Concussions and Soccer

[One Leg at a Time]

I tend to think of someone more like a Danny Woodhead. If you can couple his quickness and athleticism with endurance and footwork you have a great player.

The problem is that there is not a football coach in any small town in America who is going to let that kid play soccer, instead of Pop Warner.

 

[mascho]

I tend to think of someone more like a Danny Woodhead. If you can couple his quickness and athleticism with endurance and footwork you have a great player.

The problem is that there is not a football coach in any small town in America who is going to let that kid play soccer, instead of Pop Warner.

Well, as more and more comes out about football and concussions, that football coach might run into serious resistance from Mommy and Daddy Woodhead.

I've talked here at length about my personal experiences playing football through college, both in terms of pros and cons, and while I love the sport if be perfectly happy if mascho jr went down the futbol path.

 

[Zososoxfan]

I tend to think of someone more like a Danny Woodhead. If you can couple his quickness and athleticism with endurance and footwork you have a great player.

The problem is that there is not a football coach in any small town in America who is going to let that kid play soccer, instead of Pop Warner.

 
Agree with Mascho here. This is the crux of what we're discussing. First, there's now more coaches (to use your narrative) who would push Jr. towards soccer, which is really just an extension of the sport starting to reach the mainstream here. 2nd, I think the concussion situation is very real. 3rd, and I think most important, as more and more players make lucrative careers in the sport, I think you'll see more athletes figure out they have better odds in soccer than they do in other sports.

 

[JayMags71]

I've talked here at length about my personal experiences playing football through college, both in terms of pros and cons, and while I love the sport if be perfectly happy if mascho jr went down the futbol path.

You're not alone:

Asked if he would prefer that his sons not play football, (Kurt) Warner answered, Yes, I would. Cant make that choice for them if they want to, but theres no question in my mind.

"If I had a 10-year-old boy," (Troy) Aikman said, "I don't know that I'd be real inclined to encourage him to go play football, in light of what we're learning from head injuries.

 

[One Leg at a Time]

Well, as more and more comes out about football and concussions, that football coach might run into serious resistance from Mommy and Daddy Woodhead.

I've talked here at length about my personal experiences playing football through college, both in terms of pros and cons, and while I love the sport if be perfectly happy if mascho jr went down the futbol path.

That's a great point, and one I hadn't considered.

Do you think the 'worm has turned' on the concussion issue, and parents are deciding (around 3rd/4th grade), that soccer is a better option than football?

I haven't coached 'mixed' teams in several years, but I remember parents telling me that little Bobby could only play/practice if it didn't interfere with football. Are current youth soccer coaches still hearing that?

 

[DLew On Roids]

I can only speak for myself, but I will never, ever sign a permission slip allowing my 11-YO to play football.  And it's not just the head injuries.  It's the friend I have who's 40 and walks with a limp from playing HS football.  When we were in college together, he had to walk around with a pack on his hip that injected IV antibiotics because one of his knee surgeries developed a staph infection.

 

[luckiestman]

What is the concussion situation like in soccer from heading the ball?

I imagine it is safer than football but it must still be pretty common

 

[Infield Infidel]

On phone, but there was a long-form story a few years back talking about CTE with Italian footballers.

 

[DLew On Roids]

Modern balls reduce the risk, but I'm sure it's still there.  CTE symptoms aren't uncommon in ex-professionals who played when the ball was made of leather and could absorb water. 
 
 
I'd say the future of soccer with respect to surviving the head injury question is a lot brighter, though.  You could outlaw heading tomorrow without fundamentally changing the game.  You can't significantly reduce the head injury risk in American football without eliminating the kind of collisions that happen multiple times on every play.

 

[Al Zarilla]

I'd say the future of soccer with respect to surviving the head injury question is a lot brighter, though.  You could outlaw heading tomorrow without fundamentally changing the game.  You can't significantly reduce the head injury risk in American football without eliminating the kind of collisions that happen multiple times on every play.

You think so? I think heading the ball is a huge part of soccer, especially at the highest levels. A lot of the goals scored are on headers after corner kicks. First contact on any long ball is more often a header than anything else. Etc.

 

[Homa]

Isn't there already headgear available? FIFA could make the use of them mandatory, like they did with shin guards.

 

[DLew On Roids]

You think so? I think heading the ball is a huge part of soccer, especially at the highest levels. A lot of the goals scored are on headers after corner kicks. First contact on any long ball is more often a header than anything else. Etc.

 
If you forced the players to chest the ball instead, the effect would be minimal.  Flick-ons would disappear, sure, and corner kick tactics would change, but it's not fundamental to the sport.
 
I'm not advocating for the change, by the way.

 

[Schnerres]

Modern balls reduce the risk, but I'm sure it's still there.  CTE symptoms aren't uncommon in ex-professionals who played when the ball was made of leather and could absorb water. 
 
 
I'd say the future of soccer with respect to surviving the head injury question is a lot brighter, though.  You could outlaw heading tomorrow without fundamentally changing the game.  You can't significantly reduce the head injury risk in American football without eliminating the kind of collisions that happen multiple times on every play.

 
A game without headers could happen if you change the game and especially the ball to a game that´s more like Futsal. Faster tempo, low passes, more vertical passing instead of crosses, but i doubt it.
 

What is the concussion situation like in soccer from heading the ball?

I imagine it is safer than football but it must still be pretty common

 
I cannot think about a specific situation where a player missed matches or significant time with a concussion (like Reus is out for the WC with a concussion), although it probably happens from time to time in professional football. But when you play football each day, such things happen, as the risk for injury gets higher, of course.
In amateur leagues, i never experienced such things (almost 30 years as a youth player, senior player, youth coach). I´ve seen balls to the face, bloody noses, crying kids. I´ve seen broken bones, kids throwing up, feeling dizzy, but nothing due to ball in the face.
With kids up to 10 or 12 years old, you use the light balls, which should cause absolutely no problems!
From then on, it could be more dangerous.
And the teenagers are more prone to troubles, too, as they get whiny (talk about my current team). Many 13-15 year olds are afraid to head the ball after goalkicks or corners. And i know where this comes from: from their parents...they carry their bags the entire day right until the dressing room and after the match (just example for powdering their babies behind) and they even tell them, it´s dangerous for the head and the backbone if they head too often. Best is, these are sometimes guys that never played football or actually learned something in a coaching class or sports education whatsoever...and the kids run around and don´t use their heads!
 
To sum it up: i don´t think concussions happen regularly in football. As the word used was head injuries, i would go as far as saying superficial head injuries like cuts (from bouncing heads) happen much more frequent than concussions and even broken face bones happen more often and nothing of it is related to the ball. Could happen because of an elbow, foot-to-head, bouncing heads, or whatever, but tackling is part of football and even headgear like Petr Cech´s won´t help much against that, as many injuries happen right in the face.

 

[robssecondjob]

I actually had a parent complain about me teaching headers. My argument about teaching proper form was lost completely...

 

[Infield Infidel]

In the article about the italian players they theorized that instead of concussions, the brain injury was due to repeated subconcussive trauma. Kinda like offensive linemen.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

And the teenagers are more prone to troubles, too, as they get whiny (talk about my current team). Many 13-15 year olds are afraid to head the ball after goalkicks or corners. And i know where this comes from: from their parents...they carry their bags the entire day right until the dressing room and after the match (just example for powdering their babies behind) and they even tell them, it´s dangerous for the head and the backbone if they head too often. Best is, these are sometimes guys that never played football or actually learned something in a coaching class or sports education whatsoever...and the kids run around and don´t use their heads!
 
 

 
The whiny teens and parents might not know as much about football as you do, but they're clearly more acquainted than you are with the emerging literature on the cumulative impact of subclinical head trauma in soccer.  

 

[Gunfighter 09]

The Hugo Lloris incident last year in the first Tottenham - Everton match showed how, while the concussion risk is much lower in Soccer, the protocols are far behind what exists in the NFL or NHL.  After this collision: 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK-Wfhgcu90
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPV8I3pg9U
 
lloris kept playing, which wouldn't happen in the NFL or NHL anymore. 

 

[cjdmadcow]

Jeff Astle was a West Brom and England forward who died in 2002 at the age of 59 and the coroner recorded the verdict as early on-set dementia caused by heading footballs.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2588244/Jeff-Astle-concussion-campaign-FA-Chairman-Greg-Dyke-issues-apology-family.html
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26817099
 
 

 

 
As pointed out upthread, the way footballs are made these days is significantly different to the time that Astle was playing, when the thought of heading a heavy, wet, leather ball used to make us as kids run away screaming. Today they are so much lighter, hence the swerve and dip that players love but goalkeepers hate. Not even CR7 could make one of those old balls swerve.
 
DLew, if the day ever comes when heading MAY be considered an unnecessary part of the game, I'm outta here.

 

[Schnerres]

 
The whiny teens and parents might not know as much about football as you do, but they're clearly more acquainted than you are with the emerging literature on the cumulative impact of subclinical head trauma in soccer.  

It´s the first time i´ve read now an article about old people dying because of demencia or Alzheimer who came as a reason after professional football players ended their careers and the headers caused it, i have to admit.
But i doubt that my kids teams parents know anything about that, it´s just that thought that the ball hurts or could hurt when it hits them in the face and they shouldn´t head. Others said to me they shouldn´t do headers because their backbone is compressed...well ok.
I don´t have much to say to those things, i mean, our youth team isn´t a professional team and we don´t use the leather balls that weigh 1kg+ when it´s raining. So when i see that professionals (who headed a ton per week with the old leather balls and medicine balls, it said in the report!) got sick at an old stage in their lives (it´s not as if they died in their 30s), i don´t think this is as threatening to amateurs with new, lighter balls (up to 500g). That´s my opinion.
I´m not saying there won´t happen things in football considering concussions, but it´s the things like the video with Lloris who happen and are much more dangerous than regular headers. People are dying instantly from such events like in the video.
 
I forgot it to mention before, but exactly such a thing happened to my teammate when i was about 20years old.
We played in a small village, low cross came in, our goalie dived for the ball at the 6yards box, forward went to the ball. I don´t remember, what then happened (happened 10+ years ago), goalie couldn´t secure the ball, maybe boxed it away, we shot it away, someone screamed that he´s knocked out...
The forward must have hit him with the knee to the head (almost like the Lloris incident), he swallowed his tongue, couldn´t breathe for a few seconds, maybe half a minute (seemed like an eternity), etc. Somehow, someone managed to get it back out, helicopter was landing on the pitch about 10mins later, straight to hospital, game called. I was literally shaking and almost crying, as i thought he could be dying. That´s the worst thing i experienced in football. And i think those situations are much more dangerous than regular, cumulative headers.

 

[DLew On Roids]

DLew, if the day ever comes when heading MAY be considered an unnecessary part of the game, I'm outta here.

Sure. Ya gonna watch cricket instead?

 

[luckiestman]

 
A game without headers could happen if you change the game and especially the ball to a game that´s more like Futsal. Faster tempo, low passes, more vertical passing instead of crosses, but i doubt it.
 
 
I cannot think about a specific situation where a player missed matches or significant time with a concussion (like Reus is out for the WC with a concussion), although it probably happens from time to time in professional football. But when you play football each day, such things happen, as the risk for injury gets higher, of course.
In amateur leagues, i never experienced such things (almost 30 years as a youth player, senior player, youth coach). I´ve seen balls to the face, bloody noses, crying kids. I´ve seen broken bones, kids throwing up, feeling dizzy, but nothing due to ball in the face.
With kids up to 10 or 12 years old, you use the light balls, which should cause absolutely no problems!
From then on, it could be more dangerous.
And the teenagers are more prone to troubles, too, as they get whiny (talk about my current team). Many 13-15 year olds are afraid to head the ball after goalkicks or corners. And i know where this comes from: from their parents...they carry their bags the entire day right until the dressing room and after the match (just example for powdering their babies behind) and they even tell them, it´s dangerous for the head and the backbone if they head too often. Best is, these are sometimes guys that never played football or actually learned something in a coaching class or sports education whatsoever...and the kids run around and don´t use their heads!
 
To sum it up: i don´t think concussions happen regularly in football. As the word used was head injuries, i would go as far as saying superficial head injuries like cuts (from bouncing heads) happen much more frequent than concussions and even broken face bones happen more often and nothing of it is related to the ball. Could happen because of an elbow, foot-to-head, bouncing heads, or whatever, but tackling is part of football and even headgear like Petr Cech´s won´t help much against that, as many injuries happen right in the face.

 
 
What you are saying here makes sense, but I think I should have written traumatic brain injury instead of concussion. I've heard that boxers that don't get concussed can still get brain injury from the repeated head jarring.
 
On headgear, that does nothing for concussions from what I know about sparring in boxing. Your brain still can smash the inside of your skull perfectly fine, the headgear protects against cuts.The only headgear I am aware of that protects the brain is something like a motorcycle helmet and those things are one time use according to the manufacturer
 
 
The point about the ball being different that everyone is making is probably valid