Covid and MLB

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
I’m probably not the first to suggest it, but if they investigate and find out that the Cards’ positives directly resulted from breaking protocol, why not just make them forfeit the postponed games?
On the surface I get what you're saying, but handing those wins to other teams will likely have an affect on the playoffs. IMO it wouldn't be right for any team to to be adversely affected because one team another team chose not to follow the protocols.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Missing an “R”
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
On the surface I get what you're saying, but handing those wins to other teams will likely have an affect on the playoffs. IMO it wouldn't be right for any team to to be adversely affected because one team another team chose not to follow the protocols.
So you have a loss for the Cards, no win for the opponent. Hopefully there isn’t one team overly affected by the cancellations, and you might have to teach your kids about the year baseball had more losses than wins, but heck, hockey has more wins than losses and no one seems to mind that . . .
 

OurF'ingCity

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
4,862
New York City
So you have a loss for the Cards, no win for the opponent. Hopefully there isn’t one team overly affected by the cancellations, and you might have to teach your kids about the year baseball had more losses than wins, but heck, hockey has more wins than losses and no one seems to mind that . . .
If they really wanted to follow the hockey model they could institute a points system where a "real" win gets you 2 points, a win due to Covid forfeit gives you 1 point, and a loss ("real" or Covid-related) gives you 0 points. In effect, that would give teams that weren't able to play because of the other team's Covid breakout credit for the (very roughly) 50% chance that they would have won the game they didn't end up playing.

(I'm mostly kidding, but baseball is going to have to get creative here one way or the other as these postponements pile up.)
 

Pedroia's Itchy Nose

Member
SoSH Member
I'm thinking that the best way to have done this (in hindsight) would be to have two separate rosters on each club with some temporary solution to get around any 40 man roster problems.

Any player testing positive and that entire roster has to quarantine until the rest of the team can demonstrate sufficient negative tests. Meanwhile the B roster plays the games. If BOTH the A and B roster get positive tests at the same time, then any games to be played are forfeit.

While this system isn't entirely fair, it would certainly encourage players to be serious about protocols and it wouldn't result in the current logistical nightmare.

A full bubble would be preferable of course, but absent that...
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
14,541
Pittsburgh, PA
I’m probably not the first to suggest it, but if they investigate and find out that the Cards’ positives directly resulted from breaking protocol, why not just make them forfeit the postponed games?
Creates an incentive to avoid tests or for the team to avoid complying with the testing and discipline.

Maybe a three-strikes kind of thing would make sense but even that provides a disincentive. Much better for it to be the team setting their protocols and holding themselves accountable than the league office trying to do so.
 

johnmd20

figuratively like ebola
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
45,160
New York City
You know, I know these guys are young and rich and probably think the rules don't apply to them.

But going out during t season, in a pandemic, after the Marlins and Cardinals blew up is so ridiculous, I cannot even fathom it. How pampered are you that you can't stop yourself from leaving the house to go out at night? You can't just gut it out for a couple of months?

It's so lame. And so unimpressive. You're asked to do one thing, sit in your room and stream movies or play video games. The horror. I don't have an iota of sympathy. I'm been in my apartment since March 13th. I have not done anything, except for like 5 trips to Walgreens. You know why? BECAUSE WE'RE IN A FUCKING PANDEMIC.
 

donutogre

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,178
Philadelphia
You know, I know these guys are young and rich and probably think the rules don't apply to them.

But going out during t season, in a pandemic, after the Marlins and Cardinals blew up is so ridiculous, I cannot even fathom it. How pampered are you that you can't stop yourself from leaving the house to go out at night? You can't just gut it out for a couple of months?

It's so lame. And so unimpressive. You're asked to do one thing, sit in your room and stream movies or play video games. The horror. I don't have an iota of sympathy. I'm been in my apartment since March 13th. I have not done anything, except for like 5 trips to Walgreens. You know why? BECAUSE WE'RE IN A FUCKING PANDEMIC.
Lol... I feel this frustration. All we're all (supposed to be) doing is sitting in our rooms streaming movies or playing video games. This feeling is why I'd be totally fine with teams having outbreaks from this sort of behavior forfeiting games / taking a loss. Other teams have somehow managed to keep their shit together so far, so if you can't do it, I do not feel terribly bad for you.
 

Ale Xander

Lacks black ink
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
32,159
You know, I know these guys are young and rich and probably think the rules don't apply to them.

But going out during t season, in a pandemic, after the Marlins and Cardinals blew up is so ridiculous, I cannot even fathom it. How pampered are you that you can't stop yourself from leaving the house to go out at night? You can't just gut it out for a couple of months?

It's so lame. And so unimpressive. You're asked to do one thing, sit in your room and stream movies or play video games. The horror. I don't have an iota of sympathy. I'm been in my apartment since March 13th. I have not done anything, except for like 5 trips to Walgreens. You know why? BECAUSE WE'RE IN A FUCKING PANDEMIC.
johnmd rants are awesome. Can't get enough of them.

PS good news for the future:

 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
You know, I know these guys are young and rich and probably think the rules don't apply to them.

But going out during t season, in a pandemic, after the Marlins and Cardinals blew up is so ridiculous, I cannot even fathom it. How pampered are you that you can't stop yourself from leaving the house to go out at night? You can't just gut it out for a couple of months?

It's so lame. And so unimpressive. You're asked to do one thing, sit in your room and stream movies or play video games. The horror. I don't have an iota of sympathy. I'm been in my apartment since March 13th. I have not done anything, except for like 5 trips to Walgreens. You know why? BECAUSE WE'RE IN A FUCKING PANDEMIC.
I've already seen a couple of guys on the MLB Network refer to this as a mistake made by Plesac and Clevinger and it really pisses me off. It was a deliberate act by the Marlins players, it was a deliberate act by the Cardinals players and it was a deliberate act by the Indian players. Each act harder to forgive than the previous one as the Cardinals had the Marlins to learn from and the Indians had both Miami AND St. Louis as examples of how not to act. And the kicker with Plesac and Clevinger is that they have a rotation mate who last year was diagnosed last season with a chronic form of leukemia. I would imagine that Carlos Carrasco would fall into that high risk category that we hear so much about.

Or... what Francisco Lindor said.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
47,459
I've already seen a couple of guys on the MLB Network refer to this as a mistake made by Plesac and Clevinger and it really pisses me off. It was a deliberate act by the Marlins players, it was a deliberate act by the Cardinals players and it was a deliberate act by the Indian players. Each act harder to forgive than the previous one as the Cardinals had the Marlins to learn from and the Indians had both Miami AND St. Louis as examples of how not to act. And the kicker with Plesac and Clevinger is that they have a rotation mate who last year was diagnosed last season with a chronic form of leukemia. I would imagine that Carlos Carrasco would fall into that high risk category that we hear so much about.

Or... what Francisco Lindor said.
You don’t know that it wasn’t a mistake. Maybe they got dressed up to go to the ice room in the hotel, took a wrong turn, and ended up at a bar all night.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
17,102
I get why forfeits are unwieldy., But there has to be some punishment, like a player suspension (probably a cba thing there), or team draft picks or fines.

I've liked lindor a ton since I saw him mic'd up. Like him more now.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
I get why forfeits are unwieldy., But there has to be some punishment, like a player suspension (probably a cba thing there), or team draft picks or fines.

I've liked lindor a ton since I saw him mic'd up. Like him more now.
There has to be some sort of accountability here, but I'm not on board with losing draft picks. MLB decided to move forward and try to present some sort of a baseball season. Unless it was specified and agreed to that the loss of draft picks would be considered as disciplinary action I think it's too harsh. I think the real problem here is there seems to be no league wide discipline policy for violating the Covid 19 protocols that are in place. I haven't heard of any measures being taken against any Marlin or Cardinal players and it seems as though Plesac and Clevinger's fate will be decided by their teammates.
 

Ford Frick's Asterisk

Member
SoSH Member
May 5, 2017
786
This was from a live post-game interview, so the best I can do is paraphrase, but Adam Plutko didn't pull any punches when asked about Plesac and Clevinger: "They lied to us. They sat beside us and lied to us... They're grown-ass men, so you can go ask them what they're going to do to earn back our trust."
 

tmracht

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 19, 2009
1,440
That tweet is a picture, can't copy and paste the words.
Transposed cause the message is so good. Think I got it word for word but if not my apologies.

We have to sit and look ourselves in the mirror. And it's not about the person we see in the mirror. It's who's behind you. The other people. It's not about that one person. It's about everybody around you: the family members, the coaching staff, (Carlos) Carrasco, all the players on teams that are high-risk. We're in a time right now with COVID, with racism, with everything - this is a time to be selfless. This is when we have to sit back and understand this is not about one person specifically. It's about everybody. It's about your neighbor and your neighbor's neighbors. It's not just you specifically.
 

The Gray Eagle

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
14,012
The manager, Francona, is also at high risk and was just out sick.

If the owners and the union were semi-competent and gave a rat's ass about player health and the chances of the season finishing, they would work out a way to discipline players who violate the protocols, so that players who do that lose their salary. That would seem like it would have a much better chance of stopping some of this. Obviously the honor system has failed.

But we have battling buffoons Manfred and Clark in charge, so nothing good will happen.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
14,541
Pittsburgh, PA
You know, I know these guys are young and rich and probably think the rules don't apply to them.

But going out during t season, in a pandemic, after the Marlins and Cardinals blew up is so ridiculous, I cannot even fathom it. How pampered are you that you can't stop yourself from leaving the house to go out at night? You can't just gut it out for a couple of months?

It's so lame. And so unimpressive. You're asked to do one thing, sit in your room and stream movies or play video games. The horror. I don't have an iota of sympathy. I'm been in my apartment since March 13th. I have not done anything, except for like 5 trips to Walgreens. You know why? BECAUSE WE'RE IN A FUCKING PANDEMIC.
I have even more sympathy for Lou Williams, who is being made to stay away from his family too. These MLB players are living at home, with their families, and with all the comfort of familiarity around them.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
20,404
Maybe if the union and MLB had spent more time from March to mid-July talking about the actual impacts of CV rather than just posturing about money, they'd have better results from re-starting?

It always boggled my mind that they talked about $ first and then re-starting instead of trying to figure out the safest way to re-start and then figure out how to play given those parameters.

You know, I know these guys are young and rich and probably think the rules don't apply to them.

But going out during t season, in a pandemic, after the Marlins and Cardinals blew up is so ridiculous, I cannot even fathom it. How pampered are you that you can't stop yourself from leaving the house to go out at night? You can't just gut it out for a couple of months?

It's so lame. And so unimpressive. You're asked to do one thing, sit in your room and stream movies or play video games. The horror. I don't have an iota of sympathy. I'm been in my apartment since March 13th. I have not done anything, except for like 5 trips to Walgreens. You know why? BECAUSE WE'RE IN A FUCKING PANDEMIC.
You should break out the MD2020
 

KiltedFool

has a terminal case of creeping sharia
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
2,356
I saw the Lindor quote up above on The Athletic FWIW, so I can bring a snippet of text direct.

On his feelings about the Clevinger/Plesac situation: I have mixed feelings because we’re all grown men. At the end of the day, we have to sit and look ourselves in the mirror. And it’s not about the person you see in the mirror — it’s about who’s behind you, the other people. It’s not about that one person in general. It’s about everybody around him and the family members that are behind us: the coaching staff, (Carlos) Carrasco, all the players on all the teams that are at high risk, family members. We’re in a time right now with COVID-19, with racism, everything. This is a time to be selfless. This is when we have to sit back and understand this is not about one person specifically. It’s about everybody. You have to go out there and understand that it’s about your neighbor and your neighbor’s neighbors. It’s not just you specifically.


Apparently Francona has had one or more minor procedures in the last week or so to deal with something associated with spasms and GI tract. So yeah, high risk. Antonetti elsewhere in the article declines to go into how they found out about Clevenger and specifics of what was said and what their internal response will be. Very much in house, and I think appropriate. It's a good article, not surprising, the Athletic has been pretty solid.

Kinda pissed they'd pull shit like that, the Indians have built a culture among the pitchers about accountability and doing their work and being prepared. Beiber and Clevenger and Plesac and Plutko are in part the children of Kluber's professionalism and preparedness and Bauer's analytical bent, and both of those guys were huge work ethic guys. Pulling a classic flaky pitcher heading to the bar is the opposite of the example set by the Klubot and no filter Bauer.
 
I have even more sympathy for Lou Williams, who is being made to stay away from his family too. These MLB players are living at home, with their families, and with all the comfort of familiarity around them.
Not to excuse the idiots, but I reckon the abnormality of living permanently on the road in a bubble - with a bunch of friends and teammates in the same situation that you're in - has to make it much more apparent that there are clear rules you need to follow. Being at home leaves you with familiar pre-lockdown temptations that might be harder to ignore.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
12,676
Maine
Not to excuse the idiots, but I reckon the abnormality of living permanently on the road in a bubble - with a bunch of friends and teammates in the same situation that you're in - has to make it much more apparent that there are clear rules you need to follow. Being at home leaves you with familiar pre-lockdown temptations that might be harder to ignore.
That might be true but so far, I believe every documented case of baseball players flouting virus guidelines has occurred while they were on the road. So they went through whatever protocols are in place for travel (masked flights and bus rides, etc), which surely don't resemble the familiar pre-lockdown life, and then decided to go out and be stupid. Clevinger and Plesac's case is even worse considering it came after the Marlins and Cardinals outbreaks and all the backlash (and increased restrictions) that brought about. They weren't lulled into a false sense of security by everything feeling "normal" at home.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
I have even more sympathy for Lou Williams, who is being made to stay away from his family too. These MLB players are living at home, with their families, and with all the comfort of familiarity around them.
I understand what you're saying and there is a distinct difference in how the two leagues have approached this, but just like Plesac and Clevinger, Williams knew the rules and opted in.It's hard for me to have sympathy for a guy who was granted an excused absence to mourn a friend and IMO pushed the boundaries of the courtesy that was extended to him.
 
Last edited:

staz

Intangible
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2004
15,193
The cradle of the game.
After this weekend, more than 1/3 of the regular season's available playing dates will have passed. If the Cards' shutdown extends into Monday, I don't see any way opponents can be asked to accommodate so that they can play enough games to legitimately compete for a playoff berth. There can't be a 22-18 team qualifying when a 32-28 team does not.
 

edoug

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
3,507
After this weekend, more than 1/3 of the regular season's available playing dates will have passed. If the Cards' shutdown extends into Monday, I don't see any way opponents can be asked to accommodate so that they can play enough games to legitimately compete for a playoff berth. There can't be a 22-18 team qualifying when a 32-28 team does not.
They have to play 55 games in 44 days. Of course that's depending on a lot of things. Like the season is completed, etc. No long trips help.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
12,676
Maine
They have to play 55 games in 44 days. Of course that's depending on a lot of things. Like the season is completed, etc. No long trips help.
MLB has already announced some scheduling for the Cardinals. They'll be making up a 3 game series home series with the Cubs by doubling up three already scheduled games at Wrigley (and playing one of each as the home team). They're making up a home series with the Pirates by playing a double header at Busch on what was a common off-day, then playing a "home" game as a double header at PNC Park. And what was a 2-day series with the Twins in September is now a one-day double header in order to create an off-day for the Cards.

Assuming that they do start playing again tomorrow (double header at the White Sox), they'll be playing 8 games in 5 days. Talk about sprinting out of the re-start gates.

View: https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1294313421488480257
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
51,924
The 7 inning doubleheaders mean the 8 games in 5 days is 60 innings instead of 72 so not as bad as it seems.
 

The Gray Eagle

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
14,012
If they can't play tomorrow, MLB needs to work out a way to let them carve out a team from whatever is left from their 60-man pool plus however many free agents they can round up.

They'd have to temporarily change some rules about rosters, etc. but that seems less damaging than cancelling more games. And this may not be the only team in this situation, still plenty of time for other teams to be out of action for a long time.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
51,924
They are scheduled for 11 doubleheaders now, so that cuts 44 innings off their season, basically 55 games instead of 60 (if they somehow play them all).
 

Ale Xander

Lacks black ink
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
32,159
If one team has 11 doubleheaders, and another has zero, I don't see how that's fair. Especially when season is 30 doubleheaders long and doubleheader games are shorter. A 7 inning win isn't as good as a 9 inning win.