Colts Next Banner: We Almost Had McDaniels

drleather2001

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I am loving the indianapolis colts fan forum thread on this... 30 pages and growing every minute. So much hate.

Here's what I don't understand. I work in finance. People get job offers and accept them only to be countered back to old place ALL THE TIME. It hardly black-balls the person going forward. Like, at all. Is this just an accepted part of finance? If Josh performs, people will look past this down the road and he would have other opportunities. Look at Parcells. Burned bridges everywhere.

That said, sometimes a faux pas may be worth it.
 
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kenneycb

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Same in consulting. Same in tech. Same in any well-compensated profession, I would hazard to guess.

What we're hearing is sour grapes, the middle school mean-girls-club atmosphere of the NFL. Just like what Freeman said in his article.
It's also a crappy comparison since the NFL is significantly more public than any other job. Company A won't know you reneged on an acceptance from Company B to stay at Company C. That is not the case with the NFL. The NFL also only has 32 teams compared to thousands of companies. There are plenty of others but those jump out immediately.
 

The Big Red Kahuna

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It's also a crappy comparison since the NFL is significantly more public than any other job. Company A won't know you reneged on an acceptance from Company B to stay at Company C. That is not the case with the NFL. The NFL also only has 32 teams compared to thousands of companies. There are plenty of others but those jump out immediately.
First point is a good one (about company A maybe, maybe not knowing)... Second one I don't really agree with. Within finance, it's a pretty small world. Certainly not thousands of high level/PM/Mgmt types of roles.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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I think Josh’s situation (should he ever look for a non-Pats head coach job) is very similar to a first round pick that has a checkered drug history in college. 31 of 32 teams might have that guy off their draft board, but it only takes one. I’m sure Josh has limited his future opportunities to a great deal, but all it takes is a guy Josh is good friends with to be in a position to choose the head coach for another team. For instance, if Nick Cesario is the GM for another team, I think he’d get that job in a minute.

It’s easy to tweet “career suicide” but the dude is 41 and his friends will be in positions of hiring power down the road.
 

pappymojo

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Given what we know about the Colts' truthishness (Andrew Luck injury history this year and in previous seasons) and their history of leaking B.S. to the press (deflategate) I don't know why anyone is letting them off the hook for saying the deal was completed before the deal was completed.

To me, they fucked up and it wouldn't surprise me at all if that factored into McDaniels' decision to stay with the Patriots.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Do you really think the Colts tried to leverage McDaniels into accepting an offer by announcing him as their coach? Come on, man. There’s no way McDaniels didn’t say, “yes I agree to these contract terms for X dollars and Y years to be the head coach of the Colts.”

He can change his mind, but let’s not pretend that the Colts were holding a gun to his head.
Yes, I think they used the announcement as leverage.

I think he had agreed to be the coach, but that they prematurely jumped the gun on the "official announcement" when they heard he was getting cold feet.
 

tims4wins

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Given what we know about the Colts' truthishness (Andrew Luck injury history this year and in previous seasons) and their history of leaking B.S. to the press (deflategate) I don't know why anyone is letting them off the hook for saying the deal was completed before the deal was completed.

To me, they fucked up and it wouldn't surprise me at all if that factored into McDaniels' decision to stay with the Patriots.
Yes, I think they used the announcement as leverage.

I think he had agreed to be the coach, but that they prematurely jumped the gun on the "official announcement" when they heard he was getting cold feet.
This is all very easy to believe
 

Average Reds

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Seems like signing day is going poorly for Michigan... wonder if Harbaugh is headed back
Michigan’s biggest need is at QB and they’ve finally got depth with Dylan McCaffrey coming off a red shirt year, Shea Patterson transferring in and Joe Milton coming on as a true Freshman.

Unless they lay an egg this year (always possible) I’ll be shocked if he goes anywhere any time soon.

(Although I will admit the thought of him going to the Colts crossed my mind this morning ... )

Edit: phone posting.
 

BaseballJones

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By my math, in those seven games spanning seven seasons, the Patriots have averaged 40.7 points against the Colts.

Not too shabby.
 

Archer1979

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I just read those Indy threads. Gold! Pure Gold!

At any rate, they keep banging the verbal agreement as a binding agreement. Wouldn't the anti-tampering rule negate any binding agreement before the Super Bowl, written or otherwise?
 

PedroKsBambino

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Yes, I think they used the announcement as leverage.

I think he had agreed to be the coach, but that they prematurely jumped the gun on the "official announcement" when they heard he was getting cold feet.
I agree---I too assess the Colts announcement as being designed to pressure him. That is not to take McDaniels off the hook at all for having second thoughts after making a verbal commitment or having his friends commit to Colts for other roles, by the way.
 

moondog80

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I’m glad he’s staying and glad the Colts are getting embarrassed. But unless there’s more to the story, isn’t the bit with the assistants a fair criticism?
 

Al Zarilla

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I’m glad he’s staying and glad the Colts are getting embarrassed. But unless there’s more to the story, isn’t the bit with the assistants a fair criticism?
Maybe. Probably. But sometimes you have to go with your gut when it says don’t go someplace that might make you miserable for the next few years, especially when the Krafts sweetened the offer a bunch (sounds like).
 

Jimbodandy

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Anyone who has held a job for any reasonable length of time knows that your employer will upgrade on or whack you if they have the option. So will your assistants, peers, and bosses.

All of this talk is nonsense. It's a dog eat dog world, and everyone knows it. McDaniels has to look out for himself and his family. Everyone else is doing the same.
 

Unin10D

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I think it's possible to be happy that the Colts got hosed and be cognizant that McDaniels did something shitty that might hurt the assistants. I don't think this reflects well on Josh, unless there is more to the Colts side of the story. But I'm still happy, because fuck the Colts
 

singaporesoxfan

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Anyone who has held a job for any reasonable length of time knows that your employer will upgrade on or whack you if they have the option. So will your assistants, peers, and bosses.

All of this talk is nonsense. It's a dog eat dog world, and everyone knows it. McDaniels has to look out for himself and his family. Everyone else is doing the same.
In that regard there are a number of players on Twitter who are saying essentially that the Colts got treated by McDaniels the way they and other NFL teams treat players, so it’s hard for them to feel sorry for the team.
 

kelpapa

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I’m glad he’s staying and glad the Colts are getting embarrassed. But unless there’s more to the story, isn’t the bit with the assistants a fair criticism?
If it's true that assistants signed contracts in Indy under the impression that McDaniels was going there, it's absolutely fair criticism.
 

tims4wins

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Reiss

Head coach Bill Belichick's willingness to take his mentorship to a higher level played a significant part in him reversing course, sources told ESPN.

Belichick told McDaniels that he would spend more time with him on the inner workings of the Patriots, including roster construction and salary-cap management, which was viewed as "extremely valuable" to McDaniels. It is an arrangement that owners Robert and Jonathan Kraft endorsed because it could ultimately be part of a succession plan for Belichick in the future, although no assurances were made to McDaniels.
 

Bunt4aTriple

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I just read those Indy threads. Gold! Pure Gold!

At any rate, they keep banging the verbal agreement as a binding agreement. Wouldn't the anti-tampering rule negate any binding agreement before the Super Bowl, written or otherwise?
Do you know anyone there IRL? I'm looking for someone to introduce me to Gramz.
 

JimD

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If he did it because of Luck's medicals, or because he the Colts may struggle on the field the next couple of seasons, that would give me pause. The Pats are not going to go to the Super Bowl every year, and Brady is eventually going to retire. He did recruit assistants, and so it's not like Isray is the only one getting the short end here. As a head coach, you cannot be afraid to take on a challenging situation that could result in failure. I don't believe this is the case, btw. Just putting it out there while we're all Gronking the football.
I would say that the job McDaniels seems to really want - the post-Belichick/post-Brady NE gig - will be an even more challenging situation than the current Colts job.
 

kelpapa

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Was it the Colts or McDaniels that gave them that impression?
That's a good point that I don't know the answer to, but I would assume the assistant coaches would confirm it with him. It's possible he told them he was considering it, and they jumped the gun, I guess.
 

Jungleland

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Reiss

Head coach Bill Belichick's willingness to take his mentorship to a higher level played a significant part in him reversing course, sources told ESPN.

Belichick told McDaniels that he would spend more time with him on the inner workings of the Patriots, including roster construction and salary-cap management, which was viewed as "extremely valuable" to McDaniels. It is an arrangement that owners Robert and Jonathan Kraft endorsed because it could ultimately be part of a succession plan for Belichick in the future, although no assurances were made to McDaniels.
This is phenomenal news, and watching that two minute Reiss clip should give a lot of relief to anyone still fearing that any combo of the Wickersham article/Butler benching/coaching exodus bodes negatively for Bill's commitment to the direction of the team. We can sweat out the next year(s) of wondering when BB officially hangs it up for good, but clearly even without a commitment to JMD that the head coaching job is his, the long term health of the team appears no less a priority to Belichick than we would have guessed a month and a half ago.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I would say that the job McDaniels seems to really want - the post-Belichick/post-Brady NE gig - will be an even more challenging situation than the current Colts job.
In what way, other than the 'Johnny from Burger King' angle? No one in that building is going to expect him to come in and replicate the success BB has had and any fan worth listening or talking to realizes that if you somehow drafted exactly TB this year and McDaniels was some kind of clone, you still wouldn't be getting this kind of run out of them. He goes elsewhere - especially with a shitshow for an owner like Irsay - he's going to be expected to install it from day one and turn a franchise around. In NE, he's got safety that he's going to have a long leash and time to rebuild. Even the idiot radio hosts and callers are going to go after him in any city for not being BB.
 

pappymojo

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In what way, other than the 'Johnny from Burger King' angle? No one in that building is going to expect him to come in and replicate the success BB has had and any fan worth listening or talking to realizes that if you somehow drafted exactly TB this year and McDaniels was some kind of clone, you still wouldn't be getting this kind of run out of them. He goes elsewhere - especially with a shitshow for an owner like Irsay - he's going to be expected to install it from day one and turn a franchise around. In NE, he's got safety that he's going to have a long leash and time to rebuild. Even the idiot radio hosts and callers are going to go after him in any city for not being BB.
Honest question: From a coach's perspective, is Isray a shitshow owner? Caldwell lasted three years and Pagano lasted six (!!!). At the very least, he seems to stick with guys even when they suck.
 

Dollar

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Reiss

Head coach Bill Belichick's willingness to take his mentorship to a higher level played a significant part in him reversing course, sources told ESPN.

Belichick told McDaniels that he would spend more time with him on the inner workings of the Patriots, including roster construction and salary-cap management, which was viewed as "extremely valuable" to McDaniels. It is an arrangement that owners Robert and Jonathan Kraft endorsed because it could ultimately be part of a succession plan for Belichick in the future, although no assurances were made to McDaniels.
For anyone who watched the "The Two Bills" 30 for 30, this sounds an awful lot like how Parcells brought Belichick into his office often during their last year with the Giants to show him the ropes when it comes to dealing with player contracts and other aspects of the job outside of the Xs and Os. BB was very emotional when talking about how much that additional mentoring helped him as a head coach, and it's pretty awesome to see BB doing the same for McDaniels.
 

dcmissle

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Reiss

Head coach Bill Belichick's willingness to take his mentorship to a higher level played a significant part in him reversing course, sources told ESPN.

Belichick told McDaniels that he would spend more time with him on the inner workings of the Patriots, including roster construction and salary-cap management, which was viewed as "extremely valuable" to McDaniels. It is an arrangement that owners Robert and Jonathan Kraft endorsed because it could ultimately be part of a succession plan for Belichick in the future, although no assurances were made to McDaniels.
In the two Bills 30-30, BB said he greatly appreciated such mentorship from Parcells, which helped him greatly as HC. Time to give back.
 

dcmissle

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Understandable in the circumstances. I'm happy where we landed but McDaniels probably compromised his agent and made him look foolish.
 

Reverend

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Reiss

Head coach Bill Belichick's willingness to take his mentorship to a higher level played a significant part in him reversing course, sources told ESPN.

Belichick told McDaniels that he would spend more time with him on the inner workings of the Patriots, including roster construction and salary-cap management, which was viewed as "extremely valuable" to McDaniels. It is an arrangement that owners Robert and Jonathan Kraft endorsed because it could ultimately be part of a succession plan for Belichick in the future, although no assurances were made to McDaniels.
Sure sounds like an internally fractured group marked by dissension to me.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Just love that this is burning everyone's butt. Like this Broncos fan, whose YT channel I'm actually a fan of:

 

pappymojo

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Understandable in the circumstances. I'm happy where we landed but McDaniels probably compromised his agent and made him look foolish.
Is this akin to buying a house and having the seller's agent also working as the buyer's agent?
 

Reverend

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If Reiss’s report is accurate, it sounds like what Kraft arranged is not the offer that cannot be refused of proverb, but something much more attractive.

I mean, does a rabbi turn down an invitation to learn about what wS actually in the temple?

I get hurt feelings, but I think anyone outraged that Joshua would turn down an opportunity like this isn’t really taking things very seriously.

I personally try to do my own darndwat never to begrudge other people opportunities like this, even when it stings a bit.

Of course—not for me! :)
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Honest question: From a coach's perspective, is Isray a shitshow owner? Caldwell lasted three years and Pagano lasted six (!!!). At the very least, he seems to stick with guys even when they suck.
I mean, I don’t know the internals or daily office workings, I generally prefer to not work for a drug addled nutbag that’s on Twitter or tmz causing me to have to answer questions about it. Your mileage may vary on that, but just because he kept guys he might not should have - and we get our fun poking at Caldwell and Pagano, but three years is pretty standard and Pagano was handcuffed by Grigson - doesn’t mean it’s a positive work environment. Some guys will put up with it because there’s only 32 of these jobs, I’m sure, but if you’re comfortable where you are and have been given the nod, why wouldn’t you stick around? By all accounts Kraft is one of the least interfering and wave causing owners there is.
 

tims4wins

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The one positive in Irsay's corner IMO is that Bill Polian was able to work there for so long. Obviously we all think Polian is a prick but I doubt he would have put up with Irsay for that long if he was constantly meddling.
 

drleather2001

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Didn’t Irsay create/allow the situation where his GM and Coach were both reporting directly to him? And they couldn’t stand each other?

At the very least, he allowed that fractured relationship to fester and ultimately doom the franchise to irrelevance despite having Luck.
 

dcmissle

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If Reiss’s report is accurate, it sounds like what Kraft arranged is not the offer that cannot be refused of proverb, but something much more attractive.

I mean, does a rabbi turn down an invitation to learn about what wS actually in the temple?

I get hurt feelings, but I think anyone outraged that Joshua would turn down an opportunity like this isn’t really taking things very seriously.

I personally try to do my own darndwat never to begrudge other people opportunities like this, even when it stings a bit.

Of course—not for me! :)
I think Kraft and McDaniels are joined at the hip barring something from left field.

From Kraft's standpoint, he could not realistically have a better successor to BB. There is a huge disincentive to taking this job one or two years from now. You never want to be the guy who follows THE GUY. Brady probably is gone by then. McDaniels understands the market. He lived the culture. He's a talented offensive mind, and the Pats will dearly need help in developing a QB,

From Josh's standpoint, I think he practically burned 31 bridges. I disagree with Schefter because of the way HC hiring works, and specifically the calendar. Owners are impatient. They are not going to wait until after the SB to make a hire for a myriad of reasons. So you have to ask yourself, what are the chances that the NEP in the next few years will make deep post-season runs? Pretty damn good, I'd say. And there is the problem -- as a practical matter, there is NFW any other owner will walk down the aisle with Josh after this Indy business. Not under current rules where binding commitments are forbidden. He did it once, he could do it again, and if he does I'm the biggest fucking fool in the Western Hemisphere -- that will be the mindset.
 

tims4wins

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Underrated piece of this all IMO: Josh and Schlupinski will be around to groom whatever QB they draft in 2018 or 2019. That QB may or may not end up being The Guy, but I'd rather have those guys grooming him than someone else trying to take over as OC / QB coach and doing the same.