Damar Hamlin is headed home to Buffalo!

[chechusma]

Not to be snarky here but if you need cpr and don’t get it your survival rate is 0%

cpr is not like on TV shows, something momentously bad has happened to you to need cpr , it’s a heroic last ditch effort to maintain a minimal amount of oxygen flowing to your brain and major organs until we fix what went wrong

(didn’t save the right quote but)

the (unrealistic) depiction of survival rates following CPR on TV shows has been studied (and lamented as it gives patients families unreasonable expectations), including this excellent article from the 1990s which made it to the New England Journal:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199606133342406

Upshot is that ~70% surival is not in line with the reality of 10-15%




Also, want to echo everyone’s support of getting CPR trained. I can’t tell you how many (or the percentage) of neurologically favorable survivors I have had probably owe that to chest compressions done effectively/immediately by a lay bystander.

the other thing to mention is that you don’t really have to worry about doing it at the wrong time etc. I’m sure Fisk and others can attest that we see are numerous cases each year (Maybe even monthly) where someone faints, is really asleep or drunk, etc and a bystander gives them CPR. You won’t kill someone. Usually if they aren’t dead they wake up pretty fast or moan or make some obvious signal that you should stop. Maybe they get a few broken ribs. But this is one of the reasons that they removed “checking for a carotid pulse” from the training for bystander CPR.

Final PSA - particularly for those who have their CPR/BLS training already. Consider taking the online or in person “Stop the bleed” training for lay people, offered by the American college of Surgeons. This is similar in depth to CPR training but teaches how to limit massive hemorrhage (ie, after mass shooting event, car accidents, even work related injuries etc). It is probably equally likely to help you save a life. The online class at least is free (though hands on is always better):

https://www.stopthebleed.org/

 

[Arroyoyo]

It also had big implications for playoff seeding heading into this weekend. My guess is they have to consult with lots of parties as they handle this.

Yeah totally understood. It’s not an easy call at all. But these guys need some space for a bit and it’d be silly to restart the game.

Maybe the NFL can do something creative, silly, and fun for once, just in this instance, and have Burrow play Allen in Madden in a couple of weeks to determine the game, air it on ESPN, and donate all proceeds to Hamlin and his family.

Then call it a day. I know, NFL outcomes are serious biz and what I’m suggesting is too outside the box, but to have these teams replay the game in the coming weeks just seems crazy to me.

 

[bakahump]

I coach MS football. Really not sure if I can continue doing so.

I Always realized that the game was violent and dangerous at all levels, even at that young age. (maybe more so due to the size discrepancy of kids...) . I have occasionally been out of step with coaches about safety, Preferring to hold a player out for instance. So I always liked to think I tried to have my players best interest at heart, But I didnt. I failed on occasion in the heat of the moment and tried to learn and be better from it. Luckily I had never had a player experience an truly "bad" injury. I wasnt perfect but realize I needed to try to be for these kids health. From managing injuries to teaching them the safest proper technique.

But last night gutted me. Both players did nothing truly "Wrong". It would be a different reaction (totally not saying it would be a "He deserved it" reaction.....just different) had Hamlin lead with his head and was facing paralysis. It would be different if Higgins had done something "Dirty" or "extreme" (like driving his helmet into the chest). Neither thing happened. Both did what any reasonable coach (and their coaches probably did) from Pee wee on up, would have TAUGHT and EXPECTED them to do to be safe and effective at the game of football in that situation. Run through your pads. Go as low as possible and wrap up (5 point form tackle etc etc). And by, and despite, doing so a young man (almost a child really....I turned 50 last week...and thats weighing heavily on all this) could well die or have his life ruined. They were doing exactly what they were told to do....by coaches. Often telling them "This will keep you safe." So we as coaches may well have been lying the whole time, at every level.

I could relate why both staffs (as well as his teammates obviously) could be shaken.

My freshmen didnt play FB this year choosing to Coach shadow and film (During games/practices, film breakdown drill setup etc etc). He is 5'4 and 100 lbs. He was 5'2 and 90 lbs of ferocious safety in MS. I saw him absorb that exact same kind of hit a dozen times from kids north of 150 lbs. Always falling backwards....all while making the tackle. Through the grace of fate or god or luck...Something like this didnt happen to him. That kills me. And it kills me that another kid could not be as lucky. I hope my son never plays another football game despite his love of the game.

I know dangers always existed and I didnt ignore it or disregard those concerns last week. I actually thought I was doing well trying to protect kids from those dangers.....but this week they are tangible...

Thanks to all the expertise trying to keep us informed.

 

[Euclis20]

Not to be snarky here but if you need cpr and don’t get it your survival rate is 0%

cpr is not like on TV shows, something momentously bad has happened to you to need cpr , it’s a heroic last ditch effort to maintain a minimal amount of oxygen flowing to your brain and major organs until we fix what went wrong

Yup, that I get. I'm wondering if the the 10-15% includes those that don't even receive it. Pulling numbers completely out of my ass, if the survival rate of everyone needing CPR was 10-15% and 50% of people who need CPR actually get it, that would mean that the survival rate of those that actually receive CPR would be 20-30%.

 

[PrometheusWakefield]

It's funny to hear people suggest a position (as today's Boston Globe does) suggesting that compared to the value of a human life, the NFL doesn't really matter. Which is true of course but clearly the logical conclusion of this sentiment is that there should be no NFL at all. This is a sport clearly meant to simulate and prepare people for war. Kids in sunbelt states die every year of heatstroke during summer football practices. Casualties are inevitable.

This feels like another important data point on the way to the inevitable and impossible end of football

 

[radsoxfan]

Yup, that I get. I'm wondering if the the 10-15% includes those that don't even receive it. Pulling numbers completely out of my ass, if the survival rate of everyone needing CPR was 10-15% and 50% of people who need CPR actually get it, that would mean that the survival rate of those that actually receive CPR would be 20-30%.

See my post above... but you're correct that it's about 50% that need it actually get it.

About 4% survive if they need CPR and don't get it vs 10-15% survive if you need CPR and do get it.

 

[Marciano490]

It's funny to hear people suggest a position (as today's Boston Globe does) suggesting that compared to the value of a human life, the NFL doesn't really matter. Which is true of course but clearly the logical conclusion of this sentiment is that there should be no NFL at all. This is a sport clearly meant to simulate and prepare people for war. Kids in sunbelt states die every year of heatstroke during summer football practices. Casualties are inevitable.

It does feel like the NFL is between a rock and a hard place on this but this really does seem like another important data point on the way to the inevitable and impossible end of football

Weird timing. I was just coming to post that I found it interesting I hadn’t heard more calls for the reevaluation of football as a viable sport. Maybe because the injury was so random and didn’t involve a head or a neck or even crazy speeds or collisions.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

A "tie" moves the Bills back to the #2 seed, and puts KC on top. That means the Bills return to KC in the AFCCG, where they have been knocked out of the playoffs in each of the past 2 years.

Not sure how that's fair to Buffalo.

No idea what the NFL is going to do, but it's really a no win situation for everyone involved.

Because a tie decision would most negatively affect Buffalo, I think ultimately the decision should be taken with lots of consultation with Buffalo.

Might be best to let week 18 go on as usual, and then see afterwards if 1) the Buffalo-Cincy game result is even needed to determine playoff positions and the bye; and 2) Buffalo still want to play for that advantage given all that they've been through.

 

[radsoxfan]

Weird timing. I was just coming to post that I found it interesting I hadn’t heard more calls for the reevaluation of football as a viable sport. Maybe because the injury was so random and didn’t involve a head or a neck or even crazy speeds or collisions.

Like you said, I think something like this goes into the category of randomness more than the viability of football as a sport. Things like this can happen in hockey, baseball, lacrosse, basketball etc. People get elbowed in the chest playing basketball in the post or under the basket harder than this without any padding and nothing usually happens.

Plenty of issues re: head injuries, spine risk etc that can make people question playing tackle football. But I think this is mostly a terrible unforeseen combination of events/bad luck rather than something inherently wrong with the NFL.

 

[IdiotKicker]

Weird timing. I was just coming to post that I found it interesting I hadn’t heard more calls for the reevaluation of football as a viable sport. Maybe because the injury was so random and didn’t involve a head or a neck or even crazy speeds or collisions.

I think it’s probably because of the non-football-specific nature of this. When I was 10 or 11, the older brother of a classmate had this exact thing happen to him during a high school lacrosse game, and he ended up dying from it as a result. Wasn’t a vicious lacrosse hit or anything - he literally just got hit in the chest with a ball he missed catching and it caused his heart to stop from exactly the mechanism described upthread. I mean, this could happen in just about any sport with something in motion that has the potential to hit your chest. I think there are plenty of reasons for football’s eventual demise, but this one is so fluky that to examine the root cause of it would require us to wonder whether even “non-contact” sports like baseball or squash are worth playing.

 

[8slim]

Weird timing. I was just coming to post that I found it interesting I hadn’t heard more calls for the reevaluation of football as a viable sport. Maybe because the injury was so random and didn’t involve a head or a neck or even crazy speeds or collisions.

I suspect it's due to your last sentence. In this thread people have posted news items of deaths in youth baseball and lacrosse, likely caused by the same freak impact we saw last night. Last year a teenage hockey player from a town near me died on ice when an opponent accidentally skated over his neck. No one was clamoring for 'reevaluating those sports, since the tragedies were remarkably rare.

Obviously football has a TON of issues, and the scrutiny it receives is justified. But honestly someone using this situation as rationale for "reevaluating" the sport seems like opportunism and agenda-pushing to me. I've likely watched parts of thousands of football games in my life, and I've never seen something like this.

 

[trekfan55]

I coach MS football. Really not sure if I can continue doing so.

I Always realized that the game was violent and dangerous at all levels, even at that young age. (maybe more so due to the size discrepancy of kids...) . I have occasionally been out of step with coaches about safety, Preferring to hold a player out for instance. So I always liked to think I tried to have my players best interest at heart, But I didnt. I failed on occasion in the heat of the moment and tried to learn and be better from it. Luckily I had never had a player experience an truly "bad" injury. I wasnt perfect but realize I needed to try to be for these kids health. From managing injuries to teaching them the safest proper technique.

But last night gutted me. Both players did nothing truly "Wrong". It would be a different reaction (totally not saying it would be a "He deserved it" reaction.....just different) had Hamlin lead with his head and was facing paralysis. It would be different if Higgins had done something "Dirty" or "extreme" (like driving his helmet into the chest). Neither thing happened. Both did what any reasonable coach (and their coaches probably did) from Pee wee on up, would have TAUGHT and EXPECTED them to do to be safe and effective at the game of football in that situation. Run through your pads. Go as low as possible and wrap up (5 point form tackle etc etc). And by, and despite, doing so a young man (almost a child really....I turned 50 last week...and thats weighing heavily on all this) could well die or have his life ruined. They were doing exactly what they were told to do....by coaches. Often telling them "This will keep you safe." So we as coaches may well have been lying the whole time, at every level.

I could relate why both staffs (as well as his teammates obviously) could be shaken.

My freshmen didnt play FB this year choosing to Coach shadow and film (During games/practices, film breakdown drill setup etc etc). He is 5'4 and 100 lbs. He was 5'2 and 90 lbs of ferocious safety in MS. I saw him absorb that exact same kind of hit a dozen times from kids north of 150 lbs. Always falling backwards....all while making the tackle. Through the grace of fate or god or luck...Something like this didnt happen to him. That kills me. And it kills me that another kid could not be as lucky. I hope my son never plays another football game despite his love of the game.

I know dangers always existed and I didnt ignore it or disregard those concerns last week. I actually thought I was doing well trying to protect kids from those dangers.....but this week they are tangible...

Thanks to all the expertise trying to keep us informed.

While I understand what you are feeling I think you are being too hard on yourself.

What happened here may very well be a one in a million thing. We will at some point get a better understanding of what happened, maybe. But for now, I at least feel less bad that tjis injury happened when both players did what they were supposed to do and trained to do. From what we learned in this thread, this was something that needed a million to one odds of happening. Of course we may later find out it's something else.

 

[Marciano490]

I suspect it's due to your last sentence. In this thread people have posted news items of deaths in youth baseball and lacrosse, likely caused by the same freak impact we saw last night. Last year a teenage hockey player from a town near me died on ice when an opponent accidentally skated over his neck. No one was clamoring for 'reevaluating those sports, since the tragedies were remarkably rare.

Obviously football has a TON of issues, and the scrutiny it receives is justified. But honestly someone using this situation as rationale for "reevaluating" the sport seems like opportunism and agenda-pushing to me. I've likely watched parts of thousands of football games in my life, and I've never seen something like this.

I wouldn’t necessarily call it opportunism. I’m entirely ambivalent about violent sports. I boxed and enjoyed that freedom, but also watched two friends die from injuries sustained in the ring.

 

[MetSox1]

If the NFL wasn't a business... I'd say figure out the very few viable options. Put them in front of both teams captains and let the players lead.

Hell, even as a business, that would be very good optics. Assuming they play it, it'll be in a special time slot and one of the most watched games in years. The people who want to make money will, even if one option might be slightly more profitable than the other, the optics and good will likely take care of any possible gap in the long run.

 

[8slim]

I wouldn’t necessarily call it opportunism. I’m entirely ambivalent about violent sports. I boxed and enjoyed that freedom, but also watched two friends die from injuries sustained in the ring.

Fair. Maybe that's a poor choice of words. I guess I'd say that the multiple, vicious head shots I saw on Saturday and Sunday this past weekend would be bar more legitimate fodder for reevaluating football than what happened last night.

 

[snowmanny]

Yeah totally understood. It’s not an easy call at all. But these guys need some space for a bit and it’d be silly to restart the game.

Maybe the NFL can do something creative, silly, and fun for once, just in this instance, and have Burrow play Allen in Madden in a couple of weeks to determine the game, air it on ESPN, and donate all proceeds to Hamlin and his family.

Then call it a day. I know, NFL outcomes are serious biz and what I’m suggesting is too outside the box, but to have these teams replay the game in the coming weeks just seems crazy to me.

The NFL should do something "silly and fun" as a response to a tragedy?

 

[RobertS975]

That's a really interesting possibility and while super, super rare MAY be statistically more likely due to a blunt chest injury causing a primary cardiac injury. That could cause tamponade. Damaged/torn muscle, intact pericardium. Hope not, much, much harder to treat - have to crack his chest. Had a case 2 years ago of blunt atrial rupture after a car accident. Tamponade, classic signs. Thought of needling his pericardium (would have killed him outright - I have nightmares) but bedside ultrasound showed an atrial clot (which saved his life). Went to OR and cardiothoracic surgeon (who happened to be there for another case - a miracle) repaired his atrial tear - went home 5 days later. Gnarly.

Aortic injury/tear
Pulmonary vascular injury (Bledsoe)
Cardiac dysthymia unrelated to trauma (I haven't seen play)
Tension pneumothorax
Just horrible. Hoping for a great save.

Good differential diagnosis but all the traumatic causes would have taken a bit longer to play out. Ventricular fibrillation due to commotio cordis is the best fit. A few seconds of useful consciousness allowed him to stand up, and then he fell like a rock, no effort to protect himself.

 

[joe dokes]

If the NFL wasn't a business... I'd say figure out the very few viable options. Put them in front of both teams captains and let the players lead.

I just had lunch with someone I hadn't seen in a while. The conversation got around to her current gig and why she likes her bosses. She said something she heard in the Army stuck with her: "good leadership requires the ability to follow" or something like that. The bolded would be an example of that. Leadership by the NFL by allowing the players to lead.

 

[Hoya81]

View: https://twitter.com/dvnjr/status/1610354785114329088?s=46&t=jPCQi5MGYB28-L9afwctNw

ESPN statement seems to back up that the broadcast crew was told that play would resume after a 5 min break.

 

[Arroyoyo]

The NFL should do something "silly and fun" as a response to a tragedy?

To raise money for Hamlin and his family and let it be a sign of goodwill and humanity between all involved?

Yes.

Or just play the game. Soon, because: playoffs! Because this is just that important. I’m sure every tackle right by where Hamlin dropped to the turf unconscious with an unbeating heart days prior won’t psychologically destroy these human beings or anything.

 

[cheekydave]

not a doctor here, just an historian who has read a lot of medical history. The name of Hubert Rosomoff comes up a lot…a pioneer (I believe?) in medical uses of hypothermia. He died maybe 10-15 years ago, so relatively recently. But I think observations of the benefits of cold go back all the way to the big H(ippocrates). Cool stuff.

Ed: should have checked before I posted, but Rosomoff was a big deal in his field. I’m sure the amazing physicians here know all this, so excuse this lay-doctor’s interruption! Thanks for all the insight in this thread.

Totally off topic, but I had always believed much of the original data on how extreme cold impacts humans, frostbite ,and recovering from freezing was due to the atrocities the Japanese executed experimenting on prisoners during the ww2 Period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

I think they'll get the game in come hell or high water. We've seen players lauded as "warriors" for committing to the sport in the face of death e.g. the death of Brett Favre's dad. If there's a positive turn in Hamlin's outlook, I could see the Bills using this tragedy as a rallying cry. The hyper-macho nature of football is that you don't back down in the face of adversity because backing down is the coward's way. I'm honestly surprised I haven't read any hot takes from some CTE-addled old-timer about how the players were p***ies for not playing last night.

 

[steveluck7]

View: https://twitter.com/dvnjr/status/1610354785114329088?s=46&t=jPCQi5MGYB28-L9afwctNw

ESPN statement seems to back up that the broadcast crew was told that play would resume after a 5 min break.

This seems strange and has potential to needlessly prolong a PR headache.

why not just say that there was miscommunication along the line and Buck was relaying information regarding the standard procedures for restarting after a delay, not that this was the casein last nights game.

 

[genoasalami]

Why are people dissecting "the game will start in 5 minutes" portion of this? The injury JUST HAPPENED. Maybe it is SOP to wait 5 minutes to start the game after a serious injury. The bottom line? The game did not restart...that is all that matters..people always need something to bitch about

 

[Bowhemian]

View: https://twitter.com/dvnjr/status/1610354785114329088?s=46&t=jPCQi5MGYB28-L9afwctNw

ESPN statement seems to back up that the broadcast crew was told that play would resume after a 5 min break.

This isn't a dig on you, but who cares and why does this matter?
I get that it was a thing in real time last night. But the situation was very fluid and sometimes stuff happens and people say the wrong thing, or they say one thing and mean another.

 

[Marciano490]

Why are people dissecting "the game will start in 5 minutes" portion of this? The injury JUST HAPPENED. Maybe it is SOP to wait 5 minutes to start the game after a serious injury. The bottom line? The game did not restart...that is all that matters..people always need something to bitch about

The issue I think is whether the league was actually planning to have them restart before the coaches and players intervened.

 

[genoasalami]

The issue I think is whether the league was actually planning to have them restart before the coaches and players intervened.

As it all unfolded they never came close to restarting the game. It wasn't like the league was pushing the players to their respective sidelines...

 

[Hoya81]

This isn't a dig on you, but who cares and why does this matter?
I get that it was a thing in real time last night. But the situation was very fluid and sometimes stuff happens and people say the wrong thing, or they say one thing and mean another.

I don’t disagree that things get confused in real-time but Troy Vincent coming out and saying that the league never wanted to restart play seems strange when they could have just acknowledged that it was a confusing situation.

 

[canderson]

Has it been reported that they lost Damar a 2nd time in the ambulance?

 

[cornwalls@6]

The issue I think is whether the league was actually planning to have them restart before the coaches and players intervened.

In a way, that might be a positive reflection on the league, if it’s how it happened. They had a procedure in place, but the people on the ground most affected by it intervened, and the league listened, and course corrected.

 

[Steve Dillard]

See my post above... but you're correct that it's about 50% that need it actually get it.

About 4% survive if they need CPR and don't get it vs 10-15% survive if you need CPR and do get it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/07/are-doctors-more-likely-to-refuse-cpr/260381/

Do doctors respond to the prospect of their own deaths differently from the way other people do? That's what Dr. Ken Murray, a clinical assistant professor of family medicine at USC, suggested last November in a heartfelt, provocative, and immensely popular essay called "How Doctors Die." He's followed that up this week with "Doctors Really Do Die Differently," which includes some interesting data to back up his previous argument. Here are the highlights:

Do doctors' wishes regarding end-of-life care differ from ours? Murray cites a mid-20th century study of Johns Hopkins medical students showing that 65 percent had prepared legal instructions describing the kind of care they wanted to receive in their final days. Only 20 percent of Americans have planned so far ahead, Murray adds.

Are doctors more likely to refuse revival in the event of cardiac arrest? In the Hopkins study, 90 percent of doctors said they'd rather die by cardiac arrest than be resuscitated. Only a quarter of the public feels the same way.

Do doctors know something we don't about the miracles of CPR? In one Japanese study of 95,000 CPR cases, just eight percent of patients survived for longer than a month after being revived.

There's no question that CPR helps save lives; but whether revival is always the right choice is a different matter:

Well-meaning CPR advocates talk in terms of "survival," but all the term means is that the heart again beats on its own. In the above example, survival was 11 percent, but "survival" as often understood by the public -- regaining a reasonable quality of life -- was zero.

The entire essay is definitely worth a read.

 

[Arroyoyo]

Has it been reported that they lost Damar a 2nd time in the ambulance?

Can you share your source?

Wouldn’t this put into question the idea of commotio cordis as it would be a second, separate, non-contact event?

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

This isn't a dig on you, but who cares and why does this matter?
I get that it was a thing in real time last night. But the situation was very fluid and sometimes stuff happens and people say the wrong thing, or they say one thing and mean another.

I think with Vincent's denial of the 5-minute situation it conversely makes it sound like Buck was talking out his ass. ESPN just wanted to back their guy up on record. As always, it is the league office's strong-arm statement that makes other parties have to continue the conversation.

Vincent said the NFL took no steps toward restarting the game and did not ask players to begin a five-minute warmup period as ESPN’s broadcasters had announced. “It never crossed our mind to talk about warming up to resume play,” Vincent said. “That’s ridiculous. That’s insensitive. That’s not a place we should ever be in.”

 

[mr_smith02]

To raise money for Hamlin and his family and let it be a sign of goodwill and humanity between all involved?

Yes.

Or just play the game. Soon, because: playoffs! Because this is just that important. I’m sure every tackle right by where Hamlin dropped to the turf unconscious with an unbeating heart days prior won’t psychologically destroy these human beings or anything.

You realize you can come here and just read the posts...you are not required to keep posting non-sensical ideas and then be snide when you are called out on it.

Can you share your source?

Wouldn’t this put into question the idea of commotio cordis as it would be a second, separate, non-contact event?

If you read the OP he asked if had been reported, so he would not have a source.

 

[8slim]

I think with Vincent's denial of the 5-minute situation it conversely makes it sound like Buck was talking out his ass. ESPN just wanted to back their guy up on record. As always, it is the league office's strong-arm statement that makes other parties have to continue the conversation.

Yep. Everyone saw Diggs trying to psych his team back up to play. So it seems likely that someone told the Bills that play was going to resume, unless Diggs just assumed that on his own.

It was resolved in the way that was humane and right, which is what matters. But as you said, it's not surprising that a media entity who's taking heat is going to clarify things.

 

[trekfan55]

It can be both.

Maybe officials said "5 minutes and we restart" and some players reacted.
Then coaches got involved, and higher up officials also got involved and they did not restart and the players were taken off the field and so on.

The only issue is that since Buck said 5 minutes, now it's either they scapegoat someone or they say Buck was talking out of his ass. ESPN will not let the latter happen methinks.

 

[Arroyoyo]

You realize you can come here and just read the posts...you are not required to keep posting non-sensical ideas and then be snide when you are called out on it.



If you read the OP he asked if had been reported, so he would not have a source.

And in your second snide paragraph, you assume he hadn’t read it somewhere. I was asking for that clarification.

Egregious, I know.

As for trying to settle the game in an unconventional way that would raise money for him and his family while not psychologically breaking these guys any further: I’m sorry the concept so deeply offended you that you had to post to express your displeasure, shortly after telling me not to post nonsense.

 

[Arroyoyo]

It can be both.

Maybe officials said "5 minutes and we restart" and some players reacted.
Then coaches got involved, and higher up officials also got involved and they did not restart and the players were taken off the field and so on.

The only issue is that since Buck said 5 minutes, now it's either they scapegoat someone or they say Buck was talking out of his ass. ESPN will not let the latter happen methinks.

It’s pretty clear the league indicated in some way they wanted to resume play. They may or may not have been aware, when first determining that, of the criticality of Hamlin’s condition. Then, once they were, the coaches made the decision for them.

The NFL sucks. It’s run by shitbags. We all know this. We don’t need further evidence. This story, IMO, is just distracting from the more important conversation: what happened and how can the league work to prevent it from happening again?

 

[macal]

Has it been reported that they lost Damar a 2nd time in the ambulance?

Interesting that you're asking this. My first thought when I saw that the ambulance was sitting outside the stadium waiting for Damar Hamlin's mother, was that something else was going on inside the ambulance. This was also reinforced when I read that a moving ambulance isn't the best place to be performing CPR. I can't imagine with the seriousness of the situation, that the ambulance would wait for his mother outside the stadium.

 

[tbb345]

I don’t disagree that things get confused in real-time but Troy Vincent coming out and saying that the league never wanted to restart play seems strange when they could have just acknowledged that it was a confusing situation.

Yeah, exactly.

I don’t really think anyone is dunking on the NFL either? At least from what I’ve read.

 

[Cellar-Door]

My best guess is that the refs told the teams that they get 5 minutes to warm up, meaning if the game is continued that is the usual policy, not "we're re-starting this in 5 minutes, get warm"

 

[Valek123]

Yes, they did use an AED in addition to CPR.

Every single person reading this thread should have CPR training. There is literally no reason to not get it. Even if you are not certified you can get it online, which is better than nothing.

This, this 100%.
I volunteer as an EMT in my local community and if one thing can happen to change future outcomes it’s learning CPR.

Take the class, be prepared to help a loved one or complete stranger. Early notification to 911 to get help started, access to good quality CPR and ideally quick access to a AED makes an unbelievable difference in outcomes.

If every member in addition to considering donating to his charity also spends an afternoon getting CPR certified his legacy will be saved lives.

If you are anywhere near the Upper Valley in NH/VT and want to get connected to make this happen hit me up in a PM.

 

[mauf]

Yeah, exactly.

I don’t really think anyone is dunking on the NFL either? At least from what I’ve read.

People were ragging on the NFL (unfairly imo) last night for not calling off the game sooner. The criticism I’ve seen today has been exclusively about Vincent’s statement.

 

[mr_smith02]

View: https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1610379276645187589?s=20&t=Ihlg1qjNW782HZqSqP5-iQ

 

[McBride11]

This, this 100%.
I volunteer as an EMT in my local community and if one thing can happen to change future outcomes it’s learning CPR.

Take the class, be prepared to help a loved one or complete stranger. Early notification to 911 to get help started, access to good quality CPR and ideally quick access to a AED makes an unbelievable difference in outcomes.

If every member in addition to considering donating to his charity also spends an afternoon getting CPR certified his legacy will be saved lives.

If you are anywhere near the Upper Valley in NH/VT and want to get connected to make this happen hit me up in a PM.

I am not disagreeing. It is a basic skill that has been continually simplified (with better outcomes).

What I wonder is if Joe Doe will actually do the compressions needed. Not that they dont want to, but cracking a sternum is kinda difficult. (Oh lord the med shows when they are bending elbows for compressions. )

I agree everyone should know cpr. But i wonder if compressions on a cpr dummy add up to actual compressions.

aeds are awesome, but there are what 2 shockable rhythyms?


I 110% support everyone getting cpr trained. I just wonder the quality

 

[RedOctober3829]

View: https://twitter.com/coleyharvey/status/1610424632485773312?s=46&t=Ru7hw3VeN8UEmRu29i3zHA

 

[AlNipper49]

I do not understand the implications of having to be resuscitated twice after having CPR performed by professionals for 9 minutes (or more) prior and having lung damage be the concern. I am, admittedly, ignorant about the process though.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I do not understand the implications of having to be resuscitated twice after having CPR performed by professionals for 9 minutes (or more) prior and having lung damage be the concern. I am, admittedly, ignorant about the process though.

Worse than being resuscitated once, much worse than zero times, but better than three or more*.

*Not a doctor

 

[Gash Prex]

Seems like some positive news

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/CameronWolfe/status/1610435568395079682

 

[CaptainLaddie]

I do not understand the implications of having to be resuscitated twice after having CPR performed by professionals for 9 minutes (or more) prior and having lung damage be the concern. I am, admittedly, ignorant about the process though.

Being on a vent can damage your lungs, too.