Cora in line for major suspension?

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Comeback Kid

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Does anyone think
Right, because everything in a report is always factual. Just ask Ted Wells.
Actually is interesting that report lays most of the blame on Cora when he is no longer with the team, and goes out of its way to say Luhnow knew little about it and Hinch tried to stop it. Maybe everyone in Houston threw Cora under the bus since he is with the Sox.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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I'd love to know who if anyone backed up Hinch's claim that he "disapproved" of the system, and that he "disabled" the monitors (by what, turning them off??). What kind of weak-ass manager silently disapproves of his players and coaches cheating? If you disapprove, then stop it. You're the manager. If you don't stop it, then you don't really disapprove. Manfred clearly didn't excuse Hinch's failure to, you know, do his f'n job.

But I don't actually buy Hinch's story. Sounds like after-the-fact excuse-making, made possible because Cora is gone, and done to try to mitigate the penalty.

For Cora to be suspended, I think Manfred will want to know that he took some kind of cheating on to the Sox. Otherwise, the part of his reasoning behind not penalizing players who have moved on to other clubs would apply to Cora as well. He'd likely just get a big fine. But if he did cheat with Boston, then he's going to get hammered.

So we'll likely need at least a fill-in. Paging Joe Morgan...!
 

Average Reds

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Cora may be banned.
It's hard to read Manfred's comments about Cora and not come to the conclusion that he'll be suspended for multiple years if not banned.

Right, because everything in a report is always factual. Just ask Ted Wells.
Other than to make yourself feel important, what is the purpose of this comment?

There is no CBA that covers coaches and team employees. So, whether accurate or not, Manfred's report on the issue is the final word.
 

Gdiguy

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I'd love to know who if anyone backed up Hinch's claim that he "disapproved" of the system, and that he "disabled" the monitors (by what, turning them off??). What kind of weak-ass manager silently disapproves of his players and coaches cheating? If you disapprove, then stop it. You're the manager. If you don't stop it, then you don't really disapprove. Manfred clearly didn't excuse Hinch's failure to, you know, do his f'n job.

But I don't actually buy Hinch's story. Sounds like after-the-fact excuse-making, made possible because Cora is gone, and done to try to mitigate the penalty.

For Cora to be suspended, I think Manfred will want to know that he took some kind of cheating on to the Sox. Otherwise, the part of his reasoning behind not penalizing players who have moved on to other clubs would apply to Cora as well. He'd likely just get a big fine. But if he did cheat with Boston, then he's going to get hammered.

So we'll likely need at least a fill-in. Paging Joe Morgan...!
The reasoning for not penalizing players has more to do with it being impossible to judge whether a player was participating because they felt that their playing time was dependent on following the lead of the rest of the team and (especially) managerial staff.

I think Cora's in deep shit here - one year is the minimum I'm expecting based on what Hinch got and the MLB statements say about his participation and control.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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I just can't believe the Smartest Man in Baseball ™ would get his first managerial job and implement a sign stealing scheme in the very organization that just got smacked down for doing that exact thing a year earlier. The arrogance and stupidity is astounding.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Actually is interesting that report lays most of the blame on Cora when he is no longer with the team, and goes out of its way to say Luhnow knew little about it and Hinch tried to stop it. Maybe everyone in Houston threw Cora under the bus since he is with the Sox.
I suspect Cora was interviewed as well. If this were a he-said he-said and Cora were trying to lay the blame on others, one would think Manfred would have noted a conflict in the various accounts.

The report reads as though Cora acknowledged his role. If Cora was not interviewed, then, yeah, possibly. The report does not say exactly who the 68 who were interviewed were. If we find out that Manfred actually resolved disputed facts without disclosing the he-said/he-said dispute or that Cora wasn't interviewed, then it would suggest the possibility that Cora is being thrown under the bus. I really haven't seen anything from Manfred to suggest that he rolls like that.
 

Shaky Walton

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It would be shocking if Cora is not fired...the only questions are timing and who Bloom gets to replace him and anyone else fired along with him.

The more enduring concern I have is how this stink will follow around the 2018 team. The greatest Sox team we ever saw, at least record wise, will seemingly always be referred to in the same breath along with this sign stealing crap.
 

Comeback Kid

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I suspect Cora was interviewed as well. If this were a he-said he-said and Cora were trying to lay the blame on others, one would think Manfred would have noted a conflict in the various accounts.

The report reads as though Cora acknowledged his role. If Cora was not interviewed, then, yeah, possibly. The report does not say exactly who the 68 who were interviewed were. If we find out that Manfred actually resolved disputed facts without disclosing the he-said/he-said dispute or that Cora wasn't interviewed, then it would suggest the possibility that Cora is being thrown under the bus. I really haven't seen anything from Manfred to suggest that he rolls like that.
Good points, Cora likely was interviewed about this.
 

Average Reds

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It would be shocking if Cora is not fired...the only questions are timing and who Bloom gets to replace him and anyone else fired along with him.
My guess is they will line up a manager now and wait for the actual report to fire him.

The more enduring concern I have is how this stink will follow around the 2018 team. The greatest Sox team we ever saw, at least record wise, will seemingly always be referred to in the same breath along with this sign stealing crap.
Nothing anyone can do about this.
 

DeadlySplitter

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just seeing this... very disappointed Cora was behind the trash cans as well.

I would just fire him and move on. very sad
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Good points, Cora likely was interviewed about this.
You sort of wonder how this all played out. If the Commissioner decided early on that no player would be disciplined, I would think the way it could have gone was that every player was told, "there will be no discipline here for you if you answer completely honestly, but if not all bets are off."

If that, or something like it, got the players to roll, then he had everything he needed. Because then they can basically ask the managers questions the league already knows the answer to with enough detail to make the managers know for sure that they better tell the truth.

The report is written in a way that suggests the underlying facts are not really in dispute. If we start hearing from Hinch or Cora differently, it might be interesting. But I don't think Manfred does what he just did without being pretty certain what happened and what everyone's role was.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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If that, or something like it, got the players to roll, then he had everything he needed. Because then they can basically ask the managers questions the league already knows the answer to with enough detail to make the managers know for sure that they better tell the truth.
I'd put my money on this. IIRC, there was a report or MLB statement as the investigation began about people being held accountable for not being 100% truthful in the course of the investigation.
 

jon abbey

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You sort of wonder how this all played out. If the Commissioner decided early on that no player would be disciplined, I would think the way it could have gone was that every player was told, "there will be no discipline here for you if you answer completely honestly, but if not all bets are off."
Yes, I don't have a citation but I read earlier that this is exactly what happened, which is why Beltran's testimony changed drastically from what he had been saying in public about this.
 

InstaFace

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The more enduring concern I have is how this stink will follow around the 2018 team. The greatest Sox team we ever saw, at least record wise, will seemingly always be referred to in the same breath along with this sign stealing crap.
(1) I have real memories that actually happened. That team was SO DAMN FUN to follow, game to game and week to week, certainly mostly based on its overall success but also the personalities and attitudes and narrative arc. Frankly, so was the 2019 team, they just didn't all quite have epic seasons all at the same time.
(2) I also personally know that, barring further allegations, they weren't doing anything that all their opponents weren't also doing, and even that much was actively prevented by MLB themselves when in the postseason. They won that title fair and square.

So my conscience is clean with respect to those memories. If other people want to wring their hands about it, that's on them, I don't feel the slightest bit bad about it. The Cincinnati Reds' 1919 championship banner hangs today, and likewise the banner for the 2018 Red Sox will hang up a century from now.
 

JimD

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(1) I have real memories that actually happened. That team was SO DAMN FUN to follow, game to game and week to week, certainly mostly based on its overall success but also the personalities and attitudes and narrative arc. Frankly, so was the 2019 team, they just didn't all quite have epic seasons all at the same time.
(2) I also personally know that, barring further allegations, they weren't doing anything that all their opponents weren't also doing, and even that much was actively prevented by MLB themselves when in the postseason. They won that title fair and square.

So my conscience is clean with respect to those memories. If other people want to wring their hands about it, that's on them, I don't feel the slightest bit bad about it. The Cincinnati Reds' 1919 championship banner hangs today, and likewise the banner for the 2018 Red Sox will hang up a century from now.
To add to this, MLB is on record that personnel were on hand during the 2018 postseason to ensure that the replay monitors weren't being used for nefarious purposes. So, there is no way the supposed sign-stealing scheme could have been taking place when the Sox rolled the Yankees, Astros and Dodgers en route to the championship.
 

Le Bastonois

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Is the bench coach an assistant manager? Or is he just like the 1st and 3rd base coaches? Lots of guys have been bench coaches that never made it to MLB managers. What he didn't wasn't under the pretense of a manager if he was just like the other coaches. Price is Right style, I am saying 6 months.

Edit: Then I think he's sacked. Varitek? Cathers make good managers.
 
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P'tucket rhymes with...

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Actually is interesting that report lays most of the blame on Cora when he is no longer with the team, and goes out of its way to say Luhnow knew little about it and Hinch tried to stop it. Maybe everyone in Houston threw Cora under the bus since he is with the Sox.
The Athletic reports that MLB had something like 76,000+ emails to wade through, plus some slack coms. Doesn't sound like unsubstantiated "he said/he said" stuff.
 

Ale Xander

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Is it a prudent idea to explore trading Betts a bit more given that the farm system is likely going to take a hit with draft pick penalties?
I think the opposite. They need him more than ever this year. Do everything they can to sign him.
 

biff_hardbody

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The Ref Sox have already waited to long to fire Cora. Why would you give any inclination that you condone his methods? Distance yourself now and try to minimize organizational penalties.
 

Red Averages

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We can probably say goodbye to the 17th pick in the MLB draft this year....
It seems likely Cora will be suspended/fired for his actions with the Astros. Have we heard the Red Sox were cheating to the same extent as the Astros? If not, the Red Sox should not be penalized to the same extent. That said, we'll see what other information comes out.
 

jon abbey

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Interesting approach by LoMo to rat out the MFY and the Dodgers too. Just not sure if he means back in 2014 they pulled this or recently.
Yeah, to be clear I wasn't trying to whitewash anything, I didn't see that other part until after I posted.
 

Ed Hillel

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Here's a question: If the Sox get hammered in draft picks like the Astros, or worse, does Chaim make a break and quit? Sucks to be handicapped so badly in your first major market role.
 

jon abbey

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Here's a question: If the Sox get hammered in draft picks like the Astros, or worse, does Chaim make a break and quit? Sucks to be handicapped so badly in your first major market role.
He was ready to take the Mets job last year, no bigger handicap than working for the Wilpons. :)

So I would say no and also that he probably had a pretty good idea what was going to happen here when he signed up.
 

dhappy42

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Suspensions and draft picks aside, seems to me the simplest solution to the electronic sign-stealing problem is to get rid of video replay review rooms. Make managers make review decisions based on what they see on the field and what players say.
 

moondog80

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Any good reason that Billy McMillon shouldn't be given a shot? Solid MiLB resume and it seems like most of the players who came up through the system played for him at one point.
Having never gotten an MLB job, I suppose he might be willing to play along and keep the seat warm for Cora just to get his foot in the door (should the Sox decide to go that route).
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Suspensions and draft picks aside, seems to me the simplest solution to the electronic sign-stealing problem is to get rid of video replay review rooms. Make managers make review decisions based on what they see on the field and what players say.
Why? They installed personnel to monitor the room in 2018.

FWIW, Logan Morrison posted that he thinks that HOU's cheating started well before Cora was there:

View: https://twitter.com/KyleNYY/status/1216830546803818496
Manfred just signed himself up for a tenure filled with wall to wall investigations.
 

BornToRun

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It seems likely Cora will be suspended/fired for his actions with the Astros. Have we heard the Red Sox were cheating to the same extent as the Astros? If not, the Red Sox should not be penalized to the same extent. That said, we'll see what other information comes out.
Granted that I haven’t followed this very closely, I’m already a Patriots fan so I don’t have the energy to pay much more attention to cheating scandals, but I thought I heard that what we were doing was more akin to jaywalking while the Astros committed murder. Now we’re going to be the subject of some extreme punishment?

I’ll say that I like Cora as the manager and was hoping that he’d be able to survive this with a slap on the wrist. That no longer seems likely which sucks.

And as far as guilt or stains on the legacy of the 2018 team goes, who gives a shit? Unless they’re gonna start vacating titles, I really don’t care. Doesn’t matter, got trophy.
 

Teachdad46

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It would have been interesting to see what would have happened to Cora if there were no allegations against the Red Sox.

That would have put the Commish in a difficult spot -- do you punish the Red Sox for something that its manager did before he got there? Even if he masterminded it.

But with the 2018 allegations, none of that matters now. Even if, on the culpability spectrum, what the Red Sox did in 2018 was less pernicious and more closely in line with an "everyone is doing it" defense, it just doesn't matter. The mere fact of some improper conduct while he was here makes it so that the team is screwed.

Henry has to be apoplectic. I wonder whether they will even wait for MLB's findings before they act.
They will not.
This is going to derail the Sox' chances in 2020 if they don't pull it up by the roots immediately.
Maybe AC sees a small window to eventual partial redemption if he falls on his own sword. If not, off with him as head.
 

mauf

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Guess I’m in the minority — unless what happened in Boston on Cora’s watch is worse than we’ve heard, I’d gladly welcome him back after a suspension of not more than one year, with someone currently on staff handling interim managerial duties. (If Cora’s suspension extends into the 2021 season, however, then I agree the Sox need to move on.)

Stealing signs is gamesmanship. Cora went too far and should be punished; he doesn’t need to me made a pariah. It’s a lot different than betting on games, or even PEDs (though I think the moral outrage over PED use is overblown too).
 

Dewey'sCannon

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If I'm John Henry, I'd at least suspend Cora indefinitely now based on the Manfred report on the Astros, pending the results of the investigation into the 2018 red Sox. And I'd seriously consider just firing him now. I think Cora's going to get at least a one-year suspension from Manfred.

Suspending or firing Cora now gives the team a head start on finding a replacement, on either an interim or permanent basis. Whether Roenicke or any of the other coaches should be considered depends to a large extent on whether they will be implicated in the 2018 investigation, which we don't know yet (but the front office may have some info on this). Since Tek's role was outside of the coaching staff, there's a better chance he's outside this, and is probably the most obvious candidate who's readily available. But he would need an experienced bench coach, Roenicke or otherwise.

EDIT: and I agree with TeachDad - the honorable thing here would be for Cora to resign immediately (and apologize to fans in both Houston and Boston, and across MLB).
 

lexrageorge

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Guess I’m in the minority — unless what happened in Boston on Cora’s watch is worse than we’ve heard, I’d gladly welcome him back after a suspension of not more than one year, with someone currently on staff handling interim managerial duties. (If Cora’s suspension extends into the 2021 season, however, then I agree the Sox need to move on.)

Stealing signs is gamesmanship. Cora went too far and should be punished; he doesn’t need to me made a pariah. It’s a lot different than betting on games, or even PEDs (though I think the moral outrage over PED use is overblown too).
I would agree with you that in isolation, what the Sox did with the replay video feed was small potatoes. Honestly, I think Manfred way overreacted with the Astros punishment, but as it's been noted in the other thread, the gambling connection makes a lot sense. Anyway, ....

Had the Sox never implemented the idiotic Apple Watch scheme and 2017, and had the Astros never banged on the trash cans, the violation would have at the very worst likely resulted in at most a 30-day suspension for Cora and possibly a small fine and some minor draft pick penalties. Probably a lot less.

The problem is that the Cora basically "ignored the Commissioner's memo" when they did their childish (and mostly useless) scheme to decode signals via the video feed. With the precedent having been set with the Astros penalties, and with the Sox basically being a repeat offender, the sign stealing violation will not be taken lightly, and the team will feel some pain. A multi-million dollar fine is not nothing for a team that is suddenly trying to be frugal, and draft pick penalties will hurt a team that is right at the point of trying to restock their farm system. And now Henry and Bloom are going to have to likely find an interim manager to manage the 2020 team, something they did not want to have to do.

I personally have no problem keeping Cora around. However, given the above, I can see Henry saying "You know, what Cora did was really stupid, and now we as an organization are going to be paying for it. He fired". And I would fully understand.
 

Salem's Lot

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Here's a question: If the Sox get hammered in draft picks like the Astros, or worse, does Chaim make a break and quit? Sucks to be handicapped so badly in your first major market role.
Not a chance. There are only 30 of these jobs, and only a couple in this kind of market. He has the chance to turn the organization around and I bet he relishes the opportunity.
 
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