably will.The Four Peters said:
I'm not saying I agree with it but it is the way things work out in the NHL.
The Four Peters said:
I don't even think this is accurate. I don't remember him "destroying" anybody before Saturday night, except for Erik Cole, and like I said, that was almost a decade ago, or even hitting many star players. I remember a big hit on Hossa in the Stanley Cup Finals, but that was just a normal big hit. I went back and looked on YouTube, most of his bigger hits are on guys like Daniel Paille and Erik Gryba.
Well, others will disagree with that, myself included. You must have an additional camera angle that shows daylight between shoulder and head. To my knowledge, no such angle exists. But, faith is after all, a belief in things not seenGreg29fan said:
catomatic said:
If you're going to note Julien thinking it was a dirty hit, neither the refs (in the heat of the moment) nor the league (after watching video) thought it was dirty, did they? I'm guessing Bylsma thinks it was a clean hit, too. I know the classic answer of the refs missing things and the wheel of justice will come into play, but they're definitely not as biased as Julien when it comes to a hit on his star winger.
This talk is crazy. Orpik doesn't have to fight. Thornton is 100% to blame for causing the injury.
ForceAtHome said:
For what it's worth, the Refs didn't give Phaneuf a penalty for his hit on Miller - and he was suspended by the league for 2 games today.
The refs are not infallible.
TheShynessClinic said:
I knew that exact response was coming, which is why I noted both the refs and the league deemed it okay. Yes, the refs make mistakes. Yes, the league sometimes makes mistakes. In general though, when both the refs and league deem a hit fine, I'll take their word with a little more weight over the coach of an injured player. With no vested interest in the game, I also happen to think the Orpik hit was legal.
Obviously, Thornton is to blame for the injury, but I do think that if you're going to be the guy to jack someone up just for the sake of jacking someone up, on a questionably legal hit, you should be willing to answer the bell. You can argue that maybe Thornton isn't the guy he should do it against, but then again maybe don't run the guy who has (I believe) zero career fights. Orpik could have just as easily made a play on that puck, but decided instead to crush the player, and it's not at all unforeseeable that such a hit could have taken out Erikkson.ForceAtHome said:
The league deeming a play not worthy of supplemental discipline doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't a penalty.
Truly. Bad litmus. Scott Walker received no suspension whatsoever for sucker-punching Aaron Ward—post whistle—in the playoffs a few years back, breaking a bone in his face and then scoring the series-winning goal in Game 7. Was Thornton's unprovoked attack 2X as bad? 3X? Had Aaron Ward taken out a Hurricane player with a borderline hit, or was it just that his team happened to be up 4-nil? Sorry, but the severity of league discipline is not a legitimate measure of the infraction. I'm in no way saying anyone but Thornton is responsible, I am in no way saying there is a place for this in the game, but everybody invoking Bertuzzi and saying unequivocally that Orpik's hit was whistle-clean merits some legitimate challenges to those types of assertions.cshea said:
I thought it was very interesting that Phaneuf and Carlyle were defiant and unapologetic about the hit on Miller in their quotes today, while Julien and even Bylsma (who was a Matt Cooke apologist for years) were very good about taking responsibility for the nonsense that went down the other night.
The Phaneuf hit is textbook boarding, why not just say you mis-judged the hit and you're sorry about it?
The Phaneuf hit is textbook boarding, why not just say you mis-judged the hit and you're sorry about it?
I thought this article in the Ottawa Sun was a good read. They interviewed Matt Kassian and Jay Rosehill about the Thornton / Orpik incident.
Also, any guesses which exec had this to say:
Also, any guesses which exec had this to say:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/sports/hockey/mcilrath-rangers-columbus.html?ref=sports
Dylan McIlrath to finally get a chance in the NHL. Has looked to be a horrible pick by the Rangers,
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2010e.html
Dylan McIlrath to finally get a chance in the NHL. Has looked to be a horrible pick by the Rangers,
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2010e.html
He was an overdraft and will be a zero offensively, but he's good enough to potentially be the long-term replacement for Marc Staal's spot if his concussion problems continue. Not sure how much time he'll get on a Vigneault team though, he'd have been a better fit under Tortorella.
Shane Doan has some kind of illness and is going to be out for the "foreseeable future." The Coyotes have said it isn't terminal or even season-ending but nothing beyond that.
http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/nhl/phoenix-coyotes/story/Coyotes-notes-Maloney-dispels-some-Doan-?blockID=972387&feedID=9050
http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/nhl/phoenix-coyotes/story/Coyotes-notes-Maloney-dispels-some-Doan-?blockID=972387&feedID=9050
Wings/Leafs Road to the Winter Classic starts tonight. Looking forward to Datsyuk antics and Phil Kessel being visibly uncomfortable.
Man the Canucks NEVER stop whining. What an insufferable bunch of douchebags? Yeah, Marchand is an annoying little punk. That is why Bieksa left his feet to hit him int he head during a scrum with his forearm and why Kesler tried to eye gouge him in the scrum before Marchand kissed his ring. Isn't it over at that point? Not for Vancouver. It's not over until they cry to the media.FelixMantilla said:
I love Marchand even more for that.
Marchand is at his best when he's playing with one foot over the line. At times this year, he has looked timid - as a result - he's looked like shit for most of this season.
I'm not going to blame Julien/Chiarelli - but Marchands game is predicated on getting others off of theirs, and I wonder how much Julien/Chiarelli are trying to soften that edge a bit.
Marchand's game is at its' best when he is getting other players off of theirs. When he has players trying to run him, and are focused more on "getting him back," he's a better player. He seems to calm down, and play with more focus when he's the center of the other teams attention. The best way to get him off of his game is to ignore his bullshit. Chicago did a great job of that last year.
Marchand has looked a lot better lately, and it's no surprise it's coincided with him playing more rat-like over the last couple of weeks.
Let's hope this is the start of a huge run for him.
Marchand is at his best when he's playing with one foot over the line. At times this year, he has looked timid - as a result - he's looked like shit for most of this season.
I'm not going to blame Julien/Chiarelli - but Marchands game is predicated on getting others off of theirs, and I wonder how much Julien/Chiarelli are trying to soften that edge a bit.
Marchand's game is at its' best when he is getting other players off of theirs. When he has players trying to run him, and are focused more on "getting him back," he's a better player. He seems to calm down, and play with more focus when he's the center of the other teams attention. The best way to get him off of his game is to ignore his bullshit. Chicago did a great job of that last year.
Marchand has looked a lot better lately, and it's no surprise it's coincided with him playing more rat-like over the last couple of weeks.
Let's hope this is the start of a huge run for him.
I'm more disappointed in LeBrun helping Vancouver build a mountain out of that molehill. Yeah, in a perfect world, Marchand doesn't have to be such an on-ice douche to play well, but in that same perfect world, Vancouver just goes about their business and enjoy their 7th straight win instead of bitching about an opponent they trounced.
Apparently the Canucks are the only team in sports that can get the ESPN comments sections to side with a team from Boston.
Note: It's the two whiny babies who needed to comment to LeBrun grabbing Marchand's head in that clip. All class Kesler.
Not only that, but when he becomes the center of the other teams' attention, it draws them away from covering the other players on his line and opens the ice up for them a bit. Bergeron is a top quality player yet when Marchand is at his best occupying the other team suddenly seams open up for him. As Marchand has gotten his game back on his whole line has improved.TheShynessClinic said:
Yeah, Marchy and Lucic make this team go pretty much. When they are on their games, the first two lines become much, much harder to play against. As long s Tuukka isn't giving up softies all over the place, that bodes well for the Bs.
Never been a Haggs fan, but I think he nailed it here.
http://www.csnne.com/boston-bruins/thorntons-penalty-green-light-nhl-predators
http://www.csnne.com/boston-bruins/thorntons-penalty-green-light-nhl-predators
Alexander Steen gets a 3-year extension from the Blues at $5.8 AAV ($17.4m total). He would have been a UFA after this season.