Conference Realignment Thread

RedOctober3829

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UConn president Susan Herbst is aggressively pursuing membership in the ACC to become the 15th or 16th member institution in the conference, according to a source with direct knowledge of UConn's situation.

According to the source, Herbst was having conversations recently but in light of Pittsburgh's and Syracuse's defections from the Big East, the talks have accelerated in the last 48 hours.
Just as I thought.
 

RedOctober3829

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The Pac-12 appears to be working out the final details of a deal that would bring Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech to the conference, sources close to the situation told Hookem.com and the American-Statesman on Sunday morning.

Nothing has been accepted or approved, yet, but the deal would allow the Longhorns to keep the Longhorn Network.

Texas, though, would have to add Pac-12 (soon to be 16) content to the LHN programming.

A high-ranking school administrator at one of the four Big 12 schools said “It’s heating up. We’re trying to move in that direction (of joining the Pac-12).”

When asked about the terms of the agreement, the administrator said, “We can live with it.”
For football, the conference would be aligned into four four-team pods with Texas being joined by Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

Texas would play those schools every year.

How would the overall playing schedule work out for football?

As of right now, the conference is discussing an alignment where teams would play nine conference games. Teams would play every other team in their pod along with two teams from each of the other three pods.

If the Longhorns were in Pod A, they would play the other Pod A teams (Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech) every year. They would also play two teams from Pod B, Pod C and Pod D, bringing the total to nine conference games every year.

It is believed the championship game would be decided by overall conference record, meaning any two teams could play in the championship game on a given year.

According to a high ranking school administrator at one of the four Big 12 schools, the Pac-12 has said it will limit the extra-long trips to one per year for every team.
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/entries/2011/09/18/official_potent.html
 

gopats84

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Well it was fun having big time college football at WVU, but that appears to be coming to an end.
Have to think West Virginia has to appeal to the SEC now that it looks like Texas and all of the ACC are coming off the borad. SEC is the one conference that has to make another move sitting at 13 schools with A&M. WVU could slide nicely into the East division and compete pretty well.
 

grsharky7

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Have to think West Virginia has to appeal to the SEC now that it looks like Texas and all of the ACC are coming off the borad. SEC is the one conference that has to make another move sitting at 13 schools with A&M. WVU could slide nicely into the East division and compete pretty well.
Yeah it would be nice, but I'll believe it when I see it. It came down to WVU and South Carolina in 91 and they took SC. WVU has a bigger profile now then they did in 91. However, if it comes down to Missouri and WVU, I just can't see them taking us. Mizzou offers up a much bigger market.
 

gopats84

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Yeah it would be nice, but I'll believe it when I see it. It came down to WVU and South Carolina in 91 and they took SC. WVU has a bigger profile now then they did in 91. However, if it comes down to Missouri and WVU, I just can't see them taking us. Mizzou offers up a much bigger market.
I could see both WVU and Missouri being targets for the SEC if they could find another school to get to 16. The problem is nothing jumps out as a good fit for a 16th. South Florida? Louisville? TCU?
 

WestMassExpat

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The biggest thing that scares me out of 16-team Pac 12 with a pod system described above is the cluster trying to get into the championship game. In a 12 team league we saw some controversies. With 16 contenders, it seems like the format tempts controversy every other year or so. And it's not like the pods will be equal. Imagine a Texas/OU in going 11-1 getting shut out of the championship by an undefeated in conference play Washington or Utah with no head-to-head.
 

grsharky7

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I could see both WVU and Missouri being targets for the SEC if they could find another school to get to 16. The problem is nothing jumps out as a good fit for a 16th. South Florida? Louisville? TCU?
Yeah I could see that, but I won't get my hopes up. Oliver Luck released a statement earlier and it was very generic. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, but I'm worried.

**Edit: Word coming that WVU has applied to the SEC, we'll have to see. This is coming from a guy who I trust, said its a done deal. I'll wait and see though.
 

Clears Cleaver

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So, what I have heard (and recently read), is that the ACC went after Pitt and Syracuse becasue they were the two logical targets of the Big10 if the Big10 did not get Texas and/or ND. Which apparently they will not, so Swoffard decided to move quickly taking the two BE teams most attractive to the Big 10. That then puts the pressure on Texas/ND to make their move if any with an opening in a 16-team ACC available. If they said no, which apparently they will (Texas to Pac12 and ND independent), then the ACC will move on UConn/Rutgers. It has been UConn all along who were not willing tp move. The ACC wanted all four teams and had been talking to all four for the past few weeks. UConn's opposition came from Calhoun, who perhaps did not want to blow up the conferecne with Gavitt on his deathbed, but with caveat that they knew it was inevitable. Purpotedly, Duke, UNC and BC were the three prgrams pushing hardest for Uconn as the fourth school, with BC realziing that it makes sense to have the programs play each year.

All that being said, it is not done obviously and there is a chance that WVU, Uconn and/or Rutgers will get screwed. Louisville, USF (#18 ranked football team) and Cincy are also waiting for an invite somewhere.

I will say that if it wasn't for Lew PErkins for pushing UConn to Div1 and Jim Calhoun for rasing the profile of uconn athletics and the whole school, which led to a $2B investment in the university by the state and a massive uptake in its academic standards, they would be dead today instead of having a pulse. Uconn was just ranked #20 in public universities by US News...when Calhoun came on they were in the 50s. And its not like the state of CT has thrived over the past 20 years. If any state employee ahs earned his pay over the past 20 years, it is him.

As a UConn fan, I feel sad that the Big east basketball conference is going extinct. I grew up on it, watched uconn raise from a nothing program to one of the four best programs in the country playing in the best postseason toruney of them all. At this point I hope Uconn ends up in the ACC so they can still play Syracuse and Pitt and continue to school Duke in the biggest games (and maybe figure out a way to beat UNC... :-( ). And I would love to see Uconn play BC every year in football. Except hopefully Coach Blue will retire tomorrow and take his OC and DC with him so that a real Division 1 staff can teach these kids. Right now, I am thinking a BC-UConn football game might end up 2-0.
 

DukeSox

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It has been UConn all along who were not willing tp move. The ACC wanted all four teams and had been talking to all four for the past few weeks. UConn's opposition came from Calhoun, who perhaps did not want to blow up the conferecne with Gavitt on his deathbed, but with caveat that they knew it was inevitable. Purpotedly, Duke, UNC and BC were the three prgrams pushing hardest for Uconn as the fourth school, with BC realziing that it makes sense to have the programs play each year.
This is all very surprising to me.

I will say that if it wasn't for Lew PErkins for pushing UConn to Div1 and Jim Calhoun for rasing the profile of uconn athletics and the whole school, which led to a $2B investment in the university by the state and a massive uptake in its academic standards, they would be dead today instead of having a pulse. Uconn was just ranked #20 in public universities by US News...when Calhoun came on they were in the 50s. And its not like the state of CT has thrived over the past 20 years. If any state employee ahs earned his pay over the past 20 years, it is him.

As a UConn fan, I feel sad that the Big east basketball conference is going extinct. I grew up on it, watched uconn raise from a nothing program to one of the four best programs in the country playing in the best postseason toruney of them all. At this point I hope Uconn ends up in the ACC so they can still play Syracuse and Pitt and continue to school Duke in the biggest games (and maybe figure out a way to beat UNC... :-( ). And I would love to see Uconn play BC every year in football. Except hopefully Coach Blue will retire tomorrow and take his OC and DC with him so that a real Division 1 staff can teach these kids. Right now, I am thinking a BC-UConn football game might end up 2-0.
I agree completely. It'll all be okay as long as we have Boeheim/Calhoun matchups.
 

kenneycb

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I will say that if it wasn't for Lew PErkins for pushing UConn to Div1 and Jim Calhoun for rasing the profile of uconn athletics and the whole school, which led to a $2B investment in the university by the state and a massive uptake in its academic standards, they would be dead today instead of having a pulse. Uconn was just ranked #20 in public universities by US News...when Calhoun came on they were in the 50s. And its not like the state of CT has thrived over the past 20 years. If any state employee ahs earned his pay over the past 20 years, it is him.
Just ask this reporter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xokthY5zuPU
 

DukeSox

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Ha, sorry. If UCONN joins the ACC will be a ridiculous bball conference. So will the others, though, I suppose.

I'd rather not see them join, for a number of reasons, but it is what it is.
 

Captaincoop

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Texas to the Pac- whatever really would save UConn's bacon. I'll be glad to see the old Big East essentially live on within the ACC. Now bring on MSG in March - the only thing that has been missing with the ACC move for BC.
 

RedSoxFan

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Yeah I could see that, but I won't get my hopes up. Oliver Luck released a statement earlier and it was very generic. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, but I'm worried.

**Edit: Word coming that WVU has applied to the SEC, we'll have to see. This is coming from a guy who I trust, said its a done deal. I'll wait and see though.
SBNation reporting on this as well. Monday could prove to be a very interesting day.
 

grsharky7

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SBNation reporting on this as well. Monday could prove to be a very interesting day.
Yeah. I saw Dunlaps tweet a while back today. The info I was hearing was coming from our head football coach here at school. He is a WVU alum and has some good connections to the football program. He texted me "SEC Bound. Paperwork in. Would've been done two weeks ago but Baylor was holding up." So we'll see, but he always seems to know the interworkings of the the WVU program.
 

Dehere

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Yeah. I saw Dunlaps tweet a while back today. The info I was hearing was coming from our head football coach here at school. He is a WVU alum and has some good connections to the football program. He texted me "SEC Bound. Paperwork in. Would've been done two weeks ago but Baylor was holding up." So we'll see, but he always seems to know the interworkings of the the WVU program.
God, if this is true what happens to my alma mater, Mizzou? No disrespect to WVU but I really thought that if the SEC decided to go to 14 they'd land in Columbia, MO. Somehow a school that was once among the front-runners to join the Big Ten is going to end up the odd man out in the biggest realignment of all time, at least for the short term.

If it comes out that Mizzou missed out on the SEC because they wanted to maintain their alignment with Kansas I'm going to fly out there and burn the whole campus down.

 

gopats84

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God, if this is true what happens to my alma mater, Mizzou? No disrespect to WVU but I really thought that if the SEC decided to go to 14 they'd land in Columbia, MO. Somehow a school that was once among the front-runners to join the Big Ten is going to end up the odd man out in the biggest realignment of all time, at least for the short term.

If it comes out that Mizzou missed out on the SEC because they wanted to maintain their alignment with Kansas I'm going to fly out there and burn the whole campus down.
I think Mizzou is still in pretty decent shape. They would be a logical choice for the SEC if they can find another school to go with Missouri to get to 16. And they are probably the most appealing choice on the table for the Big Ten, a conference that seemingly has to make a move to get to at least 14 to keep up with the other emerging super conferences.
 

grsharky7

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God, if this is true what happens to my alma mater, Mizzou? No disrespect to WVU but I really thought that if the SEC decided to go to 14 they'd land in Columbia, MO. Somehow a school that was once among the front-runners to join the Big Ten is going to end up the odd man out in the biggest realignment of all time, at least for the short term.

If it comes out that Mizzou missed out on the SEC because they wanted to maintain their alignment with Kansas I'm going to fly out there and burn the whole campus down.
None taken. I still think Mizzou will be in the SEC. I've heard rumblings that they rebuffed the SEC and the powers that be weren't happy with them. This was from last yr when Mizzou wanted into the B10. So who knows now. However, I think Mizzou will be ok, I cant see a school with that profile being left behind.
 

Royal Reader

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So if all that goes down (WVU->SEC, UT, TT->PAC) how likely is some kind of short-term patchjob BE/BXII merger? With the BE Basketball schools splitting off?

Mizzou
Kansas
Iowa State
K-State
Baylor
TCU
Cincy
Louisville
USF
UConn
Rutgers
_________________________________

An aspect of this that hasn't necessarily been given much airtime is that the SEC looks kinda screwed in finding anyone to go to 16. Certainly, pretty much all the Eastern schools which are attractive to the SEC are ACC rather than BE, and a strengthened ACC would keep 'em there. So Mizzou, sure, but who do they take with them? All the options are either in existing SEC states (Louisville) lacking in name value (most of the remaining BE) or both of the above (USF). Kansas is probably the best option. A long way away from the SEC heartlands, but would be contiguous if Mizzou joined. (Though that leaves the question of 'Where the hell does the B1G get its sixteen?' Logical ACC grabs would be Rutgers and UConn. B1G takes ND if they can, but then they'd probably have to settle for Iowa State- Cincy has all the same problems ISU has, but lesser academics, Louisville would probably be the remaining option since they at least expand the footprint into another state, but it's not a great school, and doesn't have a big fanbase or football tradition).

Auburn to the East would have to happen, even if that meant losing the annual Bama-Tenn game. The East is still stronger, but I suppose it's possible Arky could become the team they've thought they were for the last decade, or A&M could make use of the combination of the Texas recruiting bed and 'Hey, we're in the SEC.'

Bama
LSU
aTm
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Miss State
Kansas
Mizzou

Florida
Georgia
Tennessee
Auburn
WVU
Kentucky
Vandy
South Carolina
 

Clears Cleaver

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Texas to the Pac- whatever really would save UConn's bacon. I'll be glad to see the old Big East essentially live on within the ACC. Now bring on MSG in March - the only thing that has been missing with the ACC move for BC.
yes, it comes down to Texas and it appears Texas is going West. And the SEC still has to go to 14 (WVU is rumored, but if 16 then is it Mizzou and FSU/VaTEch?) Who knows, but tonight and tomorrow should be interesting. Supposedly the big East is reaching out to the remaining Big 12 schools and Boise and...Hawaii. RU is running simulataneously talks with the B10 and ACC. Remember, if there are not a majority of schools who play FBS football eligible for the playoff, or BCS or whatever the new system is, they run the risk of lawsuits and congressional intervention. the 4 superconferences of 16 are not enough.

quick question: do you think the BC sports programs are in better shape today in the ACC than they were their last year in the Big East? think the fan support is better? do you think the school academics have improved? I have no idea on the latter (BC is ranked 31 nationally now and was 31 last year) but I have a good guess on the former three. I fear that for all these teams moving, no one really gets better off, rivalries are ruined but they reduce the risk of losing out on a lot of money that will help the university. in a time when endownments are losing $$, giving is down to flat, seeing an increase in revenue from television sports, you have to grab your share. Sad but true.
 

8slim

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Why does the B10 and SEC *have* to go to 16. Makes sense for the Pac-12, if you can add Texas & Oklahoma you do it, huge value there. The ACC had to expand so they can reopen their TV deal and squeeze some more revenue out to compete with the ther 3 major conferences and keep schools from defecting. But the SEC and B10 are flush with cash and don't need to add anyone unless their is significant upside.

Obviously the B10 adds Notre Dame if that becomes an option, but Mizzou, Kansas etc? Why? Same for the SEC, they need a 14th for schedule sanity, and I really hope its WVU because that's the one leftover Big East school I really feel for. But there's no need to get to 16 unless its a big fish that can add revenue.
 

Clears Cleaver

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An aspect of this that hasn't necessarily been given much airtime is that the SEC looks kinda screwed in finding anyone to go to 16. Certainly, pretty much all the Eastern schools which are attractive to the SEC are ACC rather than BE, and a strengthened ACC would keep 'em there.
you are kidding I hope. Any SEC target in the ACC or Big12 would immediately jump. Those schools are FSU, VaTech, Clemson, Mizzou. So if wVU is school 14 (applicaiton is in supposedly, who knows), the other two would come from those four schools. Mizzou most likely, then VaTech, then FSU, then Clemson IMO
 

Clears Cleaver

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Why does the B10 and SEC *have* to go to 16. Makes sense for the Pac-12, if you can add Texas & Oklahoma you do it, huge value there. The ACC had to expand so they can reopen their TV deal and squeeze some more revenue out to compete with the ther 3 major conferences and keep schools from defecting. But the SEC and B10 are flush with cash and don't need to add anyone unless their is significant upside.

Obviously the B10 adds Notre Dame if that becomes an option, but Mizzou, Kansas etc? Why? Same for the SEC, they need a 14th for schedule sanity, and I really hope its WVU because that's the one leftover Big East school I really feel for. But there's no need to get to 16 unless its a big fish that can add revenue.
I do not think the Big10 has to or wants to go to 16. Will they? no clue. SEC wants to, I think, as total world domination of football has long been the goal. Adding wVU and VaTech/FSU goes a long way to that
 

berniecarbo1

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quick question: do you think the BC sports programs are in better shape today in the ACC than they were their last year in the Big East? think the fan support is better? do you think the school academics have improved? I have no idea on the latter (BC is ranked 31 nationally now and was 31 last year) but I have a good guess on the former three. I fear that for all these teams moving, no one really gets better off, rivalries are ruined but they reduce the risk of losing out on a lot of money that will help the university. in a time when endownments are losing $$, giving is down to flat, seeing an increase in revenue from television sports, you have to grab your share. Sad but true.
Academically it is much better and much more competitive. The major men's programs have perhaps regresed a bit. The women's programs have actually gotten better. I wouldn't put it all on the ACC. BC was like the thumb on a hand. It is attached solely to make the thing functional. No natural rivals, student bodies, for the most part, have little in common with other ACC schools. I would suggest that since they were the only northern school they didn't get a lot of the questionable calls either.

But BC has their own internal problems with very poor marketing, weak non conference scheduling, bad coaching hires....all of that has contributed to BC's downfall. If they were still in the BE, I think they wouldn't be much better than they are now. BC has 2 regional rivals, UConn and Syracuse. They walked away from those natural rivalries years ago and I think the fan base has reacted a bit towards it. No one cares about BC-Ga Tech any more than anyone cares about UConn-NC State or UConn-USF. But both schools get a big buzz when it is BC-UConn football or BC/UConn-Syracuse football or basketball.

If BC plays UConn in football at Gillette every year it can't help but make the rivalry blossom. But I have said this from Day 1, if BC and UConn are in the same conference, UConn will dominate the series in the long run.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Academically it is much better and much more competitive. The major men's programs have perhaps regresed a bit. The women's programs have actually gotten better. I wouldn't put it all on the ACC. BC was like the thumb on a hand. It is attached solely to make the thing functional. No natural rivals, student bodies, for the most part, have little in common with other ACC schools. I would suggest that since they were the only northern school they didn't get a lot of the questionable calls either.

But BC has their own internal problems with very poor marketing, weak non conference scheduling, bad coaching hires....all of that has contributed to BC's downfall. If they were still in the BE, I think they wouldn't be much better than they are now. BC has 2 regional rivals, UConn and Syracuse. They walked away from those natural rivalries years ago and I think the fan base has reacted a bit towards it. No one cares about BC-Ga Tech any more than anyone cares about UConn-NC State or UConn-USF. But both schools get a big buzz when it is BC-UConn football or BC/UConn-Syracuse football or basketball.

If BC plays UConn in football at Gillette every year it can't help but make the rivalry blossom. But I have said this from Day 1, if BC and UConn are in the same conference, UConn will dominate the series in the long run.
thanks. Its never black and white. But moving to the ACC clearly hasn't been a bad thing for the school but maybe perhaps for the fans of the programs. Interesting, I'm sure any school would take that trade

Just read a quote from Coach K suggesting the ACC would benefit from taking two other east coast schools with rioch hoops tradition. I'm guessing he meant Rutgers and USF
 

gopats84

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you are kidding I hope. Any SEC target in the ACC or Big12 would immediately jump. Those schools are FSU, VaTech, Clemson, Mizzou. So if wVU is school 14 (applicaiton is in supposedly, who knows), the other two would come from those four schools. Mizzou most likely, then VaTech, then FSU, then Clemson IMO
As crazy as this entire thing has been, I wouldn't bet against anything happening, but you have to think that any ACC school jumping ship is less likely than it was a couple of days ago. Even if their landing target was the SEC. With all 12 schools voting to raise the buyout to $20 million and adding two more schools with a possibility of two more on the way to get to the magic number of 16. Unless it's some pretty bold posturing, seems to me nobody in the ACC is going anywhere.

The big thing that stands out to me is for the past few weeks, ever since Texas A&M made its move, the one conference that HAD to make a move was the SEC. I think everyone knew they weren't standing pat at 13. That was the time for an ACC school, if one was seriously interested, to make its move to the SEC before the whole buyout increase and ACC expansion.
 

8slim

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you are kidding I hope. Any SEC target in the ACC or Big12 would immediately jump. Those schools are FSU, VaTech, Clemson, Mizzou. So if wVU is school 14 (applicaiton is in supposedly, who knows), the other two would come from those four schools. Mizzou most likely, then VaTech, then FSU, then Clemson IMO
Well, the ACC schools agreed to a $20 million exit fee last week. I'd never say never, but if 3 or 4 ACC programs had ambitions to join the SEC they have a funny way of showing it.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Well, the ACC schools agreed to a $20 million exit fee last week. I'd never say never, but if 3 or 4 ACC programs had ambitions to join the SEC they have a funny way of showing it.
the old exit fees were 12-15M, now $20M. That is one year of $$ earned in the SEC over the ACC. not a big deal
 

BigMike

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you are kidding I hope. Any SEC target in the ACC or Big12 would immediately jump. Those schools are FSU, VaTech, Clemson, Mizzou. So if wVU is school 14 (applicaiton is in supposedly, who knows), the other two would come from those four schools. Mizzou most likely, then VaTech, then FSU, then Clemson IMO
I don't think there is any chance VT goes to the SEC. The Virginia legislature moved heaven and earth to get them into the ACC with UVA.

And honestly I think VT would be NUTS to go. They can be a pretty big fish in the ACC, in the SEC they'd be lucky to be anything more than Miss St.

Clemson would probably go if they could, and posibly FSU; although I think it would be a mistake for FSU as well

If the ACC can't get ND or Texas, I would sit still at 14. There really is no one else out there who increases the value of the conference
 

JimD

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The BE defections this weekend to the ACC felt like the sports equivalent of the Berlin Wall falling - I can't believe how fast all this happened compared to the drawn-out process earlier in the decade.
 

8slim

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the old exit fees were 12-15M, now $20M. That is one year of $$ earned in the SEC over the ACC. not a big deal
That's easy to say, but we're talking about state schools in awful economic times. The only schools that would be invited/go are Clemson & FSU (I agree with BigMike, no wat the VA legislature lets VaTech go), and comments from the FSU president don't lead me to believe they're going.

I'm not saying never at all, this is a crazy situation. But personally I think the SEC adds WVU and is done with it.
 

Captaincoop

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What does WVU bring to the table for a conference? No media market, lousy school, history of questionable recruiting, etc.

They're a good fit for the SEC, I guess.

That's another interesting result of this shuffle - all the shadiest programs with no concern for academics or compliance are pretty much limited to one major conference now. Could make the NCAA governance process interesting now that the Big East and Big XII won't be around to carry water for the SEC anymore.
 

Butch Hobsons elbo chips

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This kills TCU to the BE which is a positive result for basketball among the break-up.
Where is the landing place for Louisville and Cincinati? Big Ten?

I've always believed the 8 BIG EAST football schools were going in another direction anyways and thank god this should stop the madness of asking Villanova to throw large sums of money down the drain to upgrade football.

That leaves a basketball first conference of The NEW BIG EAST...probably 10-12 teams. I think the first 10 are easy with the 8 Catholic schools adding 2 like-minded institutions. Dayton/Xavier are #1 and #2 in Basketball revenue for all Catholic colleges. They own their arenas which they regularly sell-out as two of the Top 40 attendence programs among the 330+ that play Division I basketball.

Georgetown
Providence
Seton Hall
St Johns
Villanova

DePaul
Marquette
Notre Dame
++ Dayton
++ Xavier


After that, the Conference needs to look at possible public schools who are left out of the BCS football situation who can add to the basketball profile or have the ability ($$$ + facilities) to compete and prosper long term.

+++Memphis
Memphis remains the biggest "Basketball-first" school who is desperate to play in a better Basketball Conference but lousy football has kept them out of the current Big East. They can park the dead carcas of their football team in Conf USA, MAC or Sunbelt as no one much cares where they continue to lose their games. Their basketball program has strong support and tremendous value to a non-football conference. They would jump at a chance to play Georgetown, Villanova, ND, Marquette, St Johns, Xavier faster than a FED-EX overnight package.


That's 11 basketball-first schools and then they need to find a 12th school closer to the East Coast...preferably another Public School who has the facilities to compete long term at a high level.

?? UMASS might be a consideration with a solid Academic base but no one shows up at their basketball games. 3300 avg attendence is pathetic. They have good facilities as a State subsidized institution but you got have some interest from your own fans.

?? Old Dominion who I like as a possibility based on the huge investment they have made across the board in their athletic facilities and they now have their OWN on-campus Basketball facilities (both a dedicated practice building and an Arena) that rivals any of those remaining Big East programs above. They continue to lead the CAA in attendence in recent years and although the Tidewater region is not the biggest market, it is seperate from the DC/northern VA market that Georgetown occupies. Most people know about their women's basketball team's great success through history but ODU has done well in several non-revenue sports over the years.

There is really no reason to go bigger than 12 teams because I am sure the 6 eastern teams want to play each other Home & Away and then play the further west teams only once (and vice-versa) which gives them 16 Conference games and allows for 2 more OOC games than the current cumbersome Big East schedule. Extra OOC games for these BIG EAST Catholic schools that may help them reach out for at least one old rivalry game each season like Gtown-Syracuse, Nova-Pitt, Seton Hall-Rutgers, St Johns-UConn, etc.

Again, I am going under the assumption that all 8 BIG EAST football programs find a landing place but I don't know that is going to happen until the music stops and the chairs are filled. I have been saying for a long time that the current BIG EAST was unsustainable because of it's ridiculous size and the total mismatch of objectives by the football & basketball schools not to mention that Notre Dame was just a thumb in the eye of Big East Football.

As a Villanova fan, I miss the old Dave Gavitt BIG EAST that used to exist but once the carpetbaggers joined in 2005, it was never the same and when you are adding schools like TCU and are trying to push a small school like Villanova into FBS football who has no facilities, no football fans and no money to afford the upgrade, it became just one stupid idea after another. :angry:

RIP Dave Gavitt
RIP old Big East :(


Life moves on...
From out of the ashes rises the phoenix that is the "new" BIG EAST CONFERENCE where "Basketball first" schools move ahead into the future. :)
 

Sea Dog

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Jon Wilner from the San Jose Mercury with some interesting tweets tonight ...

Source: Pac-12 and Texas "nowhere near agreement." Numerous hurdles ahead.
Source: Texas proposed placing its Olympic sports in ACC, not football team.
Source: Pac-12 has Missouri on its radar.

... The Mizzou tweet, is that perhaps a sign that KU and Mizzou could round out the Pac-16, going with the thought that the conference wants to pair like/rival schools for regional networks? Is that a sign Texas Tech would be out if the Longhorns don't go west?
 

DLew On Roids

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I can't see the Big East going after small basketball fish like UMass or ODU when Temple is out there. It's a solid fit both culturally and athletically.
 

grsharky7

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What does WVU bring to the table for a conference? No media market, lousy school, history of questionable recruiting, etc.

They're a good fit for the SEC, I guess.

That's another interesting result of this shuffle - all the shadiest programs with no concern for academics or compliance are pretty much limited to one major conference now. Could make the NCAA governance process interesting now that the Big East and Big XII won't be around to carry water for the SEC anymore.
They bring on field results, which is more than some of these schools can claim. Yes it is a small state as far as population goes, however they still have a market in western PA and Maryland as well. Never heard about the questionable recruiting before. Can't be to lousy of a school when they have over 20 Rhodes Scholars.
 

mauf

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I can't find who wrote it, but I would assume that the teams now in the ACC have played their hand and are looking to improve the ACC and not jump ship. i.e. UMD not going B10, and FSU/Miami not going SEC.
This seems to be the conventional wisdom here. Why? An expanded ACC still isn't going to hold a candle money-wise to the SEC or the Big Ten.

The Pitt/Syr move seems more defensive than offensive to me -- it probably wasn't the ACC's first expansion choice, but it ensures they'll be left standing when the dust settles.

8slim -- I don't think the $20mm exit fee is going to keep anyone from making the moves they need to make. The bad economy probably strengthens the hand of the college presidents -- no one can afford to take the major financial hit associated with losing big-time college football, so arguments based on tradition, equity, or other non-financial considerations will fall on deaf ears to an even greater extent than usual.
 

Royal Reader

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you are kidding I hope. Any SEC target in the ACC or Big12 would immediately jump. Those schools are FSU, VaTech, Clemson, Mizzou. So if wVU is school 14 (applicaiton is in supposedly, who knows), the other two would come from those four schools. Mizzou most likely, then VaTech, then FSU, then Clemson IMO
Big 12, obviously. As I said, Mizzou makes sense for 15. But Clemson, like I've said multiple times, is NOT an SEC target. South Carolina wouldn't stand for it, and SC, Florida, and Georgia have a pact that all three would vote against any attempt to include FSU, Clemson, or GT. Not to mention that SC is too small a state to be worth doubling down on. FSU would be a good addition, but the veto issue is still there. That leaves VTech, but would they jump from a superconference where they are a top-3 football program to one where they're mid-card, pay the exit fee, and convince the powers that be in VA to let them split from the Cavs?
 

JMDurron

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They bring on field results, which is more than some of these schools can claim. Yes it is a small state as far as population goes, however they still have a market in western PA and Maryland as well. Never heard about the questionable recruiting before. Can't be to lousy of a school when they have over 20 Rhodes Scholars.
This was an unfortunate place and time for a typo.

Big 12, obviously. As I said, Mizzou makes sense for 15. But Clemson, like I've said multiple times, is NOT an SEC target. South Carolina wouldn't stand for it, and SC, Florida, and Georgia have a pact that all three would vote against any attempt to include FSU, Clemson, or GT. Not to mention that SC is too small a state to be worth doubling down on. FSU would be a good addition, but the veto issue is still there. That leaves VTech, but would they jump from a superconference where they are a top-3 football program to one where they're mid-card, pay the exit fee, and convince the powers that be in VA to let them split from the Cavs?
The bolded is what makes things complicated. The SEC can get to 14 easily enough with Texas A&M and WVU (not a huge fan of that add, no offense to grsharky, although I might find it hilarious that the primary school of a state that formed to stay with the Union in the Civil War would be joining the SEC), but where does the 16th team come from if Missouri is the 15th target? WVU is somewhat geographically isolated relative to the other SEC schools, so you would almost need a nearby rival from VA to give them a logical in-conference rival. Is the VA legislature really that much of a hurdle, or like in Texas, has that previous resistance been overcome by events at this point? There are no attractive targets left to the West (after Missouri) if Texas and Oklahoma both go to the PAC-12, Texas Tech is basically a useless add in my mind.
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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This was an unfortunate place and time for a typo.



The bolded is what makes things complicated. The SEC can get to 14 easily enough with Texas A&M and WVU (not a huge fan of that add, no offense to grsharky, although I might find it hilarious that the primary school of a state that formed to stay with the Union in the Civil War would be joining the SEC), but where does the 16th team come from if Missouri is the 15th target? WVU is somewhat geographically isolated relative to the other SEC schools, so you would almost need a nearby rival from VA to give them a logical in-conference rival. Is the VA legislature really that much of a hurdle, or like in Texas, has that previous resistance been overcome by events at this point? There are no attractive targets left to the West (after Missouri) if Texas and Oklahoma both go to the PAC-12, Texas Tech is basically a useless add in my mind.
If we're going to play the 16 game with the SEC, might as well pair Missouri with Kansas. I think the SEC would go heavily after Virginia Tech if the Hokies expressed interest, though. Seems weird that the ACC would value clusters within states (North Carolina, Virginia) but the SEC would go to great lengths to avoid them (despite the great rivalry Auburn and Alabama have produced). West Virginia is a decent add for the SEC, because the SEC pays no attention to academics. That matters to the other major conferences, though. Rhodes scholars aside, West Virginia is one of the weakest academic schools amongst the major conferences. At least according to every ratings system out there.

At least half of what we hear (maybe 90%) is pure bunk.

The Big Ten probably isn't interested in anything unless it involves Notre Dame, and maybe Texas. I'm a little surprised the ACC took Syracuse over Rutgers.

If this continues, both the Big East and the Big XII will have to combine in such a way that the current Big East basketball-onlies can still have a strong basketball conference. But I don't see how they can offer football. That means Louisville and Cincinnati will have to join Iowa State, Kansas State, TCU, and probably Baylor and South Florida. Still not enough, so maybe Houston gets the call-up (Tulane and Tulsa have potential, heck, any CUSA school could if given more resources). This gives you 16 in the ACC, SEC and Pac-16, and 12 in the Big Ten, 8-10 in the Big Hybrid and one Notre Dame on the side.
 

BigMike

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This was an unfortunate place and time for a typo.



The bolded is what makes things complicated. The SEC can get to 14 easily enough with Texas A&M and WVU (not a huge fan of that add, no offense to grsharky, although I might find it hilarious that the primary school of a state that formed to stay with the Union in the Civil War would be joining the SEC), but where does the 16th team come from if Missouri is the 15th target? WVU is somewhat geographically isolated relative to the other SEC schools, so you would almost need a nearby rival from VA to give them a logical in-conference rival. Is the VA legislature really that much of a hurdle, or like in Texas, has that previous resistance been overcome by events at this point? There are no attractive targets left to the West (after Missouri) if Texas and Oklahoma both go to the PAC-12, Texas Tech is basically a useless add in my mind.
I just don't think it makes sense for VT. The legislature is strong, but it isn't the only issue. They are a big fish in the ACC, and that may even be tough to keep up when Beamer goes. In the SEC they would be a very small fish.

WVU is going to suffer a bit of the same fate, but at the same time they have no other choice. The Big East is dead, and if they don't jump to the SEC they won't have another option. I am sure Louisville and Cincy will be Begging the SEC as well, but they both probably end up back into some sort of conferene USA type setup. Although I guess if the SEC does decide to go to 16, they could add Mizzou and Cincy, with Cincy being there largely as a big FU to the big 10
 

Butch Hobsons elbo chips

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I can't see the Big East going after small basketball fish like UMass or ODU when Temple is out there. It's a solid fit both culturally and athletically.

Temple wouldn't be in play any more than George Washington/George Mason or any NYC area teams would be.
Villanova would VETO any other Philly area school just as Georgetown would VETO any DC/northern VA school and St Johns the same with New York. You don't think these catholic schools are going to band together like the basketball mafia and not protect their own turf. :lol:

Despite being in an urban setting, Temple still can't draw fans to their home basketball games. It's unfortunate but no one drives into the "bad lands" of North Philly to watch Temple basketball. Their attendance was below 6000 avg last year and that was in a succesful season on the court. Beating Penn State last March was the first NCAA tournament game they won in 10 years.
Temple is already a weak academic school for undergraduates and just had 25% of their State Funding CUT with deeper cuts being proposed. I am not really sure what the "solid fit" would be if they have very little to offer.

There are no basketball programs at non-BCS schools on the East Coast that would be as highly competitive as Memphis so any schools that would be considered would have to offer a new market and have facilities and financial backing to be competitive long term.
 

twothousandone

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Temple wouldn't be in play any more than George Washington/George Mason or any NYC area teams would be.
Villanova would VETO any other Philly area school just as Georgetown would VETO any DC/northern VA school and St Johns the same with New York. You don't think these catholic schools are going to band together like the basketball mafia and not protect their own turf.
Duquesne? along with Xavier? The Catholic Schools Athletic Conference?
 

Joe D Reid

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Can't be to lousy of a school when they have over 20 Rhodes Scholars.
For a long time they earmarked Rhodes scholarships by state. I'd bet there was not a tremendous amount of competition for the West Virginia slot in the first part of the century.

EDIT--Duquesne would be an interesting choice for a BB Big East successor. Keeps the league in Pittsburgh.

Georgetown basketball is a big loser in all this.