Dan Shaughnessy: Taking a dump in your mouth one column at a time

TheoShmeo

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This...

Put Brown on any team other than the Patriots and BBTL would be running rampant with the pearl clutching demanding he should be released. Just take a look at the #MeToo thread in the Omar Forum and all the people that coldn't "enjoy" Parks and Rec anymore because of what a woman accused Ansari of.

Oh noes.... CHB wrote an article to piss off die hard Patriots defenders.... TO THE INTERNET!!!!

Good job giving him the clicks.
Except that Pats fans, at least the ones that I know, don't give two shits about the Krafts' narrative. It only catches the attention of writers and other mediots trying to make a point.

Edit: Was replying more to your point in post 1948 above.
 

HomeBrew1901

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Except that Pats fans, at least the ones that I know, don't give two shits about the Krafts' narrative. It only catches the attention of writers and other mediots trying to make a point.

Edit: Was replying more to your point in post 1948 above.
So you're saying it's an unfair criticism to the fans and the team?

Is there any criticism of the team, Krafts, Belichick, or Brady that you do find acceptable or are the all above reproach?

Can anyone say anything negative about the team that won't get your undies in a bunch?
 

bankshot1

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I can understand Shaughnessy opening with Spygate and Deflategate and linking them to AntonioGate, as supporting his conclusion about the Pats ethical bankruptcy in their pursuit of winning. However, I found his bringing up Orchids of Asia a low-blow cheap shot personal attack on Kraft. I thought it was underhanded and sleazy.
 
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HomeBrew1901

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I can understand Shaughnessy opening with Spygate and Deflategate and linking them to AntonioGate, as supporting his conclusion about the Pats ethical bankruptcy in their pursuit of winning. However, I found his bringing up Orchids of Asia a low-blow cheap shot personal attack on Kraft. I thought it was underhanded and sleazy.
You mean Kraft going there was underhanded and sleazy right?

Are you saying it wasn't a bad look for the Patriots? That his team of high priced lawyers were able to suppress the video tape and essentially end the case actually looked good and wasn't embarrassing to his family or the organization or the NFL?
 

bankshot1

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You mean Kraft going there was underhanded and sleazy right?

Are you saying it wasn't a bad look for the Patriots? That his team of high priced lawyers were able to suppress the video tape and essentially end the case actually looked good and wasn't embarrassing to his family or the organization or the NFL?
What I said was I think there was no journalistic reason to include a hand-job with Deflategate, Spygate and now AntonioGate, as it had nothing to do with football, and the Pat's "ethical bankruptcy". I think Shaughnessy's aim was to embarass Kraft in a sleazy underhanded manner.

I could care less if Kraft pays for consensual sex with an adult. I understand other people may feel differently, and they are entitled to claim whatever high ground they think they're claiming. .
 

HomeBrew1901

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What I said was I think there was no journalistic reason to include a hand-job with Deflategate, Spygate and now AntonioGate, as it had nothing to do with football, and the Pat's "ethical bankruptcy". I think Shaughnessy's aim was to embarass Kraft in a sleazy underhanded manner.

I could care less if Kraft pays for consensual sex with an adult. I understand other people may feel differently, and they are entitled to claim whatever high ground they think they're claiming. .
I truly don't care about what Kraft does on his free time and I'm not here clutching my pearls.

However, shit roles down hill and while you may not like it, it is fair game to include Kraft's behavior in obtaining something that is not legal with the rest of the "Gates" that they have been part of and included in.
 

bankshot1

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I truly don't care about what Kraft does on his free time and I'm not here clutching my pearls.

However, shit roles down hill and while you may not like it, it is fair game to include Kraft's behavior in obtaining something that is not legal with the rest of the "Gates" that they have been part of and included in.
I think I made my point that a private handy had little to do with the CHB's point of the Pat's ethical bankruptcy in pursuit of football wins.

I understand you disagree.
 
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nattysez

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So you're saying it's an unfair criticism to the fans and the team?

Is there any criticism of the team, Krafts, Belichick, or Brady that you do find acceptable or are the all above reproach?

Can anyone say anything negative about the team that won't get your undies in a bunch?
There's only one person in this thread posting in a manner that I'd describe as "having his undies in a bunch."
 

jose melendez

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Except that Pats fans, at least the ones that I know, don't give two shits about the Krafts' narrative. It only catches the attention of writers and other mediots trying to make a point.

Edit: Was replying more to your point in post 1948 above.
Bullshit. They ceratainy loved it back when Myra was alive. And think of the shit I got when I suggested Bob Kraft was maybe not a good person.
 

TheoShmeo

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So you're saying it's an unfair criticism to the fans and the team?

Is there any criticism of the team, Krafts, Belichick, or Brady that you do find acceptable or are the all above reproach?

Can anyone say anything negative about the team that won't get your undies in a bunch?
Ridiculous post. Truly preposterous.

One can of course criticize any or all of them.

Idyllic notions of the Patriots Way are indeed silly. But the CHB’s focus on the Krafts’ inconsistency is a waste of space.
 
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TheoShmeo

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Bullshit. They ceratainy loved it back when Myra was alive. And think of the shit I got when I suggested Bob Kraft was maybe not a good person.
Bullshit to your bullshit. I mean maybe you know Pats fans who get off on the Krafts’ pronouncements. The ones in my world do not care about them. At least, as far as I know they don’t.

Your comments about Kraft being not a good person were ridiculous in my view.* That said, I see no connection between the two things. Kraft could be a wonderful person or a terrible one and neither reality would affect in any way whether morality related notions of the so-called Patriot Way would move the needle for most fans.

* Not because I claim to know or even think you are definitely wrong. I just don’t think you are in a position to know and certainly don’t think going to a massage parlor to get your jollies tells you that. Not that I even remember if that’s what you were basing it on. In the end, my take was and is that without knowing the man a lot better than you possibly could from the outside, that it’s presumptuous to make such a pronouncement.
 
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IpswichSox

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I usually don't exceed the free monthly views of the online Globe during the baseball season, but sometimes I do get blocked after reaching the max views. Today, when trying to read coverage of yesterday's news conference, I got a popup offer of $1 for six months of online Globe access, after which it's some other rate but can be canceled. The ad said it was a special rate, but don't know if it's been widely offered before. Given the amount of Red Sox news likely this off-season, the $1 cost was an easy call.

FYI for fellow ex-pats like me.
 

joyofsox

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Be warned that well before your trail period runs out (possibly weeks before), the Globe will charge you $$$ as if you failed to cancel before your trial ended (even though you have weeks to go on your free trial). Actually, they may charge you even if you do cancel within the trial period.

On October 25, 2018, I purchased a four-week subscription at 99 cents per week. I was charged $3.96 for access to the Globe until November 22. To avoid any additional charges, the Globe stated I had to cancel my subscription before November 22.
On November 12, I received an email notifying me that Boston Globe Media Partners had charged me $27.72 for an additional month of access. 10 days early!
I was able to get a refund, but here's the kicker: I had already cancelled the trial subscription five days earlier (November 7) and the Globe had given me with a cancellation confirmation code.

So not only will the Globe jump the gun and charge you well before they should, even if you cancel your four-week trial two weeks early, you run the very real risk of still being charged for something you never signed up for. And if you are not in the habit of carefully reviewing your credit card statements every month, you could be charged for many months before you notice that the Globe never made your cancellation official. And good luck getting a full refund then.

They pulled the same shit during the summer of 2018. I thought I'd be prepared in November and cancel early, but it did not matter.
 

Euclis20

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About the only truthfully negative thing you can say about Mookie Betts is that, looking over his five years as a starter, he's not as good as Mike Trout. That's it.
 

BJBSJ

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Even Shank has to bend the knee to his daddy, Linda Pizutti Onassis, every once in a while.
 

joe dokes

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The story wasn't close to as bad as the headline. Lazy and obvious (as usual).

The worst part was a bit of a strawman, but this isn't false:
I have heard from some Sox fans who say they will abandon Red Sox Nation if the team trades Mookie Betts. I have read that the Sox might have to trade Xander Bogaerts in order to keep Mookie Betts. There are “Keep Mookie” hoodies for sale on the web and folks who believe that Mookie is the best player to wear a Red Sox uniform since Babe Ruth.
The rest is he's not Trout or Ted. He's roughly Fred Lynn or peak Nomar. That they shouldn't trade Bogaerts to keep Mookie (with which I agree), and that they'll survive. This one didn;t get me too worked up. But the headline is garbage.
 

bankshot1

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The headline was about 100% strawman clickbait, and it seemed to work.

The article was what it was, and it wasn't "wrong", but Shank's Mookie take have been discussed here in the various Mookie/Sox/ Chaim is on my side (yes he is)-sorry threads for some time.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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As someone who once interned at a local newspaper, I can say, unless things are different at the Glob or with CHB, that the writers of the stories/columns never come up with the headline; that is usually the purview of the copy editor.

Not to take any fun out of criticizing Shag, but this one might not be totally on him. Unless it is.
 

ifmanis5

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As someone who once interned at a local newspaper, I can say, unless things are different at the Glob or with CHB, that the writers of the stories/columns never come up with the headline; that is usually the purview of the copy editor.

Not to take any fun out of criticizing Shag, but this one might not be totally on him. Unless it is.
Correct, copy editors do the headlines but there are a very small handful of some (usually big name) columnists who do get to write their own. Maureen Dowd used to be one and I believe Dave Barry was another. Not sure if Dan has that power (I'd guess that he doesn't) but would be interested to know if he does and also who did this awful headline, which I assume was for clickbait.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I think the fact that it was a clickbait headline tells you everything you need to know about the Globe's desperation for people to give a shit about the paper again.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I’m not usually one to come down too hard on Shaughnessy but, headline withstanding, this was a bullshit column that seems to me was spoon fed to him by the Sox higher ups (his literal boss).

Glad to see that the MO of the Sox FO hasn’t changed. Muddy up the waters and grease the wheels before someone leaves town. See Francona, Terry, Garciaparra, Nomar, etc.
 

cornwalls@6

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I’m not usually one to come down too hard on Shaughnessy but, headline withstanding, this was a bullshit column that seems to me was spoon fed to him by the Sox higher ups (his literal boss).

Glad to see that the MO of the Sox FO hasn’t changed. Muddy up the waters and grease the wheels before someone leaves town. See Francona, Terry, Garciaparra, Nomar, etc.
I tend to agree with you on this, but my question is, do they really think it works, or matters, or is necessary? Do they not know the greatly diminished influence and importance of the globe, and most of traditional media for that matter? I've never encountered anyone who thought less of Tito based on Hohlers hatchet job when he left, or was even remotely influenced by anything Shank or others wrote about Nomar after he was traded. I think most fans understand and accept the notion of rooting for the name on the front of the jersey, not the back. So these semi-smear campaigns seem pointless, and needlessly mean-spirited. If anything, I think it sours a lot fans on ownership and the front office, not the targets of these articles.
 

joe dokes

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I tend to agree with you on this, but my question is, do they really think it works, or matters, or is necessary? Do they not know the greatly diminished influence and importance of the globe, and most of traditional media for that matter? I've never encountered anyone who thought less of Tito based on Hohlers hatchet job when he left, or was even remotely influenced by anything Shank or others wrote about Nomar after he was traded. I think most fans understand and accept the notion of rooting for the name on the front of the jersey, not the back. So these semi-smear campaigns seem pointless, and needlessly mean-spirited. If anything, I think it sours a lot fans on ownership and the front office, not the targets of these articles.
While I didn't see this particular piece as a hatchet job at all, I think it probably "works" to the extent that it becomes conventional wisdom among other outlets. In an atmosphere where someone invariably has to take "the other side," this is a script. "Well, sure, Buster, Mookie is a great player, but . . . . . ."

With fans, though, you're probably right. (Except for those remaining fans who take their cues from "sports" "talk" radio; which is where Shaughnessy is able to find examples of the "fans" that think Mookie is better than Babe Ruth.
 

David Kaiser

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Reposting from another forum on the off season.


This morning Dan Shaughnessy, whom I usually respect (partly because he answers emails), argues that Mookie Betts isn't any better than Fred Lynn or Nomar Garciaparra and that he should be traded, as they were when they were about his age. He is totally, completely, demonstrably, absolutely wrong.

It's interesting that Shaughnessy, to make his case, relies almost entirely on traditional statistics. I'm going to be using my own version of WAA (not WAR), which I developed for my book Baseball Greatness, in this post, but any park- and era-adjusted measurement, I am confident, would show the same picture.

A very quick intro here: WAA as I figure it usually is about 2 less than the corresponding WAR. The key threshold that I used in the book is 4 WAA in a year, which is what I call a superstar season. Historically, if you want to reach postseason (and certainly if you want to win more than 95 games) you need at least one player that good. They are rare, and getting rarer.

Here are Fred Lynn's WAA by my method in his years with the Red Sox:

1975 3.9
1976 1.2
1977 0
1978 2.8
1979 6.2
1980 3.2

There are two reasons why some of these figures (especially 1975) are lower than you might think. One is that Fenway gave hitters a much bigger advantage then than it does now. The second is that Michael Humphreys' DRA, incomparably the most accurate historical measurement of fielding, shows that although Lynn could make spectacular catches, he was not on the whole an above average centerfielder. He wasn't bad but he was not gold glove worthy.

Now let's look at Nomar Garciaparra with the Red Sox:

1997 2.1
1998 3.0
1999 4.1
2000 4.3
2001 0.2
2002 3.5
2003 2.4

Nomar, surprisingly, was a more consistent performer than Lynn, although his peak was not as high. After leaving the Red Sox, by the way, Nomar was never better than an average player.

And now, Mookie Betts.

2015 1.7
2016 6.0
2017 3.9
2018 8.1
2019 5.3

Now, if you can look at those figures and tell me that Betts isn't any better than Lynn or Nomar--good luck to you. The 8.1 season two years ago, by the way, ties with Mike Trout (also in 2018) for the best season by any player in the Millennial generation. Trout at the rate he is going will wind up in the top 10-15 players of all time. He has beaten 6 WAA in all but one of his first 8 seasons (and in that one season he missed nearly 1/3 of the year.) I think the only player who has ever had a first 8 seasons that good is Ted Williams. But beyond Trout, Betts is clearly the best player born in the early 1990s. One reason Betts does so well, by the way, is that unlike Lynn, he truly is an outstanding outfielder. (Nomar was an excellent shortstop in two of his early seasons; then he fell to around average.)

Betts's baseball age last year was 26. Here are Carl Yastrzemski's figures through age 26:

1961 -2.4
1962 3.5
1963 5.3
1964 2.6
1965 3.2
1966 5.0

Yaz got the majors earlier than Betts did, started more slowly, and wasn't as consistent in these years as Betts has been. And Yaz proceeded to have his greatest two seasons, 10 and 9.3 WAA, in 1967 and 1968, and he had 7.9 in 1970. Yaz is a much better comp to Betts than Lynn or Nomar.

There is another reason why the Red Sox should give Betts everything he wants to say in Boston. They can very easily improve their roster by switching him to center field. Jackie Bradley Jr. has been about -1 WAA for the last two years and shows no signs of ever being any better than that. The Red Sox should be able to find a good-hitting rightfielder somewhere, and if he earned 2 WAA and they switched Betts to center, then bingo, that's 3 more wins right there.

Based on run differential, the Red Sox are starting 2020 12 games behind the Yankees--and the Yankees had so many injuries that they could easily improve next year. Making up that deficit will be very difficult even with Betts. Without him I see no hope.
 
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cornwalls@6

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While I didn't see this particular piece as a hatchet job at all, I think it probably "works" to the extent that it becomes conventional wisdom among other outlets. In an atmosphere where someone invariably has to take "the other side," this is a script. "Well, sure, Buster, Mookie is a great player, but . . . . . ."

With fans, though, you're probably right. (Except for those remaining fans who take their cues from "sports" "talk" radio; which is where Shaughnessy is able to find examples of the "fans" that think Mookie is better than Babe Ruth.
Yeah, I guess it may not ultimately be about assuaging the anger of fans who might be upset over the departure of a popular player or manager, but rather it's more likely motivated by the desire to get clicks/attention/buzz for their, declining, media property.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I tend to agree with you on this, but my question is, do they really think it works, or matters, or is necessary? Do they not know the greatly diminished influence and importance of the globe, and most of traditional media for that matter?
Among most fans, no, I don't think it really "matters". Most fans don't get their news from the papers any more. However, there are influencers like Shaughnessy who drive the city's sports conversations (Felger is another one). So if you plant a seed that maybe losing Mookie Betts isn't the worst thing in the world (we lost other players! look what losing Harper did for the Nats!) than the next thing you know the groundswell among the LCD is that Mookie is "overrated" (he's not) or that he's "greedy" (again, not) and people are buying Mookie a ticket for a one-way ticket out of town.

We've seen this play out half a dozen times.

And it's just really unnecessary and completely unprofessional to plant stories and/or shit on people who were loyal employees while they are out the door in the hopes of winning some stupid PR war. Francona was probably the best manager this franchise had ever seen, he won two World Series, he had his players' backs, he never colored outside the lines when it came to being lock-step with management (at least publicly) and what did that get him? The guy has been screwing one of the interns and has a pill problem. Same thing with Nomar, along with Pedro, the guy was the face of the franchise in the late 90s/early 00s and was an icon to a set of younger fans. Same thing, the Sox FO shit on him as he left the city.

What's the point?

John Henry spent a lot of September talking about the business of baseball and how he "needs" to reduce payroll, blah, blah, blah. Mookie Betts talks about how baseball is a business and how he wants to get paid and he's the bad guy? Fuck that noise.

While I didn't see this particular piece as a hatchet job at all, I think it probably "works" to the extent that it becomes conventional wisdom among other outlets. In an atmosphere where someone invariably has to take "the other side," this is a script. "Well, sure, Buster, Mookie is a great player, but . . . . . ."
I read most of this piece, but I also skimmed some of it too. In his comparison between Lynn, Nomar and Mookie; I don't think that the CHB really discusses injuries too much. IIRC, he mentions it in passing, but the fact is that Lynn and Nomar were both injured a lot. Nomar missed most of a year with a serious wrist injury and when he came back, he was never the same. The least amount of games that Mookie played (aside from his rookie year) is 135 games.

And comparing him to Ted Williams and Babe Ruth is bush league.

Yes, Boston baseball will go on without Mookie Betts. It's outlasted the careers of Ortiz, Manny, Pedro, Clemens, Boggs, Rice, Evans, Yaz, Tiant, Tony C., Williams, Pesky, Doerr, Foxx, Speaker, Hooper, Ruth and Young. But that's not the point. The point is that the Red Sox absolutely do not have to be in this position that they find themselves in. They practically print money. They play in a region that is crazy for baseball. They are one of the top four franchises in the league. And they're owned by an incredibly wealthy person. The idea that they can't afford Mookie Betts (and JD Martinez, JBJ, etc.) is preposterous. And now we're being told that he's "overrated"?

Again. Fuck that noise.
 

lexrageorge

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Francona's was the only true hatchet job, IMO.

Nomar's trade was as much about upgrading the team's defense for a playoff run as anything else.

This is less a hatchet job than a bunch of trolling nonsense. But, yes, it was planted by Shank's boss.
 

Max Power

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I read most of this piece, but I also skimmed some of it too.
You spent 10 times as long writing a post complaining about the column than it would have taken to actually read the whole thing. That's really fucking weird.

Anyway, yes, he did mention the injuries and they can happen to anyone. Which is why it's generally foolish to hand out a mega-contract. And he isn't calling to trade Betts, contrary to anyone else's misreading of it. Here's the actual quote.

CHB said:
Here’s hoping the Sox sign Betts. But it’s not a disaster if they trade him. Or if he plays out his contract. As so often happens here in New England, Mookie Betts is a tad overrated.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Unless your name is Mr. Kelleher, my high school typing teacher, you have no idea how fast I can type.

Which would be really weird because he’s dead.
 

JimD

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No need to overthink this, IMO - it's much more likely that Dan came up with this on his own to generate controversy and clicks than Sox ownership directed him or the Globe to put this out there.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Shaughnessy can be pretty good in pieces like this where he stays out of the way and lets his subject do the talking. His subject is Manny Ramirez and you should give it a read.
 

Patriot_Reign

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I usually stay away from the Shank stuff, but it's a little uncanny that he pens a Brady is whiny column (anti-Pats) which is immediately followed by a Manny Ramirez ball washing (who owns the Globe?!) column.
Manny did some scummy ass shit here and maybe he's contrite now but hard to imagine an ex Pats player getting a similar reprieve.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I usually stay away from the Shank stuff, but it's a little uncanny that he pens a Brady is whiny column (anti-Pats) which is immediately followed by a Manny Ramirez ball washing (who owns the Globe?!) column.
Manny did some scummy ass shit here and maybe he's contrite now but hard to imagine an ex Pats player getting a similar reprieve.
Did you read the piece at all? It’s all about how Manny found god and has apologized for all the “scummy ass shit” he did. Plus it’s more about how he’s being recognized for the Boston Traditions event, which was held last night.

There is no conspiracy here.
 

joe dokes

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Did you read the piece at all? It’s all about how Manny found god and has apologized for all the “scummy ass shit” he did. Plus it’s more about how he’s being recognized for the Boston Traditions event, which was held last night.

There is no conspiracy here.
I agree.
Actually Manny's been pretty much on the straight and narrow for at least a couple of years now. He was on radio for a few innings with Castig and Neverett (or maybe even the year before Neverett) and it was pretty clear from his comments and the way that they were talking about him that he had turned some kind of corner.
 

wiffleballhero

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FWIW, I am teaching a writing course this semester, stacked with students from New England. Because of an (admittedly easy) exit writing assignment, a bunch of these students are writing about sports writing, as a genre.

I brought up Shaughnessy twice in individual conferences with students both from eastern MA. Neither of them -- and we're talking about all-in Boston sports fans -- had ever heard of him. I took that as both a sign that sometimes there is justice and as yet more evidence that I am wildly not of the same generation as my students. (I skipped discussing Gammons' peculiar use of the ellipse.)