David Ortiz writes for the Players Tribune

soxhop411

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http://www.theplayerstribune.com/david-ortiz-on-the-record/

In some peoples minds, I will always be considered a cheater. And thats bullshit. Mark my words: Nobody in MLB history has been tested for PEDs more than me. You know how many times Ive been tested since 2004? More than 80. They say these tests are random. If its really random, I should start playing the damn lottery. Some people still think the testing is a joke. Its no joke. Ten times a season these guys come into the clubhouse or my home with their briefcases. I have never failed a single one of those tests and I never will.
 

JohntheBaptist

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 “Papi, how come you walk around the bases so slow when you hit a home run? How come you flip your bat like that? Don’t you think that’s disrespectful to celebrate?”
 
Yeah, I’m gonna have fun. It’s who I am. I just hit a baseball 500 damn feet. I grew up in the gutter and now I’m out here in front of the world living my dream and you all want me to feel sad? I can’t do it. I’m here to bring joy to this game.
 
 
My man.
 

JohntheBaptist

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Sorry, one more this is amazing:
 
In 2013, I came off the DL and started hot. My first 20 games I was hitting like .400. And the reporter with the red jheri curl from The Boston Globe comes into the locker room says, “You’re from the Dominican. You’re older. You fit the profile of a steroid user. Don’t you think you’re a prime suspect?”
 
 

Tyrone Biggums

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You have to love the shot he took at CHB. Glad to see its not only us who can spot the troll. Ortiz I don't believe used. So this article is nice to see.
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

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Yeah, the slam on CHB was great.  Carl Everett don't know much 'bout history, but he knew a weasel when he saw one.
 
I wonder if someone like Ortiz would ever consider suing the MLBPA (or would have any grounds on which to sue) to get them to release the full results of that 2003 test, or at least, to release the results of any particular player at their own request.  His character is being defamed, and someone within that organization must have leaked it almost by definition - vicarious liability and all.
 

soxhop411

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MentalDisabldLst said:
Yeah, the slam on CHB was great.  Carl Everett don't know much 'bout history, but he knew a weasel when he saw one.
 
I wonder if someone like Ortiz would ever consider suing the MLBPA (or would have any grounds on which to sue) to get them to release the full results of that 2003 test, or at least, to release the results of any particular player at their own request.  His character is being defamed, and someone within that organization must have leaked it almost by definition - vicarious liability and all.
Im guessing he would wait until he retires.
 

Sampo Gida

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I am pretty surprised that MLB sends collectors on unannounced visits to players homes, especially abroad, and more surprised that MLBPA agreed to this.  It seems more likely that they would confirm the player is at home and arrange a visit.  I thought I had read somehwere awhile ago that they gave 7 days notice to report for a collection.  Would like more information on this if anyone has it.  JDA does say unannounced, and maybe because they only do 350 per offseason they can do it..
 
 
MentalDisabldLst said:
Yeah, the slam on CHB was great.  Carl Everett don't know much 'bout history, but he knew a weasel when he saw one.
 
I wonder if someone like Ortiz would ever consider suing the MLBPA (or would have any grounds on which to sue) to get them to release the full results of that 2003 test, or at least, to release the results of any particular player at their own request.  His character is being defamed, and someone within that organization must have leaked it almost by definition - vicarious liability and all.
 
Well, supposedly a court order from the BALCO case prevents them from releasing it, or at least prevented them in 2009.  Not sure if that court order is still active or not given Balco is over with.  However, I would think that  if there were any paperwork that confirmed Papi did not test positive, it would have leaked out by now.   I doubt very much that anyone in the MLBPA leaked the original report on Papi.  I believe it was lawyers who had access to the documents who leaked it (who also leaked Arod and Manny's name).  Below is MLBPA statement in 2009
 
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/08/mlbpa_statement.html
 
The interesting thing is in 2004 MLBPA had contacted every player on the list  (104 players ) to warn them the list was in the governments hands, yet Papi was surprised by the revelation in 2009, which suggests he was not contacted or that he is a good actor . 
 
In 2006 Papi in his book Papi said steroids were so prevalent in the DR he may have inadvertantly taken them by accident.
 
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3890785
 
And given that 12 of the 13 players caught up in Biogenesis were Latino along with Papis claim in 2006, it seems CHB profiling is not that wild.
 
Papi should learn to let sleeping dogs lie 
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Sampo Gida said:
And given that 12 of the 13 players caught up in Biogenesis were Latino along with Papis claim in 2006, it seems CHB profiling is not that wild.
 
Papi should learn to let sleeping dogs lie 
And given that several of the most notorious PED cheaters like Bonds and Clemens are not Latino, it seems CHB profiling is entirely objectionable.

It's hardly a sleeping dog if this issue is going to keep Papi out of the Hall of Fame. Less has kept Piazza out so far. If I were Ortiz I'd do everything in my power to try to clear my name.
 

Otis Foster

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"Papi should learn to let sleeping dogs lie"

That's about the only comment I can agree with.

Profiling is rotten at its core. It denies the individuality of each group member and makes an ethnicity based (in this case) assumption about the common behavior of otherwise very different individuals. In this case, it also conflates the behavior of someone who may have juiced for a very short while with the Clemens and Bonds of this world.

As for the Boston sports press, much of it also less reporting than agitation. That's a generalization that does withstand scrutiny. They feed off one another's provocations. CHB is like the asshole who stands outside a fenced yard and pokes a sharp stick at the German Shepherd on the other side, then complains to animal control about the dangerous animal next door.
 

touchstone033

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If it’s legal, ballplayers take it. Why? Because if you make it to the World Series, you play 180 games. Really think about that for a second. 180 games. Your kids could be sick, your wife could be yelling at you, your dad could be dying — nobody cares. Nobody cares if you have a bone bruise in your wrist or if you have a pulled groin. You’re an entertainer. The people want to see you hit a 95-mile-an-hour fastball over a damn 37-foot wall.
 
Loved that bit.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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The "I've passed x number of tests" defense is straight from the Lance Armstrong playbook.

I agree that Papi is best off just letting sleeping dogs lie on this one, as Sampo Gida said. You can't prove you didn't do it so why raise it as an issue?
 

jimv

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Damned if he does, Damned if he doesn't. If he's accused and does not defend himself many people will consider that a sign of guilt. And if he does defend himself he's running the Lance Armstrong playbook. What action would you recommend?
 

TheoShmeo

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People who are convinced that Papi was cheating in 2003 and is still likely cheating will not be swayed by this article.
 
But people who were on the fence very well might be.
 
Perhaps I am naive but I think I have a pretty good BS Meter and I believe Ortiz.  Now maybe he is a little delusional and has reason to know he was taking PEDs in 2003.  But I believe him.  And I'm glad that he clearly and without any equivocation declares that he never intentionally cheated.
 

timlinin8th

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jimv said:
Damned if he does, Damned if he doesn't. If he's accused and does not defend himself many people will consider that a sign of guilt. And if he does defend himself he's running the Lance Armstrong playbook. What action would you recommend?
This. Personally, I will always be in favor of athletes speaking candidly as I find the generic canned responses that have become the de facto standard (understandably so) to be one of the sports world's greatest losses - the lack of personality that athletes are allowed to show lest someone gets their panties in a bunch about what they said. I'd rather him speak out about this topic, and if in the future he gets proved a liar then he can deal with that shame. And by "proof" I mean more than CHB saying he's Dominican so he had to do it, but if he fails a test now moving forward articles like this will be rightfully scrutinized.
 

Number45forever

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The Lance Armstrong playbook is also the playbook that someone who actually never did take steroids would call plays from.  The problem with Lance is that he was lying for a solid decade and that makes those plays fall apart.  I believe Papi and will keep believing him.  If it turns out he's lying, he'll pay the price.  But I don't think he is.
 

drbretto

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I don't think it's a sleeping dog at all. 
 
Papi is making his campaign push for the HoF. He's got a movie out, he's got people on ESPN and MLB network talking about his final year and whether or not he'll have a farewell tour like Jeter and Rivera, etc and there's this one nagging question in the back of some of these writer's minds. He's nipping that shit in the bud, and I applaud him for it. 
 
He's always been like this. He has always spoken from the heart and shot from the hip. He's been outspoken about whatever is on his mind. So, this one potential roadblock on his way to the HoF is cheating alegations and he's like no, no, no, let me tell you what happened here, before you all just keep making up your own shit.
 
I love it. 
 

jimbobim

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Yeah Gordo essentially ran the " let sleeping dogs lie piece we can always doubt you if we want" piece for ESPN last night. For me the only part of Ortiz's story that doesn't pass the bs test is that he doesn't know/have a good guess of what over the counter supplement he took that caused him to end up on that list. But again it doesn't make sense for him to speculate if they won't even tell him or allow him to see the documents. 
 
Other then that though the sanctimony the baseball writers have as the arbiters of good and evil in  baseball is beyond appalling. This article shows Ortiz is pissed that the writers get to essentially keep him from being honored for a suspicion of something that gets him lumped in with the worst violators of the game with really no evidence to back it up at all. Meanwhile , many of these same writers now have no problem giving Rose some type of pass for gambling , which in my mind (know it;s debatable),  is a far worse transgression. I also think eventually the HOF is going to have address how they deal with steroid linked players. As in if they were sanctioned or banned by the league they can't get in otherwise grow up baseball writers and recognize what some of these great players did for the game. 
 
Once he retires I wouldn't be surprised at all if he pursues some type of legal action about that list because it's very unbelievable that MLB doesn't have it somewhere in a locked box in NY.  
 

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drbretto said:
I don't think it's a sleeping dog at all. 
 
Papi is making his campaign push for the HoF. He's got a movie out, he's got people on ESPN and MLB network talking about his final year and whether or not he'll have a farewell tour like Jeter and Rivera, etc and there's this one nagging question in the back of some of these writer's minds. He's nipping that shit in the bud, and I applaud him for it. 
 
He's always been like this. He has always spoken from the heart and shot from the hip. He's been outspoken about whatever is on his mind. So, this one potential roadblock on his way to the HoF is cheating alegations and he's like no, no, no, let me tell you what happened here, before you all just keep making up your own shit.
 
I love it. 
 
Yep.
 
I mean, look, this is who Papi is. It's what makes him the player he is. He's the kinda guy who writes stuff like this.
 
If this weren't who he is, then maybe the Red Sox are light a few championships. Give'em hell, Papi!!
 

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
The "I've passed x number of tests" defense is straight from the Lance Armstrong playbook.

I agree that Papi is best off just letting sleeping dogs lie on this one, as Sampo Gida said. You can't prove you didn't do it so why raise it as an issue?
Because the PEDs Cloud really bothers him and he needs to try to convince us to let it dissipate. 
 
It may not be tactically the best play but my guess is that Papi needs to make this effort from time to time for his mental well being.  "I have to do SOMETHING!"
 

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Sampo Gida said:
The interesting thing is in 2004 MLBPA had contacted every player on the list  (104 players ) to warn them the list was in the governments hands, yet Papi was surprised by the revelation in 2009, which suggests he was not contacted or that he is a good actor . 
 
In 2006 Papi in his book Papi said steroids were so prevalent in the DR he may have inadvertantly taken them by accident.
 
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3890785
 
And given that 12 of the 13 players caught up in Biogenesis were Latino along with Papis claim in 2006, it seems CHB profiling is not that wild.
 
Papi should learn to let sleeping dogs lie 
 
In early 2005, after the news of the list, and rumours of who was on the list were leaked, BUT before Ortiz' name was linked to it, I vividly remember him expressing concern and frustration about what he perceived as a complete lack of awareness and consideration by MLB of the language and cultural differences and barriers facing many of the Latino players.  He claimed that many of the relevant materials then were not in Spanish, nor were the sufficient Spanish-speaking advisors, MLB trainers or medical professionals or executives to clearly explain what was permissible and not, and the fact that there may be banned substances in supplements bought over the counter.  As I recall, he became a strong advocate for the changes in that regard which were eventually implemented. He wasn't making excuses for the failure to comply, but explaining that the reasons for the failure to do so may have more to do with language and culture, than a willful attempt to circumvent the system and its rules.
 
I cannot find a link to the article I remember, but in case interested in this aspect of the issue, have linked below a few other articles from back then and a few quotes.  I also note, as at least one of the article indicates, that not all Latino players necessarily agreed with David's assessment of whose responsibility it was to overcome those challenges.
 
http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues2/2005/vol09n19/Steroids.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2763194
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2005-05-06-latin-steroids_x.htm
I think people should take that into consideration," says Lino Diaz, the Cleveland Indians assistant director of player development and Latin American operations. "There's a level of, let's call it non-awareness, or a lack of an education. Before we start judging or blaming them for things, we need to find out what's going on."
 
This week, the Boston Herald quoted Boston Red Sox designated hitter David Ortiz, a native of the Dominican Republic, as saying, "Think about a guy who can't really talk or read. I'm not making excuses for those guys. But I think they would prefer if someone talked to them (in Spanish) ... You might think everyone's got the message, but they don't."
 
How to explain it? Should we blame it on the "buscones" (pronounced boo-SCONE-ehs), baseball street agents, some of whom are suspected of starting teenage prospects on steroids to improve their ability to sell them to pro scouts? On tainted supplements and a government that allows banned drugs to be bought over the counter? On a lack of education about doping rules?
 
All of the above?
 
Money, no doubt, plays an important role. The annual per-capita income in the Dominican Republic hovers around $2,500, so the lure of a big pro contract is strong. It's the golden ticket off this steamy, sun-baked island. Kids grow up dreaming of becoming the next Vladimir Guerrero, the next Albert Pujols, the next David Ortiz.
 
When Pedro Martinez eases into the Mets' complex of meticulously groomed diamonds while driving his racy orange Dodge Charger one afternoon, his arrival has the feel of a papal visit. Julio Franco reaches inside Martinez's car and grabs a wad of U.S. dollar bills, and tosses them to the delirious crowd. Just outside the idyllic compound, though, is the real life of a dirt road lined with single-room tin shacks, with chickens and scrawny dogs roaming the shoulder and kids in their underwear playing in mud from a late-morning downpour.
 
 

trekfan55

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For me, the problem that Ortiz has with CHB is that he approached him in 2013, when testing was almost 10 years old, and after he has been tested a bajillion times (and he does leave a subtle hint when he says "if the tests are random then I need to buy the lottery").  It is this case that makes CHB nothing but a troll. 
 
Ortiz also should have a right to know what he tested positive for in 2003, if he did.  Those papers are crucial.  It is one thing to have tested positive in 2009 (Manny) or the Braun case which was thrown out for chain of custody issues.  Quite another to say that Ortiz was on a list of substances that were tested, we have no idea which.  And BTW they actually test blood as well as urine?
 
This feels similar to the Romanian gymnast that was stripped of her gold medal for taking a cold medicine (given to her by her team doctor no less) which contained a banned ingredient.  At least in her case, she knew exactly what she tested positive for, the substance is no longer banned, and she is still in the process of trying to get her medal back.
 

drbretto

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Everything to do with those tests and everything before 2003, Red Sox related or not, gets a pass for me anyway. That's not what that test was for. It was to determine if something needed to be done. It worked and something has been done. I'm more than willing to give Ortiz the benefit of the doubt, but even if I thought he was stone-cold guilty of sticking steroid needles in his butt, I don't care. That's the atmosphere that was prevalent at that time in baseball. That's on everyone and steps have been taken to clean it up.
 
This includes literally everyone to me. Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, everyone. I'm free, as a fan, to dislike them both still because they're assholes who took their useage to such ridiculous levels that the world had to pay attention, but I'm not going to call any of them cheaters. 
 
While I'm neither alone nor part of the majority with that attitude towards this, I do think the overall shock and outrage over anything to do with these tests is all but over. If Ortiz didn't genuinely believe that he was as innocent as he says then he wouldn't have opened his mouth. I believe him. 
 
Even the part about him suggesting it may have been a supplement from the DR back then vs a GNC today. That, to me, strikes me as a man trying to figure out an explanation, not changing his story. And that comes from experience.
 
& or 8 years ago, I was working at this shitty carwash that had been taken over by a new company. That new Company worked us to the bone for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week while we renovated everything and gave away free car washes to everyone for a month. One day, $3000 in cash went missing and those $3000 were my responsibility (it shouldn't have been, long story short, but it was). I had no idea what happened to the money. I was so exhausted that I literally could not pick out one day from the next. I was picked up and questioned by the police (that was brutal, let me tell you) and every single person who knew me would tell me to just confess to stealing the money so we could move on. The evidence certainly pointed to me, to the point that I was almost convinced by everyone else that I actually DID steal it and just blocked it from my memory.
 
I have to tell you, unless you've been through it, you have no idea what it feels like to be accused of a crime you didn't commit and the idea of people sitting back on their chairs trying to judging you without a fucking clue as to what happened is so utterly infuriating that I can't even describe it. But during that time, I probably came up with a dozen or so possible scenarios for what had happened. If I was a public figure, I could easily see the whole world just assuming I was guilty and taking those different stories and parsing them, saying I was changing my tune, etc. 
 
So, don't be that guy (this not to anyone in particular). Especially for OUR fucking Ortiz. He says he didn't do it and there's no real evidence that he did, that's it. 
 

grimshaw

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I liked the inside scoop, the stuff about how often he's tested and how much he wanted to kill Dan Shaugnessy.
All that said-I don't give a shit if he used PED's or not at this point, I just don't want to hear about it or him touting his HoF chances anymore.
No one is going to remember this article in 6-7 years when his candidacy comes up. 
 

drbretto

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They won't need to. It's about his image right now. His best interest is to keep having ESPN and MLB Network personalities talking about him like he is a sure-bet Hall of Famer, like they are already doing.
 

Van Everyman

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I'm surprised this passage hasn't gotten more attention:

In 2003, MLB wanted to measure what players were taking and figure out some kind of standard. We all got tested and MLB sealed the results. The next year, they said, “Okay, you can’t take any pills with this, this and this,” — all kinds of stuff that was previously in supplements that anybody could buy. They used our tests to figure out what should be considered a performance-enhancer. Okay. Fine. Great. Clean it up. I love it. Shit, if you catch someone taking PEDs now that we all know the rules and have been educated about what’s in these supplements, forget 25, 50 games. Suspend them for an entire year. I don’t care, because I’m not doing it.
This is a slightly different but important interpretation of what the 2003 testing regimen was designed to accomplish. Historically, it's been reported as a test to "measure the scope of cheating" – or, how many players were using PEDs. If it was over the 5% threshold, then a formal testing regimen would be triggered.

Ortiz is saying something else: that the league was using the baseline of the 2003 tests to understand what PEDs players were even using (knowingly or not) and then to develop a standard and the attendant warnings.

The distinction is important in that it lends a lot more weight to the "I bought this over the counter" argument we've heard from players like Ortiz who, perhaps understandably, want to separate themselves from the guys who tested positive after the official policy was in place and when, in his view, there was really no excuse anymore.

Essentially Papi wants credit for playing the vast majority of his career clean, as far as the tests are concerned anyway. As important, he feels like any positive test he may have triggered before the testing regimen was more MLB's fault for not having a real standard in place upon which to basis any test.
 

Reverend

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In the future, we would prefer that links to articles have attribution to the author.

Many of our members don't want to read, click to, look at, or otherwise think about that guy.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: It's also just a good practice, for message boarding and for life.
 

Rasputin

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Van Everyman said:
 
That was pretty tame, actually.
 
I've got no real problem with either of them misremembering details. People's memories are fallable. I have no problem believing Papi resented the question, but went through with the discussion anyway because that's what team leaders do. And I have no problem believing his anger at the question colored his memory of the facts.
 
Big fucking deal.
 
I also don't really have any doubt that the important things are true. That he wasn't ever told what he tested positive for. That he never knowingly took steroids. That he's pissed off at a guy who if he isn't actually racist, is a remarkable simulation.
 
Also, can the season just fucking start already?
 

jimbobim

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Shaughnessy's a blow hard, but he's right in that article.
 
Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez were other names “leaked” from the 2003 testing. They turned out to be dirty. We can go back to Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Marion Jones, and Lance Armstrong. Everyone is all about denials — until it turns out to be true. Are we supposed to believe that you are the one and only positive tester who was truly wronged?
That’s all for now, David. You are one of the great performers in the history of Boston, and you have done tons for our community. Boston sports fans love you on a par with Ted Williams, Bill Russell, Tom Brady, Larry Bird, and Bobby Orr. You can do no wrong. You deserve their love.
I am sorry we don’t talk anymore, but as ever, you know where to find me. In the clubhouse.
DAN SHAUGHNESS
 
The fact that he walks around as a scribe of the Red Sox after writing this garbage is gross to me. Newsflash Dan the in 2003 they were establishing a standard so the leak to the Times after not only violated what MLB assured the players it also ignores the fact that andro or whatever supplementwas not banned by baseball until later . I  would make his life as difficult as possible if I were the Red Sox rather then paying him to doggedly tear down one of the best to wear the jersey which he admits. Go to Kansas City CHB you excrement. 
 
Edit 
He also picks up the NBC report and accuses him of cheating again due to the number of times he's tested. I'd pay money to see the "eat shit and die" look Ortiz throws his way tomorrow. 
 

Van Everyman

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There is no Rev said:
In the future, we would prefer that links to articles have attribution to the author.

Many of our members don't want to read, click to, look at, or otherwise think about that guy.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: It's also just a good practice, for message boarding and for life.
I normally do add attribution in my message boarding (perhaps less in life) but was trying to be a bit clever. But have since edited to reflect that it was not.