Conference Realignment Thread

ethangl

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QUOTE (jk333 @ Jun 14 2010, 09:16 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3023811
Question, why wouldn't the Big 12 just add 2 teams to replace NU and CU? Say, TCU and Utah?

I have heard talk that Arkansas is tired of being nobody and would be interested -- if the new TV deal that Beebe has proposed is competitive with the SEC's.
 

Awesome Fossum

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ESPN.com isn't buying it.

QUOTE
The departure of Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the Pac-10 is imminent, four sources within the Big 12 Conference said Monday.

One source said Dan Beebe's last-minute plan to save the conference has "zero" chance to succeed. Another source said it is "very unlikely" to succeed.
 

JMDurron

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QUOTE (ethangl @ Jun 14 2010, 09:34 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3023830
I have heard talk that Arkansas is tired of being nobody and would be interested -- if the new TV deal that Beebe has proposed is competitive with the SEC's.


Where is that TV deal going to come from? The demand just isn't there for the non-Texas Big 12 schools to generate the kind of revenue that is needed for a lucrative TV deal like that. Unless Beebe somehow has that TV deal in hand already, I'd be surprised if this holds.
 

ethangl

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QUOTE (JMDurron @ Jun 14 2010, 09:41 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3023849
Where is that TV deal going to come from? The demand just isn't there for the non-Texas Big 12 schools to generate the kind of revenue that is needed for a lucrative TV deal like that. Unless Beebe somehow has that TV deal in hand already, I'd be surprised if this holds.

Beebe says he can do better. Personally, I think he's full of crap. I think the idea for this is for it to hold together long enough to get the buyouts from the schools that are leaving.
 

RingoOSU

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QUOTE (ethangl @ Jun 14 2010, 09:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3023859
Beebe says he can do better. Personally, I think he's full of crap. I think the idea for this is for it to hold together long enough to get the buyouts from the schools that are leaving.

I think Tech, OU, or OSU should take the Pac 10 up on their offer, and make sure this Texas running its own conference shit never happens.
 

JMDurron

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QUOTE (ethangl @ Jun 14 2010, 09:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3023859
Beebe says he can do better. Personally, I think he's full of crap. I think the idea for this is for it to hold together long enough to get the buyouts from the schools that are leaving.


Even if he does, what is the motivation for the other schools to stay in? If the PAC-10 worth force revenues/distributions to be relatively even, and the new plan for the Big 12 is, essentially, everyone divides up the revenue except Texas, who gets their own network, aren't all of the other candidates better off making sure that the Big 12 dies a quick death? If the status quo is "be Texas' bitch", and Beebe's plan is basically a new version of "be Texas' bitch, but you'll have slightly more money...maybe!", and the PAC-10 still offers the possibility of some additional parity AND more money. why wouldn't the little fish tell Beebe to go screw to ensure that the conference dies, and therefore Texas most likely has to join the PAC-10?

EDIT - Ringo is too fast for me.
 

ethangl

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The other schools' PAC-10 offers are dependent on Texas, guys.

OSU and TT run the risk of being left out in the cold entirely. They're not abandoning ship.
 

RingoOSU

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QUOTE (ethangl @ Jun 14 2010, 10:06 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3023889
The other schools' PAC-10 offers are dependent on Texas, guys.

OSU and TT run the risk of being left out in the cold entirely. They're not abandoning ship.

Except if OU comes to the Pac 10, what's Texas gonna do, refuse to follow? If TAMU to the SEC is enough to kill the deal, then any of the schools who ALREADY met with the Pac 10 taking the offer, they can assure it will make sure Texas accepts if they take them.

Also, the Pac 10 was happy just to get Colorado. I'm sure they're happy to just take OU, and I think OU would rather be in a real conference than in a conference that only exists to pull revenue for Texas.
 

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QUOTE (ethangl @ Jun 14 2010, 11:13 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3023901
Joe Castiglione has already said they'll follow Texas.


Follow Texas didn't say after he got a kick ass offer he would stay and eat Texas' shit. Everything I have read said nothing has changed OU decision to go to the PAC10.
 

ethangl

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QUOTE (TomRicardo @ Jun 14 2010, 10:19 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3023908
Follow Texas didn't say after he got a kick ass offer he would stay and eat Texas' shit. Everything I have read said nothing has changed OU decision to go to the PAC10.

If you have read anything you would know that Castiglione probably wants the Big 12 to stick together more than anybody. Hell, they have a standing offer from the SEC. They haven't taken it -- why do you think that is?
 

wibi

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Texas staying in the Big 12 opens a huge door for Utah to move to the Pac-10 as the major thing holding Utah back was all the teams moving to the Pac-10 from the Big 12.

Everything in the local Salt Lake papers this morning have Utah wanting out of the MWC something fierce.
 

wibi

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Interesting theory floating around Utah this morning (found it in one of the local papers but cant find the link)

If Texas, TT, OU and OSU all leave for the Pac-10
Then the MWC might be folded up into the Big-12 (since the Big-12 would keep their BCS bid until the next cycle)

Not sure if it is true or has any legs but thought I'd put it out there
 

jk333

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QUOTE (ethangl @ Jun 14 2010, 11:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3023916
If you have read anything you would know that Castiglione probably wants the Big 12 to stick together more than anybody. Hell, they have a standing offer from the SEC. They haven't taken it -- why do you think that is?


The Big 12 fits well for Castiglone and the Southern/Southwestern schools. It means a lot less travel and keeping rivalries that are already in place, intact. Plus most of the schools fit together philosophically. Colorado always wanted to be a Pac 10 member.

The Pac-16 would keep some rivalries and the conference would remain somewhat local but it would hurt local southwestern schools and it would increase travel while decreasing each school's freedom. It would be good for money and big time athletics for the Pac-16 schools but at the expense of, for example, TTU, BU, or OSU.

Note: regarding the comments upthread, Oklahoma and Texas are the two most presitigious Big-12 schools. Why would they leave the conference? It'd make sense for a middle size school like OSU to go to the bigger pond. Not OU or Tx but even OSU doesn't want to leave their natural rivalry with OU... thus Texas is still the kingpin.
 

RedOctober3829

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Shit, if they aren't going to the Pac-10 an off the wall idea could be Texas football go independent and stay in the Big 12 for other sports. They could accomplish their goal of making their own TV network and they could make a ton of money scheduling games all over the country. ND-Texas could become a huge rivalry as well.
 

wibi

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QUOTE (RedOctober3829 @ Jun 14 2010, 11:16 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024031
From Friday's Boulder Daily Camera blog..


I doubt CU folks have a real idea of what is happening within their (new) conference at this point. At the time CU was sold on moving to the PAC-10 it probably was sold as a two team move however if Texas and OU are available to pull into the PAC-10 then the conference would be stupid to not make it happen because of what they told CU.
 

Sea Dog

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QUOTE (majorwibi @ Jun 14 2010, 12:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3023966
Interesting theory floating around Utah this morning (found it in one of the local papers but cant find the link)

If Texas, TT, OU and OSU all leave for the Pac-10
Then the MWC might be folded up into the Big-12 (since the Big-12 would keep their BCS bid until the next cycle)

Not sure if it is true or has any legs but thought I'd put it out there

I've definitely seen that reported on by the Lawrence Journal-World and KC Star, so it's out there. Memphis, Louisville and Cincy are also among those rumored to be considered if it came to that.
 

SoxFanInCali

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So this leaves us with a Big 10 that has 12 teams, and a Big 12 that has 10 teams (unless they bring in replacements for Nebraska and Colorado).

The rest of the Big 12 teams really look like Texas' bitches here.
 

canderson

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Texas just raped college football and is getting paid quite nicely for its trouble. As a Texas alumnus I'm stoked.

I bet Beebe targets Arkansas and ND now. Arkansas hates the SEC and has said they would like to get back with Oklahoma and A&M.

If that happens I will name my firstborn after Beebe.
 

RedOctober3829

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QUOTE (canderson @ Jun 14 2010, 07:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024349
Texas just raped college football and is getting paid quite nicely for its trouble. As a Texas alumnus I'm stoked.

I bet Beebe targets Arkansas and ND now. Arkansas hates the SEC and has said they would like to get back with Oklahoma and A&M.

If that happens I will name my firstborn after Beebe.


Utah should be a lock to go to the Pac-10 now to complete the 12-team league. Arkansas is a natural fit in the Big 12 as well.
 

URI

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QUOTE (RedOctober3829 @ Jun 14 2010, 08:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024353
Utah should be a lock to go to the Pac-10 now to complete the 12-team league. Arkansas is a natural fit in the Big 12 as well.


What's the 12th team in the Big XII? TCU?
 

RedOctober3829

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QUOTE (URI @ Jun 14 2010, 08:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024356
What's the 12th team in the Big XII? TCU?

TCU and Arkansas should be the 2 teams the Big 12 should realistically be going for. Notre Dame will not go to the Big 12. If TCU won't do it(which I don't see any reason for them not to) then I target BYU. Boise State would have been the fallback here but they already committed to the MWC.

Keep in mind that the only reason to go to 12 teams is for a title game in football. Adding 2 more teams divides the pie up more and after reading the comments coming out it sounds like each school wants as much money as possible. After all this, I can see the NCAA dropping the 12-team requirement for a conference title game.
 

URI

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It's amazing that in the span of one week, I went from being terrified of the A10 being completely crushed to only worried if moving to a BCS conference would make Jim Christian more expensive when Jim Baron finally leaves.
 

RingoOSU

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I don't understand why Arkansas, who broke up the SWC to get the hell away from Texas's manipulating controlling ways comes back toa big 12 that's just as Texas dominated as the SWC is.
 

ethangl

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QUOTE (RingoOSU @ Jun 14 2010, 07:34 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024374
I don't understand why Arkansas, who broke up the SWC to get the hell away from Texas's manipulating controlling ways comes back toa big 12 that's just as Texas dominated as the SWC is.

They have one outright division title and a conference record below .500 in the last 20 years. Get into the B12N, get a foothold back in TX and recruiting, and they are a conference championship game away from a BCS bowl more often than not. If the money's comparable... why not?
 

TomRicardo

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QUOTE (ethangl @ Jun 14 2010, 08:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024380
They have one outright division title and a conference record below .500 in the last 20 years. Get into the B12N, get a foothold back in TX and recruiting, and they are a conference championship game away from a BCS bowl more often than not. If the money's comparable... why not?


You think they will get more money in the Big Texas instead of the SEC. That is almost as stupid as you even entertaining the possibility that people from ND would even answer a phone call from Beebe.
 

ethangl

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QUOTE (TomRicardo @ Jun 14 2010, 07:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024389
You think they will get more money in the Big Texas instead of the SEC. That is almost as stupid as you even entertaining the possibility that people from ND would even answer a phone call from Beebe.

Again, you need to do some reading. And feel free to quote any post of mine that mentioned Notre Dame.
 
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Arkansas is not going back to the new Little Ten so they can bow down to Tejas and drool enviously at all the money Bevo is getting. The SEC is the top brand in college football. Why would they leave the conference that is the envy of every other conference in the country to go to a crap conference like the Texas Ten that almost disbanded today? Im pretty sure that I speak for at least 51 percent of Razorback Nation when I say that Arkansas is very content to stay in the SEC, which is the best conference in the galaxy.
 

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QUOTE (URI @ Jun 14 2010, 07:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024356
What's the 12th team in the Big XII? TCU?
I don't think they need to go beyond 10, they just need to change the name. Whatever the conference would gain by expanding to allow for a championship game would get subtracted in having to split the pie up +2 more ways. Maybe if they would be able to get Arkansas it might be worth it, but adding TCU or Utah or the like won't hold their weight revenue wise.

As a Texas fan/alum I like having a nine-game round robin conference schedule. This conference is better than the old Southwest Conference was, and from a competition standpoint, it's now way easier for the second-tier teams to sneak into a championship. And for teams like Baylor and Iowa State it's a win/win -- more of a chance (albeit still small) to win the conference championship, plus more revenue.

What I'm really curious about is where Beebe derived his TV revenue projections. Heard unsourced rumors it's likely someone like ESPN came in at the 11th hour and promised to kick in more money to avoid losing Texas et al. to Fox Sports and the Pac-10.
 

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QUOTE (TeddyBallgame'sDirtbagSon @ Jun 14 2010, 08:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024394
Arkansas is not going back to the new Little Ten so they can bow down to Tejas and drool enviously at all the money Bevo is getting. The SEC is the top brand in college football. Why would they leave the conference that is the envy of every other conference in the country to go to a crap conference like the Texas Ten that almost disbanded today? Im pretty sure that I speak for at least 51 percent of Razorback Nation when I say that Arkansas is very content to stay in the SEC, which is the best conference in the galaxy.
Not saying Arkansas should make the switch, but here are counter-reasons against what you're saying:
1.) Similar money as the SEC, according to what Beebe put out today
2.) Way, way easier path to the conference championship
3.) Don't have to put up with the SEC-style way of recruiting
4.) Arkansas has no natural rivals in the SEC
5.) Better academic reputation in the Big 12 -- more AAU members
6.) Much easier to tap into Texas recruits in the Big 12
 

roundegotrip

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This makes me pretty happy. I'm glad Nebraska got out of the Big 12, but I was worried about what would happen to the remaining North teams. Yes, they're all Texas' bitches now more than ever, but at least they all get to stay together and stay in a major conference.

It also makes sense for Texas. They wouldn't commit their television rights to a potential Big 12 network even to keep Nebraska in the conference (that's part of what went down at the Big 12 meetings last week), so why would they give them up to move to the Pac 10 when the Big 12 is still a viable conference, especially if they make two good replacement choices.

It was flattering for them to insinuate that Nebraska was the linchpin holding the Big 12 together, but we all know better than that.
 

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QUOTE (WestMassExpat @ Jun 14 2010, 08:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024397
As a Texas fan/alum I like having a nine-game round robin conference schedule. This conference is better than the old Southwest Conference was, and from a competition standpoint, it's now way easier for the second-tier teams to sneak into a championship. And for teams like Baylor and Iowa State it's a win/win -- more of a chance (albeit still small) to win the conference championship, plus more revenue.


I disagree about lower tier teams having a greater change to win the conference championship now. In the past, you could win the North at 5-3 or even 4-4 and then hope for an upset in the conference championship game. Nebraska was about two seconds away from doing this last year. It's a heck of a lot harder to be the best team in the conference over nine games.

I'm cautiously optimistic about this move. I'm glad Texas isn't in a 16 team conference for the time being. The new conference is probably strong enough that it won't impact Texas' chances of getting to a MNC game. I would still like to see a premium OOC team scheduled each year ala USC, to give the schedule that much more pizazz. I also like the way USC schedules additional bye weeks during the season, so that their season finishes up at the same time as the conferences with championship games.
 

AgentOrange

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QUOTE (roundegotrip @ Jun 14 2010, 08:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024415
It also makes sense for Texas. They wouldn't commit their television rights to a potential Big 12 network even to keep Nebraska in the conference (that's part of what went down at the Big 12 meetings last week), so why would they give them up to move to the Pac 10 when the Big 12 is still a viable conference, especially if they make two good replacement choices.


Nothing can stand in the way of the Longhorn Network dream, whereby fans will be given the right to pay a monthly fee to see televised softball and women's soccer games.
 

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QUOTE (AgentOrange @ Jun 14 2010, 08:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024433
I disagree about lower tier teams having a greater change to win the conference championship now. In the past, you could win the North at 5-3 or even 4-4 and then hope for an upset in the conference championship game. Nebraska was about two seconds away from doing this last year. It's a heck of a lot harder to be the best team in the conference over nine games.
Well, NU will be out of the conference so that's one less power to contend with. Besides that, if you're a north team you don't have to worry about beating Texas or OU potentially twice to win the conference with the second time being in the championship.
 

Hendu's Gait

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QUOTE (WestMassExpat @ Jun 14 2010, 09:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024399
Not saying Arkansas should make the switch, but here are counter-reasons against what you're saying:
1.) Similar money as the SEC, according to what Beebe put out today
2.) Way, way easier path to the conference championship
3.) Don't have to put up with the SEC-style way of recruiting
4.) Arkansas has no natural rivals in the SEC
5.) Better academic reputation in the Big 12 -- more AAU members
6.) Much easier to tap into Texas recruits in the Big 12


Arkansas maintains a strong rivalry with fellow SEC-West LSU Tigers, that is intense not only in football (Golden Boot, every TG weekend), but also in track and basketball. Also, since Houston Nutt has moved to Oxford, that 102 year rivalry has intensified. Since Fayetteville is in the northwestern corner of the state, and Mustain and his Springdale teammates were so exposed, maybe there's an overperception that the rivalries are with Texas and Oklahoma schools.

Furthermore, Arkansas takes its track and field and x-country as serious as any team in the country, which is much bigger in the SEC, and if there's any school that would consider that program when faced with a football/basketball decision it would be then.
 

zeraza

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QUOTE (WestMassExpat @ Jun 14 2010, 06:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024397
As a Texas fan/alum I like having a nine-game round robin conference schedule. This conference is better than the old Southwest Conference was, and from a competition standpoint, it's now way easier for the second-tier teams to sneak into a championship. And for teams like Baylor and Iowa State it's a win/win -- more of a chance (albeit still small) to win the conference championship, plus more revenue.


Not at all. IIRC, the NCAA does not allow for a conference championship game in a conference of < 12 teams. Meaning the Texas vs. Oklahoma game is going to decide the champion most years. If nothing else, it hurts the Baylors and Iowa States even more.

Texas basically became the new USC (minus the cheating). And if UT doesn't schedule a strong enough OOC schedule, they may get shafted come selection time, as USC did (and as much as I hate SC, they did get shafted) even though SC often scheduled big OOC games.

Anywho, I don't think Arkansas is going to go back to the Big 12 after leaving to get out of Texas' shadow in the first place. And some people are reporting that Beebe's numbers (why the hell weren't these around in the first place?) are contingent on there being 10 teams, so they may very well stay at 10.
 

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QUOTE (Hendu's Gait @ Jun 14 2010, 10:45 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024508
Arkansas maintains a strong rivalry with fellow SEC-West LSU Tigers, that is intense not only in football (Golden Boot, every TG weekend), but also in track and basketball. Also, since Houston Nutt has moved to Oxford, that 102 year rivalry has intensified. Since Fayetteville is in the northwestern corner of the state, and Mustain and his Springdale teammates were so exposed, maybe there's an overperception that the rivalries are with Texas and Oklahoma schools.

Furthermore, Arkansas takes its track and field and x-country as serious as any team in the country, which is much bigger in the SEC, and if there's any school that would consider that program when faced with a football/basketball decision it would be then.
Conceded, albeit Arkansas's win % against LSU is 34.5 percent, and the Razorbacks have faced A&M and UT more.
 

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QUOTE (roundegotrip @ Jun 14 2010, 09:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024415
This makes me pretty happy. I'm glad Nebraska got out of the Big 12, but I was worried about what would happen to the remaining North teams. Yes, they're all Texas' bitches now more than ever, but at least they all get to stay together and stay in a major conference.

It also makes sense for Texas. They wouldn't commit their television rights to a potential Big 12 network even to keep Nebraska in the conference (that's part of what went down at the Big 12 meetings last week), so why would they give them up to move to the Pac 10 when the Big 12 is still a viable conference, especially if they make two good replacement choices.

It was flattering for them to insinuate that Nebraska was the linchpin holding the Big 12 together, but we all know better than that.


Because you are talking millions more of televisions. Big 12 simply doesn't have any major market that Texas couldn't have on their own where Pac 12 has Denver, LA, San Francisco, and Seattle.

Big 12 has only two major markets which will follow Texas wherever they go.
 

AgentOrange

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QUOTE (WestMassExpat @ Jun 14 2010, 09:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024475
Well, NU will be out of the conference so that's one less power to contend with. Besides that, if you're a north team you don't have to worry about beating Texas or OU potentially twice to win the conference with the second time being in the championship.


They didn't have to beat Texas or OU twice, they only had to beat them the one time it counted.

Again, it boils down to this: is it more likely that an inferior team has a great day and scores an upset victory in the CCG, or is more likely that one of these lessor programs is better than Texas and OU over the course of nine games?
 

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QUOTE (TomRicardo @ Jun 15 2010, 01:09 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3024543
Because you are talking millions more of televisions. Big 12 simply doesn't have any major market that Texas couldn't have on their own where Pac 12 has Denver, LA, San Francisco, and Seattle.

Big 12 has only two major markets which will follow Texas wherever they go.

But the Pac-10 wouldn't allow Texas to have its own cable sports network, so all those West Coast markets are irrelevant with the Longhorns making $20 million per season -- the same as everyone else.

In the Big 12, Texas benefits from unequal revenue sharing, so it will make somewhere between $20 million and $25 million. Add the Longhorns' new network on top of that, so another $3 million to $5 million. And there will be reduced travel costs across the board with the Big 12.

Personally, I can think of worse things than a conference playing a true round robin in football, or a double round robin in basketball, with a 10-team setup. Teams like KU will likely be guaranteed Texas or Oklahoma at home every season; in the Big 12, it wasn't a guaranteed to get Texas, OU or Nebraska. And in basketball, I love the thought to KU and Texas, or K-State and Baylor, playing a home-and-home series.

Texas might run the conference, but if KU can draw SEC money each season like they say this deal will do, so be it. That $14 million to $17 million per season will help a ton. I just wonder what it means when you comb through the fine print in tiny type at the bottom of the page.