C's pick Aaron Nesmith #14 overall

benhogan

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Yeah, I haven't give up on this season, though things are looking bleak, but Nesmith's emergence gives me hope for 2021-22 and beyond.
Nesmith, Pritchard and TimeLord are some bright spots this season. Just play them Brad!
There are some very faint glimmers of hope next season with a healthier Romeo (+Yam & a fitter Grant :eek:).

Starting this Summer I'd like Danny to fill out the rest of the roster with vets. Usually, I'm loath to dealing draft picks but I wouldn't mind if he starts packaging 1sts to upgrade 1-2 rotational/starting spots to build around the Jays.
 
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radsoxfan

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I wonder whether, in the entire history of the world, anyone has disliked anything as much as you appear to dislike Romeo Langford as a basketball player.
I can unequivocally say this is incorrect.

Just keeping things to me and this year’s Celtics team rather than all people in the history of the world.... I dislike Grant as a player more than Romeo :).

I’ve consistently agreed with the many caveats for why Romeo’s season doesn’t sink his chances to be a useful player. But it’s also OK to be realistic and admit that offensively he has been putrid this season.
 

reggiecleveland

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Does any dislike compare to the free agent or trade acquisition that misses their first two shots? I mean the first round pick that is not 20-10-5 by 2nd year, is highly disliked, but I still think the free agent that is not a s good as players at the same position making twice as much money. Man that guy gets it.
 

ifmanis5

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I hated Marcus Banks so much. He still makes me mad when I think about all his pointless drives to nowhere.

Summer League is back this August. Nesmith and Romeo could really use the burn.
 

Jimbodandy

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Don't ask me, ask the National Media Reporter!

(In all seriousness, it looks a bit better on D, and miles better on offense. It's hard for me to see it as a potential career-breaker in any way.)
This is a great assessment imo. Footwork is definitely better. Hard to assess how much of it is technique improvements and how much is simply Nesmith keeping the gas pedal to the floor for every second that he's out there. But no question, his awkwardness is less and some of that is better footwork.

Clearly he has improved offensively, and that is not just balls going through hoops finally. The game has slowed down. He is showing a good feel for things there. Confidence follows. It's all good stuff on that end.
 

reggiecleveland

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It is a technique complement, meaning he can slide, keep in front people longer. It is like "hit the fastball" or "throwing strikes". Something simple you want everyone to do, but everyone in fact cannot do it.


When most of us played highschool, sliding was the only way, but now players can turn and run to a spot. TL for example is not great at sliding his feet, but he turns and meets people at the rim,and we know how that turns out for the shooter. Nesmith at times slides through screens, meaning less switching. Early in the year he was not sliding with people he closed and was running into screens. Effort was always there, but now he is doing a better job.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Does this mean his much-derided footwork is improving?
Watch him tonight.

To my untrained eye, he is sliding his feet a bit better but he doesn't slide much. As RC notes, he's either running after or to a player. If Romeo plays, compare his footwork when guarding guys to AN.

The best thing AN is doing is spending a lot of energy rotating to an open guy and closing hard. It's interesting that he keeps getting to 5 fouls but never fouls out.

And of course, as long as he shoots well and plays hard on defense, Brad will suffer a few disjointed rotations.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Watch him tonight.

To my untrained eye, he is sliding his feet a bit better but he doesn't slide much. As RC notes, he's either running after or to a player. If Romeo plays, compare his footwork when guarding guys to AN.

The best thing AN is doing is spending a lot of energy rotating to an open guy and closing hard. It's interesting that he keeps getting to 5 fouls but never fouls out.

And of course, as long as he shoots well and plays hard on defense, Brad will suffer a few disjointed rotations.
He could really benefit from working smarter, not harder. He's wasting a lot of energy out there but I guess it doesn't matter much when you are 21.
 

slamminsammya

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When most of us played highschool, sliding was the only way, but now players can turn and run to a spot. TL for example is not great at sliding his feet, but he turns and meets people at the rim,and we know how that turns out for the shooter. Nesmith at times slides through screens, meaning less switching. Early in the year he was not sliding with people he closed and was running into screens. Effort was always there, but now he is doing a better job.
Do you think this change in technique is just guys getting sloppier or is it related to the fact that stopping for a pullup is no longer in most offensive players' toolbox or some other change in offense?
 

radsoxfan

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Do you think this change in technique is just guys getting sloppier or is it related to the fact that stopping for a pullup is no longer in most offensive players' toolbox or some other change in offense?
I'm sure there a lot of factors involved. To my eye, players still sometimes slide but with the current rules, you have to be very careful of contract. Marcus does it pretty well with anticipation and quickness, but it's not easy to do. Even good sliding defense will often result in some minor bump/handcheck as you go.

If you can't completely beat your man to the spot by sliding (pretty tough given how good offensive players are now), better to give some ground and athletically run back a few steps to cut someone off.
 

reggiecleveland

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Do you think this change in technique is just guys getting sloppier or is it related to the fact that stopping for a pullup is no longer in most offensive players' toolbox or some other change in offense?
You got it. If you make the guy pullup, most of the time that is your job. Timelord, if you pullup after going by him there is pretty good chance he bothers it, so it makes sense he practices getting to the best angle to block a shot, it is more than just jumping high.

Also the skill level off the bounce is through the roof today, to reuse my parallel, just like hitting the fastball is not as easy as it once was. Today teams want you to be constantly scrambling pass dribble, pass dribble, pass dribble. Insanely hard to guard. A guy that can closeout, and control his check gets the D out of scramble mode. Incredible valuable. Thus Three and D being a thing.
 

luckiestman

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Brickowski was a phenomenal poster

also, I hated Jameer Nelson on the Cs more than I have ever hated another player. It was maybe 3-4 games but it was white hot. Fuck that guy.
 

lovegtm

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Isn't Lowe a Celtics fan?
He was in his younger days, and then has talked about how covering the whole league made him stop caring about a particular team in that way.

My point was mainly that we probably watch random Celtics rookies a lot harder than he would by default.
 

Eddie Jurak

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With Brown out for the rest of the year, the Celtics should start Nesmith. Let Fournier, who is a damned good offensive player, be 6th man/bench scorer.
 

Just a bit outside

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With Brown out for the rest of the year, the Celtics should start Nesmith. Let Fournier, who is a damned good offensive player, be 6th man/bench scorer.
I agree completely. Maybe starting him would not only help AN develop but would also get the other guys to come out with a little more urgency and energy.
 

ZMart100

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I'd keep Fournier in the starting lineup. I don't want him leaving this summer to find a starting job.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I agree completely. Maybe starting him would not only help AN develop but would also get the other guys to come out with a little more urgency and energy.
The problem with starting Nesmith is that he’s now going to be facing a significant matchup disadvantage against starting opposing wings. The kid is finally getting settled and confident against primarily second units and as a complementary piece in the short minutes he is out there against starters. I wouldn’t want to mess with that by throwing him into that fire just yet. He is finally in a good place and showing confidence in his game......let him simmer a little bit longer, he’s not done yet.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The problem with starting Nesmith is that he’s now going to be facing a significant matchup disadvantage against starting opposing wings. The kid is finally getting settled and confident against primarily second units and as a complementary piece in the short minutes he is out there against starters. I wouldn’t want to mess with that by throwing him into that fire just yet. He is finally in a good place and showing confidence in his game......let him simmer a little bit longer, he’s not done yet.
i could see him being better with the starters, since his offense is more complementary.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Last 11: 18.0 mpg, .603/.567/.900, 8.7 points, 4.2 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 0.5 steals, 0.3 blocks. 17/30 from 3.

For the year, he's now shooting .455/.394/.769 with a .581 eFG% and a TS% of .601.

SSS and all but
0-3ft: .682
3-10: .440
10-16: .667
16-3p: .500
from 3: .394.
 

Jimbodandy

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All in all, it looks like parking him on the bench until he earned game reps was a good idea. And he looks like a keeper.

Hopefully an offseason with a proper skills instructor and hard work will lead to a year 2 leap. Kid has shown things in the second half of the season.

I'd like to see him tighten his handle, work on his left hand overall, but mostly improve his ability to stay in front of guys.
 

Deathofthebambino

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All in all, it looks like parking him on the bench until he earned game reps was a good idea.
Or he could have just James Harden'd him like Scott Brooks did in OKC.

If Scott Brooks had started Harden from day 1 like he did with Westbrook and Durant, they might have won the NBA championship in his third (and final year) and maybe they would have realized that Harden was the better player than Ibaka and gave him the extension instead, and kept Harden/Westbrook/Durant together.

Obviously, I'm not comparing Harden to Nesmith by any means, but it's just unknowable to say "Brad benched him, he came back playing good, therefore, benching was the right decision." It could also be "Brad benched him, he came back playing good, Brad fucked up by not playing him more while the team shit all over itself for the season."

Honestly, I haven't heard many arguments that "less minutes equals good development" before the Nesmith discussions around here. If the Angels had kept Mike Trout riding the pine for a couple years, and then he turned into Mike fucking Trout, would we all be lauding the Angels management on taking it slow with him? Or would we be wondering what the fuck the Angels were watching and seeing by having him hang around on the bench? Brad didn't take it slow with Tatum or Brown or Smart like he is with Nesmith, and those guys all had a bunch of rough nights early on, so why weren't we blasting Brad at that time for giving the rooks too much run when they needed time to develop on the bench, even if they were better than the guys in front of them (like Nesmith is with Semi or Grant).
 

lexrageorge

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Nesmith looked absolutely lost at the start of the season, so I don't think there's a credible argument to be made that Brad "fucked up" by having him ride the pine to start the year. He was drafted with the future in mind, not the 2020-21 season in mind. The pressure was on Brad at the beginning of the season to win games, not give development time to rookies who were not ready.

There were also really good reasons why Nesmith wasn't ready at the start of the year, reasons that are well documented in this thread. I'm sure those reasons also had some influence on Brad's decision to keep him on the pine.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Or he could have just James Harden'd him like Scott Brooks did in OKC.

If Scott Brooks had started Harden from day 1 like he did with Westbrook and Durant, they might have won the NBA championship in his third (and final year) and maybe they would have realized that Harden was the better player than Ibaka and gave him the extension instead, and kept Harden/Westbrook/Durant together.

Obviously, I'm not comparing Harden to Nesmith by any means, but it's just unknowable to say "Brad benched him, he came back playing good, therefore, benching was the right decision." It could also be "Brad benched him, he came back playing good, Brad fucked up by not playing him more while the team shit all over itself for the season."

Honestly, I haven't heard many arguments that "less minutes equals good development" before the Nesmith discussions around here. If the Angels had kept Mike Trout riding the pine for a couple years, and then he turned into Mike fucking Trout, would we all be lauding the Angels management on taking it slow with him? Or would we be wondering what the fuck the Angels were watching and seeing by having him hang around on the bench? Brad didn't take it slow with Tatum or Brown or Smart like he is with Nesmith, and those guys all had a bunch of rough nights early on, so why weren't we blasting Brad at that time for giving the rooks too much run when they needed time to develop on the bench, even if they were better than the guys in front of them (like Nesmith is with Semi or Grant).
At the beginning of the year, there was the injury and rust excuse. He hadn't played in almost a year.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Nesmith looked absolutely lost at the start of the season, so I don't think there's a credible argument to be made that Brad "fucked up" by having him ride the pine to start the year. He was drafted with the future in mind, not the 2020-21 season in mind. The pressure was on Brad at the beginning of the season to win games, not give development time to rookies who were not ready.

There were also really good reasons why Nesmith wasn't ready at the start of the year, reasons that are well documented in this thread. I'm sure those reasons also had some influence on Brad's decision to keep him on the pine.
I'm not really talking about starting him or even giving him big minutes back in December. When the team was healthy, they really didn't have a ton of minutes for him anyway. But in mid February, he went 8 straight games, averaged 20.5mpg, with 5.3ppg, 3.6rpg, and shooting .500 and .421 from deep, while leading the team in =/- over that stretch with a combined +5.3 (in an 8 game stretch where the team went 3-5), I didn't and still don't understand why Brad followed that up with 6 DNP-CD's in the next 7 games. Following all of those DNP's, the team was sitting at 20-20 on the season. Whatever rhythm Nesmith was getting into was shot to shit, and he slowly worked his way back getting sparing minutes until Brad started playing him again.

But at least we got to watch Grant play 19+ minutes night after night after night...I think Grant has pictures of Brad somewhere.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Nesmith looked absolutely lost at the start of the season, so I don't think there's a credible argument to be made that Brad "fucked up" by having him ride the pine to start the year. He was drafted with the future in mind, not the 2020-21 season in mind. The pressure was on Brad at the beginning of the season to win games, not give development time to rookies who were not ready.

There were also really good reasons why Nesmith wasn't ready at the start of the year, reasons that are well documented in this thread. I'm sure those reasons also had some influence on Brad's decision to keep him on the pine.
He was lost at the beginning of the year. He wasn't lost in February and Brad benched him again anyway.
 

Cellar-Door

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Honestly, I haven't heard many arguments that "less minutes equals good development" before the Nesmith discussions around here. If the Angels had kept Mike Trout riding the pine for a couple years, and then he turned into Mike fucking Trout, would we all be lauding the Angels management on taking it slow with him? Or would we be wondering what the fuck the Angels were watching and seeing by having him hang around on the bench? Brad didn't take it slow with Tatum or Brown or Smart like he is with Nesmith, and those guys all had a bunch of rough nights early on, so why weren't we blasting Brad at that time for giving the rooks too much run when they needed time to develop on the bench, even if they were better than the guys in front of them (like Nesmith is with Semi or Grant).
The NBA isn't really comparable to baseball which is basically an individual sport masquerading as a team one.
In the NBA there are a lot of approaches to developing young talent, but on good teams limited minutes until you can show you can play within the scheme is not unusual, and there is some evidence that guys who play a lot early even when they are failing to get the schemes turn out to be players who never get schemes and build bad habits.

Of course there is no control, every player has a million unique attributes as does every situation. Some guys can play right away, some need to sit. Some guys learn through playing others learn best through watching and earning time. I looks at a lot of guys who developed a lot from when they were drafted who are Nesmith types, that we might see as models , and i see ones that sat a lot as rookies (Butler, Middleton etc.)

As to Brown and Tatum... they were different players (generally I thought they were far more pro-ready), they had full pre-seasons, summer league time and camp to learn the schemes, and the roster was significantly different in construction and goals.
 

Jimbodandy

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The NBA isn't really comparable to baseball which is basically an individual sport masquerading as a team one.
In the NBA there are a lot of approaches to developing young talent, but on good teams limited minutes until you can show you can play within the scheme is not unusual, and there is some evidence that guys who play a lot early even when they are failing to get the schemes turn out to be players who never get schemes and build bad habits.

Of course there is no control, every player has a million unique attributes as does every situation. Some guys can play right away, some need to sit. Some guys learn through playing others learn best through watching and earning time. I looks at a lot of guys who developed a lot from when they were drafted who are Nesmith types, that we might see as models , and i see ones that sat a lot as rookies (Butler, Middleton etc.)

As to Brown and Tatum... they were different players (generally I thought they were far more pro-ready), they had full pre-seasons, summer league time and camp to learn the schemes, and the roster was significantly different in construction and goals.
All good points. Rookies Brown and Tatum were much farther along than Nesmith at the beginning of this season, especially Tatum. Tatum doesn't belong in this conversation. He was NBA ready at both ends at game 1. Brown wasn't as far along, and low and behold, he played 17mpg to Tatum's 31mpg rookie minutes. Nesmith was not as far along as Brown, like not even close. He may now be, game speed wise, where Brown was early in his rookie season and is correspondingly getting similar minutes lately. Not every thread has to be a "Brad sucks" thread.
 

lovegtm

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All good points. Rookies Brown and Tatum were much farther along than Nesmith at the beginning of this season, especially Tatum. Tatum doesn't belong in this conversation. He was NBA ready at both ends at game 1. Brown wasn't as far along, and low and behold, he played 17mpg to Tatum's 31mpg rookie minutes. Nesmith was not as far along as Brown, like not even close. He may now be, game speed wise, where Brown was early in his rookie season and is correspondingly getting similar minutes lately. Not every thread has to be a "Brad sucks" thread.
I think how good Jaylen subsequently became is making people forget how many issues he had as a rookie. He was used mostly in specific spots in the playoffs--"go shut down Bogdanovic" was the only big minutes he got.

Nesmith right now is probably better than Jaylen was at the same point in his rookie year (although JB was a year younger).
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think how good Jaylen subsequently became is making people forget how many issues he had as a rookie. He was used mostly in specific spots in the playoffs--"go shut down Bogdanovic" was the only big minutes he got.

Nesmith right now is probably better than Jaylen was at the same point in his rookie year (although JB was a year younger).
Really?

Maybe age is affecting my recall but I remember Jaylen being brought along in a limited role, impressing with his shot making, athleticism and defense especially as the season came along. I recall us discussion re-drafts on here and most if not all having Jaylen 2nd or 3rd. I was as high as anyone on him coming out of Cal and was impressed as to where he was as a 20-yr old rookie. What part am I missing or forgetting?