Covid-19 & the 2019-20 season (or, Can a rabona inspire us?)

SocrManiac

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With respect to La Liga, I think we’re losing an awful lot elsewhere, too. The Spanish sides won’t be setting benchmarks for points or anointing long-lost sides as champions, though kicking Atletico out of the CL might be seen as a win for all of Europe.

Italy has its most interesting race in the last decade. Juventus is leading by a point, but Lazio might be more deserving of the title if it’s awarded today. For those that have been living under a rock, I have baby pictures in black and white stripes and will follow them to my death (even if I find the current iteration of the side with Ronaldo/Sarri’s completely unpalatable).

Liverpool seemed ready to set a number of records that would be difficult to touch, lending some drama to their campaign and weight to their title.
 

Domer

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Me, definitely. I'm not not watching sports.

Who are we supporting? I think Club America has the best logo, and as someone who lives in the Americas, I'm obviously captured in their fan base. Sort of like the California Angels on steroids.



But I'm open to anyone other than Guadalajara for Chivas USA-related reasons.
Liga MX is now suspended.

I had taken a liking to Pumas UNAM because according to lore they adopted my school’s colors as their own. It was suggested that I root for Cruz Azul because as Revolution fan, I would take well to a club with a history of losing big matches, but I declined.
 

candylandriots

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Germany extended its ban from April 2 to April 19 (not bothering posting the German link, I think you guys will take my word for it, right?)
 

Dummy Hoy

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I don’t give a shit because Wednesday isn’t going anywhere good, but I don’t see how you decide Leeds and West Brom go up, given the unbalanced schedules. If I’m Fulham (who I think still has to play both), I’m suing the fuck out of the efl in that scenario.
League One and League Two are even messier...
 

thehitcat

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Yeah I've been thinking about this as well and am in the same (but lesser) boat with Reading...that said why not have the top 8 play single elimination at the higher seeds home ground with extra time and penalties and then two games at Wembley for the right to go up. The TV revenue alone would make most of those clubs whole for missing their remaining home schedule.
 

OilCanShotTupac

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Void the whole PLseason. Never happened. Start over with the same 20 and the same fixtures in August.

#toobadsosadLFC
#upthetoffees
 

Vinho Tinto

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Jorge Jesus has confirmed he had a positive test result. He is under quarantine for at least a week. He posted a video on Twitter where expressed that he feels normal and that he expects to be fine.
 

67YAZ

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UEFA will ask members for €275m if they decide to delay the Euros by 12 months.
This is what UEFA estimates it will cost to push the European Championships back by 12 months to June 2021 and will be relayed to European football’s stakeholders in emergency meetings on Tuesday, during which it will be confirmed the tournament will be delayed by a year.
The article further states that FAs are prioritizing trying to complete the club season by extending into the summer over the Euros in an effort to avoid a flood of lawsuits.
 

Zososoxfan

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UEFA will ask members for €275m if they decide to delay the Euros by 12 months.


The article further states that FAs are prioritizing trying to complete the club season by extending into the summer over the Euros in an effort to avoid a flood of lawsuits.
IAAL and I have no idea how force majeure clauses work in Europe, but it seems like everyone should get a mulligan on contracts. In other words, UEFA shouldn't suffer damages for postponement which would make this question irrelevant. But who knows.
 

BrazilianSoxFan

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Jorge Jesus has confirmed he had a positive test result. He is under quarantine for at least a week. He posted a video on Twitter where expressed that he feels normal and that he expects to be fine.
A confirmation test turned out inconclusive, and he has being re-tested and is waiting for the new results.
 

candylandriots

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Couple of updates from the German press:

* Premier League plans to end the season within six weeks of June 1, without fans. New season to start on August 8. (my translation might be slightly off on this though. It's not completely clear through google translate, either.)
* Renowned virologist predicts no matches with fans (at least in Germany) until this time next year.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Couple of updates from the German press:

* Premier League plans to end the season within six weeks of June 1, without fans. New season to start on August 8. (my translation might be slightly off on this though. It's not completely clear through google translate, either.)
* Renowned virologist predicts no matches with fans (at least in Germany) until this time next year.
reports from the English press indicate there was unanimous (ha!) agreement to finish the season - behind closed doors if necessary. Ideally they want things finished by the end of June.

The main drivers appear to be the threat of lawsuits if they don’t finish .. from Championship sides who don’t get promoted , champions league disputes. And above all else the 100s of millions of pounds they’d have to pay back to the TV providers for breach of contract.
 

candylandriots

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reports from the English press indicate there was unanimous (ha!) agreement to finish the season - behind closed doors if necessary. Ideally they want things finished by the end of June.

The main drivers appear to be the threat of lawsuits if they don’t finish .. from Championship sides who don’t get promoted , champions league disputes. And above all else the 100s of millions of pounds they’d have to pay back to the TV providers for breach of contract.
Yes, my summary was kind of awkwardly worded because of the translation. What I meant was that the PL wanted to restart by June 1 and finish within 6 weeks of that, in order to restart the new season in August. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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More news coming out of the UK (The Liverpool Echo in this case) that the PL is looking at a startup date of July 1st .. all behind closed doors .. three games a week to finish the season by August.

This certainly seems more realistic that the May 1st date

 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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More news coming out of the UK (The Liverpool Echo in this case) that the PL is looking at a startup date of July 1st .. all behind closed doors .. three games a week to finish the season by August.

This certainly seems more realistic that the May 1st date

Even putting aside the question of what the virus will be doing at that point, this plan involves players going from a long break immediately into a festive period like hyper-congested fixture list for an entire month, right before the start of another long grueling season. It’s insane.

Just end the season.
 

InstaFace

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3 games a week? Why would that be necessary when there's only 9 more matches to play in the league? Surely 2 games a week, no European or FA Cup competition, and a slightly delayed start to the next campaign would make more sense for all involved.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Another big “crisis” meeting for the Premier League today .. main issues being how to finish the current season , presumably in June and July. There are no good options due to public health concerns, logistics and - from the PL clubs point of view - money.

Why do they want to finish the season? The main motivation is money .. the clubs would have to pay back to the broadcasters 100s of millions of pounds .. not to mention lawsuits from just about all the parties involved.

Any, and or all options are moot if we are still in a health emergency come summer time .. what’s more, this effects all the clubs in the football pyramid - not just the PL.

So putting on my prognosticators cap ..

Option 1 : Finish the season behind closed doors in June and early July.

Pros: avoid, paying back TV money, Avoid legal issues from relegated clubs , maintains the league pyramid structure
Cons: empty stadiums, player health from a packed schedule , logistical issues if neutral sites have to be used (the World Cup model)

So . if they can’t finish then what to do about the current season? Do they null and void or simply declare it’s done and dusted (as seems to be happening in Belgium) . These all have the TV money problem.

Option 2: Null and Void the season
Pros: nobody gets relegated.
Cons: nobody gets promoted , teams in the Europe spots that weren’t previously there are robbed - causing a multitude of lawsuits up and down the pyramid not to mention seriously pissed off fans.

Option 3: Declare the season finished .. current standings are the final standings.
Pros: pyramid structure is maintained. Fans are happy as the integrity of the competition is confirmed.Lawsuits would be minimized
Cons: some clubs are relegated despite schedule imbalances.

Option 4: a hybrid of option 3. I think this is what actually happens if they can’t finish.
- Declare the current standings as final. CL and EU positions are honoured.
- No clubs are relegated but all promotions are honoured
- This results in a 23 team PL .. annoying but can be managed. 2020/2021 season will have 5 relegated clubs , but only 3 promotions - restoring the structure.

Pros: no lawsuits . League’s competitive integrity is maintained. Fans are happy.
Cons: logistical problems due to the odd numbers of teams.


Note.: On the TV money problem .. this is going to be a real hit but compromises from everyone involved will minimize it I think.

- One assumes the large majority of the TV money is from subscription based services - that is, companies that have already received much of this money from current paid subscriptions ( in my case DAZN ) which they are highly unlikely to pay back - so they have lots of room to compromise from a financial health point of view.
- the Players are still being paid .. there is lots of room here for sharing the pain ( at least at the PL level)
- the clubs still have other sources of revenue

Getting all parties to agree is going to be tricky of course. But it’s not in anyone’s interest to see marginal teams being destroyed.

I really miss footy.
 

SocrManiac

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I wonder if the modified 23 team season is actually more appealing: more games, more TV money, restoration of lost funds this year... They can play the extra games over Christmas! Or in January, when AFCON is going on! Everybody wins!
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think its probably a bad idea from a public health standpoint but my expectation is that they will exhaust every opportunity to play the rest of the season behind closed doors and only give up on that if things still look dire in June. Not only does money usually win out, but the clubs are probably very very concerned about the longer term financial picture, especially if they have to start next season without fans in stadiums. Gate revenue is far less important than it used to be but take away gate revenue and every club is still deep in the red. The prognosis for commercial revenue going forward can't look that great either.
 

Vinho Tinto

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I have no doubt the clubs around the world will make every effort to play matches in any way possible; but I also believe it will prove impossible this year.
 

dirtynine

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All French leagues are done for the season, by governmental decree. Assuming this means clubs can't participate in continental competitions (if they were to resume) as well.

This reminds me of the NBA suspending the season - first one out of the gate and sets the tone for other organizations in a similar spot. It puts a lot of pressure the national FAs around Europe. I think we'll see most of them following suit - except possibly for England; I expect some stubborn determination there.
 

Zososoxfan

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All French leagues are done for the season, by governmental decree. Assuming this means clubs can't participate in continental competitions (if they were to resume) as well.

This reminds me of the NBA suspending the season - first one out of the gate and sets the tone for other organizations in a similar spot. It puts a lot of pressure the national FAs around Europe. I think we'll see most of them following suit - except possibly for England; I expect some stubborn determination there.
IIRC, didn't the Eredivisie already cancel?
 

SoxFanInCali

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The tipping point will be if one of the Big 4 (England, Spain, Germany, Italy) shut down. Those are the ones where TV revenue is a much bigger proportion of their income than gate receipts, so they want to find a way to push through even with no fans. Especially the first two.
 

Zososoxfan

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It's been alluded to, but I'm really interested to see how the domestic FAs and UEFA cooperate. i.e. Ligue 1 and the Eredivisie have cancelled but the Bundesliga resumes in a week or 2. OK, limiting this to domestic competitions is straightforward--but what about UEL and UCL? Will be fascinating to watch.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Apparently the French Government is lobbying other European countries to cancel their seasons too .. maybe the decision to kill League One is proving domestically unpopular.

Seems to be several different methods for ending seasons .. in Holland it’s null and void. In Belgium it’s current standings. The French are proposing three different scenarios .. points per game, last complete match day and mid season standings - null and void being off the table (thank god)

The Scottish FA is also considering ending its season. The Swiss today confirmed they want to complete.

Also news of player grumbling in England about not wanting to play .. guessing they still want to be paid.

The proposed Premier League solution is a five week “festival of football” .. a few neutral sites, players in perpetual lock down at their training bases - escorted to the designated neutral site with advanced security for the game day , daily testing. Gee , why would the players grumble about that? It does kind of resemble Roman gladiators - who were also, of course, slaves.
 

SocrManiac

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Something irrelevant just struck me, but it’s going to be a “thing” with the plans we see for restart.

One of my favorite things about closed-door matches is hearing the player chatter. It’s fascinating to hear how they effectively communicate bursts of information. They’re also foul-mouthed in the extreme. How major broadcasts would handle that might be a nontrivial challenge. You have to keep some form of stadium audio for the thumb of the ball and the referee’s whistle, but how are they going to protect all of our innocent ears from the naughty players?
 

OilCanShotTupac

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Some player will get sick from some other player. That's a near-certainty.

If it's Tom Cleverley or Matt Lawton, it's a terrible story. If it's Harry Kane or Salah or KDB ... that's a disaster.
 

candylandriots

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The hoped for resumption of the Bundesliga on May 9 was squashed by the government yesterday. Wonder if that is related to the Ligue 1 news.

 

dirtynine

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At this point I question whether players would even have the fitness to start up in 1-2 weeks. I feel like they’d need a month of lead time and some friendlies or scrimmages at least.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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To me, the return of the Premier League in early June looks complete pie in the sky at this point. Sure, the govt. is on-board and the club owners are desperate to get back. But the players ? Being locked up in team hotels for six weeks .. - away from their families - only being let out to train and play games in front of CGI fans .. Twice a week testing is not enough but that’s what they’re proposing. And they’re going to be using the local NHS testing centre , using up health resources better deployed elsewhere. What happens when players start testing positive? Does the whole league shut down again? I’ll be pretty surprised if the players association signs off on this. Mind you, the clubs will probably threaten players with a 30% pay cut if they have to cancel - further poisoning the pot.

I think the whole misguided scheme is solely being proposed to give leverage to the owners when they inevitably cancel the season and have to negotiate with the TV providers to lessen the payments clawback. “We did everything we could!”

They’re probably hoping the govt. will lean on the English providers Sky and BT Sports (?) to cut a deal. Good luck with foreign providers.
 

Vinho Tinto

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But the players ? Being locked up in team hotels for six weeks .. - away from their families - only being let out to train and play games in front of CGI fans .. Twice a week testing is not enough but that’s what they’re proposing.
The rubber meets the road moment will be when the forfeited dollar and cents are laid out for not completing the season.There will be players who will not show up regardless; but how many is a big question. For the leagues that do go forward, how clubs/FAs/Governing bodies handle players who refuse to play will be something to watch.
 
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Mighty Joe Young

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The rubber meets the road moment will be when the forfeited dollar and cents are laid out for not completing the season.There will be played who will not show up regardless; but how many is a big question. For the leagues that do go forward, how clubs/FAs/Governing bodies handle players who refuse to play will he something to watch.
There’s an article in the Athletic today talking about this stuff. The writes are of the opinion that clubs can’t force reluctant players to play. The muted suggestion was for any recalcitrant players to donate their weekly wages to a charity of their choice. Of course, this is going to result in massive problems in dressing rooms .. particulary for teams on the relegation bubble. “Come on Sergio .. you have to play for the sake of your teammates if nothing else! Suck it up”


If you don’t have a subscription I highly recommend it.
 

The Raccoon

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Looks like May 22, not May 15 for the Bundesliga as teams have to quarantine for two weeks.

It's actually going to be saturday, May 16 where Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga will restart. Only 1 week of quarantine, since there will be regular testing for all players.

Plan is to finish the remaining 9 matchdays until the end of June (some matchdays will therefore be Tuesday/Wednesday as well).
Teams are asked to increase their squads with youth players to be able to react to positive tests or an (expected) increase in injured players who have only little real practice before being put into real games.
As far as I know, the limit of ingame changes may also be raised from 3 to 5 players.

Bundesliga will be walking a tightrope here and everyone knows it - but as a fan, I'm fucking excited nevertheless...
 

SocrManiac

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Might be worth a nice Bundesliga thread.

In all honesty, I haven’t watched a ton from Germany recently. It’s down to one major reason (those that know me will be shocked): the goalkeeping standard was abhorrent during my formative years. Germany has always produced world class keepers, but never enough to satisfy domestic top flight demands. The howlers that I’d see on a weekly basis made me focus my attention elsewhere. I just wasn’t getting what I needed or wanted.

Like so many other things in life, carrying an old and obsolete prejudice has likely robbed me of some joy. I’m looking forward to rekindling my relationship.
 

candylandriots

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It's actually going to be saturday, May 16 where Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga will restart. Only 1 week of quarantine, since there will be regular testing for all players.

Plan is to finish the remaining 9 matchdays until the end of June (some matchdays will therefore be Tuesday/Wednesday as well).
Teams are asked to increase their squads with youth players to be able to react to positive tests or an (expected) increase in injured players who have only little real practice before being put into real games.
As far as I know, the limit of ingame changes may also be raised from 3 to 5 players.

Bundesliga will be walking a tightrope here and everyone knows it - but as a fan, I'm fucking excited nevertheless...
Where are you in Germany? Who is your team (Berlin/Union here).

I can’t wait.

here is a link to a story with the May 16 start.
 
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