Conference Realignment Thread

RingoOSU

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Jerry Jones needs 12 teams to have his conference championship game at his stadium, so there's his motive.

I know most of you know this already, just stating the obvious.
 

Sea Bass Neely

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QUOTE (JMDurron @ Jun 17 2010, 10:00 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3028485
Some of the articles about the Big 12 remnants staying together seemed to imply a sense of relief from various unnamed anti-Super Conference interests, but your bolded point keeps coming to mind. The Big 10 can keep expanding East just as the Pac-10 tried to, and then you have the potential dominoes falling in the Big East/ACC and SEC. I agree with you, and am a little surprised at the tone of some of the articles being written right now. It's not over yet. Do you have any idea what kind of timetable the Big 10 is on for making decisions about Eastward expansion?


My guess is 18-24 months for the Big Ten to be complete. Rutgers being the next domino to fall.
 

TomRicardo

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QUOTE (JMDurron @ Jun 17 2010, 04:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3029062
More Arkansas to the Big12 Rumors.

Big 12 Sources Say Arkansas Has Put Out Feelers



Since no Conference Realignment rumor mongering is truly complete without mentioning ND:


God Texas fans are the most delusional in college sports. Can you imagine the conversation with Notre Dame?

Well you are going to have to give up either Navy, Michigan, Michigan St., or USC game and your NBC contract but you get to play Kansas and Iowa St and Texas every other year!

At what point does Notre Dame laugh the Big 12 rep out of the office?
 

mabrowndog

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QUOTE (TomRicardo @ Jun 17 2010, 06:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3029289
God Texas fans are the most delusional in college sports. Can you imagine the conversation with Notre Dame?

Well you are going to have to give up either Navy, Michigan, Michigan St., or USC game and your NBC contract but you get to play Kansas and Iowa St and Texas every other year!

At what point does Notre Dame laugh the Big 12 rep out of the office?

No shit. And you didn't even mention Stanford and The Legends Trophy, or Purdue and the Shillelagh Trophy.
 

AgentOrange

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QUOTE (TomRicardo @ Jun 17 2010, 05:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3029289
God Texas fans are the most delusional in college sports. Can you imagine the conversation with Notre Dame?

Well you are going to have to give up either Navy, Michigan, Michigan St., or USC game and your NBC contract but you get to play Kansas and Iowa St and Texas every other year!

At what point does Notre Dame laugh the Big 12 rep out of the office?


Believe me, Notre Dame would be fools to pass up an opportunity to bask in Texas' warm glowing warmth.
 

Sea Dog

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QUOTE (TomRicardo @ Jun 17 2010, 06:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3029289
God Texas fans are the most delusional in college sports. Can you imagine the conversation with Notre Dame?

Well you are going to have to give up either Navy, Michigan, Michigan St., or USC game and your NBC contract but you get to play Kansas and Iowa St and Texas every other year!

At what point does Notre Dame laugh the Big 12 rep out of the office?

Forget about the opponents. think of it more as Notre Dame getting the same deal Texas has now -- their own TV network (NBC) and unequal revenue sharing (all road games would be on TV) to maximize every dollar possible. It's the only BCS conference at the moment where Notre Dame could still do what it's doing now.
 

TomRicardo

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QUOTE (Sea Dog @ Jun 18 2010, 01:51 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3031946
Forget about the opponents. think of it more as Notre Dame getting the same deal Texas has now -- their own TV network (NBC) and unequal revenue sharing (all road games would be on TV) to maximize every dollar possible. It's the only BCS conference at the moment where Notre Dame could still do what it's doing now.


Wait Notre Dame could be doing what they are doing now with an infinitely shittier schedule and having to kiss Texas ass? Where do they sign up!

Big 12 has zero appeal to Notre Dame. They are more likely to join the Big East where they would still be able to do what they wanted.
 

JMDurron

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QUOTE (Sea Bass Neely @ Jun 17 2010, 05:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3029278
My guess is 18-24 months for the Big Ten to be complete. Rutgers being the next domino to fall.


Complete as in "all teams fully playing in the new conference alignment", or complete as in "announced the last team to be added"? I'd be disappointed if they left us hanging for another 18-24 months. I want more NCAA football chaos now, damnit! :rolling:
 

axx

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QUOTE (Sea Bass Neely @ Jun 17 2010, 06:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3029278
My guess is 18-24 months for the Big Ten to be complete. Rutgers being the next domino to fall.


Yeah but that would totally kill the Big Ten's "we only want good schools" spiel. Besides, I don't think it would work. New York (and Boston for that matter) are only really interested in local Pro teams. The better plan is to go south and take Texas when the Texas Ten Conference inevitably craters.
 

roundegotrip

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Aggie rage:

QUOTE
Since the announcement was released Monday evening, a firestorm of anger and criticism over the decision to stay in the modified Big 12 erupted from Texas A&M students, former students, and fans onto Loftin’s Facebook page, Internet sports information networks like Scout.com, and social networking web sites where fans and supporters congregate. More importantly for Texas A&M athletic director Bill Byrne and the 12th Man Foundation which is the fund raising arm of the athletic department, a significant group of donors have vehemently condemned the move and have threatened to cancel season tickets and remove sizeable pledges to fund upcoming capital projects including the planned multi-million dollar renovation of its baseball stadium that is scheduled to begin in the next seven months.


The Big 12-2 is going to be a fun place to be.
 

Sea Bass Neely

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QUOTE (JMDurron @ Jun 18 2010, 09:21 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3032207
Complete as in "all teams fully playing in the new conference alignment", or complete as in "announced the last team to be added"? I'd be disappointed if they left us hanging for another 18-24 months. I want more NCAA football chaos now, damnit! :rolling:


I would guess, and this is just a guess, but announced. As in like Nebraska is here in 2011, X is here in 2012, and Y in 2013 - and then we're done.

QUOTE (axx @ Jun 18 2010, 05:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3033228
Yeah but that would totally kill the Big Ten's "we only want good schools" spiel. Besides, I don't think it would work. New York (and Boston for that matter) are only really interested in local Pro teams. The better plan is to go south and take Texas when the Texas Ten Conference inevitably craters.


It'll bring in research money and grow the BTN footprint. Those are probably enough to make it a "good school." It isn't bringing in schools like Texas Tech or Kansas State who can't contribute enough to the CIC.

It also plays into forcing ND's hand a bit, which I'm sure they want.
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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I guess the Mountain West taking a tenth wife was the last straw.

BYU is an interesting case. They often have overage players because use of red-shirting and the missions means the five-to-play-four clock starts at 21.

But the big question is how do their fans travel. This only pays off if they get major bowl bids. And with no automatic bowl tie-ins, they could learn a costly lesson if the BCS bowls don't feel it would be profitable to invite them.
 

Infield Infidel

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They could still get the non-BCS auto bid if they are the highest non-BCS team in the top 12 (or 16 if ahead of a BCS conf champ).

I think a bigger worry is what bowls would they go to otherwise. They'd have to do what Army and Navy do and sign deals directly with bowls. Probably the Las Vegas Bowl since their fans don't mind going there almost every year already. Maybe a bowl in Hawaii too. But getting to the next level, like the Holiday or Cotton or something, should be their goal (albeit a difficult one). They'd have to sign something like what ND used to do and have a once-every-four-years deal. Not sure if they have that appeal.

Edit -I doubt they could do what ND does now and piggy-back on another conference. Now seeing that they could go to the WAC for other sports might help them get into a WAC bowl, and might make the WAC look better when signing new bowl deals.

On the plus-side, they already have their own network, and it's pretty available on cable out west and on DirectTV.

BYU and Utah leaving pretty much kills the Mountain West's chance at a BCS spot. Both teams have routinely won 10 games that last few years. They could go full bore and get to twelve or more teams, but no one in the WAC or C-USA is nearly as consistantly good as Utah or BYU.
 

Infield Infidel

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While BYU isn't official yet, Fresno St and Nevada are leaving the WAC for the Mountain West http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5474774

SALT LAKE CITY -- Fresno State and Nevada are leaving the Western Athletic Conference for the Mountain West.

The schools ended a wild Wednesday by announcing they are accepting invitations to join the Mountain West, which has added three prominent members of WAC in the last two months.

Boise State is already bound for the MWC next year and now the Bulldogs and Wolf Pack are following as well, leaving the WAC's future in question and the Mountain West preparing for life after Utah and possibly BYU.
Fresno could get back to prominence, but Nevada is a bit a yawn.

This kinda screws BYU if they leave, since the remaining WAC teams (Hawaii, New Mex St, San Jose St, Idaho, Utah St, Louisiana Tech) are all crappy, and might be forced to add lower-level schools like North Texas or even FCS teams like Montana. Since BYU is supposed to play a handful of WAC teams if they go Independent, these are really unattractive teams to play yearly. That said, these teams and a BCS school or two has twice been Boise St's route to the BCS
 

Sea Dog

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Or, BYU could team with the West Coast Conference, made by and large of religious schools.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5474774

WCC commissioner Jamie Zaninovich told ESPN.com early Wednesday that the league would be interested in pursuing BYU for all sports except football. Zaninovich said BYU would fit well with the other church-based institutions in the eight-team league. Zaninovich told ESPN.com that he reached out to BYU but had not heard back.
Figure there would be worse things than being in am ESPN-affiliated men's basketball conference with Gonzaga and St. Marys. And geographically, BYU might prefer to travel up and down the Pacific Coast -- like Utah in the Pac-12 -- as opposed to being lumped in with schools from Texas and Louisiana, where the LDS numbers aren't near as strong. Certainly a pitch worth making for the WCC, knowing BYU might listen after what happened to the WAC today.
 

Spacemans Bong

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I guess the Mountain West taking a tenth wife was the last straw.

BYU is an interesting case. They often have overage players because use of red-shirting and the missions means the five-to-play-four clock starts at 21.

But the big question is how do their fans travel. This only pays off if they get major bowl bids. And with no automatic bowl tie-ins, they could learn a costly lesson if the BCS bowls don't feel it would be profitable to invite them.
Pretty damn well if you've ever wondered who those white kids with ties, a smile and a book in their hand are.
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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While BYU isn't official yet, Fresno St and Nevada are leaving the WAC for the Mountain West http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5474774



Fresno could get back to prominence, but Nevada is a bit a yawn.

This kinda screws BYU if they leave, since the remaining WAC teams (Hawaii, New Mex St, San Jose St, Idaho, Utah St, Louisiana Tech) are all crappy, and might be forced to add lower-level schools like North Texas or even FCS teams like Montana. Since BYU is supposed to play a handful of WAC teams if they go Independent, these are really unattractive teams to play yearly. That said, these teams and a BCS school or two has twice been Boise St's route to the BCS
It's a four-year process to move from the FCS. Since there's currently a four-year moratorium on applications (it expires next year, the earliest a school could join the FBS is the 2015-16 season). Montana is a possibility (one of the few in the FCS with the local support necessary for such a move) at that point. But it's really dragging the bottom. Texas State is actively looking to make the move to the FBS when the moratorium expires. They have talked about being a FBS independent, but the new rules require an FBS conference affiliation to make the move. So the MW expansion is actually big news at Texas State. Though they need more attendance to meet the requirement of 15,000.

I feel bad for Hawaii, which has a good program, is academically more on a level with the BCS conferences, but due to the geography is not a desirable conference partner.

Fresno State, Nevada and Boise State were the cream of the WAC. Yes, Nevada has decent measurables for a non-BCS school. There is pretty much nothing left of the WAC now. It's just Hawaii plus a bunch of Sun Belt-level schools now. I have no idea why BYU would want to sentence its non-football teams to play in this league.

This independent BYU idea is rather silly. I suspect it's a petulant reaction to Utah receiving the call-up to the big leagues. BYU on its own is a lower-BCS-caliber school, like Utah. But the religion thing (no sports on Sundays) is incompatible with the Pac Ten. The Mountain West had a chance of earning an automatic BCS bid with BYU, TCU and Boise State. Without BYU, that's going to be more difficult. In the end, I don't see BYU actually doing this.
 

Infield Infidel

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Or, BYU could team with the West Coast Conference, made by and large of religious schools.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5474774



Figure there would be worse things than being in am ESPN-affiliated men's basketball conference with Gonzaga and St. Marys. And geographically, BYU might prefer to travel up and down the Pacific Coast -- like Utah in the Pac-12 -- as opposed to being lumped in with schools from Texas and Louisiana, where the LDS numbers aren't near as strong. Certainly a pitch worth making for the WCC, knowing BYU might listen after what happened to the WAC today.
This is really interesting. The WCC is the best non-football B-Ball league west of the Mississippi, clearly better than the WAC. But since it doesn't have football, it can't help BYU with 3 or 4 free football home games a year like the WAC can. BYU has tons of money, but paying out $500,000 or more for 7 home games a year is a lot of money. They need freebies and the WAC can give them home-and-homes with western teams like Hawaii and New Mexico St. Their sched would be

3 - 3 road games v WAC
3 - 3 home games v WAC
1 - Utah home or away
2 - two BCS teams (1 road, 1 home)
3 - paid beatings vs FCS/Sunbelt
12 total

So they would only have to find 5 games a year, only one more than they have now.

Maybe they could get WAC football games and do WCC for everything else. The WAC is desperate right now. with five whatever schools + Hawaii, the WAC seems kind of doomed. No CUSA-West school would go there, and would North Texas leave the relative security of the SunBelt for more bowl opportunities but also a ton more travel. Only other options are FCS schools, but Chem has it right, no full-membership till mid-decade.

As an addition, I think the Mountain West is being impatient here by adding Fresno and Nevada. The MWC would be in good position to pick up Big 12 schools if the Big 12 falls apart.
 

jmanny24

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It's a four-year process to move from the FCS. Since there's currently a four-year moratorium on applications (it expires next year, the earliest a school could join the FBS is the 2015-16 season).
Just want to check CS according to this the moratorium ends prior to 2011-12 which would make Montana eligible in 2014-15.
 

roundegotrip

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Very long, but very good article from the Omaha World-Herald which investigates and explores in detail the events leading up to Nebraska's departure from the Big 12.

To this day, Perlman, Osborne and Delany won't say where they met on May 25.

Perlman will describe it only as "a very remote private location'' far from
both Big Ten country and Nebraska. It's a secret, Perlman said, because
the Big Ten may use it for future business.

They went to considerable lengths to keep the meeting under wraps.

Because Osborne is a well-known figure who tends to attract attention, it was
agreed he and the chancellor would fly separately. Perlman was joined
by Joel Pedersen, the university's general counsel. Few on any of their
staffs knew the reason for their travel.

After staying overnight in a city and eating breakfast separately to preserve their
low profile, Perlman and Osborne received cell calls summoning them to
meet a car outside. They then rode to a rural location about an hour
outside the city.

They were greeted by Delany, Big Ten Deputy Commissioner Brad Traviolia and the conference's legal counsel.

Perlman said Delany reiterated that "this shouldn't be regarded as any more
than sitting down for a chat.'' He was holding similar meetings with
other schools.

Asked last week where NU's bid ranked then,
Delany said it would have been inaccurate to say the school was "not on
the horizon" or "in the lead'' — it was just in the mix.

The next four hours, however, changed that.
link
 

WestMassExpat

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Very long, but very good article from the Omaha World-Herald which investigates and explores in detail the events leading up to Nebraska's departure from the Big 12.



link
Read this today at work and a few things annoyed me.

The World-Herald recently dug deeper into Nebraska's decision to jump to the Big Ten, a landmark shift that in 2011 will end a century of athletic traditions but open a new chapter for the Cornhuskers in one of the nation's most prestigious athletic leagues. The paper's examination included the most extensive interviews to date on the topic with Delany, Perlman and NU Athletic Director Tom Osborne.
The reliance on these three was clear in the article. I know the reporter tried to contact UT president Powers and Big 12 commish Beebe, and I understand people don't want to call back. I do think it sucks that he relies on unattributed indirect quotes/fact-based paragraphs with no attribution.

In mid-January, university leaders from across the country gathered in Atlanta for the NCAA's annual convention.

In a hallway of the Hyatt Regency on Jan. 15, Perlman ran into a good friend — someone he describes only as a well-connected “sports insider.''

“You need to pay attention to conference realignment,'' the friend told Perlman, “or you're going to be left out in the cold.''
So this presumably well-connected source comes forward in January when practically every non-Big 10 BCS league team east of the Rockies is rumored to be going to the Big 10, and that's enough in Perlman's mind to start the courtship process? Even though the Nebraska liked the set-up of the league and it's unequal revenue sharing and ability for individual schools to retain TV rights? The obvious motivation to make the shift is that the Big 10 is better respected academically, is more stable than the Big 12, and arguably has the best brand of college football for the better part of the century -- why not just say this instead of some vague and unattributed rumblings that they'd "be left out in the cold" or the conference offices weren't closers to home? Furthermore, this story isn't Watergate... at least give some contextual information who this anonymous source is.

Not to say I didn't think the article was a good read. Interesting last minute discussions between UNL and UT at the Big 12 meetings; somehow I don't believe Nebraska would've stayed even with and iron-clad pledge from UT but I don't blame Perlman/Nebraska for making the choice they did.
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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Looking back, Delany said, there's a lot of serendipity in how it all came together.

“It wasn't predicted,'' he said. “It just worked.''
There's a lot in this article that rings true. I don't think many people would have figured Nebraska would have interest in leaving the Big XII a year ago. It's just one of those things that the more you think about it, the more it makes sense. We've just had our minds set on Notre Dame for the last 20 years.

Growing up, I spent a lot of time on the Michigan campus. Right next to campus is a diner called The Brown Jug, it's been an institution for decades. They used to have 11 wooden plaques high up on the wall - the ten Big Ten schools, and Notre Dame (this obviously before Penn State joined in 1990).

Notre Dame values its independence more than money. I can respect that. I'm glad Michigan isn't petulant about it and keeps up the rivalry. But I'm very glad Nebraska's in. I don't think conferences work with more than twelve schools, and, after looking at many different criteria, I'm convinced Nebraska is the second-best candidate (behind Notre Dame) within a reasonable geographic area (I don't think Texas would have worked for that reason). I would have taken Pittsburgh over Missouri.

Hopefully, the Big Ten will thrive with twelve members for at least the next 50 years.

Not to say I didn't think the article was a good read. Interesting last minute discussions between UNL and UT at the Big 12 meetings; somehow I don't believe Nebraska would've stayed even with and iron-clad pledge from UT but I don't blame Perlman/Nebraska for making the choice they did.
I agree. What surprised me about the article was that Osborne claimed every single coach at the school wanted to make the switch. This even with so many rivalries with Oklahoma. I'm particularly surprised the baseball coach wasn't raising a stink - baseball is one sport where the Big Ten has faltered significantly the last couple of decades.

But from the academic side, it makes a lot of sense. The research arm of the conference (something you don't find in most conferences at all) is so powerful. This brings added prestige for every professor at Nebraska. So I'm not surprised the Regents voted quickly and unanimously.

So I'm greatly looking forward to 2011. A new and valuable conference rival. A new football coach at Michigan who hopefully has a dictionary that includes the letter D. And a conference title game.
 

Awesome Fossum

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Big East invites Villanova

If you're going to make the leap from FCS to FBS, jumping to a BCS conference is definitely the way to do it. But despite being the reigning champion, Villanova barely draws flies in the CAA and would need a new stadium. Can the program be viable in the Big East?
 

OCST

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Big East invites Villanova

If you're going to make the leap from FCS to FBS, jumping to a BCS conference is definitely the way to do it. But despite being the reigning champion, Villanova barely draws flies in the CAA and would need a new stadium. Can the program be viable in the Big East?
Couldn't it use one of the several stadia available in Philly to meet the requirement?
 

mabrowndog

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Looks like the WAC wants alimony...

WAC sues Nevada & Fresno over departure to Mountain West

WAC commissioner Karl Benson said Tuesday on a conference call that the league filed a complaint last week in Jefferson County District Court in Colorado."The damages the WAC could incur if Fresno State and Nevada left early are very, very significant," Benson said. "That's what has driven this: to protect the assets of the WAC as a corporate entity."

Benson said WAC bylaws state members must inform the conference it is leaving for another league by July 1 or that departing member is obligated to stay through the next two school years.

Nevada and Fresno State announced they had accepted invitations to the MWC on July 18 and both have indicated they would like to leave the WAC and be in their new conference for the 2011 football season.

Benson said he has contacted the leaders of Nevada and Fresno State, seeking assurances that they will remain in the WAC through June 30, 2012. But those assurances have not come, he said.

"I thought the filing of the complaint would initiate some discussion," Benson said.

But Nevada and Fresno State still have not contacted him, Benson said.

The WAC also expects Nevada and Fresno State to pay a $5 million exit fee. Benson said the fee is not mentioned in the lawsuit and is a separate issue.

For those curious about Boise State's omission from this action:

After Broncos announced they would leave, the WAC's other members -- including Nevada and Fresno State -- voted to implement the steep exit fee to protect the conference from further defections.
 

TomRicardo

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Didn't Boise State announce it was leaving in June hence beating the July 1st deadline which the WAC is complaining about?
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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The NCAA might want to step in here, assure the WAC that they won't lose an automatic basketball tournament berth while searching for a seventh member.

As conferences expand to maximize revenue from television networks (more games to sell, including a conference championship), the fallout is replacing those schools that move up.

Either we lose conferences, or the FBS brand is diluted by more schools taking the leap from the FCS. The NCAA needs to decide which is better. It might be time to start enforcing attendance requirements and other guidelines. Ten of the 120 FBS schools failed to draw 15,000 per game last season.
 

berniecarbo1

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Couldn't it use one of the several stadia available in Philly to meet the requirement?

As the article points out, Temple and the Eagles share the Link. Penn plays at Franklin Field which is rich in history but really isn;t a great venue. Their current stadium holds 12,000. They need to be at least 15,000 capacity. They also have a Title IX issue on that they would have to raise the scholarship count up by 22 in both men's and women's sports. The upside is that they would be going into a BCS conference so the $$$ would be there long term. The doen side is that is financially painful as well as emotionally painful (i.e. losses and probably big losses) as the program starts to ramp up. By the time it became a full BE football member it would be 2015. Next year's freshman would be the first BCS class.

If thye could expand the on campus stadium to 20,000 and play an independant schedule, much like UConn did as it moved up, it might be possible. Thekey is to keep the stadium on campus. If they are in a league they can play their 4 conference games on site, schedule a high end at large team for the Linc once a year, and play low end FBS and FCS opponents on site. A good schedule for them if they in fact took this tract would be their 8 other BE opponents plus Delaware, Navy or some other FBS school and probably Temple and a C-USA team like a Memphis, Tulane, East Carolina or the like. That would be a good program and would compliment their athletic program quite nicely.
 

Butch Hobsons elbo chips

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The Villanova Trustees will blow this out of the water for the shortsighted idea that it is.
Villanova should just say NO to upgrading into a FBS program for the Big East. Villanova is a small school that has an insufficient Fan Base, No Stadium for FBS, inferior facilities for a FBS program, no community support for Football and no money to finance this upgrade.
Villanova is not a state university and no one is handing them a stadium. Nova has a moderate endowment for a private Catholic school and is not actively supported by the Alumni as only 18% give annually to the University.

There is no business plan here other than to pretend this is the movie "Field of Dreams" and the fans will magically show up if they think the team on the opponents list is worthy of their appearance in whatever off campus stadium gets selected out of the alternatives.
Villanova has no fan base to speak of and they couldn't even get fans to show up for NCAA Playoff games last year. They haven't had fans support the team in decades. Even when they played against a Heismann trophy winner in the Liberty Bowl, no one showed up in Philadelphia to see the game. No one is Philly cares about the football team so any ESPN intern can tell you that you don't pay for a market that can't be delivered.

If they wasted all that money and they bought out the empty seats just to get through the provisional period and by 2014 or 2015 they could join BIG EAST football, which teams will be gone to the BIG TEN or ACC?? They would have spent all that money to upgrade and the BE Football is crumbling anyways and now Villanova is trying to find a chair long after the music has stopped.

The entire plan pushed by proponents is based on shallow promises of attendance and forthcoming donations which there is no guarantee will ever happen and there is a long history that counters those promises.
The motivation pushed forward by most proponents for the upgrade doesn't even have anything to do with the football team, it is just a doomsday threat that Villanova Basketball will become irrelevant if they don't force through this shortsighted upgrade.
 

Butch Hobsons elbo chips

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If thye could expand the on campus stadium to 20,000 and play an independant schedule, much like UConn did as it moved up, it might be possible. The key is to keep the stadium on campus. If they are in a league they can play their 4 conference games on site, schedule a high end at large team for the Linc once a year, and play low end FBS and FCS opponents on site. A good schedule for them if they in fact took this tract would be their 8 other BE opponents plus Delaware, Navy or some other FBS school and probably Temple and a C-USA team like a Memphis, Tulane, East Carolina or the like. That would be a good program and would compliment their athletic program quite nicely.
Radnor Township hates students, noise and football and won't allow any substantial expansion on campus to the stadium.
 

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Just playing Devil's advocate, but they could play at PPL Park

The offer is a standing offer that's been around a few years, But BHEC is right, this would be a monumentally terrible idea, for the Big East and Nova. Depending on how realignment shakes out, the Big East may either not exist, or might grow, or might be altered considerably. No one knows.

For Nova though, this isn't basketball where you only need to fund 12 schollies. 83 scholarships is a ton for small private school with a tiny fanbase in a pro-town. They are successful at that level and should be content with that.

If this were NAIA, and they could somehow merge football programs with Temple, the TempleNova OwlCats would be a force :rolleyes:
 

Captaincoop

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The NCAA might want to step in here, assure the WAC that they won't lose an automatic basketball tournament berth while searching for a seventh member.

As conferences expand to maximize revenue from television networks (more games to sell, including a conference championship), the fallout is replacing those schools that move up.

Either we lose conferences, or the FBS brand is diluted by more schools taking the leap from the FCS. The NCAA needs to decide which is better. It might be time to start enforcing attendance requirements and other guidelines. Ten of the 120 FBS schools failed to draw 15,000 per game last season.
It's a pretty natural progression, I don't know why anyone would be concerned about non-functional conferences like the depleted WAC going the way of the dodo. If another AQ becomes available in basketball, either the Great West and WAC combine to pick it up, or the Big East finally splits, with the resulting Catholic school/non-football league taking the new AQ.

Or that AQ goes away and we're back to where we were before the WAC and MWC split in 2000.

In any case...whatever.
 

Awesome Fossum

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Villanova is a small school that has an insufficient Fan Base, No Stadium for FBS, inferior facilities for a FBS program, no community support for Football and no money to finance this upgrade.
I've heard rumors that the Big East is willing to heavily subsidize Villanova's transition to 1A. But that doesn't solve the stadium and attendance issues.

Villanova wasn't even able to draw 5,000 for a home playoff game last year. I wouldn't think the jump to the Big East alone would be worth 10,000 bodies, but on the other hand, the basketball team sells out a 20,000 person arena five times a year.
 

mabrowndog

Ask me about total zone...or paint
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Another bit of news that flew under the radar last week:

The football teams from Cal Poly and UC Davis are joining the Big Sky Conference, league commissioner Doug Fullerton said Tuesday.The universities accepted the invitations to join the conference as football-only schools late last week after university presidents approved changes to league rules that require all member schools to take part in the same 14 sports.

Cal Poly and UC Davis are Football Championship Subdivision members that compete in the Great West Conference but participate in the Big West Conference for the majority of their sports.

A timeline for the move has not been set.

"Our obligation and commitment to them is to work them in just as quickly as we can," Fullerton said.

Many of the Big Sky teams have their 2011 schedules nearly complete and Cal Poly and UC Davis must officially withdraw from the Great West, which also includes football teams from North Dakota, South Dakota and Southern Utah. Fullerton said he expects Cal Poly and UC Davis to end up with some games against Big Sky schools next year, a heavy slate of games in 2012 and likely a full schedule by 2013.

Tuesday's moves are the first part of an expansion that could lead to a 12-team Big Sky football conference with two six-team divisions, Fullerton said.
I assume this means neither Montana nor Weber State will move up to FBS (or the WAC) any time soon. Regarding the Big Sky's 12-team plans, the only western FCS schools that make geographical sense are Southern Utah (another Great West member) and San Diego (Pioneer).

Meanwhile, the WAC is just fucked beyond all hope right now. They're on the way to becoming a six-team league spanning six time zones, with no schools closer than 666 miles (Idaho & Utah St), and up to 4,039 miles between campuses (Hawaii & La Tech). I've seen rumors in recent weeks that Houston (from C-USA) and Utah State might round out the Mountain West's 12-team alignment. The former would bring the 4th-largest media market, while the latter would fill the Salt Lake City void.

As it stands after the most recent defections of Nevada and Fresno St, the WAC's four largest remaining markets rank 31st (San Jose), 55th (Honolulu), 202nd (Las Cruces NM) and 296th (Logan UT) by population. La Tech (Ruston LA, population 20k) and Idaho (Moscow ID, population 23k) don't even show up in the federal OMB's 366 US MSAs. Ruston is about a half-hour from Monroe (ranked 229th), where another FBS school already exists.

I can't envision any FCS schools wanting to join this or any other incarnation of the WAC, and I don't see how any of the remaining schools would be deemed good fits for any other mid- or sub-major FCS conferences (i.e. C-USA, Sun Belt). Unless La Tech replaced Houston in C-USA, and the MWC invited the remaining 5 WAC members as part of a 16-team conference, but that's a huge stretch.
 

Butch Hobsons elbo chips

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Just playing Devil's advocate, but they could play at PPL Park
The head of the Philadelphia Union Soccer Club stated he accepted a call from Villanova last week to set up a preliminary meeting for a discussion about PPL Park down in Chester, PA. He was mildly pessimistic about it.
Besides the obvious logistic obstacle of trying to get a non-existent fan base to drive down to Chester, PA (It was the AIDS capitol of the U.S. at one point with all of it's drugs & violent crime.) to see Villanova Football, you have the issue that it is only a 18,500 Soccer field. The head of the Philly Union said Soccer schedule plays the last third of their schedule in the Fall and they FORBID any footbal markings to be on their turf during the season and that is non-negotiable. So unless someone has some evaporating or invisible line marking substance to put on that Soccer field, there won't be any endzone lines or yard lines on the field for possible football games played there.
I know we once did that in Biddy Football and the Big East is basically the same caliber (lol) How cool is that to play football on a totally green field with a couple of those plastic folded yarded marker things on the sidelines and absolutely no lines on the field?
That could add a nice catchy new motto for the Conference. BIG EAST FOOTBALL...we play anywhere!!


...but on the other hand, the basketball team sells out a 20,000 person arena five times a year.
They do extremely well at Wells Fargo (fka Wachovia) Center games but they don't sell all those games out. Many of games draw in the 14k to 17k range which is outstanding but it often depends on Villanova's team that year and obviously Coach Wright has them winning and ranked more consistently now then when the decade started. Georgetown, Notre Dame, Syracuse & Pitt bring the best basketball crowds for those games including some sell-outs. Sometimes WVU & Marquette depending on whether they are ranked that year or not. Notre Dame vs Villanova games have often drawn a bigger ND crowd from that huge Catholic audience surrounding Philadelphia.
Where do the rest of the crowds come from? Well if you can find a Penn State basketball fan anywhere, let me know. You ask most Penn State alumni from Philly to Scranton where they go in the fall and it's heading west to Happy Valley to see JoePa, but when it comes to basketball, they love their Big 5 Basketball..especially Nova. The Wildcats have a solid following among the Catholics as well as just regular college basketball fans in Eastern PA. I can easily scalp my basketball tickets to people in the Lehigh Valley anytime I want.

Despite all the whining about the death of the current Big East, the League is practically walking dead already and that is why the other football members don't care whether this proposition for Nova upgrading football makes sense or not for Villanova community. Even the BE Commisioner admitted publicly that Villanova was NOT the best candidate but they were entitled to get an invitation because of their Big East membership in all other sports.

I've heard rumors that the Big East is willing to heavily subsidize Villanova's transition to 1A.
I've heard reality that any financial scam like that might get several AD's & University Presidents publicly burned at the stake when the 7 State Universities with Big East Football teams start giving their taxpayer dollars to another university..a small private Catholic school. I am sure the Big East Football schools would lend support in scheduling several games thru the "provisional period" to help an upgrading program and there are other corners that can be cut along the way with League support, but they aren't sending an envelope of cash to Villanova to get this done.

This is one of those populist ideas where everyone says...Hey, wouldn't it be great to have Villanova playing Notre Dame every year and then seeing Villanova play in a Bowl game vs some big name football school. Hell yeah, but it's unrealistic and is potentially damaging to the University to chase down such wind mills like Don Quixote.
 

RedOctober3829

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The University of Colorado Board of Regents will meet today in Denver to discuss legal and financial matters related to leaving the Big 12 Conference one year early for the Pac-10.

The regents previously voted unanimously to switch conferences in 2012 and would not need to meet further on that topic unless they needed to make a change to the timing or approve the cost of the move. They are expected to at least discuss both issues at a special meeting at 5 p.m. in Denver. It`s possible the board could vote to make the move a year early.
Link
 

RingoOSU

okie misanthrope
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Jun 2, 2005
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Follow-up, they decided to pay the money and avoid having an 11 team big 12 in 2011-2012.
http://newsok.com/nebraska-and-colorado-to-forfeit-16-million-to-exit-big-12/article/3497407?custom_click=headlines_widget#ixzz10HBePmMr
 

Butch Hobsons elbo chips

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The BIG EAST is exploring the idea of possibly adding TCU for Football.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/colleges/tcu/stories/093010dnspocolltcu.141d1eebc.html
It's not clear whether they would just be a Football member or FULL member if they were added in 2011 or 2012.

And I've said it before, the Villanova idea is a boondoggle that will be rejected. The Trustees should see that as no one has even remotely attempted to put forth any scenario that makes sense for Villanova to upgrade.
The concerted effort to sell out Villanova stadium FAILED miserably in it's 2nd Home game vs city rival PENN with the WORST attendance since the NOVA-PENN series was reignited in 1999. Only 8100 showed up for two ranked FCS teams who are local rivals. The games at Franklin Field vs NOVA have averaged over 17,000 in the same period. So obviously the UNIVERSITY OF PENN is a hell of lot more qualified with a stadium & fanbase to becoming a BIG EAST football member than Villanova ever will be.
Villanova has no stadium, no fans, no community support, no facilities and no money to upgrade. And the more the FBS Upgrade proponents BEG & BEG for more fans to show up this Fall, even less fans bothered to come to the Penn game....pathetic.


Here is an interesting tidbit to keep in mind over the next 90 days as the BIG EAST footbal schools scramble.
The big thing to remember about the Big East is that the football presidents have a 'get out of jail free' card that they can exercise and Big East Football can split with essentially no penalties (no exit fees and the conference members keep their credits). The card expires in 2010 and no one knows whether this card will be extended beyond 2010.
So, at some later point, if the Big East splits, then the basketball schools would reap the $5 million exit fee and basketball credits.
 

BigMike

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Sep 26, 2000
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The BIG EAST is exploring the idea of possibly adding TCU for Football.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/colleges/tcu/stories/093010dnspocolltcu.141d1eebc.html
It's not clear whether they would just be a Football member or FULL member if they were added in 2011 or 2012.

And I've said it before, the Villanova idea is a boondoggle that will be rejected. The Trustees should see that as no one has even remotely attempted to put forth any scenario that makes sense for Villanova to upgrade.
The concerted effort to sell out Villanova stadium FAILED miserably in it's 2nd Home game vs city rival PENN with the WORST attendance since the NOVA-PENN series was reignited in 1999. Only 8100 showed up for two ranked FCS teams who are local rivals. The games at Franklin Field vs NOVA have averaged over 17,000 in the same period. So obviously the UNIVERSITY OF PENN is a hell of lot more qualified with a stadium & fanbase to becoming a BIG EAST football member than Villanova ever will be.
Villanova has no stadium, no fans, no community support, no facilities and no money to upgrade. And the more the FBS Upgrade proponents BEG & BEG for more fans to show up this Fall, even less fans bothered to come to the Penn game....pathetic.


Here is an interesting tidbit to keep in mind over the next 90 days as the BIG EAST footbal schools scramble.

I know it would give them a pretty clear path to an annual BCS bid, but other than that, I can't see any way that TCU going Big East makes any sense for TCU.
 

Awesome Fossum

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It's pretty stunning how poorly Villanova draws, despite being the reigning FCS champion and, up until this week, the #1 team in the sub-division. They play in easily the best FCS conference, and every single out-of-conference game they schedule is a local rivalry, including Temple, who Villanova beat in 2009 and just barely lost to in 2010. I'm honestly shocked that attendance has actually gotten worse.

What else can they do? At some point, does Villanova have to ask themselves if the program is even FCS viable?
 

Infield Infidel

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Hawaii in talks about joining Mountain West

The University of Hawaii is close to joining the Mountain West Conference for football, raising the prospect of leaving the depleted WAC after 32 years.
It's not clear where the rest of Hawaii's athletic programs fit in. Athletic director Jim Donovan said his poll of the school's 18 other teams indicated 16 of them would prefer to play in the Big West.

The Mountain West released a statement Thursday night saying the conference's board of directors "has authorized Commissioner Craig Thompson to begin discussions with the University of Hawaii regarding possible membership in the sport of football only."

No offer has been extended to Hawaii, a source told ESPN.com's Andy Katz.
The WAC announced last week it would add Texas-San Antonio, Texas State and the University of Denver. Denver doesn't have a football team.

Donovan noted these schools send the WAC farther into the middle of the country geographically, away from Hawaii, and this would increase the school's travel expenses. He also said Mountain West schools such as Air Force were schools Hawaii fans could easily see as rivals.
Hawaii was talking about going independent for football and joining the Big West for other sports. Obviously joining the Mountain West for football would be great for UH, with the other sports still going to the Big West works because all of those schools are in California.

The pluses for the Mountain West - Adding another established program; teams that play at Hawaii get a money-making 13th game; NOT taking Hawaii's other sports (saving money on travel); hooking up with the Sheraton Hawaii Bowl.

This could be the death knell for the WAC, since the NCAA's continuity claus requires 6 conference teams to play the two previous seasons to maintain automatic berths in NCAA tourneys. After 2011, only 5 teams will have played together in 2010-2011. Would keeping the conference alive be worth losing tourney bids for 2012 and 2013?
 

bsj

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Fascinating.

The travel is going to be a bitch...but its a win-win for the conference and the school.

I do wonder, though, if Villanova's arrival will mark the official split of the football schools from the hoops onlies...
 

URI

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Fascinating.

The travel is going to be a bitch...but its a win-win for the conference and the school.

I do wonder, though, if Villanova's arrival will mark the official split of the football schools from the hoops onlies...
You know, I've said this before, but there is very little chance of Villanova actually able to make the leap without some rules changes or serious changes in dedication from Nova's fans. I mean, Villanova Stadium only holds 12,500 now, and doesn't come close to selling out. I don't know how they are going to average 15k for a couple of years in that place.
 

Infield Infidel

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edit -- yeah I was completely wrong. TCU is getting full membership

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?w=1a4c7&storyId=5862368&i=TOP&topslot=1


FORT WORTH, Texas -- TCU has accepted a bid for full membership to become the 17th member of the Big East Conference, effective July 1, 2012.

"Having BCS automatic-qualifying status was a priority for our football program and a great reward for the success we've had the last decade," TCU athletic director Chris Del Conte said in a statement.

The conference change allows TCU to play in an automatic BCS-qualifying league beginning in the 2012-13 school year.

"Access got easier, not the road," said Horned Frogs coach Gary Patterson, whose third-ranked Frogs (12-0) wrapped up their second consecutive undefeated regular season and Mountain West title with a 66-17 win at New Mexico on Saturday.

The Mountain West does not have an automatic bid to the BCS and is going through some changes of its own. BYU and Utah are leaving the conference just as Boise State enters.
 

roundegotrip

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Kind of a bizarre choice since you have to think that the Big 12, whatever they may say, is going to be looking to add two teams in the not too distant future.