David Ortiz will retire at end of 2016 season.

Buzzkill Pauley

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FWIW, after that last ground-rule double, I am going to consider today the day Papi hit for the cycle, just like I consider Pedro to have thrown a no-hitter as an Expo on June 3, 1995.

Not recognized in the rulebook, but recognized in the heart.
 

chrisfont9

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FWIW, after that last ground-rule double, I am going to consider today the day Papi hit for the cycle, just like I consider Pedro to have thrown a no-hitter as an Expo on June 3, 1995.

Not recognized in the rulebook, but recognized in the heart.
Yep. I was listening but finally saw a replay. He was coming into 2b when they cut back to him just as the ball went into the stands. I'd say he had an 80% chance of a triple there if it stays in play. [Numbers may not be accurate.]
 

TFisNEXT

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Ortiz leads the majors now with a .684 SLG and a 1.092 OPS.
 

timlinin8th

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I don't even have the slightest idea how to describe how locked in he is now.
He intentionally hit that final ball to the 420 to try and get the cycle. It was some crazy angle nonsense that prevented it from happening, from where he was when the ball hopped out of play he could have moonwalked to third.

Other players dream of being able to even accidentally do what David Ortiz is doing on purpose. We're watching a man amongst boys.
 

E5 Yaz

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Ortiz was greeted by a jubilant dugout that was a bit more crowded than normal.

“We have the tunnel where everyone goes because the dugout is so small,” he said. “Sometimes the guys watch it from in there. When I hit that ball, everyone came out of the dugout telling me to keep going. They said they were so disappointed when the ball went into the stands. It is the kind of moment where you have to try. You are up by three runs in the [eighth] inning -- you hope to hit a triple.”

***

While a cycle would have been special for Ortiz, he was able to see the positives in being forced to stay at second base.

“When I hit it, it wasn’t on my mind, but when I went around first base and I saw everybody going crazy, I was like, ‘Oh, I better get going.’ But things happen for a reason,” he said. “I don’t need to hit a triple. Take a minute. You don’t want to try to overdo things and then all of a sudden something happens.”


http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/49288/david-ortiz-still-missing-one-thing-from-list-of-accomplishments
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

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The other part of that article (bolded below) that I've been thinking about and dreading. I really hope he doesn't feel like he needs to take part in the HR contest. He's got more important things to accomplish this season.
Ortiz’s teammates also don’t need rarities to be amazed by their teammate. As he forges toward another All-Star appearance, perhaps a Home Run Derby berth and possibly being a central figure in MVP debates, Ortiz leaves an impression simply by going about his business.
 

chrisfont9

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The other part of that article (bolded below) that I've been thinking about and dreading. I really hope he doesn't feel like he needs to take part in the HR contest. He's got more important things to accomplish this season.
He's pretty self-aware, and kind of does what he wants, so I'd say he's very unlikely to do the HR contest. Not that I have any idea what goes into deciding but I'm sure he'll be conscious of his body. He's not the best guy for it anyway, he doesn't really hit tape-measure shots that I can recall. He's just always making hard contact. I'd much rather watch Carlos Correa in the HR contest than Papi.
 

JimD

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I wish people would just stop with the contract extension nonsense and just savor Ortiz's amazing final year. The guy is probably in pain every day and is leaving it all out there in an effort to go out on top and bring us Red Sox fans one more October to remember. The idea that he can sustain this for another year or two is wishful thinking at best. His 2009 struggles were miserable to watch and I'd rather he leave us wanting more than seeing injuries or a sad stumble mark the end of such a wonderful career.
 
Dec 21, 2015
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I wish people would just stop with the contract extension nonsense and just savor Ortiz's amazing final year. The guy is probably in pain every day and is leaving it all out there in an effort to go out on top and bring us Red Sox fans one more October to remember. The idea that he can sustain this for another year or two is wishful thinking at best. His 2009 struggles were miserable to watch and I'd rather he leave us wanting more than seeing injuries or a sad stumble mark the end of such a wonderful career.
The upside is so high, it seems, that I'm happy to take a risk on the downside (barring a complete breakdown of his batting abilities). I'm sure the Sox would as well. The real issue is his physical pain and wanting to be around his family more. The more I read from Papi, the more I think the only way an offer has a chance of being accepted by him is something along the lines of:

- You start the season whenever you're ready, a la Clemens and Pedro
- Take most road trips off, just play home games, unless you really feel up to it and want to go. Seriously, it's OK.
- We pay you per game played, but at a higher rate per game than your salary would normally imply, since you're taking away our financial risk.

If he really does have a renaissance season and ends up in the top 10 in OPS, I hope they'll make an offer like that with enough money attached to make it enticing. He'll have to rest up and make a decision in the new year regardless, but at least we'll be making a sincere attempt to accommodate him, his family time and his aching body.
 

dwainw

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The upside is so high, it seems, that I'm happy to take a risk on the downside (barring a complete breakdown of his batting abilities). I'm sure the Sox would as well. The real issue is his physical pain and wanting to be around his family more. The more I read from Papi, the more I think the only way an offer has a chance of being accepted by him is something along the lines of:

- You start the season whenever you're ready, a la Clemens and Pedro
- Take most road trips off, just play home games, unless you really feel up to it and want to go. Seriously, it's OK.
- We pay you per game played, but at a higher rate per game than your salary would normally imply, since you're taking away our financial risk.

If he really does have a renaissance season and ends up in the top 10 in OPS, I hope they'll make an offer like that with enough money attached to make it enticing. He'll have to rest up and make a decision in the new year regardless, but at least we'll be making a sincere attempt to accommodate him, his family time and his aching body.
Maybe a dumb question, but should the roster instability this would create factor into consideration of offering this sort of contract? Even assuming anything close to the production we're seeing this year (big assumption), who/what do you sacrifice in the way of positional flexibility? Either way, I'm begrudgingly coming around to the opinion of many that we should happily watch Ortiz ride into the sunset, preferably while hoisting a World Series trophy.

But more than anything, I wish the media (and I suppose, by proxy, fans themselves) would just stop asking him about it. Resist the impulse. There's no way he'd make that decision before the end of the season, anyway, and why should he? Plus, the ultimate success of the team this season would likely play an important role in a decision. Just let things play out as they will, enjoy the ride, and then badger the shit out of him in November if you must.
 
Dec 21, 2015
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Not a dumb question at all, far more likely that I'm making a dumb suggestion. I'm not sure anyone's ever done the "you can skip any road trips" thing before. It'd be lots of instability, but also a chance to try the 26th-40th players on our roster out periodically, because we'd have the most active pawtucket shuttle we've ever had. What you're sacrificing to get Big Papi ~50-70% of the time, then, is the 25th person on your roster - the 5th outfielder or 7th reliever - which instead of being one person most of the time, is a somewhat-rotating cast of characters who are either prospects you're giving brief cups of coffee too (serially, if need be), or fringe major leaguers who are just there to provide extra bodies in case of a blowout scoreline or injury. They're the lowest-leverage person on your roster, basically by definition. If you can give up some of the stability there in order to get Big Papi a more-than-trivial fraction of the time, I think you do it.

...if he's up for the idea, of course. Which he'd never decide before January unless it's to confirm he's not even interested in entertaining the idea.

So yeah, it's definitely important to enjoy the ride right now. Whether he comes around again for an encore performance is a problem for a future day.
 

Cumberland Blues

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How would you get Ortiz off the roster for road trips? I don't see the MLBPA approving a contract that allows a guy with that much service time to be optioned - and even if they did let it slide as a favor to Ortiz, the option has to be for ten days and there are a bunch of road trips shorter than that. So you either play w/ 24 on the road or lose Papi for the first few games of a bunch of home stands too.
 

Stitch01

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THis is all probably a fantasy, but Im not sure giving road games off would be feasible. A starting date in May and maybe a minor "injury" for a break around the all-star break could work. Of course, he'll be 41, its very possible he'll be bad if he plays and going out playing like this year (hopefully with a 4th ring) would be pretty perfect.
 

dwainw

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How would you get Ortiz off the roster for road trips? I don't see the MLBPA approving a contract that allows a guy with that much service time to be optioned - and even if they did let it slide as a favor to Ortiz, the option has to be for ten days and there are a bunch of road trips shorter than that. So you either play w/ 24 on the road or lose Papi for the first few games of a bunch of home stands too.
I was assuming such a plan would require you to give up your 25th player for road games. Seems worth considering in theory for a guy like Superma--err--Ortiz, but not practical in practice.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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I have to imagine at a minimum he plays all the road games at NYY and the Orioles do that gets him up close to 100 games from the get go in the proposed scenario. There are probably some other road games he would play that pushes the total games played up to the 110-120 range. Having him start in Mid to late May would accomplish the same number of games and seems much simpler. Considering the wear of travel on him he might lean towards the minimal road option if the Sox could figure it out.

As much as I want more Papi, if they win the World Series this year he should absolutely walk away.
 

vintage'67

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One potentially huge issue with the don't-go-on-the-road-scenario is that know one knows how all the breaks from facing live pitching would affect Papi's hitting. I'm not aware of any precedent for a hitter doing it over a season, so maybe it does not affect him, but it very well might.

This year, the Sox opened on the road for 7 days. (I'm including off days that are at the start, in the middle of or end of a road trip, because those are days he would not face live pitching.) After that, the trips are 4, 7,4, 7, 8, 7, 7 (this is 4 for the ASB then 3 in NY), 12, 11, 11, 11(including last 3 in NY). Even if the long trips are more evenly distributed throughout the season, there are some big gaps. Is it going to take him 1,2,3... days to get his swing back after an 11-day layoff? Under this plan, you might not get the Papi you expect, even if age does not catch up with him (not that you could ever know if it was the off days, age or both or other factors).
 

YTF

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So are we suggesting that the team play with a 2-3 man bench for 40-80 games per season or do they just needlessly burn up options by bringing up guys from the minors for every series that Papi takes off? This isn't the same as carrying a starting pitcher who doesn't really need to be with the team other than on the day he pitches IF that is an arrangement that the team is comfortable with. A starting pitcher's absence would not affect the team in any way other than perhaps being available to toss an inning in the in the rare occasion of a 19 inning game.
 

YTF

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One potentially huge issue with the don't-go-on-the-road-scenario is that know one knows how all the breaks from facing live pitching would affect Papi's hitting. I'm not aware of any precedent for a hitter doing it over a season, so maybe it does not affect him, but it very well might.

This year, the Sox opened on the road for 7 days. (I'm including off days that are at the start, in the middle of or end of a road trip, because those are days he would not face live pitching.) After that, the trips are 4, 7,4, 7, 8, 7, 7 (this is 4 for the ASB then 3 in NY), 12, 11, 11, 11(including last 3 in NY). Even if the long trips are more evenly distributed throughout the season, there are some big gaps. Is it going to take him 1,2,3... days to get his swing back after an 11-day layoff? Under this plan, you might not get the Papi you expect, even if age does not catch up with him (not that you could ever know if it was the off days, age or both or other factors).
Great point.
 

brs3

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"Okay, guys. Key series out on the west coast. My deal says I can stay home. Best of luck!" Can you imagine David Ortiz saying this? Can you actually believe him agreeing to not travel with the team?

Enjoy the magnificent display of hitting we're seeing. Enjoy the last of Big Papi. Tripping over yourselves justifying some sort of weird play-at-home deal is just not thinking clearly.
 
Jun 27, 2006
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Its possible changes to the CBA this year may make it somewhat feasible. I don't remember what show I heard it on, but I remember something about expanding rosters to 27, but only having 25 available to play in a game. I think, but am not possitive Lou Merloni was discussing it. Don't remember if this was just sports show BS or something actually being considered. The idea was to have an extra pitcher and position player available so as not to play slightly injured players who only need a few days off.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Its possible changes to the CBA this year may make it somewhat feasible. I don't remember what show I heard it on, but I remember something about expanding rosters to 27, but only having 25 available to play in a game. I think, but am not possitive Lou Merloni was discussing it. Don't remember if this was just sports show BS or something actually being considered. The idea was to have an extra pitcher and position player available so as not to play slightly injured players who only need a few days off.
Not sure what show you were listening to but I've never heard or seen that discussed anywhere and don't see why it would or should be done. You may be conflating it with a common talking point on September rosters expanding and the idea of allowing a team to call up as many guys as they want, but only a certain number are eligible for a given game.

Expanding to 27 but only allowing 25 active essentially accomplishes nothing, since your just deactivate the most recent two SPs every day. You might as well just expand rosters to 27. And given that most teams have trouble finding non fungible guys to fill out their 25 man as it is, I have trouble seeing the owners agreeing to two more major league minimum salary slots when the players don't have a chit in their pocket to offer in trade. Their main goal in this negotiation will be to get the luxury tax ceiling raised - which shouldn't be difficult given the rise in revenue and the bartered split - otherwise I'm failing to see anything significant happening.

If you feel strongly that that's what you heard discussed I'd be sincerely interested to see if you can find a link because it's something I'd be interested in seeing someone defend. As it is, I imagine you heard someone spitballing. I could certainly be wrong tho.
 
Jun 27, 2006
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Not sure what show you were listening to but I've never heard or seen that discussed anywhere and don't see why it would or should be done. You may be conflating it with a common talking point on September rosters expanding and the idea of allowing a team to call up as many guys as they want, but only a certain number are eligible for a given game.

Expanding to 27 but only allowing 25 active essentially accomplishes nothing, since your just deactivate the most recent two SPs every day. You might as well just expand rosters to 27. And given that most teams have trouble finding non fungible guys to fill out their 25 man as it is, I have trouble seeing the owners agreeing to two more major league minimum salary slots when the players don't have a chit in their pocket to offer in trade. Their main goal in this negotiation will be to get the luxury tax ceiling raised - which shouldn't be difficult given the rise in revenue and the bartered split - otherwise I'm failing to see anything significant happening.

If you feel strongly that that's what you heard discussed I'd be sincerely interested to see if you can find a link because it's something I'd be interested in seeing someone defend. As it is, I imagine you heard someone spitballing. I could certainly be wrong tho.
I searched MLB expanding rosters to 27 and several came up. heres 2..

<a href="https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/03/21/time-for-baseball-expand-rosters/tARtvIe7GPGR9Bs7cfM8LI/story.html">LINK</a>

<a href="http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=6687005&columnist=crasnick_jerry">LINK</a>
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I'm gonna go ahead and not click on the first link because I'm assuming it's a Cafardo article, which may as well have come from my twelve year old niece.

Looking at the second, which is from five years ago, previous to the last renewal and i see quotes like

Sources said that expanding rosters from 25 to 26 is not a hot-button issue in baseball's halls of power, and that the subject has not been addressed in any meaningful way during labor talks between the commissioner's office and the players' association. But the union has had internal discussions about rules changes that might expand rosters for doubleheaders, so the initiative is not off the table completely.
One of the owners' main objections to increasing rosters is, of course, financial. The conventional wisdom is that the Marlins, Pirates, Royals and other small-market clubs would have no interest, even if it means paying that extra player the minimum salary of $414,000 a year.
So I'm not seeing a lot of groundswell. The quotes from managers, sure, they'd love to have another guy at their disposal but everyone would and the managers don't make those calls.

So, again, if you have reliable sources that say this is actually a topic being discussed with regard to the next cba, I'd love to see them. These two, however, are not that. If you have several, throw them out here. But again sources that actually say it's being discussed or proposed. Not some ass hat tossing ideas he'd like to see out there.

Edit: you know what, I went against better judgement and clicked on the globe link and just as I thought, it was a Cafardo piece. Holy shit that was painful. Same guy who rails weekly against the shift wants to add three roster spots. Never cite Nick Cafardo for anything. Except possibly an example of senility.
 
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Rovin Romine

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Its possible changes to the CBA this year may make it somewhat feasible. I don't remember what show I heard it on, but I remember something about expanding rosters to 27, but only having 25 available to play in a game. I think, but am not possitive Lou Merloni was discussing it. Don't remember if this was just sports show BS or something actually being considered. The idea was to have an extra pitcher and position player available so as not to play slightly injured players who only need a few days off.
Count me as firmly against this. It would make a mockery of the 25th man.
 

YTF

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Let's suspend disbelief for a moment and suppose that Ortiz comes back for another season (which he's not going to do). What if he flat out drops of a cliff and sucks? Can't you just hear it now? "What the Hell was Dombrowski thinking?" "He should have retired last year." "What an embarrassment." "Total waste of money." "He's taking up a roster spot." This forum is going to read like a Felger and Mazz transcript. Just enjoy this season and let the man retire folks.
 

Rasputin

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Some of us have been arguing for a taxi squad as part of a number of changes we'd like to make throughout the game.

Taxi squad, DH in the NL, change the schedule, make the early rounds of the post season longer without so many goddamn off days. I doubt any of them are going to happen soon, but we can dream.
 
Dec 21, 2015
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Let's suspend disbelief for a moment and suppose that Ortiz comes back for another season (which he's not going to do). What if he flat out drops of a cliff and sucks? Can't you just hear it now? "What the Hell was Dombrowski thinking?" "He should have retired last year." "What an embarrassment." "Total waste of money." "He's taking up a roster spot." This forum is going to read like a Felger and Mazz transcript. Just enjoy this season and let the man retire folks.
Not if you're mostly paying him per-game. And if we stuck with him through the nadir of early '09 and '10, we'd surely stick with him for a month or two of struggles. I made a crack about Keith Foulke earlier, but the fact of the matter is, even if Papi looks like he barely knows which end of the bat to swing up there, nobody's going to boo him and there just aren't going to be complaints and questions. We've worried about him irrationally every year for the last decade, and he's never failed to eventually prove his value.

But I'm not worried at all about that eventuality. He's kinda attained True Baseball Enlightenment at this point - I think he's got the mental game all figured out with the batter-pitcher duel, in a way you almost never see. The only question is whether his body can hold up, and if it doesn't, he won't be taking a roster spot for very long.
 

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I imagine it's been said upthread, but my understanding is that Ortiz is tired of all the off season prep. There's no real "part time" situation that gets around that. The best I can come up with would be to start the "off season" in January and the regular season in July...which makes little sense.

Plus, I'm sure he's as anxious as anyone to see how his body's holding up after the dog days.
 

YTF

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I imagine it's been said upthread, but my understanding is that Ortiz is tired of all the off season prep. There's no real "part time" situation that gets around that. The best I can come up with would be to start the "off season" in January and the regular season in July...which makes little sense.

Plus, I'm sure he's as anxious as anyone to see how his body's holding up after the dog days.
Yeah, David's said as much himself. He took a month off and started prepping in November. It's become work for him to do so, more difficult than ever and the man can barely run, nursing two bad Achilles..
 

dwainw

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Rich Levine of Boston.com asks fans to stop asking Papi not to retire:

http://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/05/28/stop-asking-david-ortiz-not-retire

I agree with him. Go out on top and don't look back.
100% agree with this (although how about directing this at the media, as well). I understand excitement and nostalgia getting the best of people early in a new season, but as the season continues and an early-season hot streak inches gradually toward a HOF-sealing season-for-the-ages--enough already. What more can Papi say about it, and why should he have to? Further, what is there to gain from badgering him into either 1) hinting that he might consider another year or 2) threatening to snap a reporter in half if he has to hear the question one more time (obviously, not the Papi-way, but could you blame him?). Anyway, let the guy keep his mind free & clear and marvel at what he's doing, hopefully all the way to a late run in October. Then....have at him.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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The HR today was his 30th to give the Sox the lead in the 8th or later in his career per the broadcast. That's insane.
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory

moondog80

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Career HR, Age 27 forward:

1. Bonds 620
2. Ruth 552
3. Aaron 536
4. Palmeiro 496
5. Thome 479
6. Sosa 478
7. Mays 473
8. Ortiz 460

Of course, David Ortiz only had 1693 PA before age 27. The next lowest on the list is Thome with 2616.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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Career HR, Age 27 forward:

1. Bonds 620
2. Ruth 552
3. Aaron 536
4. Palmeiro 496
5. Thome 479
6. Sosa 478
7. Mays 473
8. Ortiz 460

Of course, David Ortiz only had 1693 PA before age 27. The next lowest on the list is Thome with 2616.
By the end of the season, with the way he is hitting, he will end up 5th on that list.
 

luckysox

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A fair number of the O's fans sitting near me last night stood and cheered for Papi's HR that gave the Sox the lead. One guy, full O's gear and sitting with his son, who was a bit pissed about the O's giving up the lead (however temporarily) turned to me and said, "If you can't appreciate what he is doing, you're not a baseball fan." He really is something special right now.
 

RG33

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I watched the David Ortiz documentary on Amazon on a flight to Hawaii last week and got chills about 8 times. I told my brother (notorious Ortiz hater who says he is a dick from his interactions) that he is full of shit. No way the guy isn't awesome. It was really good for those that haven't seen it.

"David Ortiz: In the Moment".