With everyone sitting now, at some point you have to postpose/cancel - to prevent other injuries.
Damar Hamlin is headed home to Buffalo!
- Thread starter cshea
- Start date
Thanks for sharing this. Interesting that baseball, not football, is cited as a more common sport to trigger this. I'll put my hope in this statement from the article: "Currently, the outcome of resuscitation in commotio cordis appears to be very similar to that for resuscitation in other forms of sudden cardiac death." Generally time is of the essence, and obviously they were on him very quickly.
I don’t know man. That sounds more like notifying next of kin/say your goodbyes.
Exactly. They're all clearly shaken. There's nothing to say and no good way to handle this.
Hard to imagine they could play unless they miraculously get confirmation he is OK. Probably should just call the game.
Not a crazy hit or anything, but likely just one of those fluke things that can happen to anyone in a contact sport. 1 in a million situation.
Not a crazy hit or anything, but likely just one of those fluke things that can happen to anyone in a contact sport. 1 in a million situation.
Can we find out if the guy will live before we resume this Game? Until they find out, they can't play tonight.
Roger Goodell is not equipped to make this decision. I hope someone more serious is in charge for the night and he’s out of cell phone range
I assume he means an ambulance on the field that is there to help revive a player. Tough crowd.
I assume they would have a lengthy pre-game to allow time for the players to warm up. That said, I suspect they will not be playing tonight
About a decade ago a Bills players (Kevin Everett) suffered a severe spinal injury and iirc they had certain advanced, possibly experimental medical equipment at the stadium. I would hope they have everything they need for emergency response.
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The twitter posts were providing information -- unless of course you don't trust the Fox News reporter.
The right decision is so easy and so obvious. Call the game. It's both the right choice, and what will be the popular choice.
Someone with empathy and judgment—-he has neither. This is bigger than the TV product tonight.
A blow to the chest can cause sudden, cardiac death. It’s called commotio cordis. Essentially, the trauma causes a brief electrical spike. If it happens during a particular point of the cardiac cycle, it can stop the heart immediately. It is much much more common in young children due to the increased compliance of the chest wall. Most cases that I’ve ever heard of occur with a strike to the sternum, usually a punch or a ball – like in baseball or lacrosse.
It’s extremely rare. Only about 10 to 20 cases a year are reported. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a case in anyone over the age of 20 years of age. Every case I’ve heard of, or attended to, involved baseball. I would think shoulder pads would prevent the anterior chest from this type of injury. Modern pads cover the upper/mid sternum and anterior chest. Resuscitation was historically dismal, but that has improved with better recognition. There is some speculation that certain individuals are more predisposed given a possible underlying dysrhythmia. The variables that are necessary for this to occur include the shape of the projectile, the velocity and timing of the incident. Without going into the specifics of the cardiac electrical cycle and repolarization, the most common underlying dysrhythmias include long QT syndrome, and a condition called Brugada syndrome.
A blow to the chest does transmit electrical activity through the chest wall into the heart. If this occurs, it creates an electrical spike which (if timed to occur exactly) can cause a "R on T phenomena". The waves of the EKG are labelled PQRST (U). This causes ventricular fibrillation which must be immediately electrically corrected (defibrillation) or else the heart will stop. Whenever I’m at the bedside and a patient’s heart stops (rare, but it happens enough) the quickest way I have to get it restarted is a thump, essentially a punch into the chest of the patient. It is thought that a normal punch to the chest confers approximately 2-5 J of energy. A punch, hit, ball, etc is more like 20-40J. Enough to stop the heart if it happens at the precise wrong time. To be clear, this is an enormously rare event. Just an awful situation. Defibrillation will almost surely save him if that's the issue. I'm sure the med staff on the field know this stuff cold and the defibrillators are all right there.
Edit: Docsplaining, clarity
It’s extremely rare. Only about 10 to 20 cases a year are reported. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a case in anyone over the age of 20 years of age. Every case I’ve heard of, or attended to, involved baseball. I would think shoulder pads would prevent the anterior chest from this type of injury. Modern pads cover the upper/mid sternum and anterior chest. Resuscitation was historically dismal, but that has improved with better recognition. There is some speculation that certain individuals are more predisposed given a possible underlying dysrhythmia. The variables that are necessary for this to occur include the shape of the projectile, the velocity and timing of the incident. Without going into the specifics of the cardiac electrical cycle and repolarization, the most common underlying dysrhythmias include long QT syndrome, and a condition called Brugada syndrome.
A blow to the chest does transmit electrical activity through the chest wall into the heart. If this occurs, it creates an electrical spike which (if timed to occur exactly) can cause a "R on T phenomena". The waves of the EKG are labelled PQRST (U). This causes ventricular fibrillation which must be immediately electrically corrected (defibrillation) or else the heart will stop. Whenever I’m at the bedside and a patient’s heart stops (rare, but it happens enough) the quickest way I have to get it restarted is a thump, essentially a punch into the chest of the patient. It is thought that a normal punch to the chest confers approximately 2-5 J of energy. A punch, hit, ball, etc is more like 20-40J. Enough to stop the heart if it happens at the precise wrong time. To be clear, this is an enormously rare event. Just an awful situation. Defibrillation will almost surely save him if that's the issue. I'm sure the med staff on the field know this stuff cold and the defibrillators are all right there.
Edit: Docsplaining, clarity
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Cancel the game...it is not a hard decision at all at this point. Who is going to criticize that call after what we just watched?
All of the data surrounding traumatic injuries indicates response time makes all of the difference. They got to him quickly. I pray this makes a difference for him.
Every NFL reporter I follow on Twitter, including a few from NFLN, seems to feel this game shouldn’t resume. And Booger just came out and said as much on ESPN.
Absent unequivocal evidence that Hamlin is going to be ok, I don’t see this game resuming.
Absent unequivocal evidence that Hamlin is going to be ok, I don’t see this game resuming.
He definitely absorbed the hit in his chest, not saying this is what it is.
In case anyone is interested -- fantastic piece on Fabrice Muamba, who suffered cardiac arrest on the pitch in an English soccer game a decade ago and survived.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/mar/25/muamba-collapse-minute-by-minute
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/mar/25/muamba-collapse-minute-by-minute
Aren't there meds or combinations of meds that in crease the interval, and increase the risk of this?
On these often they can do anything they could do at the hospital in the ambulance. I know when Fabrice Muamba collapsed in an FA cup match, they had him in the ambulance and worked on him for a long while before going to the hospital, was like 50 minutes between collapsing and getting to the hospital. Was 78 minutes before his heart started beating again.
Dude, it was a poor gamethread crack and given this injury I feel awful. I wasn't actually rooting for anyone to get seriously hurt.
I have a lot of insider knowledge on Adam Silver. He would have already canceled, I’m positive.
I don't know the specifics in this case, but no lights AND no sirens is not usually a good sign.
The league did tell them they have 5 min to warm up so clearly not the League Office.
Damn near anyone on this board could make the right call here. Unless they have clear info that he's going to be okay, and we just don't know it, this is easy.
No, I get it. I’m barking into the ocean wishing we lived in a culture where everyone would let these stories play out before posting what “ they’re told”, etc.
Cancel? Postpone? Big playoff implications and while everyone is sympathetic today and of course it’s all that matters it will be a shitshow if the first round bye is affected by this
I wondered for a second if it might have been tamponade, but presumably if that were the case he wouldn't have a pulse without a pericardiocentesis so I think this makes more sense.
The only thing I know for sure is that whoever thought it was a good idea to try and restart the game after five minutes is a fucking moron.
I once had a pretty morbid book titled Death at the Ballpark. It catalogued every known death of a player, staff, or fan at a baseball game from the professional level on down to little league.
What you described is exactly what was responsible for the death of Barry Babcock - the first Little League player to die in a game. It's horrifying.
I mean you postpone the game tonight. You wait overnight for any news and then you act accordingly.
the key is send everyone home now.
Cancel for now, figure out the rest later. Play tomorrow, call it a tie--whatever--but make the obvious call now.
Let the people in the stands go home.
First thing I thought of was Chris Pronger going into cardiac arrest after getting hit in the chest with the puck years ago. Hope this has a similar outcome to that.