Cora - Yay or Nay for 2023?

Would you bring back AC in 23? Do you think the Sox will bring him back?

  • I would bring him back, and I think the Sox will bring him back

    Votes: 278 82.7%
  • I would not bring him back, but I think the Sox will bring him back

    Votes: 48 14.3%
  • I would bring him back, but I don't think the Sox will bring him back

    Votes: 8 2.4%
  • I would not bring him back, and I don't think the Sox will bring him back

    Votes: 2 0.6%

  • Total voters
    336

tims4wins

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Curious on pulse of SoSH...

Personally I'd probably give him one more year and assess from there, and I think management will bring him back, so I voted the first option
 

yeahlunchbox

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The problem in the organization is Bloom, not Cora. Hopefully ownership doesn't let the GM use the manager as a scapegoat.
 

donutogre

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Agree with your take, personally. He hasn't screwed up to the extent that I think they need a change, but I also think if next year's team isn't more on the ball he could be on the hot seat. Agree that mgmt has given every indication of sticking with him, as well.
 

JCizzle

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I recognize this poll is as much about preference as reality, but it seems pretty clear that the second half of the question is a "yes".

Boston Red Sox president Sam Kennedy 'very comfortable saying' Chaim Bloom, Alex Cora will be back next season (espn.com)
"I am very comfortable saying Chaim and Alex will be back," Kennedy told The Athletic on Monday. "And I am very comfortable saying there is a strong belief in the direction of the franchise from our ownership group. That direction is continuing to build for the future, but also continuing to invest at the major-league level."
 

jon abbey

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The problem in the organization is Bloom, not Cora. Hopefully ownership doesn't let the GM use the manager as a scapegoat.
I think the 'problem' is that it's a seriously loaded division and extremely hard to know how to approach things as a BOS GM. You have BAL who has done a complete rebuild and whose young star players are just starting to emerge, TOR who has a great young core and who is very aggressive trading prospects, TB who seems to be continually reloading, and NYY who are trying to protect their prospect core while continuing to compete now. Really Bloom probably should have done a full-fledge BAL-style reboot from day 1, but I doubt the fan base would have put up with that (and it was not clear that was the way to go at the time).
 

soxhop411

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I think the 'problem' is that it's a seriously loaded division and extremely hard to know how to approach things as a BOS GM. You have BAL who has done a complete rebuild and whose young star players are just starting to emerge, TOR who has a great young core and who is very aggressive trading prospects, TB who seems to be continually reloading, and NYY who are trying to protect their prospect core while continuing to compete now. Really Bloom probably should have done a full-fledge BAL-style reboot from day 1, but I doubt the fan base would have put up with that (and it was not clear that was the way to go at the time).
This may not be as much of an issue come next year, given the new balanced schedule

And will help AL east teams more than others (AL east wont be beating up on each other every season and teams in the AL central for example wont be able to bank easy wins like they used to (looking at you Twins)
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I don't see the purpose in laying this season's outcome at Cora's feet, so I can't see why his job would be in jeopardy.

This was always going to be a tenuously competitive team in an extremely competitive division. If everything broke right, they were going to be a playoff team. If things went wrong, they were going to be hard-pressed to overcome the competition. Things largely went wrong and most of those are out of the control of the GM, the manager, or anyone else (specifically, injuries).
 

cornwalls@6

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Would/will for me. I have some quibbles with him, like the sloppy and stupid base running that plagues this club year in and year out. But I think his teams play hard, and for the most part, he's maintained a professional, drama-free clubhouse. And when he's had healthy talent, he's done very well. However, I think ownership is probably more tethered to Bloom's long term vision for the club, than they are Cora. So if they fail to qualify for the post season next year, and they fear even further declining ticket sales and NESN ratings, I strongly suspect he will be the fall guy then.
 

jon abbey

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This may not be as much of an issue come next year, given the new balanced schedule

And will help AL east teams more than others (AL east wont be beating up on each other every season and teams in the AL central for example wont be able to bank easy wins like they used to (looking at you Twins)
Right, it actually may be more of an issue because AL East teams may have even better records collectively with a presumably weaker schedule.
 

Daniel_Son

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I've got my issues with Cora (bullpen management, keeping players on the bench for "off days" regardless of in-game needs, failure to make timely adjustments to hitting approaches), but overall I think he's one of the better managers in baseball. The players seem to like him. And I don't think Cora alone is responsible for the team's record.

If they disappoint next year, though, he's done. No question.
 

snowmanny

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I'd give him at least two more years. At least. Next year looks dicey, and most Red Sox managers have been awful. He'd have a job faster than Bruce Cassidy if they let him go.
 

E5 Yaz

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I'd give him at least two more years. At least. Next year looks dicey, and most Red Sox managers have been awful. He'd have a job faster than Bruce Cassidy if they let him go.
This is where I am
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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It all really depends on this offseason, doesn't it? If Bloom goes balls out and completely remakes the Major League roster and, you know, actually decides to utilize a rightfielder and first baseman for more than two months, by signing some high priced free agents or make trades that help the Red Sox rather than the Sea Dogs, then bring Cora back. If he's going to stick to his rebuilding plan* then what's the point of keeping Cora? Get someone else who wouldn't mind watching a team lose 90 games while letting the kids figure it out. Cora doesn't need to be here for that, and frankly, he's too good of a manager for a complete rebuild.

* I think that Bloom is not going to wildly change the roster very much this winter. I think that he's going to keep looking for value and if they turn out to be great, that's awesome. If they don't, well, that's okay too. He's not getting Judge and I doubt that he's serious about Rondon. I wouldn't be shocked if he let Bogaerts walk and replaced him with Turner or Swanson (which would be big moves, though I think that he's going to wait them out like he did with Story). Someone suggested that Devers could be stapled to Sale in a deal, and I'm been absolutely terrified that Bloom would do that because that's the perfect Bloom move (and he's done it before).

The problem is that right now, the Red Sox are in a weird no man's land of complete tear down and rebuild and sorta kinda trying to win (or at least give the impression that they're doing the latter) and I think that Bloom is flailing.

TL;DR: it's not Cora's fault, he should only be back if the club fully commits to winning at the ML level.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I'm indifferent but he'll be back.
I think the "problem" isn't Bloom but on upper management's diametrically opposed directives to Bloom. That said, I think Henry, etc... know that their directives are opposing each other "Compete Now! Rebuild for long term!!!" and know that it takes more time to get to that place. Bloom will be here for another 3 years until he's expected to deliver IMO.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I'm indifferent but he'll be back.
I think the "problem" isn't Bloom but on upper management's diametrically opposed directives to Bloom. That said, I think Henry, etc... know that their directives are opposing each other "Compete Now! Rebuild for long term!!!" and know that it takes more time to get to that place. Bloom will be here for another 3 years until he's expected to deliver IMO.
Not for nothing, but Theo Epstein did a pretty good job of this. Maybe the ownership team has outsized expectations?
 

Heating up in the bullpen

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Voted would will. But I hope they think about changing the hitting coach/es. I agree with Daniel_Son about hitting approaches. So many uncompetitive at-bats. Failures at the MLB level of Dalbec, Duran, Cordero. Maybe it’s just lack of talent, or maybe it’s lack of adequate coaching. Even Rafi still swings out of his shoes with his head off in the right field grandstand half the time. That should have been corrected two years ago.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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The bigger question is, does Cora want to come back? I could certainly envision scenarios on which he doesn’t want to and the two sides mutually part ways. But if he wants to come back, I think she should at least get another year and probably two.
 

LogansDad

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I think the 'problem' is that it's a seriously loaded division and extremely hard to know how to approach things as a BOS GM. You have BAL who has done a complete rebuild and whose young star players are just starting to emerge, TOR who has a great young core and who is very aggressive trading prospects, TB who seems to be continually reloading, and NYY who are trying to protect their prospect core while continuing to compete now. Really Bloom probably should have done a full-fledge BAL-style reboot from day 1, but I doubt the fan base would have put up with that (and it was not clear that was the way to go at the time).
I agree with this and would go so far as to say that attempting to compete this season, when it was clear from the get go that they were a step below, has set the team back even further than they would have been otherwise.

That said, I really don't know how much different a full rebuild would have looked like for the 2022 team, since there were so few assets that would have been valuable trade pieces.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Not for nothing, but Theo Epstein did a pretty good job of this. Maybe the ownership team has outsized expectations?
I don’t know…. I think when the old core fell apart Theo was under similar constraints and made some pretty bad decisions then jumped ship. Cherington came in and actually fixed up his mess…. Then ownership seemed to stick their noses in and forced some more bad decisions on him.
 

JOBU

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Voted would/yes. Cora has had a rough season. His issues this season have already been well documented above. My main issue with him has been the handling of the bullpen. How much blame can we really pin upon him though? Cora is hamstrung with the BP that Chaim has “bought” for him. I feel as though it’s unfair to criticize AC too harshly when he has to play Russian Roulette with every arm that comes out of the pen. Any manager would look like a fool with this crew.
 

AB in DC

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For the naysayers, who would you replace him with? I don't think Cora is an A++ manager, but I don't see an obvious candidate on the market who is.
 

mikeford

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Cora is the best manager this team has had since Francona so of course they'll probably fire him instead of the incompetent "Chief Baseball Officer" who actually deserves it.
 

chawson

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It all really depends on this offseason, doesn't it? If Bloom goes balls out and completely remakes the Major League roster and, you know, actually decides to utilize a rightfielder and first baseman for more than two months, by signing some high priced free agents or make trades that help the Red Sox rather than the Sea Dogs, then bring Cora back. If he's going to stick to his rebuilding plan* then what's the point of keeping Cora? Get someone else who wouldn't mind watching a team lose 90 games while letting the kids figure it out. Cora doesn't need to be here for that, and frankly, he's too good of a manager for a complete rebuild.

* I think that Bloom is not going to wildly change the roster very much this winter. I think that he's going to keep looking for value and if they turn out to be great, that's awesome. If they don't, well, that's okay too. He's not getting Judge and I doubt that he's serious about Rondon. I wouldn't be shocked if he let Bogaerts walk and replaced him with Turner or Swanson (which would be big moves, though I think that he's going to wait them out like he did with Story). Someone suggested that Devers could be stapled to Sale in a deal, and I'm been absolutely terrified that Bloom would do that because that's the perfect Bloom move (and he's done it before).

The problem is that right now, the Red Sox are in a weird no man's land of complete tear down and rebuild and sorta kinda trying to win (or at least give the impression that they're doing the latter) and I think that Bloom is flailing.

TL;DR: it's not Cora's fault, he should only be back if the club fully commits to winning at the ML level.
I kind of disagree that Bloom's previous three offseasons are instructive for how he'll be operate this next one. One reason is that Bloom has had exactly zero typical offseasons since he was hired. The first winter was about finding a manager, carrying out the Mookie trade and then watching the pandemic (and Sale and E-Rod injuries) render everything pointless. The second winter was COVID-stricken with plenty of reasonable concern of a shortened season. And last winter was swallowed up by the lockout.

But the bigger reason is that all of this stuff moves in cycles, and we're much farther along ours than we were entering, say, the 2021 season. I think we do see a big move besides a Devers and/or Bogaerts extension. I definitely don't see a Devers/Sale trade, which would be an unprecedented teardown for a Red Sox team and completely unacceptable. Judge will stay in New York. Rodón will sign something in the Gausman/Musgrove/Ray range (5/$110M), and while I think we should be in on it, I doubt it's here.

I personally would be shocked if he replaced Bogaerts with Turner, a speed-first goober whose defense is already slipping -- I think that move punches his ticket out of here -- and I don't think we lure Georgia-born Dansby Swanson away from the Braves. I don't necessarily think we sign Correa, but he does seem almost underrated at this point. If you take his numbers from April 28, accounting for the short spring and spongy baseballs, he's got a 149 wRC+ -- basically a Top-10 hitter in baseball. He doesn't cost a draft pick and almost surely won't take another one-year deal.
 

simplicio

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If Cora and Bloom are on the same page, I want him here for at least the next 2 years while Bloom's guys start to graduate up to Boston.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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I kind of disagree that Bloom's previous three offseasons are instructive for how he'll be operate this next one. One reason is that Bloom has had exactly zero typical offseasons since he was hired. The first winter was about finding a manager, carrying out the Mookie trade and then watching the pandemic (and Sale and E-Rod injuries) render everything pointless. The second winter was COVID-stricken with plenty of reasonable concern of a shortened season. And last winter was swallowed up by the lockout.

But the bigger reason is that all of this stuff moves in cycles, and we're much farther along ours than we were entering, say, the 2021 season. I think we do see a big move besides a Devers and/or Bogaerts extension. I definitely don't see a Devers/Sale trade, which would be an unprecedented teardown for a Red Sox team and completely unacceptable. Judge will stay in New York. Rodón will sign something in the Gausman/Musgrove/Ray range (5/$110M), and while I think we should be in on it, I doubt it's here.

I personally would be shocked if he replaced Bogaerts with Turner, a speed-first goober whose defense is already slipping -- I think that move punches his ticket out of here -- and I don't think we lure Georgia-born Dansby Swanson away from the Braves. I don't necessarily think we sign Correa, but he does seem almost underrated at this point. If you take his numbers from April 28, accounting for the short spring and spongy baseballs, he's got a 149 wRC+ -- basically a Top-10 hitter in baseball. He doesn't cost a draft pick and almost surely won't take another one-year deal.
Regarding Turner. The new pickoff rule will really enhance the value of speed guys. And the shift ban should similarly enhance the value of good up the middle defenders.

Under this years rules I’d take Bogaerts. Next year’s rules then Turner. (Actually I’d still sign Bogaerts. I think the FO is kind of at a crossroads from a credibility standpoint. Letting Bogaerts go or trading Devers will be catastrophic)
 

chawson

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Regarding Turner. The new pickoff rule will really enhance the value of speed guys. And the shift ban should similarly enhance the value of good up the middle defenders.

Under this years rules I’d take Bogaerts. Next year’s rules then Turner. (Actually I’d still sign Bogaerts. I think the FO is kind of at a crossroads from a credibility standpoint. Letting Bogaerts go or trading Devers will be catastrophic)
There’s incalculable handwringing about how an athletic power hitter the size of Aaron Judge might age into his late thirties. I’d be much more concerned how a speedy, slap-hitting so-so shortstop ages in that span.

Besides a potential PR nightmare for us, Turner has traits that don’t age well. He had pretty bad plate discipline and one of the worst swinging strike and chase rates in baseball. He doesn’t hit the ball especially hard, and he leads baseball in infield hits (30), which is not going to be true in year three of his inevitably 7- or 8-year deal. Plus he reportedly wants to stay in LA. I don’t know why you wouldn’t just keep Bogaerts.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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There’s incalculable handwringing about how an athletic power hitter the size of Aaron Judge might age into his late thirties. I’d be much more concerned how a speedy, slap-hitting so-so shortstop ages in that span.

Besides a potential PR nightmare for us, Turner has traits that don’t age well. He had pretty bad plate discipline and one of the worst swinging strike and chase rates in baseball. He doesn’t hit the ball especially hard, and he leads baseball in infield hits (30), which is not going to be true in year three of his inevitably 7- or 8-year deal. Plus he reportedly wants to stay in LA. I don’t know why you wouldn’t just keep Bogaerts.
Err .. I DO want to keep Bogaerts (see above) . Just about anyone they sign as a replacement is going to have the same age related decline.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Except Theo had the huge advantage of scoring multiple compensation picks when they let the aging core leave.
That’s probably true. But his first two drafts were good. In 2003 four of the top six made the Majors with Papelbon being the best. In 2004, three of the top five made the Majors with Pedroia being the jewel of that crown.

And I agree with you Chawson, they should just keep Bogaerts. He’s easily the class of shortstops this year. Anything else would be a downgrade.
 

A Bad Man

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We almost made the World Series last year. A rash of injuries this year. I want Bloom and Cora for 20 more years.
 

chawson

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Err .. I DO want to keep Bogaerts (see above) . Just about anyone they sign as a replacement is going to have the same age related decline.
Sorry, I meant to direct that at the rhetorical you, not you personally, and I agree with you. I think I just used your post as a springboard to go off on another anti-Turner rant.
 

soxin6

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We almost made the World Series last year. A rash of injuries this year. I want Bloom and Cora for 20 more years.
While there have been a rash of injuries this year, this team was lucky to get to where they did last year. A team can get hot at just the right time, but last year’s team did not have anywhere near the talent of the other three teams that played in the LCS.
 

Auger34

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There’s incalculable handwringing about how an athletic power hitter the size of Aaron Judge might age into his late thirties. I’d be much more concerned how a speedy, slap-hitting so-so shortstop ages in that span.

Besides a potential PR nightmare for us, Turner has traits that don’t age well. He had pretty bad plate discipline and one of the worst swinging strike and chase rates in baseball. He doesn’t hit the ball especially hard, and he leads baseball in infield hits (30), which is not going to be true in year three of his inevitably 7- or 8-year deal. Plus he reportedly wants to stay in LA. I don’t know why you wouldn’t just keep Bogaerts.
If this is referencing old tweets of Turners I really don’t think Bloom cares. He kept Brasier around, traded for a backup catcher that got caught jerking off in a parking lot as well as an unpopular Asshole who slaps people over memes he doesn’t like.

I don’t want to litigate whether Bloom is good or bad at his job (personally I am pretty neutral on him, though I think his “plan” is pretty scattershot at best) but it’s kind of amazing how much time is spent discussing things that he pretty obviously won’t do or doesn’t care about. There’s no way in hell that he’s paying market rate for Aaron Judge as a free agent, he won’t pay market value for his own players when there are no other teams he’s bidding against. He obviously doesn’t care about “PR firestorms” if the talent is at a certain level. I mean, fuck, Reese McGuire wasn’t coveted at all by major league teams and wss a PR firestorm and there was no hesitance in acquiring him
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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If Cora and Bloom are on the same page, I want him here for at least the next 2 years while Bloom's guys start to graduate up to Boston.
I somewhat agree. I absolutely give them both until the trade deadline next year. If there are no signs of improvement it may be time to cut bait.
 

BravesField

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While there have been a rash of injuries this year, this team was lucky to get to where they did last year. A team can get hot at just the right time, but last year’s team did not have anywhere near the talent of the other three teams that played in the LCS.
I said the same thing a month ago, and this board pulled a Blondie move on me - Rip Her To Shreds. Let's see how well you fare....
 

Rovin Romine

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Voted no/yes.

Cora has his plusses and minuses, but on balance, I think he's best suited to managing a veteran team he can mostly "get out of the way of." I don't think that will be the case in 2023/24.

I can't lay 2022 at his feet, given the lockout and the injuries. But I also can't say he (and his coaching staff) rose to the occasion. During the regular season, Cora's just not the type of guy who can adapt and maximally align things to scratch out an extra win or two when the going gets tough. It's very much "do the same thing, it all comes out in the wash." This is very much a deliberate choice since we know he can play a short series well. But the results make me question the wisdom of that deliberate choice.

For the naysayers, who would you replace him with? I don't think Cora is an A++ manager, but I don't see an obvious candidate on the market who is.
Mediocrity might be the best the Sox can do or develop.

Or perhaps they believe Cora (and his coaching staff) can learn and will adapt to the new rules and hitting/pitching/base-stealing environment. I don't see it though.
 

iddoc

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Nov 17, 2006
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I voted would/yes but share the concerns eloquently expressed by Rovin Romine et al about the team’s general approach to hitting this year (and last). Not enough walks, too much chasing outside the zone. I don’t know how much Cora is to blame for this, but the organization needs to re-examine at least this aspect of their coaching.
 

Ale Xander

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They need to improve hitting and pitching coaches and get a baserunning specialist (not necessarily a 1B/3B coach) before trying and failing to improve the manager.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I didn’t want Cora back in ‘23 but also wasn’t adamant about it. He has pluses and minuses but at 1/3 through this season I think his weaknesses are becoming harder to cover by his strengths and he’s been a net negative. I think more than anything at this point the Sox need a change of culture…. The ‘24 team should belong to a different manager. It’s almost a completely different team than the one he took over and brought to the World Series.
There also is a pretty good history of new managers coming in and taking the team to the WS in their first year…. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence right?
 

Lose Remerswaal

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There also is a pretty good history of new managers coming in and taking the team to the WS in their first year…. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence right?
my memory of Manager start dates isn’t strong, but I think Cora was the last one and John Farrell was the one before that, so maybe it’s just a Sox thing? Tito in 2004, too!

By George, have you cracked the code?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'm curious what the culture is that needs to change via a managerial switch. Not saying there isn't a need, I just don't know what it is. The stories early in the year seemed to indicate that there was a notable culture change in the clubhouse just with the roster shifts and new leadership among the players. Is there something more that a new manager could do?
 

bosockboy

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I'm curious what the culture is that needs to change via a managerial switch. Not saying there isn't a need, I just don't know what it is. The stories early in the year seemed to indicate that there was a notable culture change in the clubhouse just with the roster shifts and new leadership among the players. Is there something more that a new manager could do?
Seems like poor defense has become systemic.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I made the comment and it’s on a variety of mental aspects- baserunning, defense, plate approach seems lacking a plan and is just every man for himself there. That to me is all together connected to coaching. Add in his poor bullpen management (which I don’t think is r terrible but also not good) and his positives- public and press management… getting vets and young to balance playing time… matchups against opposing pitchers and (despite some setbacks) pinch hitting appropriately.
I before thought him a net neutral but think he’s losing the discipline angle and it’s showing in the focus. That’s “culture” tk me
 

Rovin Romine

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I made the comment and it’s on a variety of mental aspects- baserunning, defense, plate approach seems lacking a plan and is just every man for himself there. That to me is all together connected to coaching. Add in his poor bullpen management (which I don’t think is r terrible but also not good) and his positives- public and press management… getting vets and young to balance playing time… matchups against opposing pitchers and (despite some setbacks) pinch hitting appropriately.
I before thought him a net neutral but think he’s losing the discipline angle and it’s showing in the focus. That’s “culture” tk me
Well, Cora's managerial tendencies have changed. He's pinch hitting a lot more for example - but he's still not using his players' speed to steal. The "Rate+" stats are compared to the league, not MLB total (e.g., he's now, just this year, a hair above average with PH.)

Code:
                                        Steal 2                Steal 3                Sac                  Intet Walks                          Subs
Rk   Year Age  Tm Lg   G   Ch Att Rate Rate+   Ch Att Rate Rate+   Ch Att Rate Rate+    PA IBB Rate Rate+ PH/G PH/G+ PR/G PR/G+ P/G P/G+
1    2018  42 BOS AL 162 1482 131 8.8%   130 1034  20 1.9%   135 1521   7 0.5%    42  6166   8 0.1%    38 0.62   100 0.14    68 4.3  100
2    2019  43 BOS AL 162 1586  83 5.2%    87  981  13 1.3%    98 1521  18 1.2%   116  6400  22 0.3%   119 0.80   137 0.18   108 4.9  111
                                                                                                                                       
3    2021  45 BOS AL 162 1384  46 3.3%    57  999  12 1.2%    83 1437  10 0.7%    72  6147  31 0.5%   198 0.59    96 0.14    84 4.5  103
4    2022  46 BOS AL 162 1437  60 4.2%    65 1032   9 0.9%    63 1537  12 0.8%    82  6167  17 0.3%   103 0.57    85 0.12    57 4.6  105
5    2023  47 BOS AL  58  517  34 6.6%    80  370   2 0.5%    30  544   4 0.7%    91  2203   2 0.1%    32 1.00   136 0.28   126 4.1   98
             5 years 706 6406 354 5.5%    86 4416  56 1.3%    88 6560  51 0.8%    78 27083  80 0.3%   102 0.68   107 0.15    82 4.5  104
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 6/4/2023.