David Ortiz, Elder Batsman

Devizier

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Ortiz's dugout speech was reminiscent of Antoine Walker pumping up the Celtics to a 28-point comeback against the Nets back in the day. 
 
Hopefully the good guys come out on top this time around.
 

Doctor G

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I am  pissed off at Joe Buck and his repeated characterization of  David struggling in  08 and 09 and somehow magically returning to the form he showed earlier in his career. First of all, he never mentions the fact that Ortiz had a serious wrist injury. He also fails to mention a rather significant  change in approach by David. The "this guy is amazing" mantra to me is a thinly veiled accusation of PED use.
 
If you got something to say Joe say it. By the way do you remember a guy named Willie Stargell who did the same thing in Pittsburgh.
 

EllisTheRimMan

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CoRP said:
updated: (Reggie on top this time)

 
 
We are watching a legend, a generational talent.  Remind yourself and your kids, grandkids, friends, parents, siblings, coworkers etc. etc of this all of the time.  We are lucky to watch him play and wear our colors.  I think he has another two great years in him and potentially two to three more solid ones after that (All of his counting statistics will be HOF-worthy if this happens).  He'll get back to the playoffs a few more times during that stretch with more chances to build on his playoff/clutch legacy.  When I saw him huddling up the rest of the team last night, I was awe struck and I knew they were going to win and he'd be a part of it.  Of course, Pedroia had the best quote, "I couldn't understand a word he was saying."  Love this team.
 
EDIT:  Forgot to add that he'll need 3 more rings to tie Jackson.  Might as well knock that down to 2 since we're already here. 
 
Also in the video above... he was out... but that AB in the 14th is amazing... I had forgotten about that.  He nearly hit another homer to right (just hooked it) and fouled off lots of pitches before the bloop single to center.
 
I'm going to put in my 2004 Red Sox DVD and watch that inning tonight.  Jesus, he was young and so was I :(
 

Montana Fan

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CHAOS said:
 
 
From Minnesota cast off, to Boston Red Sox legend. What an amazing story.
If you haven't watched the A-Rod/Griffey video that was posted in this thread, watch it to the end. The only thing missing is Paul Harvey signing off at the end of the video.
 

Brianish

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bosockboy said:
IIRC, he also led a powerful clubhouse speech when they were down 3-1 to Cleveland in 2007.
 
I remember Pap describing part of it on Letterman. It apparently included the line 'You're wearing a Boston Red Sox jersey. That means you're a bad mother-fucker.'
 

AlNipper49

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Greatest Sox hitter since Ted Williams.


I'll take it a step further. Given what he's meant to at least two championship teams, he's the "most important" Red Sox player of all time.
 

67WasBest

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.727/.750/1.364/2.114 line in World Series, and he just drove in a run in his first AB tonight to enhance these further. 
 
To paraphrase Alicia Keys; "This boy is on FIRE!!!!"
 

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67WasBest said:
.727/.750/1.364/2.114 line in World Series, and he just drove in a run in his first AB tonight to enhance these further. 
 
To paraphrase Alicia Keys; "This boy is on FIRE!!!!"
He's now batting .769 in the World Series. He can basically go 0 for the rest of it and take home the MVP if the Sox win.
 
AND this is including Beltran's robbed home run. He has a like a 2.3 ops with a home run that probably 90% of outfielders don't make.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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AlNipper49 said:
I'll take it a step further. Given what he's meant to at least two championship teams, he's the "most important" Red Sox player of all time.
Now you're just going completely overboard. Oh no, wait, you're really not. When you consider the number of Hall of Fame players that have played for the Sox it seems crazy to think a current player could carry that title. Wow, it's been amazing watching him.
 

bball831

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AlNipper49 said:
I'll take it a step further. Given what he's meant to at least two championship teams, he's the "most important" Red Sox player of all time.
 
It's a topic for the postseason but it's time to re-assess his place in Boston sports history.  He's making a case to be right at the top.
 

The Napkin

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Devizier said:
Ortiz's dugout speech was reminiscent of Antoine Walker pumping up the Celtics to a 28-point comeback against the Nets back in the day. 
 
Hopefully the good guys come out on top this time around.
I'll add Chara ripping the shit out of the Bruins after the first period of game 3 of the 2011 finals. I'd give good money to see a video of that.
 

The Boomer

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AlNipper49 said:
I'll take it a step further. Given what he's meant to at least two championship teams, he's the "most important" Red Sox player of all time.
 
He claims this team title from no less a baseball player than Babe Ruth (who is probably the greatest player of all time everywhere) going back to almost a century ago.  As the third youngest triple hitter in World Series history, Bogaerts joined a group that includes only Cobb and Mantle ahead of him.  I just love those kind of superlatives.  The last 4 out of the 5 WS games so far this year arguably hold up well historically in terms of competitive and unexpected finishes as any group of 4 consecutive games ever played in the World Series.
 

smastroyin

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I just hope that Wednesday night Ortiz solidifies his case for MVP. Especially if it ends Wachas chances
 

TFisNEXT

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The Allented Mr Ripley said:
PEDs and DH bias are going to be tough to overcome.
If the Sox go on to win this World Series, I think this postseason will be enough. We know the writers love "rings" though, so even though Ortiz has been ridiculous this postseason, he still needs to get that third ring or the performance gets overlooked more. I think he will be close to a lock if they win with Ortiz getting a huge hit in the clinching game.

There is still more story left to be written before the book is printed on Ortiz and the HOF.
 

bankshot1

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At some point HoF voters are going to recognize the DH, which has been around for 40 years, as a legitimate position in baseball. If closers can by voted in, (I think there are 5) then DHs will be, and when they are there are two guys who go in, Papi and Edgar. The PED issue for Papi is tricky, and to the extent its held against him years from now will be interesting. 
 

Paul M

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I see no reason he can't play 3 more years and probably add 75 more HRs to his resume. Would give him over 500 HRs and maybe 2,500 hits.
 
Feel like he and Schilling both get in if not in the first 3 years but at some point. Both get in as much for October as the overall resume. My guess is PED backlash quiets down in 5-7 years.
 

86spike

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The Allented Mr Ripley said:
PEDs and DH bias are going to be tough to overcome.
First, his name on the leaked PED list from the first round of testing has never been confirmed by MLB (right?) and no one knows what he failed his test on (there is gray area).

Second, Frank Thomas will likely beat him to the Hall and that dude was a DH for what, 70% of his career?

Third, everyone (except MFYfans) loves the dude. If there is going to be one 95% DH to make it, Ortiz is the guy.
 

kieckeredinthehead

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86spike said:
First, his name on the leaked PED list from the first round of testing has never been confirmed by MLB (right?) and no one knows what he failed his test on (there is gray area).

Second, Frank Thomas will likely beat him to the Hall and that dude was a DH for what, 70% of his career?

Third, everyone (except MFYfans) loves the dude. If there is going to be one 95% DH to make it, Ortiz is the guy.
 
Thomas was a DH for about 50% of his career, and he's a no doubt hall of famer. Either Edgar or Ortiz needs to go in before the DH seal is broken.
 

SumnerH

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Thomas was a DH for about 50% of his career, and he's a no doubt hall of famer. Either Edgar or Ortiz needs to go in before the DH seal is broken.


Edgar is right there on stats (it's been a bit since I looked, but my recollection puts Edgar slightly ahead),but between this and 2004 and other heroics Ortiz has to have harnessed the Jack Morris voters as well as many start folks, I'd think. His storyline is absurd. And if Rice was "feared" then how do you describe Papi?
 

86spike

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kieckeredinthehead said:
Thomas was a DH for about 50% of his career, and he's a no doubt hall of famer. Either Edgar or Ortiz needs to go in before the DH seal is broken.
Googled it and you're right that I over-estimated Thomas.

He was a DH for 58% of his games. Ortiz is at 87% (and climbing the longer he plays, obviously).
 

Sampo Gida

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Doctor G said:
I am  pissed off at Joe Buck and his repeated characterization of  David struggling in  08 and 09 and somehow magically returning to the form he showed earlier in his career. First of all, he never mentions the fact that Ortiz had a serious wrist injury. He also fails to mention a rather significant  change in approach by David. The "this guy is amazing" mantra to me is a thinly veiled accusation of PED use.
 
If you got something to say Joe say it. By the way do you remember a guy named Willie Stargell who did the same thing in Pittsburgh.
 
Papi does join a select group of hitters with such a dominating performance in his age 37 season.  Only the following players with 502 PA have a higher OPS+ at age 37
 
Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Hank Aaron
Ted Williams
Tris Speaker
 
http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=6GczP
 
Basically he has the highest OPS+ at age 37 in the modern era (call it 1973-present) after Barry Bonds.  
 
It's unfortunate that when you do something exceptional that people are going to wonder, but that's the reality in the post steroid era, especially when Biogenesis shows us players can use steroids and HGH without getting caught in the testing.
 
In any even, based on the company he is in, what Papi has done is amazing, especially if he has done it clean, and there is no evidence to suggest he has not done it clean unless being really good can convict you..
 

Saints Rest

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CoRP said:
With that being exactly half of  a full 162 game season, it is interesting how close he lands to his career 162 game averages:
(first number career 162 game avg; second number is playoffs x2)
  • H: 166-174
  • 2B: 43 - 42 
  • HR: 35 - 34
  • RBI: 118 - 120
  • BB: 89 -106
  • K:  121-140
  • BA: .287 - .296
  • OBP:  .381 - .403
  • SLG: .549 - .554
  • OPS:  .930 - .958
  • TB:  319 - 326
  • IBB:  13 - 16
 

B H Kim

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86spike said:
First, his name on the leaked PED list from the first round of testing has never been confirmed by MLB (right?) and no one knows what he failed his test on (there is gray area).
 
 
Since when have the HOF voters required any confirmation?  (See, e.g., Jeff Bagwell)
 

smastroyin

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5 of the 8 IBB (3 in 04, 2 in 07) are from Scioscia in the ALDS.  A 6th was also in the ALDS against Oakland.
 
So, he's only been IBB'd once in 6 ALCS and once in 3 WS.  Ironically, perhaps, the one time he was IBB'd in the LCS was his worst, against Tampa in 08 (and it was effective, Youk hit into a DP immediately following).
 

CoRP

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9/10ths of a WS win on his own.  Tops on the Cards?  Beltran .23, Molina .22, and Holliday .19