This is really great to read. Even if it costs you a few bucks more, the value your kid gets from building the machine almost certainly makes up for it as a one off.
Computer build questions - uh oh
- Thread starter Yaz4Ever
- Start date
SumnerH said:
And the added benefit is that I think he'll take better care of it -- in terms of keeping it clean and safe, and investing the time and effort into virus protection and stuff -- than if we'd just bought it from a store. He feels he has a stake in it.
Yeah. I think long term usually buying good prebuilt stuff makes more sense, but everyone who is even borderline interested will be very well served building one or two machines themselves and it'll be a cool custom machine on top of the stuff you learn in the process. Especially when you can teach a kid in the process.DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
leftfieldlegacy said:
My answer presaged that circumstance, it's not unusual for them to put on sale a model that undercuts one or two lower models for price. You will never tell the difference if you use the 4590, even the benchmarks will only differ slightly...your choice.
No, you have no need for an i7 and the price jump is considerable, only those doing tons of very computational intensive work need any i7 model.
The sweet spot for monitors these days is 1900 x 1080 24" "class" IPS monitors, the actual sizes run from 23.8 to 24". Read the last few pages of the Tech Bargain thread and you will see one or 2 of these on sale literally every week. Most have HDMI & DVI input, Displayport is rare at this price class. A dual setup lets you angle them in slightly, use one to keep browser, file manager and other utils handy while you use the other for whatever main app you're working on atm. Also great for using one to watch live stuff while working.. At under $250 for a pair this is about half what we used to expect to pay for a good video setup. At the resolutions you will be using the output from HDMI, DVI or Displayport will all be identical so which 2 you use just depends on what that mb offers. You should easily find, at basically the same price, either Asus or ASRock motherboards that have HDMI & DVI. They seem to carry at the same price the ASRock Z97 Pro4 LGA that several here (including me) have used and like a lot, this also includes optical audio out and Intel ethernet which is considered premium.
Finally, do you have a printer ? If not I suspect you don't get to 30 days without finding a need. Do a Canon b&w laser printer or multifunction which on sale will run $60 to $110.
EDIT:
Today Newegg has this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009700&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=IGNEFL042815&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL042815&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL042815-_-EMC-042815-Index-_-LCDLEDMonitors-_-24009700-S0B
a perfect example of a great buy, 1 or 2 of these are an excellent budget decision.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
This makes me smile, it's also this generation's equivalent to rebuilding their first used car which is becoming both technologically and financially impossible: knowing what's going on under the hood builds confidence and assurance in ways hard to measure.
You also lucked out, back in the day Newegg refurb boards would show up with just that: the board, not even the backplate for the case. Fortunately it seems EVGA doesn't do nasty stuff like that. You can overclock that cpu seriously: you want either of the Coolermasters either $20 or $30 after their stupid $5 rebates on sale at Newegg. The limits to how hard you can push it is when the video fails, which is quite weak on that chip...for serious gaming he will go to a video card.
Couperin47 said:
Yeah, the video is not great -- there's a noticeable difference between the pentium and my i5 -- but hopefully when we get a video card it will be a good setup.
I should have mentioned that about the board -- nothing in the box other than the board and the backplate. No manual, sata cables, or anything, and the EVGA website is not great for downloads, so definitely a bit of a PITA. It also looks like the board that EVGA sells new has a nifty little metal plate that covers the chipset and has a nice logo on it, which didn't come in the box. Still for $60 less than they sell the new boards for, and $40 less than the ASUS mini at the time, it was ok for us. Flashing the bios was way more complicated than with the ASrock board, as an example. But for a new build that's as much of a project as anything else, some of that stuff is part of the fun, and so I didn't mind.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
You navigated all those issues ?...congrats we should issue you a diploma. Refurb video cards are less of an issue...there's no parts they can leave out...
Couperin47 said:
Some hiccups along the way, but we got through it. It's amazing how many resources there are on the internet. Even the little things. Like I attached the fans to the motherboard headers and then tried to use the EVGA bios to control them, but it just wouldn't work. Sure enough with some targeted google searching, I learned that three-pin fans can't be controlled with the MB, but need to be 4 pin, etc. Lots of little things like that.
I'll tell you, the hardest part of the whole darned thing may just be attaching the intel fan above the cpu. What a pain.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
I overclock most builds so I'm almost never using the Intel abomination, hell I've been accused of overclocking just so I can spec one of the Coolermasters and avoid the Intel...it's only $20 on sale....
I like the idea of dual monitors, but I'm concerned that for making subtle color adjustments or altering contrast etc. on my photos, I would need the screen to be directly in front of me, not off to the side or angled in.Couperin47 said:
I have a printer. A color canon laser that you helped me find a good deal on back in November.
leftfieldlegacy said:
The thing about IPS and VA monitors is their spec'ed angles of viewing are 178 x 178 degrees (when looking at any monitor specs, when you see those you know it's an IPS, MVA or VA panel) and their main benefit is that slight off angle does NOT produce the color shifts you see in TN panels (normally around 160 x 160). If you have 2 slightly angled and you're in the middle, you only need to turn your head slightly to be dead on, and as I said, a few degrees off will not produce the color shifts of TN, the other setup is one dead ahead, one angled to the side and you do all the serious work on the one straight ahead.
Good to understand that now. I'm more comfortable with a dual monitor set up.Couperin47 said:
I made some changes to the original parts list and just need to settle on the mb. I've listed two options the Z97 PRO 4 that you mentioned and the Z97 extreme 6 which would include displayport in addition to DVI and HDMI but for $30 more. That is still a significant savings off that mb alone because it is bundled w/ the 4690K chip. I decided to stay with the 4690K because with the bundle discount it was only a few dollars more than the 4590. Plus the price of the 4690K chip and the OS also dropped another $10 each.
Upgraded the SSD and HDD.
Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz LGA 1150 Boxed Processor: $189.99
ASRock Z97 Extreme6 Socket LGA 1150 ATX Intel Motherboard (DVI, HDMI and Diplayport) $119.99
or
ASRock Z97 PRO4 LGA 1150 ATX Intel Motherboard (DVI and HDMI) $89.99 (incl rebate)
MS OEM WIN 8.1 64 BIT ENG 1 PK DVD $89.99
LG GH24NSC0B 24x Internal DVD Rewritable SATA Drive $14.99
Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) CL9 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit (Two 8GB Memory Modules): $114.99
CORSAIR CARBIDE SERIES 300R CASE: $69.99
CRUCIAL 250 GB MX200 2.5 SATA SSD: $109.99
TOSHIBA 3TB 3.5' 7200: $104.99
Corsair CX Series CX600M 600 Watt ATX Modular Power Supply: $74.99
Totals for components w/ tax are $921. or $890. depending on the mb
leftfieldlegacy said:
For $30 I'd probably go for the mb with all 3 video outs too. You'll be using this for years, any way you look at it amortized it's pennies. The good news is Classic Shell costs exactly nothing to make Win 8.1 into something really comfortable.
Great thread.
So I just got finished building a new PC to replace my aging (~6 year old) Windows box. Overall things went pretty well, and I'm am pretty pleased with how it came out. I do have one minor annoyance though that I thought I would throw at the knowledgeable folks here. First of all, my components are as follows:
CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97-D3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Crucial BX100 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: Corsair CSM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply
Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer
Video Card: EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1GB (harvested from my old PC)
2nd Hard Drive: WD Black WD1501FASS 1.5TB 7200 RPM 3.5" Internal Hard Drive (harvested from my old PC)
The annoyance is: frequently (but not always) when I power on the computer from a completely powered off state, the machine comes on, the fans spin up, but I get no video signal on my monitor, and the machine does not boot. The fans then settle down to a normal speed, and the machine just kind of sits there indefinitely. If I then force the computer off by holding down the power button, then immediately power it back on by pressing the power button again, I get video and the computer boots normally (seemingly 100% of the time).
Any ideas? I have updated to the latest motherboard BIOS. Could some BIOS setting be to blame? Appreciate any advice.
So I just got finished building a new PC to replace my aging (~6 year old) Windows box. Overall things went pretty well, and I'm am pretty pleased with how it came out. I do have one minor annoyance though that I thought I would throw at the knowledgeable folks here. First of all, my components are as follows:
CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97-D3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Crucial BX100 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: Corsair CSM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply
Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer
Video Card: EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1GB (harvested from my old PC)
2nd Hard Drive: WD Black WD1501FASS 1.5TB 7200 RPM 3.5" Internal Hard Drive (harvested from my old PC)
The annoyance is: frequently (but not always) when I power on the computer from a completely powered off state, the machine comes on, the fans spin up, but I get no video signal on my monitor, and the machine does not boot. The fans then settle down to a normal speed, and the machine just kind of sits there indefinitely. If I then force the computer off by holding down the power button, then immediately power it back on by pressing the power button again, I get video and the computer boots normally (seemingly 100% of the time).
Any ideas? I have updated to the latest motherboard BIOS. Could some BIOS setting be to blame? Appreciate any advice.
Gorton Fisherman said:
The Peripherals page in your BIOS has 4 options for video initialization, from what I can see it's supposed to default to the video card in the PCIe 1 slot. There is also a separate setting to enable the Intel graphics, which is also defalted to ON, followed by a setting for how much ram the Intel graphics should utilize.
In the MIT settings (hell of a place to hide this) under Misc Settings, there's a setting for PCIe Slot Config. Auto is supposed to be best, Gen 2 will not slow up your old video card and may improve detection/compatibility. This is supposed to mostly affect bandwidth...but I suspect it may help with detection.
Your video card then should be in the X16 slot closest to the cpu, #1. If you're currently not using the on board Intel video, try turning that off. If this doesn't help then it's something I've been seeing for a while: your video card is compliant with an early version of PCI Express 2.0 and your mb complies with the latest greatest 3.0 and the backwards compatibility is not perfect, your mb is having a problem detecting the card.... You have nothing to lose by trying the video card in Slot 4, which may actually be more compatible with 2.0.
Decent chance some combo of the MIT setting, turning off the Intel graphics and slot selection will improve your situation.
Thanks for the suggestions. FYI my video card is in slot #1 (closest to the CPU). That Peripherals page setting for video was already set to slot #1. Also, the Intel graphics were already disabled (I disabled this after I got my video card installed).
I did try changing that MIT setting to Gen 2; unfortunately this didn't seem to help.
One thing left for me to try is moving the video card to slot #4. Will try this and let you know.
I did try changing that MIT setting to Gen 2; unfortunately this didn't seem to help.
One thing left for me to try is moving the video card to slot #4. Will try this and let you know.
Gorton Fisherman said:
When trying the #4 slot you also get to fiddle with the PCIE Slot config option at the end of the Peripherals page, it defaults to Auto, you should also try X4.
The incompatibility seems to be that the video card is not yet initialized to a state where the Z97 chipset notices, which explains why it generally gets recognized when you reboot. You might also consider disabling Fast Boot, turning the Full Screen LOGO show on, to see if the extra time while it checks memory will allow detection. Also, fiddle, while it may be unintuitive, try turning on the Intel graphics...these settings sometimes have interactions we don't expect....you're not going to damage anything ...
Finally, this BIOS, at the end of the Power management page, has the ominous Power Platform Management section, wherein, if you turn this stuff on it can control the PCIe ASPM..yet another misguided attempt to save a tiny fraction of power. This is set to Auto but only matters if you have turned the whole power management ON. It seems obvious this stuff should all just be disabled simply for stability, but the fact that the PCIe slots on these newest motherboards need to be engineered to support such nonsense explains why we get these minor incompatibilities with older hardware.
Couperin47 said:
Couper, thanks very much for all of your advice and suggestions throughout this process.
I did end up going with the upgraded mb but I decided against a two monitor set up for now because I realized the available real estate on my desk was too limited. I was going to go with a single 27" monitor but then found a new model Dell Ultra sharp 25" monitor that sounded perfect for photo editing. It is advertised as a compromise between a full glossy or a full matte monitor. http://www.amazon.com/Dell-UltraSharp-U2515H-25-Inch-LED-Lit/dp/B00SPWPF1O.
It has very good reviews and so far I am quite happy with the way my photos look on it. My son had his HS prom earlier this week and the colors from those photos are spectacular.
The only other change I made to the build was swapping out the Corsair PS for a Thermaltake TR2 Series 600 Watt ATX Power Supply. After rebate my final cost of the PS was $40 vs $75 for the Corsair. I did this on the recommendation of a Micro Center employee. I felt comfortable with that decision because he was the one who looked at my original parts list and immediately said (as Couper did) to lose the Kingston SSD and "put a good one in". Hopefully he was straight with me on the PS.
The final build and costs look like this:
Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz LGA 1150 Boxed Processor: $189.99
ASRock Z97 Extreme6 Socket LGA 1150 ATX Intel Motherboard (DVI, HDMI and Diplayport) $119.99
MS OEM WIN 8.1 64 BIT ENG 1 PK DVD $89.99
LG GH24NSC0B 24x Internal DVD Rewritable SATA Drive $14.99
Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) CL9 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit (Two 8GB Memory Modules): $114.99
CORSAIR CARBIDE SERIES 300R CASE: $69.99
CRUCIAL 250 GB MX200 2.5 SATA SSD: $109.99
TOSHIBA 3TB 3.5' 7200: $104.99
Thermaltake TR2 Series 600 Watt ATX Power Supply: $39.99
Micro Center charge to build: $130.00
Logitech M510 Wireless Laser Mouse: $39.99
Microsoft Wired Keyboard 200: $9.99
Dell UltraSharp U2515H 25-Inch Screen LED-Lit Monitor: $349.99
Total: $1404.14 (tax incl)
I sent in 2 other mail in rebates that will total another $25, so I will get in at just under $1400.
Even though I didn't build this myself, I learned a lot about what goes into a good build and think I ended up with a great desktop system at a very reasonable price.
So I'm looking to build a system for gaming, specifically something that can play things like Star Wars Battlefront and games going forward at a reasonable cost.
I haven't built a custom PC in about 10 years so I'm not sure where to start in terms of parts, graphics cards etc.
The PC will be used for nothing but gaming. I'm more tempted to build a system rather than buy a PS4, but if it gets too be a ton of money then I may go console.
I already have a 23" monitor, keyboard and all that stuff so I just need a core system.
Any recommendations on where to start? What GPU to get etc? A lot of great info in the thread so far, but it's a bit old at this point
I haven't built a custom PC in about 10 years so I'm not sure where to start in terms of parts, graphics cards etc.
The PC will be used for nothing but gaming. I'm more tempted to build a system rather than buy a PS4, but if it gets too be a ton of money then I may go console.
I already have a 23" monitor, keyboard and all that stuff so I just need a core system.
Any recommendations on where to start? What GPU to get etc? A lot of great info in the thread so far, but it's a bit old at this point
Nothing in the last few pages of this thread are really 'old', especially for your purposes: the latest and greatest Intel chips are, once again, a slightly incremental improvement over the past, the latest architecture using DDR4 are relatively expensive and offer no real benefit for most of us.
Basic things to remember: Until recently most games, even today, didn't do a lot of multithreading so quad or even more cores wasn't doing a lot of good...in fact many kid gamers looking for the absolutely best bang for the buck would build using a simple dual core cpu like the Pentium G3258 which you could overclock the living hell out of for 70 bucks. More and more games now take advantage of multithreading so I'd recommend a mainstream quad core LGA 1150 socket i5 cpu. You can ignore the processors with the "K" suffix unless you're going to overclock. Overclocking involves changing 2 or 3 settings in the BIOS, done intelligently can yield a 20 to 30% faster cpu with zero implications for stability and lifespan (I've been overclocking everything I build for 30 years, never had a failure and have boxes that are 10 years old I know are still chugging along perfectly heavily overclocked). Overclocking will require you do something better than the stock Intel cooler, the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus or EVO both under $30, depending on their stupid $5 or $10 rebates, do as well as other solutions (including water cooling) that cost 4 to 6x the cost.
It's very rare that anyone undercuts Newegg and/or Amazon and if anything comes in broken, they are the easiest to deal with. Amazon tends to respond, often within hours to Newegg sales and their prices can change 3 times in one day. Newegg offers the best specs for general shopping. Add the Hover Hound addon to your browser and you can see the prices at Amazon, Tiger and NCIX as you browse, though it's not perfect (Amazon may have the same product in several different listings and it may not detect the one that just changed in response to a Newegg sale that day). When at Newegg look at the number of reviews: invariably the 'best bang for the buck - sweet spot' product will have hundreds or thousands of reviews compared to the other products in anyone's line.
PCpartpicker is another useful site though it seems to have a bias towards NCIX which is not my favorite supplier.
High end expensive fast memory yields only very slight increases in performance...put your money into a better video card. For serious gaming video cards start around $250 and can run well over $1,000 if you're a lunatic. The current 'really high end mainstream' boards are around $700. The sweet spot is invariably 'last year's top card'.
If you have one or 2 games that are your main interest, we are stuck with a situation that AMD and Nvidia have relationships with certain gaming companies and each have drivers that are significantly better with specific games because of this cooperation. Gaming sites for specific games will make it quite clear which brand is the preferred answer for that game.
These days keyboards and mice with huge amounts of extra programmable keys are almost a necessity for playing some games, Tons of options.
Reiterate my basic strategy: if you buy over a period of 6-8 weeks you will find sales on most of this stuff and can save quite a bit. The thing most likely to arrive broken is the case, buy that early so you can deal with return issues. It's impossible to avoid rebate nonsense so just be resigned to it.
A serious gaming machine means you want a power supply of at least 650w and you probably want something more than the bottom end Bronze supplies and stick to the decent brands: Corsair, SeaSonic, Antec, XFX, the higher end Rosewill stuff. Check for a serious review at JonnyGURU.com of specific supplies.
Your boot drive will be an SSD, find a sale on Samsung, Crucial, Intel, OCZ or Plextor. If you want your games to load fast, you'll need more than the minimum 120/128 gig size
The most recent recommendations in this thread for motherboards are still fine, especially if you don't plan on overclocking.
Basic things to remember: Until recently most games, even today, didn't do a lot of multithreading so quad or even more cores wasn't doing a lot of good...in fact many kid gamers looking for the absolutely best bang for the buck would build using a simple dual core cpu like the Pentium G3258 which you could overclock the living hell out of for 70 bucks. More and more games now take advantage of multithreading so I'd recommend a mainstream quad core LGA 1150 socket i5 cpu. You can ignore the processors with the "K" suffix unless you're going to overclock. Overclocking involves changing 2 or 3 settings in the BIOS, done intelligently can yield a 20 to 30% faster cpu with zero implications for stability and lifespan (I've been overclocking everything I build for 30 years, never had a failure and have boxes that are 10 years old I know are still chugging along perfectly heavily overclocked). Overclocking will require you do something better than the stock Intel cooler, the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus or EVO both under $30, depending on their stupid $5 or $10 rebates, do as well as other solutions (including water cooling) that cost 4 to 6x the cost.
It's very rare that anyone undercuts Newegg and/or Amazon and if anything comes in broken, they are the easiest to deal with. Amazon tends to respond, often within hours to Newegg sales and their prices can change 3 times in one day. Newegg offers the best specs for general shopping. Add the Hover Hound addon to your browser and you can see the prices at Amazon, Tiger and NCIX as you browse, though it's not perfect (Amazon may have the same product in several different listings and it may not detect the one that just changed in response to a Newegg sale that day). When at Newegg look at the number of reviews: invariably the 'best bang for the buck - sweet spot' product will have hundreds or thousands of reviews compared to the other products in anyone's line.
PCpartpicker is another useful site though it seems to have a bias towards NCIX which is not my favorite supplier.
High end expensive fast memory yields only very slight increases in performance...put your money into a better video card. For serious gaming video cards start around $250 and can run well over $1,000 if you're a lunatic. The current 'really high end mainstream' boards are around $700. The sweet spot is invariably 'last year's top card'.
If you have one or 2 games that are your main interest, we are stuck with a situation that AMD and Nvidia have relationships with certain gaming companies and each have drivers that are significantly better with specific games because of this cooperation. Gaming sites for specific games will make it quite clear which brand is the preferred answer for that game.
These days keyboards and mice with huge amounts of extra programmable keys are almost a necessity for playing some games, Tons of options.
Reiterate my basic strategy: if you buy over a period of 6-8 weeks you will find sales on most of this stuff and can save quite a bit. The thing most likely to arrive broken is the case, buy that early so you can deal with return issues. It's impossible to avoid rebate nonsense so just be resigned to it.
A serious gaming machine means you want a power supply of at least 650w and you probably want something more than the bottom end Bronze supplies and stick to the decent brands: Corsair, SeaSonic, Antec, XFX, the higher end Rosewill stuff. Check for a serious review at JonnyGURU.com of specific supplies.
Your boot drive will be an SSD, find a sale on Samsung, Crucial, Intel, OCZ or Plextor. If you want your games to load fast, you'll need more than the minimum 120/128 gig size
The most recent recommendations in this thread for motherboards are still fine, especially if you don't plan on overclocking.
One thing to be aware of with monitors - you probably have a 60hz monitor. For many years I built systems that would be fairly hard pressed to push beyond that 60 fps in games so I kept using the same 60hz IPS screen. However, today any competent mid-level gaming system will push beyond 60 fps with high settings - even mid level GPUs are that powerful. It's something I failed to consider when I built a system around a GTX 970 a year ago. Everything works much better with my new 144hz monitor though colors/viewing angle is less than perfect with the TN panel. They do have 144 hz IPS models now but they are fairly expensive.
Prior, many games would have frame drops with vsync on and tearing with it off. These effects are more noticeable with games that have a lot of fast action on screen - FPS and racing games.
Prior, many games would have frame drops with vsync on and tearing with it off. These effects are more noticeable with games that have a lot of fast action on screen - FPS and racing games.