Concussion Water - Tom Brady approved snake oil

[TheoShmeo]

Holy overreaction.  There's no "woe is me" here.  You are right, we are lucky as hell to be rooting for the SB champs and a team that is still kicking ass.  The first quarter of this season has been glorious and the future is bright.
 
Just offering an explanation as to why some people might be on edge, still.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

Holy overreaction.  There's no "woe is me" here.  You are right, we are lucky as hell to be rooting for the SB champs and a team that is still kicking ass.  The first quarter of this season has been glorious and the future is bright.
 
Just offering an explanation as to why some people might be on edge, still.

I get that. I'm just pointing out that those people are wrong and need to toughen up. They should be doing fingertip push-ups to build endurance for all the bird-flipping and crotch grabbing they'll be doing for the next four months.

 

[crystalline]

More irritating than having to tell some DFG truther, in a professional context, to stuff it (and I've told more than a few, including some who had associations to Paul Weiss), is holding the hand of a weak-kneed Patriots fan.

Tom wouldn't want you worrying about what might be lurking in the shadows. He'd want you to stand up and be glad the team is 4-0. Come on, man. It's about Honor! It's about Respect! Stop doing this to yourself!

This is exactly right.

But TS is right too that other NFL fans still dismiss the Pats as cheaters.

After the Pitt game, I had several friends (in other markets) forward me articles about the alleged headset "cheating".
I only got one person reaching out about rub routes, so I suppose it is dying down.


And the best response to "I hope you don't hold up the Patriots and Brady as models of integrity" is "we hold them up as examples of how to exhibit sustained excellence through superior preparation, while jealous competitors try to tear them down with petty unfounded sniping".

 

[JimBoSox9]

Holy overreaction.  There's no "woe is me" here. 

 
That's always what Eyore used to think, too.

 

[EricFeczko]

This is exactly right.

But TS is right too that other NFL fans still dismiss the Pats as cheaters.

After the Pitt game, I had several friends (in other markets) forward me articles about the alleged headset "cheating".
I only got one person reaching out about rub routes, so I suppose it is dying down.


And the best response to "I hope you don't hold up the Patriots and Brady as models of integrity" is "we hold them up as examples of how to exhibit sustained excellence through superior preparation, while jealous competitors try to tear them down with petty unfounded sniping".

Out of curiosity, how many of your friends are just trolling you?
I live in atlanta and have had very few issues with this. Occasionally someone may joke about it (and therefore is not taking it seriously), but that doesn't really require a response. In fact, many responses I get have been the opposite of yours (e.g. "the whole deflategate thing was bullshit", "RG is an ass").
In my experience, a couple of people have tried to argue this seriously, but they've stopped because they look like idiots about 15 minutes into the argument.

 

[TPIRman]

Can we please please cut out the whoa is us sad sack shit?

 
"Whoa is us" is actually the most appropriate response to the 2015 New England Patriots thus far.

 

[crystalline]

Out of curiosity, how many of your friends are just trolling you?
I live in atlanta and have had very few issues with this. Occasionally someone may joke about it (and therefore is not taking it seriously), but that doesn't really require a response. In fact, many responses I get have been the opposite of yours (e.g. "the whole deflategate thing was bullshit", "RG is an ass").
In my experience, a couple of people have tried to argue this seriously, but they've stopped because they look like idiots about 15 minutes into the argument.

It's both.

They're trolling me, and they really believe the Patriots are cheaters.

 

[johnmd20]

Holy overreaction.  There's no "woe is me" here.  You are right, we are lucky as hell to be rooting for the SB champs and a team that is still kicking ass.  The first quarter of this season has been glorious and the future is bright.
 
Just offering an explanation as to why some people might be on edge, still.

 
I like in NYC too and people tried to pull that stuff with me, too. But I didn't engage. I haven't heard a Cheatriot comment since August. I think they are trying to egg you on. Don't let them.

 

[Marciano490]

 
I like in NYC too and people tried to pull that stuff with me, too. But I didn't engage. I haven't heard a Cheatriot comment since August. I think they are trying to egg you on. Don't let them.

 
I thought this was going to be a cooler story for a second.

 

[johnmd20]

 
I thought this was going to be a cooler story for a second.

 
I don't have any great office stories anymore. I'm boring now.

 

[yep]

There may or may not be quackery involved here, but I think a lot of what Brady says rings true. Consider:
 
"That's kind of our approach to medicine -- let's wait until you get sick, let's wait until you get hurt, oh, and then we'll treat you. Well, how about finding ways to try to prevent yourself from that even happening? I think that's a much better approach to medicine"
 
"I think I've really stepped outside the box in the way I try to train, eat, hydrate, the cognitive brain games I play on a daily or weekly basis to try to build up some durability within my body, within my brain, to be able to go out there and play at a high level at age 38. Now, you guys may think that I'm full of crap, but the proof is what you see on the field."
 
"I would love to encourage all my teammates to eat the best way they possibly can; high school athletes. Now, that's not the way our food system in America is set up. It's very different. They have a food pyramid and I disagree with that. I disagree with a lot of things that people tell you to do. You probably go out and drink Coca-Cola and think 'Oh yeah, that's no problem.' Why? Because they pay lots of money for advertisements"
 
"The fact they can sell that to kids, that's poison for kids" (Coke)
 
"So much of it is being proactive. It's not waiting to get sick. It's not waiting to get injured. Lifestyle choices are very important to your health and wellness. We haven't been educated like that. I think we feel like we can just do whatever we want -- we can live, we can eat however we want, drink however we want, do all these different exercises as the way to a healthy lifestyle. I think a lot of those things have been very wrong. I think we've been lied to by a lot of food companies over the years, a lot of beverage companies over the years. But we still do it. That's just America and that's what we've been conditioned to; we believe that Frosted Flakes is actually a food. You just keep eating those things and you wonder why we have incredible rates of disease in our country."
 
"Of course they taste good and all those companies make lots of money selling those things; they have lots of money to advertise. When you go to the Super Bowl, who are the sponsors? So like I said, that's the education we get; that's what we get brainwashed to believe, that all these things are just normal food groups and this is what you should eat."

 
One of the secrets to selling snake oil is vividly describe one or more real, troubling, pernicious, and seemingly-intractable problems, and highlighting ways in which the problem(s) are related to a variety of wealthy and powerful vested interests. Another is finding some extraordinary outlier of a case study or spokesperson to use as your showcase. 

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

One of the secrets to selling snake oil is vividly describe one or more real, troubling, pernicious, and seemingly-intractable problems, and highlighting ways in which the problem(s) are related to a variety of wealthy and powerful vested interests. Another is finding some extraordinary outlier of a case study or spokesperson to use as your showcase.

Yeah, but did you read any of what you quoted there? None of those remarks from TB12 is in any way remotely controversial or even up for debate, really. Which is not to say AG is on the level, he may very well not be. He may very well be selling snake oil. What you say is true, generally, but I'm not seeing how it refutes the passage you cited, even a little bit.

Edit: because my first take was terrible, and I was hoping for merely awful

 

[Devizier]

None of those remarks from TB12 is in any way remotely controversial or even up for debate, really.

 
That's exactly the point that yep was making.
 
It's a magician's trick.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

I understand his point. I don't think it applies to anything in the quotes. I don't think anything Brady is saying there is wrong. The arguments laid out there are, I think, kind of irrefutable. They're not outliers or examples of some sort of sleight of hand, they are empirically true statements.

 

[Three10toLeft]

After watching how things played out for Tom during DFG, and now after listening to this interview in full, it's abundantly clear why Tom never really took off as the actual face of the NFL, like Peyton did. Tom is awful at PR. Whether he has just outright ignored any help in this regard from his agent or PR team, none of us will ever know. But it's obvious he just comes off very defensive at times and unpolished. Which is odd for someone who has dealt with the media for as long as he has.

I'm not saying that TB should really want to be any better at this, or that it even matters, it's just my own take. Personally, his defense of AG just seemed odd. Your defense for someone who has been exposed for preying on people diagnosed with cancer can't just be "Well... I didn't read the whole article." And "It didn't tell the whole story."

TB actually made great points in his counter argument. But they get lost in the shuffle when you come across sounding so badly in other regards.

 

[Ed Hillel]

And what should his defense have been, then? It's clear Brady was aware of the incident. His response was basically, "I'm aware, AG paid for his sins, but I believe in his other methods and trust him implicitly." Given that he is associated with the guy and that is not going to change, I'm not really sure there's a better answer.

 

[Three10toLeft]

And what should his defense have been, then? It's clear Brady was aware of the incident. His response was basically, "I'm aware, AG paid for his sins, but I believe in his other methods and trust him implicitly." Given that he is associated with the guy and that is not going to change, I'm not really sure there's a better answer.

Yes, I think that would have been a better answer than what he provided. Questioning the bias of the article without providing any context or counter argument seems silly.

A simple statement like, "Yeah, I don't want to talk about what AG has done in the past. I know he's done somethings he's not proud of and that he's paid the price for them. I trust his judgement and his character. That article didn't paint a full picture, but regardless, we all make mistakes. I think Alex has done a great job with myself and I look forward to us working together in the years to come and educating people and athletes about a healthier lifestyle."

Again, it doesn't seem like Tom really cares about this stuff, or prioritizes it that highly, which I don't care either way.

I don't think Tom did anything nefarious with the deflation of any footballs, but when you watched his interview with Bob Costas during the super bowl pregame, it looked bad. Just like this interview sounded kind of bad. It was the same canned answer about the AG article that he used in regards to the question that was brought up about the comments Greg Hardy made about TB's wife.

Defusing the question about the concussion juice that he was endorsing would be as easy as: "Listen, do I think this stuff prevents concussions, or the harm they can cause you? No. But I do know that I feel more comfortable, and feel like I can rest assured knowing I'm doing everything in my power to not only prevent something like a concussion occurring, or if and when it does happen, that I've done what I think is best to limit the effects of one, as much as I can." And then possibly digress into finer details as to why he believes this.

Again, it's not Tom's message. It's how he delivers it.

 

[mauidano]

 
Quackery. Every couple years it's something different. These things were the rage a few years back, all the kids were wearing them.  Placebos.  But someone made these athletes believe that these would make them better at what they do. As WC Fields said, "There's a sucker born every minute".

 

[Koufax]

Spoken most likely by David Hannum in criticism of PT Barnum.   Usually attributed to Barnum himself.

 

[lexrageorge]

After watching how things played out for Tom during DFG, and now after listening to this interview in full, it's abundantly clear why Tom never really took off as the actual face of the NFL, like Peyton did. Tom is awful at PR. Whether he has just outright ignored any help in this regard from his agent or PR team, none of us will ever know. But it's obvious he just comes off very defensive at times and unpolished. Which is odd for someone who has dealt with the media for as long as he has.

I'm not saying that TB should really want to be any better at this, or that it even matters, it's just my own take. Personally, his defense of AG just seemed odd. Your defense for someone who has been exposed for preying on people diagnosed with cancer can't just be "Well... I didn't read the whole article." And "It didn't tell the whole story."

TB actually made great points in his counter argument. But they get lost in the shuffle when you come across sounding so badly in other regards.

I think Brady just considers this whole thing a manufactured controversy created by an amateur journalist for Boston magazine, and doesn't feel the need to dignify the matter with a responses that seems proper from a PR perspective.  Can't say I blame him either.

 

[RG33]

The idea that a certain brand of water provides better hydration and could help make you less susceptible to the effects of a concussion has no truth to it.  As stated upthread by Devizier, we killed Russell Wilson for making almost this exact claim several months ago.
 
It's actually kind of stunning that you are cynical about Gatorade (which actually has studies to back up it's rather limited claims about the benefits of proper hydration) and yet are willing to believe there may be something to the concussion idea.

I don't think there is anything to the concussion idea. I think the claim, like that of gatorade and vitamin water and everything else is the same. Hydrate better (with water), and you will feel better or have better results. They all add the "magic", which is usually just sugar to make it taste better. It's all marketing and bullshit. My point was just the concept of being better hydrated probably does help to some miniscule degree, and I don't see how it is that different from gatorade. Instead of broadly marketing a "sports drink" to help you "perform better" with gatorade, they specifically marketed it to help with concussions. It is all bullshit marketing, I just don't see why the outcry against Russell Wilson or Brady in this instance.

 

[biollante]

As long as he shows up every week to play, I don't care what Brady does or endorses commercially. I get a sense that he only knows football and models, which is not a bad knowledge base.

 

[Van Everyman]

More:

@BostonMagazine: Tom Brady's guru Alex Guerrero was twice sued for fraud: https://t.co/WEmC6msoFD https://t.co/R846rwWrBH

 

[Leather]

I'm still not sure why anyone should give a shit. Show me a celebrity that doesn't have a close friend with some trash in their history. As long as he's not defrauding Brady to the detriment of the Patriots, why should football fans care?

As to the point of the story itself: lots of people get sued. Run a business long enough and you will be sued by somebody. I'm not saying that necessarily absolves the guy in any way, but allegation alone don't mean much, and in fact are themselves often more overblown than the truth for leverage purposes.

But again: who fucking cares?

 

[JimBoSox9]

I'm still not sure why anyone should give a shit. Show me a celebrity that doesn't have a close friend with some trash in their history. As long as he's not defrauding Brady to the detriment of the Patriots, why should football fans care?

 
You would hope the guy isn't using the Brady name and connect to peddle garbage and swipe investor dollars, and I'd expect at least Gisele to understand why that's not good for the brand.  Other than that, I largely agree.  This is basically the "Dom-inated" episode of Entourage.

 

[Leather]

Papa Johns was sued for violating wage laws and has to pay $2 Million! OMG what does Peyton know and why does he continue to be in a business relationship with that man?!

 

[Devizier]

Papa Johns was sued for violating wage laws and has to pay $2 Million! OMG what does Peyton know and why does he continue to be in a business relationship with that man?!

 
The differences are pretty obvious; Manning isn't a partner in Papa John's, notably.

 

[Leather]

Ya I know.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

 
The differences are pretty obvious; Manning isn't a partner in Papa John's, notably.

Not that it really matters to the joke, but Manning owns something like 20+ Papa John's stores doesn't he?

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

21 in Colorado at least

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/08/peyton-manning-papa-johns-weed-legalization_n_2094395.html