Daniel Theis to Chicago for Mo Wagner

Cesar Crespo

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And because I was curious

Evan Fournier this year:
0-2ft: 3-6, .500
2-4ft: 15-48, .313
4-6ft: 27-78, .346
6ft+: 28-57, .500

Last year:
0-2ft: 2/8, .250
2-4ft: 28/90, .311
4-6ft: 63/164, .384
6ft+: 79/172, .459
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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We differ in that I think it's more about success rate for both of them. I don't think volume would be a problem for Wagner, it's just Washington decided to play him inside more.

I think both will be passable defensively with Moritz slightly better. Moritz also picks up way more fouls and is far more turnover prone but outside of that, I think he'll end up the better player overall too. But really, it just depends on who you think will be the better 3 point shooter with volume and rate factored in. Without a reliable 3 point shot, neither one is sticking around.
I'll take Wagner. I agree, think he adds a little more defense

FWIW, we both liked Moritz Wagner last year at the trade deadline. You were pretty convinced he was unattainable.

I just don't see why the Wizards would move him. Wagner is under control for 2 more years after this season and is only 22 years old. In a re-building process, he's the type of guy you keep. I get Thomas Bryant may change things a little but I'm not sure they have to make a choice yet.

Wagner shot the 3 pretty well in college and has improved greatly at the line as a pro. I'd love to have him I just don't see it.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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I'll take Wagner. I agree, think he adds a little more defense

FWIW, we both liked Moritz Wagner last year at the trade deadline. You were pretty convinced he was unattainable.
What a difference a year makes. I'm sure there had to be more to that deal though.

Now he's 24 (in April) and is a FA at the end of the year. Plus the pick is a lot more obvious, as Bryant is the better player (injury concern or not) and Wagner's development stalled (partly due to injuries). I still like his chances of being a serviceable NBA player but I'm not sure it'll be with the C's. I'm taking him over Kornet but I can see the argument.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Sooooo, Maybe limit the # of 3s taken in a game to six a qtr, but unlimited in the 4th qtr. (to help comebacks) After the six 3 pt shots have been taken, all shots in the qtr became 2 point shots. Theoretically it would enhance the low-post offensive threat and mid-range games as those become the higher yielding shots and more likely to draw fouls. It will never happen .
It's an interesting idea but no coach is going to allow a rule that would limit 3P shots in a quarter. That would be a nightmare to try figure out how to deal with.

I was looking at some stats at basketball ref and the #s for teams shooting 3s has been on a steep and steady rise for the past 10-15 and has about doubled to over 35% of shots attempted. And there is no reason to believe the trend will stop. Shooters are geting better, the yield will likely rise and unless the NBA calls a tighter game on illegal screens, or the Harden kick-out gambit to get 3 FT, more and more of the game will be from beyond the arc, making for a less interesting and less skilled game for many fans to watch
I was looking for something else and to me, the image in the tweet below totally explains why the game is less interesting than the 80s.

View: https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/status/1217109175894831105
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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Right but we still might have to make a choice on Wagner or Kornet.

In the grand scheme of things, it's not a huge deal but I'd rather have Strus than Green right now. If they pick, hopefully they pick correctly even if it doesn't matter.
I haven’t seen much of Kornet except for in a Celtics uniform. My initial evaluation gives him a chance to be a backend rotation 5 in the old Steimsma role. My evaluation of Wagner over the last 5 years gives him the chance to be a rotation big for the Giessen 46ers of the German Pro League.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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I haven’t seen much of Kornet except for in a Celtics uniform. My initial evaluation gives him a chance to be a backend rotation 5 in the old Steimsma role. My evaluation of Wagner over the last 5 years gives him the chance to be a rotation big for the Giessen 46ers of the German Pro League.
Maybe but roster sizes are 15 nowadays. Players stick around.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Maybe but roster sizes are 15 nowadays. Players stick around.
True but those slots 12-15 are generally fluid kind of like an NFL practice squad. At some point to have to show you have the potential to someday contribute. Wagner is 7-feet and can probably shoot great alone in a gym so someone may give him a look/see past his rookie deal but I know it wouldn’t be me.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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True but those slots 12-15 are generally fluid kind of like an NFL practice squad. At some point to have to show you have the potential to someday contribute. Wagner is 7-feet and can probably shoot great alone in a gym so someone may give him a look/see past his rookie deal but I know it wouldn’t be me.
The only thing that gives me pause saying neither will be back next year is the fact TL and TT are the only bigs under contract and I can see TT being used for matching salaries. They might want to have one of them back on the cheap for next year.

It's also possible they pick up Drummond for the rest of the year and re-sign him on the cheap. If they did that, I'd think TT would be traded in the offseason so they'd still need a 3rd big. Or they could just end up drafting one to develop too.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The only thing that gives me pause saying neither will be back next year is the fact TL and TT are the only bigs under contract and I can see TT being used for matching salaries. They might want to have one of them back on the cheap for next year.

It's also possible they pick up Drummond for the rest of the year and re-sign him on the cheap. If they did that, I'd think TT would be traded in the offseason so they'd still need a 3rd big. Or they could just end up drafting one to develop too.
If I had to guess on next year it would be something like:

Wagner - 3% (generous)
Kornet - 50% (replacing Tacko’s roster spot)

Kornet has a great opportunity here right now so what he does with it will change that number.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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If I had to guess on next year it would be something like:

Wagner - 3% (generous)
Kornet - 50% (replacing Tacko’s roster spot)

Kornet has a great opportunity here right now so what he does with it will change that number.
He was already on a 2 way day with the Knicks. Can he even be signed on a 2 way deal?
 

128

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The only thing that gives me pause saying neither will be back next year is the fact TL and TT are the only bigs under contract and I can see TT being used for matching salaries. They might want to have one of them back on the cheap for next year.

It's also possible they pick up Drummond for the rest of the year and re-sign him on the cheap. If they did that, I'd think TT would be traded in the offseason so they'd still need a 3rd big. Or they could just end up drafting one to develop too.
Drummond is headed to the Lakers, his agent said today.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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He was already on a 2 way day with the Knicks. Can he even be signed on a 2 way deal?
I don't think Kornet can be signed to another two-way contract as only players with three years of NBA service time or less are eligible; by my count, it looks like this will be his fourth year. Admittedly, I don't know the rules of how service time is counted so I could be wrong.
 

mcpickl

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The only thing that gives me pause saying neither will be back next year is the fact TL and TT are the only bigs under contract and I can see TT being used for matching salaries. They might want to have one of them back on the cheap for next year.

It's also possible they pick up Drummond for the rest of the year and re-sign him on the cheap. If they did that, I'd think TT would be traded in the offseason so they'd still need a 3rd big. Or they could just end up drafting one to develop too.
I'd be surprised if at least one of them wasn't back next year, my guess would be Wagner.

They must see something in at least one of them, otherwise I'd think there would've been a better way to just dump Theis.
 

radsoxfan

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My totally unofficial odds re: Wagner and Kornet.

Chances they are in any way useful NBA rotation players (lets say top 8-9 guys on a good team):
Wagner 40%
Kornet 20%
 

lovegtm

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My totally unofficial odds re: Wagner and Kornet.

Chances they are in any way useful NBA rotation players (lets say top 8-9 guys on a good team):
Wagner 40%
Kornet 20%
Honestly, those are pretty high odds. It looks like the Celtics will get a crack at rolling them dice too, since all the buyout guys are signing elsewhere. (Understandably, since the Celtics don't look like contenders).

Finding a useful rotation guy in the Theis salary dump trade would be a nice little win, similar to when Avery Bradley turned into Mook (yes yes I get the Mook hate, but they don't nearly make the Finals without him).
 

benhogan

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I'd be surprised if at least one of them wasn't back next year, my guess would be Wagner.

They must see something in at least one of them, otherwise I'd think there would've been a better way to just dump Theis.
Some of us heard rumors(attached) that Danny got a $5MM TPE out of moving Theis. Did you hear this at all?


https://celticswire.usatoday.com/lists/nba-boston-celtics-bye-thes-green-teague-hello-fournier-kornet-wagner/

Boston will create a $5 million traded player exception (TPE) with the Theis deal, absorbing Wagner into one of its existing TPEs.
 
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benhogan

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Honestly, those are pretty high odds. It looks like the Celtics will get a crack at rolling them dice too, since all the buyout guys are signing elsewhere. (Understandably, since the Celtics don't look like contenders).

Finding a useful rotation guy in the Theis salary dump trade would be a nice little win, similar to when Avery Bradley turned into Mook (yes yes I get the Mook hate, but they don't nearly make the Finals without him).
Mook was great as an offensive sparkplug off the bench, starting him and letting him be a top offensive weapon added little balance to the rotation. The same goes for Fournier IMO, bring him off the bench against opponents' 2nd units and let him be a top offensive option there.
 

radsoxfan

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Honestly, those are pretty high odds. It looks like the Celtics will get a crack at rolling them dice too, since all the buyout guys are signing elsewhere. (Understandably, since the Celtics don't look like contenders).

Finding a useful rotation guy in the Theis salary dump trade would be a nice little win, similar to when Avery Bradley turned into Mook (yes yes I get the Mook hate, but they don't nearly make the Finals without him).
They have a shot, which is better than you might expect for a salary dump.

Wagner is younger, more mobile, and should be able to shoot better than he has...so thats why I give him the edge.

I'll add Grant just to make everyone sad.
 

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wade boggs chicken dinner

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So Brad said that the Cs have been interested in Kornet for a while, not just because he can shoot but because of Kornet's PnR defense.

I thought that was odd but I did find this article - https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-player-preview-luke-kornet-brings-unique-skill-set-bench -that discussed the Bulls' signing of Kornet before last season and two quotes struck me
It's hard to extract much from Kornet's 2019 based on how dysfunctional the Knicks were, but he put together a solid stretch to close the year, averaging 12.6 points, 6.3 rebounds and 2.7 blocks in 28.7 minutes over the final seven games of the season.

and

Kornet is unusual in that he's a 3-point shooting big who is really talented on the defensive end. He's not Channing Frye, Dirk Nowitzki or Kelly Olynyk. We'll get to the 3-point shooting later, but consider for now that the Knicks were 6.8 points per 100 possession better defensively with Kornet on the floor. His 0.9 blocks per game won't jump out, but he also accumulated those swats in just 17.0 minutes per game. His 4.5% block rate was equal to Wendell Carter's and he had seven games of three or more blocks. His Defensive RPM was 6th in the NBA among power forwards (2.27) and ahead of names such as Jaren Jackson and Pascal Siakam. Kornet isn't a stiff. He's going to give Jim Boylen options on the second unit on whether the Bulls want to emphasize offense (Daniel Gafford) or defense (Luke Kornet).
If Kornet gets to play, it will be interesting to see if he really has any skills on defense or whether the past #s were a SSS fluke. He doesn't strike me as someone whose PnR defense would stand out but it intrigues me that Brad pointed it out.
 

lexrageorge

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Some of us heard rumors(attached) that Danny got a $5MM TPE out of moving Theis. Did you hear this at all?


https://celticswire.usatoday.com/lists/nba-boston-celtics-bye-thes-green-teague-hello-fournier-kornet-wagner/

Boston will create a $5 million traded player exception (TPE) with the Theis deal, absorbing Wagner into one of its existing TPEs.
It would make sense. Either Wagner or Kornet could fit into Poirier's TPE, and both I believe could fit into Kanter's. Advantage is that it resets the clock, giving Danny a full year to use $5M TPE.
 

128

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So Brad said that the Cs have been interested in Kornet for a while, not just because he can shoot but because of Kornet's PnR defense.

I thought that was odd but I did find this article - https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-player-preview-luke-kornet-brings-unique-skill-set-bench -that discussed the Bulls' signing of Kornet before last season and two quotes struck me
It's hard to extract much from Kornet's 2019 based on how dysfunctional the Knicks were, but he put together a solid stretch to close the year, averaging 12.6 points, 6.3 rebounds and 2.7 blocks in 28.7 minutes over the final seven games of the season.

and

Kornet is unusual in that he's a 3-point shooting big who is really talented on the defensive end. He's not Channing Frye, Dirk Nowitzki or Kelly Olynyk. We'll get to the 3-point shooting later, but consider for now that the Knicks were 6.8 points per 100 possession better defensively with Kornet on the floor. His 0.9 blocks per game won't jump out, but he also accumulated those swats in just 17.0 minutes per game. His 4.5% block rate was equal to Wendell Carter's and he had seven games of three or more blocks. His Defensive RPM was 6th in the NBA among power forwards (2.27) and ahead of names such as Jaren Jackson and Pascal Siakam. Kornet isn't a stiff. He's going to give Jim Boylen options on the second unit on whether the Bulls want to emphasize offense (Daniel Gafford) or defense (Luke Kornet).
If Kornet gets to play, it will be interesting to see if he really has any skills on defense or whether the past #s were a SSS fluke. He doesn't strike me as someone whose PnR defense would stand out but it intrigues me that Brad pointed it out.
Watching Wagner and Kornet against OKC really underscored for me how undersized Theis is for an NBA center. He played his heart out and found ways to compensate, but he gave up a lot of inches most nights, and unlike Rob Williams he's not blessed with a freakish wingspan.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Watching Wagner and Kornet against OKC really underscored for me how undersized Theis is for an NBA center. He played his heart out and found ways to compensate, but he gave up a lot of inches most nights, and unlike Rob Williams he's not blessed with a freakish wingspan.
I don't know if the league figured The Is out, but the Cs this year are 6th worst in the league in 3-10 feet shooting percentage against and 9th worst in 0-3. That's after having a top 5 defense anchored by Theis in the league last year, well as of May 2020.
 

BaseballJones

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It's an interesting idea but no coach is going to allow a rule that would limit 3P shots in a quarter. That would be a nightmare to try figure out how to deal with.


I was looking for something else and to me, the image in the tweet below totally explains why the game is less interesting than the 80s.

View: https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/status/1217109175894831105
What I like about the 2001-02 graphic is that they used every bit of the court. All skills were valued, not just a couple. I get the math with the 3-point shot, but man the 2001-02 graph just reflects a more holistic form of basketball.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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What I like about the 2001-02 graphic is that they used every bit of the court. All skills were valued, not just a couple. I get the math with the 3-point shot, but man the 2001-02 graph just reflects a more holistic form of basketball.
Yeah, I'd probably miss a lot of those shots - post play, pull-up jumpers, fadeaways, curls off of screens, etc. - if I watched teams other than the Cs (Tatum and Brown have to be among the highest duos taking mid-range shots in the league).

The easiest thing for the NBA to do is move the line back. Even if they keep corner threes (which I wouldn't, they should move it back above the break. Guys shoot too well.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah, I'd probably miss a lot of those shots - post play, pull-up jumpers, fadeaways, curls off of screens, etc. - if I watched teams other than the Cs (Tatum and Brown have to be among the highest duos taking mid-range shots in the league).

The easiest thing for the NBA to do is move the line back. Even if they keep corner threes (which I wouldn't, they should move it back above the break. Guys shoot too well.
The concern there is that, unless the floor gets widened, you take away ability to space to the corners, which will let teams sink down really aggressively to pack the paint.

Personally I’m fine with role players spacing out to 3 rather than taking 16-20 foot jumpers like they did in 2001 or whatever. That’s mostly what that chart shows. This topic has been discussed pretty extensively online—if a mod wants to break this into a thread, I can dig up the sources later.
 

lovegtm

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So Brad said that the Cs have been interested in Kornet for a while, not just because he can shoot but because of Kornet's PnR defense.

I thought that was odd but I did find this article - https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-player-preview-luke-kornet-brings-unique-skill-set-bench -that discussed the Bulls' signing of Kornet before last season and two quotes struck me
It's hard to extract much from Kornet's 2019 based on how dysfunctional the Knicks were, but he put together a solid stretch to close the year, averaging 12.6 points, 6.3 rebounds and 2.7 blocks in 28.7 minutes over the final seven games of the season.

and

Kornet is unusual in that he's a 3-point shooting big who is really talented on the defensive end. He's not Channing Frye, Dirk Nowitzki or Kelly Olynyk. We'll get to the 3-point shooting later, but consider for now that the Knicks were 6.8 points per 100 possession better defensively with Kornet on the floor. His 0.9 blocks per game won't jump out, but he also accumulated those swats in just 17.0 minutes per game. His 4.5% block rate was equal to Wendell Carter's and he had seven games of three or more blocks. His Defensive RPM was 6th in the NBA among power forwards (2.27) and ahead of names such as Jaren Jackson and Pascal Siakam. Kornet isn't a stiff. He's going to give Jim Boylen options on the second unit on whether the Bulls want to emphasize offense (Daniel Gafford) or defense (Luke Kornet).
If Kornet gets to play, it will be interesting to see if he really has any skills on defense or whether the past #s were a SSS fluke. He doesn't strike me as someone whose PnR defense would stand out but it intrigues me that Brad pointed it out.
Thanks for that. Here’s a compilation of Kornet’s blocks with the Bulls last year. Obviously it’s highlights, so you only see the best stuff, but you can see some of what those defensive metrics were picking up. He is good at using his length to avoid committing while still contesting down low, and does a pretty good job in help of tracking multiple players while getting back into plays.

View: https://youtu.be/jQSoFEVr3V8
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Thanks for that. Here’s a compilation of Kornet’s blocks with the Bulls last year. Obviously it’s highlights, so you only see the best stuff, but you can see some of what those defensive metrics were picking up. He is good at using his length to avoid committing while still contesting down low, and does a pretty good job in help of tracking multiple players while getting back into plays.

View: https://youtu.be/jQSoFEVr3V8
Thanks for posting. Interesting to see that many of his blocks came from 1 on 1 defense where someone is trying to bully him down low. TT was one victim.

Also interesting that none of the highlights were on PnRs though.
 

tbrown_01923

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The concern there is that, unless the floor gets widened, you take away ability to space to the corners, which will let teams sink down really aggressively to pack the paint.

Personally I’m fine with role players spacing out to 3 rather than taking 16-20 foot jumpers like they did in 2001 or whatever. That’s mostly what that chart shows. This topic has been discussed pretty extensively online—if a mod wants to break this into a thread, I can dig up the sources later.
widen the court. They should have done it years ago - I remember the first time I saw the t-wolves play live with Garnet's massive wingspan. I have been on the "widen the court" bandwagen since then. Even a foot on each side would provide so much room...
 

Cesar Crespo

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What I like about the 2001-02 graphic is that they used every bit of the court. All skills were valued, not just a couple. I get the math with the 3-point shot, but man the 2001-02 graph just reflects a more holistic form of basketball.
Yeah, Hack a Shaq was beautiful.

I agree with you that the early 00s were the best but the last 2 minutes were by far the worst.
 

lovegtm

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What I like about the 2001-02 graphic is that they used every bit of the court. All skills were valued, not just a couple. I get the math with the 3-point shot, but man the 2001-02 graph just reflects a more holistic form of basketball.
Ah, 2001-2002, the halcyon days of the NBA...
 

DGreenwood

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Some of us heard rumors(attached) that Danny got a $5MM TPE out of moving Theis. Did you hear this at all?


https://celticswire.usatoday.com/lists/nba-boston-celtics-bye-thes-green-teague-hello-fournier-kornet-wagner/

Boston will create a $5 million traded player exception (TPE) with the Theis deal, absorbing Wagner into one of its existing TPEs.
It would make sense. Either Wagner or Kornet could fit into Poirier's TPE, and both I believe could fit into Kanter's. Advantage is that it resets the clock, giving Danny a full year to use $5M TPE.
If Spotrac.com is to be believed, we didn't use either of the Poierer or Kanter exceptions. They show the Celtics using $17.45 million of the Hayward exception but they show the other two fully intact.

Exceptions:
Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception $9,258,000 ($0) Tristan Thompson
Bi-Annual Exception $3,623,000 ($3,623,000)
Trade Exception $2,505,793 ($2,505,793) Vincent Poirier trade with OKC 11/19/2021
Trade Exception $4,767,000 ($4,767,000) Enes Kanter trade with POR 11/20/2021
Trade Exception $28,500,000 ($11,050,000) Gordon Hayward trade with CHA, (Evan Fournier, $17,450,000) 11/29/2021


Edit: Sorry that the table is a little ugly. It's prettier if you click through the link and scroll down to Exceptions. The first number is the value of the original exception, the number in parenthesis represents how much is remaining of the exception. The date is the expiration date of the TPE.
 
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lovegtm

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Continuing the standing reach discussion from the TL thread, this article claims that Kornet has a 9'6" standing reach, which would be inch less than Gobert. That checks out with how he looks on film in terms of his ability to bother super-long guys like AD while staying on the ground. I'd be a lot more interested taking a flyer on that than on the length of a stiff like Tacko (I know it's apples to oranges because of the 2-way situation).

View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2597403-from-college-afterthought-to-nba-prospect-the-stunning-rise-of-luke-kornet
 

Cesar Crespo

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So Brad said that the Cs have been interested in Kornet for a while, not just because he can shoot but because of Kornet's PnR defense.

I thought that was odd but I did find this article - https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-player-preview-luke-kornet-brings-unique-skill-set-bench -that discussed the Bulls' signing of Kornet before last season and two quotes struck me
It's hard to extract much from Kornet's 2019 based on how dysfunctional the Knicks were, but he put together a solid stretch to close the year, averaging 12.6 points, 6.3 rebounds and 2.7 blocks in 28.7 minutes over the final seven games of the season.

and

Kornet is unusual in that he's a 3-point shooting big who is really talented on the defensive end. He's not Channing Frye, Dirk Nowitzki or Kelly Olynyk. We'll get to the 3-point shooting later, but consider for now that the Knicks were 6.8 points per 100 possession better defensively with Kornet on the floor. His 0.9 blocks per game won't jump out, but he also accumulated those swats in just 17.0 minutes per game. His 4.5% block rate was equal to Wendell Carter's and he had seven games of three or more blocks. His Defensive RPM was 6th in the NBA among power forwards (2.27) and ahead of names such as Jaren Jackson and Pascal Siakam. Kornet isn't a stiff. He's going to give Jim Boylen options on the second unit on whether the Bulls want to emphasize offense (Daniel Gafford) or defense (Luke Kornet).
If Kornet gets to play, it will be interesting to see if he really has any skills on defense or whether the past #s were a SSS fluke. He doesn't strike me as someone whose PnR defense would stand out but it intrigues me that Brad pointed it out.
Found this from one of his old scouting reports. but we all know how wrong those can be.

Kornet may fit offensively as a stretch five with a decent feel for the game, but he's quite immobile on the defensive end, struggling to guard pick and roll even in drop situations and leaving much to be desired on the defensive glass. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Luke-Kornet-78500/ ©DraftExpress
 

ZMart100

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If Spotrac.com is to be believed, we didn't use either of the Poierer or Kanter exceptions. They show the Celtics using $17.45 million of the Hayward exception but they show the other two fully intact.

Exceptions:
Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception $9,258,000 ($0) Tristan Thompson
Bi-Annual Exception $3,623,000 ($3,623,000)
Trade Exception $2,505,793 ($2,505,793) Vincent Poirier trade with OKC 11/19/2021
Trade Exception $4,767,000 ($4,767,000) Enes Kanter trade with POR 11/20/2021
Trade Exception $28,500,000 ($11,050,000) Gordon Hayward trade with CHA, (Evan Fournier, $17,450,000) 11/29/2021


Edit: Sorry that the table is a little ugly. It's prettier if you click through the link and scroll down to Exceptions. The first number is the value of the original exception, the number in parenthesis represents how much is remaining of the exception. The date is the expiration date of the TPE.
Well they still have Javonte on our roster after he played 10 minutes for the Bulls, so they don't get everything right.
 

lovegtm

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11,997
Come now, I didn't say that.
Ha, sorry, I know you were just talking about the shot distribution. The point I was making is that that distribution isn’t very correlated with the attractiveness of the product. I don’t think role players spotting up in the midrange or stars taking tough isos just inside the arc early shot clock adds much to the game.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Ha, sorry, I know you were just talking about the shot distribution. The point I was making is that that distribution isn’t very correlated with the attractiveness of the product. I don’t think role players spotting up in the midrange or stars taking tough isos just inside the arc early shot clock adds much to the game.
I liked the game of the 00's but I guess most people probably think of Kobe and Shaq and they weren't pretty.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,096
If Spotrac.com is to be believed, we didn't use either of the Poierer or Kanter exceptions. They show the Celtics using $17.45 million of the Hayward exception but they show the other two fully intact.

Exceptions:
Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception $9,258,000 ($0) Tristan Thompson
Bi-Annual Exception $3,623,000 ($3,623,000)
Trade Exception $2,505,793 ($2,505,793) Vincent Poirier trade with OKC 11/19/2021
Trade Exception $4,767,000 ($4,767,000) Enes Kanter trade with POR 11/20/2021
Trade Exception $28,500,000 ($11,050,000) Gordon Hayward trade with CHA, (Evan Fournier, $17,450,000) 11/29/2021


Edit: Sorry that the table is a little ugly. It's prettier if you click through the link and scroll down to Exceptions. The first number is the value of the original exception, the number in parenthesis represents how much is remaining of the exception. The date is the expiration date of the TPE.
Spotrac is not always fully up to date, as they rely on publicly released information. The Celtics may not have publicly revealed which TPE they used to acquire Wagner and Kornet. Not even sure when they need to decide and report it to the league office; there may be given some number of business days to make that determination, especially as the Theis trade was probably classified as non-simultaneous.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,492
If Spotrac.com is to be believed, we didn't use either of the Poierer or Kanter exceptions. They show the Celtics using $17.45 million of the Hayward exception but they show the other two fully intact.

Exceptions:
Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception $9,258,000 ($0) Tristan Thompson
Bi-Annual Exception $3,623,000 ($3,623,000)
Trade Exception $2,505,793 ($2,505,793) Vincent Poirier trade with OKC 11/19/2021
Trade Exception $4,767,000 ($4,767,000) Enes Kanter trade with POR 11/20/2021
Trade Exception $28,500,000 ($11,050,000) Gordon Hayward trade with CHA, (Evan Fournier, $17,450,000) 11/29/2021


Edit: Sorry that the table is a little ugly. It's prettier if you click through the link and scroll down to Exceptions. The first number is the value of the original exception, the number in parenthesis represents how much is remaining of the exception. The date is the expiration date of the TPE.
Interesting. Everything I am reading says the Cs created a new $5M exception with Theis. It wouldn't make any sense not to.

Note that BasketballInsiders has all of the Cs trade exceptions still in existence - plus Theis $5M and Teague's $1.62M. http://www.basketballinsiders.com/boston-celtics-team-salary/

I'm not cap expert but I don't see how the Cs could get Kornet + Wagner on the team without either using Theis's salary or a trade exception so I think BasketballInsiders is wrong.

However, as their salaries fit nicely in the Kanter trade exception, it makes no sense to me why the Cs wouldn't create a new one as it would be more $ and wouldn't expire as soon.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,404
around the way
Nothing stopping the league from widening the court 18" on each side and moving the line back that much. Probably a good idea to widen the court anyway, since today's athlete is that much quicker overall. I think that it would help transition basketball too, as it would be harder to free safety those outlet passes.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Nothing stopping the league from widening the court 18" on each side and moving the line back that much. Probably a good idea to widen the court anyway, since today's athlete is that much quicker overall. I think that it would help transition basketball too, as it would be harder to free safety those outlet passes.
Wouldn't that mean less really expensive seats?