DE Michael Bennett Traded to Dallas for a 7th

Koufax

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The cap room is huge for the Pats. Maybe they can pick up someone for the O-line.
 

lexrageorge

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Bennett was a good pickup this offseason, but unfortunately didn't fit into the team's defensive scheme when it changed from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Not really his fault. Maybe he could have handled it better with the coaches, but sometimes things just don't work out. Given their cap situation, he became a luxury they couldn't afford.
 

BigJimEd

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I was hoping they could get a little more for him but not surprised they basically had to dump him.
 

DonBuddinE6

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Still, it's a bit surprising that they'd trade someone to a team that they're playing in 4 weeks.
 

Harry Hooper

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Bennett was a good pickup this offseason, but unfortunately didn't fit into the team's defensive scheme when it changed from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Not really his fault. Maybe he could have handled it better with the coaches, but sometimes things just don't work out. Given their cap situation, he became a luxury they couldn't afford.
To add to this, I believe Wise has functioned in the 3-4 much more effectively than was anticipated.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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The cap room is huge for the Pats. Maybe they can pick up someone for the O-line.
Can you suggest who you'd like to pick up? Or at the very least who you want to replace?

I don't think they have any plans or interest in replacing Thuney or Cannon. Shaq Mason they just restructured his contact today, so he's not going anyway. Wynn will be back in three weeks to replace Newhouse. Karras is obviously not their first choice, but with Andrews coming back next year, you're looking for a center on a cheap one year deal. Plus we know centers are basically the QB of the OLine in the Patriots system, so you'd need someone that can learn that. This isn't WR where you can add an extra guy and you use them some of the time when it suits your offenses needs.

Do you not believe Wynn is going to come back? I just want to understand where your upgrade will be.
 

Ale Xander

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This is probably worth much more than the pick considering they have a good boatload of late picks already. Sucks that he didn't get enough plays to live up to his potential but the way the defense is playing it shouldn't matter. Hope it doesn't cost them later.
 

Harry Hooper

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Can you suggest who you'd like to pick up? Or at the very least who you want to replace?

I don't think they have any plans or interest in replacing Thuney or Cannon. Shaq Mason they just restructured his contact today, so he's not going anyway. Wynn will be back in three weeks to replace Newhouse. Karras is obviously not their first choice, but with Andrews coming back next year, you're looking for a center on a cheap one year deal. Plus we know centers are basically the QB of the OLine in the Patriots system, so you'd need someone that can learn that. This isn't WR where you can add an extra guy and you use them some of the time when it suits your offenses needs.

Do you not believe Wynn is going to come back? I just want to understand where your upgrade will be.
I believe medical opinions are that there's a good chance Andrews never plays in the NFL again.
 

BigSoxFan

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Nice about the cap room, but man - Bennett is worth a 7th?
I’m honestly surprised nobody was willing to beat that. But from our standpoint, the difference is negligible. All about getting the cap space. And teams obviously knew he was on his way out, which probably suppressed his value a good deal.
 

54thMA

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Still, it's a bit surprising that they'd trade someone to a team that they're playing in 4 weeks.
You're talking about a guy who traded Bledsoe to a team he faces twice a year; Belichick does not care.

Good riddance, knew he was a goner when he got suspended for a game, buh bye.
 

BaseballJones

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Fine with the trade.

Until there’s an injury and it becomes clear that the Pats really could use him.

But right now, OL and TE are bigger priorities and I hope this cap space allows them to upgrade elsewhere.
 

DJnVa

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Can you suggest who you'd like to pick up? Or at the very least who you want to replace?
We had, almost literally, no cap space available. We need cap space in case someone gets hurt, not just to go get someone now.


Until there’s an injury and it becomes clear that the Pats really could use him.
Yes, if there's an injury at his position we might miss him. However, if there was an injury at any other position we could not afford anyone to fill in.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yes, if there's an injury at his position we might miss him. However, if there was an injury at any other position we could not afford anyone to fill in.
And if my uncle had balls, he'd be my aunt
 

lexrageorge

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Can you suggest who you'd like to pick up? Or at the very least who you want to replace?

I don't think they have any plans or interest in replacing Thuney or Cannon. Shaq Mason they just restructured his contact today, so he's not going anyway. Wynn will be back in three weeks to replace Newhouse. Karras is obviously not their first choice, but with Andrews coming back next year, you're looking for a center on a cheap one year deal. Plus we know centers are basically the QB of the OLine in the Patriots system, so you'd need someone that can learn that. This isn't WR where you can add an extra guy and you use them some of the time when it suits your offenses needs.

Do you not believe Wynn is going to come back? I just want to understand where your upgrade will be.
If the Pats were to pick up anyone on the OL, it would likely be a swing player that could provide depth and an upgrade over Newhouse. Bedard was speculating that Mason has been nursing an injury, and he did miss a practice this week, so some depth on the line wouldn't be the worst thing, even with Wynn coming back.

A center would be ideal, but for the reasons you noted unlikely to be found.
 

Super Nomario

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If the Pats were to pick up anyone on the OL, it would likely be a swing player that could provide depth and an upgrade over Newhouse.
I think it would be kind of weird to do this now with Wynn eligible to return to practice next week. The time to upgrade Newhouse would have been a month ago. And they already traded for an extra depth guy in Cunningham.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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We had, almost literally, no cap space available. We need cap space in case someone gets hurt, not just to go get someone now.
I was in no way questioning the need for a the Bennett trade, it's pretty clear they need to clear salary and that he's not a major part of their plans as a result of the scheme change that occurred after they acquired him. More of a response to all the people that keep saying they want to upgrade/improve the Offensive Line now that we have cap space.

If the Pats were to pick up anyone on the OL, it would likely be a swing player that could provide depth and an upgrade over Newhouse. Bedard was speculating that Mason has been nursing an injury, and he did miss a practice this week, so some depth on the line wouldn't be the worst thing, even with Wynn coming back.

A center would be ideal, but for the reasons you noted unlikely to be found.
I agree with Super Nomario on this. The Patriots made a number of moves for these swing players. They acquired Korey Cunningham, Jermaine Eluemunor and Russell Bodine all via trades over the course of two days. They signed Newhouse a week later. They signed Caleb Benenoch, when Wynn hit IR and waived him two weeks later. Out of all of these moves they've made the decision that Newhouse is their guy until Wynn gets back. And frankly, he's the only possible position that you could upgrade anyway.

The one other potential offensive line help that could be in the mix is this years 3rd round pick, Yodny Cajuste. He was a left tackle all through college for West Virginia, battled some injuries his freshman and sophomore seasons, but was a second team Big 12 his junior year and first team as well as co-offensive lineman of the year his senior season. He started the season on with the Non-Football Injury designation, and was eligible to return to practice last week. The Patriots have six weeks (now five) to decide whether to have him begin practicing, and then similar to Harry would then have 21 days to activate him or have him finish the season on the NFI list. He would not count as one of their IR return slots. I would say it's unlikely that we see Cajuste this season given that he appears to still not be physically ready, but there's a small chance that he could come back healthy in that swing position and they still have five more weeks before needing to make that determination.
 

lexrageorge

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Those are all good points regarding OL upgrade. However, the difference is that sometimes players do become available close to the trade deadline that were not available previously, and Belichick isn't one to let past decisions guide what should be done today going forward.

Let me clarify: I'm not expecting the Pats to go out and trade for an OL, as they are probably done at this point anyway, and if not they probably view TE as a more critical position to upgrade, especially with Wynn coming back soon. But I don't believe the probability is an absolute zero either.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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Those are all good points regarding OL upgrade. However, the difference is that sometimes players do become available close to the trade deadline that were not available previously, and Belichick isn't one to let past decisions guide what should be done today going forward.

Let me clarify: I'm not expecting the Pats to go out and trade for an OL, as they are probably done at this point anyway, and if not they probably view TE as a more critical position to upgrade, especially with Wynn coming back soon. But I don't believe the probability is an absolute zero either.
Agree completely with your points, and earlier post which was more detailed than most. Additional injuries (to a starter like Mason) would continue to change the calculus.

I just find the 30 posts a day of "we should upgrade the OL" frustrating without any suggestions of who might be a fit or what we should be targeting. For WR upgrades, people talked about Sanu, Sanders, Amendola (and even AJ Green) before the Sanu deal was made with reasonable discussion about who would fit in best, salary implications and why would their team have any interest in trading them. We're having the same discussions around Hooper, Howard, Engram and even Derek Carrier at the Tight End spot. I think these are educating and valuable discussions. OLine talk mostly breaks down to "The Patriots lose when they can't protect Brady, and the line doesn't look good. Let's bring someone in!".
 

Cornboy14

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What hurts is that they gave Bennett a reworked contract this spring, and a $4mm signing bonus.

Between Bennett and Brown, they've done some poor bonuses.
 

Van Everyman

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What hurts is that they gave Bennett a reworked contract this spring, and a $4mm signing bonus.

Between Bennett and Brown, they've done some poor bonuses.
Wouldn't the bigger mistake have been passing on Collins--or using him incorrectly--to accommodate Bennett? The AB thing was a gamble that didn't pay off. But Bennett was insurance for losing Flowers. You don't always need insurance -- but it's always smart to have.
 

Jimbodandy

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Wouldn't the bigger mistake have been passing on Collins--or using him incorrectly--to accommodate Bennett? The AB thing was a gamble that didn't pay off. But Bennett was insurance for losing Flowers. You don't always need insurance -- but it's always smart to have.
Board ate my longwinded post.

Nobody did anything wrong with Bennett. Not him and not Bill. The team pivoted, and it's working like gangbusters.

Bill will spend the money when a need arises. They don't need to do anything with it yet. But if suddenly we're short bodies somewhere, then he can act.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Wouldn't the bigger mistake have been passing on Collins--or using him incorrectly--to accommodate Bennett? The AB thing was a gamble that didn't pay off. But Bennett was insurance for losing Flowers. You don't always need insurance -- but it's always smart to have.
I think Bill must view this as addition by subtraction. His method only works if you have the right guys in the room. He needs guys like Terrence Brooks to work their asses off all week and learn the game plan even with little chance of seeing snaps. That’s possibly why Bill is the first off the sideline to slap Brooks on the helmet when he gets a pick.

How many public one game disciplinary suspensions can you recall under Belichick? We think this one was playing time related, right? That is just a square peg in a round hole in this locker room. Maybe Bill would be an even better coach if he were more player friendly. It’s hard to imagine, but who knows? And it’s a good question as players get more and more control through the NFLPA and direct fan social media interaction, whether Bill can adapt or whether the pool of guys willing to do it his way will diminish.

But for now, this is what it is, and the risk is that you lose a guy like Bennett. It will hurt if he becomes needed in the future but we actually should feel lucky that it is just depth and a few million in cap space.
 

joe dokes

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How many public one game disciplinary suspensions can you recall under Belichick? We think this one was playing time related, right? That is just a square peg in a round hole in this locker room. Maybe Bill would be an even better coach if he were more player friendly. It’s hard to imagine, but who knows? And it’s a good question as players get more and more control through the NFLPA and direct fan social media interaction, whether Bill can adapt or whether the pool of guys willing to do it his way will diminish.
The bolded is interesting to me. Some players will "control" their way out of town solely for money. But I think there are many who, cognizant of their likely short careers or who are late-career, will try to force their way out of losing situations (whether by tanking or incompetence). There's a growing number of players who seem less interested in sacrificing their health for a directionless (or worse) franchise. So I think it's also a good question whether more players exercising control means more good players for BB just because he and the team have their shit so together. I'm not suggesting there aren't other franchises that are attractive for this reason. But I think it goes to how much (or little) BB has to adapt. Chris Long dealt with it. Bennett less so.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The bolded is interesting to me. Some players will "control" their way out of town solely for money. But I think there are many who, cognizant of their likely short careers or who are late-career, will try to force their way out of losing situations (whether by tanking or incompetence). There's a growing number of players who seem less interested in sacrificing their health for a directionless (or worse) franchise. So I think it's also a good question whether more players exercising control means more good players for BB just because he and the team have their shit so together. I'm not suggesting there aren't other franchises that are attractive for this reason. But I think it goes to how much (or little) BB has to adapt. Chris Long dealt with it. Bennett less so.
Yeah, I can see two sides. You make a good point. It's really hard to know without being in that world, since it's such a unique world.

My instinct is that power dynamics are changing in the NFL and that the next great coach might find a way to make it work in a less hierarchical way. I know that this kind of goes against conventional wisdom and the way things have been done for many many years, and so it's very clear that I could be wrong. The Pete Carroll approach has some downsides and you definitely cannot run any organization of 100 people by committee -- especially where many of the employees have more job security and make more money than the boss. And you need someone to manage a very very competitive group of players. But there's always more than one way to run a railroad. Perhaps the NFL will, after the Patriots dynasty, just revert to one-off parity peaks and valleys, but I tend to think someone will be an innovator the way Belichick has been, and when I wonder what kind of innovation makes sense in the mid-21st Century, you could imagine some coach who finds way to be more progressive. And, whatever it is, you can almost guarantee that it will turn our stomachs -- just the way that all innovation tends to turn the stomachs of the old guard who have gotten used to something. (I should note that when it comes to innovation in a changing game -- Belichick is actually the master. I'm more talking about innovations in how staff and players relate.)

It just feels to me as though there may be a bit of a paradigm shift underfoot, that I'm not sure Belichick could or would want to incorporate. I think it's more than a few years away, though, so it probably doesn't make any difference for him. But for present purposes, where you have to commit substantial resources limited by the cap to individual players, my way or the highway is always going to be a bit risky.
 

lexrageorge

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I don't agree that Bennett's situation signals any sea change among the player/coach dynamic.

At the end of the day, Bennett is 34, and is long past his Pro Bowl days. The Pats are not going to change up their scheme to accommodate him at this stage of his career. Nor are they going to give him playing time over guys who are playing better than him. Bennett obviously had problems with the situation, and clearly went too far with his position coach. Belichick is far more likely to lose the locker room by letting such things go than by stepping in and imposing discipline (one of the lessons from 2009)
 

Cotillion

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Was it here or somewhere else I read that Belichick made sure the coaches weren't in the first class seats on chartered planes (pre the Pats buying their own planes)?

Chris Long was talking about this aspect of Belichick on a podcast recently. Long said players note stuff like that and appreciate it. Belichick is a players coach. Just not a players coach in the terms I think most people ascribe to the words.

He always heaps the praise on the players. Victories are theirs.
He always takes public blame on things not going well. Losses are a failure of his not to prepare the team. The players not being put in a position to win by the coaches.
You always know you have a shot at playing if you follow the 4 mantras of the team even if you are random UDFA or a 1st round pick.

And a bunch of other stuff.
 

lexrageorge

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+1. I have yet to hear Belichick call out a player on his team for a mistake. After a tough loss he will sometimes say "we need to play better, take care of the ball better, coach better. That's everyone in the room" and leaves it at that. Very few coaches seem willing to follow that model.

Internally, players may get an earful. But that's at least kept internal, and players do seem to respect that.

Same goes with players that are traded away.